California Nurses Strike Begins

[FireCloud9]

Now all I need is a PA strike and I can easily compare average wages and benefits.

California registered nurses make $88,714 a year on average, excluding benefits, up 20 percent from a decade ago, after adjusting for inflation, according to the California Employment Development Department. That's more than double the inflation-adjusted 8 percent increase in average wages for all Californians during the same period.

Sutter officials said that their Bay Area RNs earn up to $136,000, plus employer-paid benefits and pensions.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/20/3923378/thousands-of-nurses-to-strike.html

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Is there an easy way to find out what 88k would equal in my area when adjusted for cost of living?

Because down here, 88k is a lot of money and I'd be furious if our nurses went on strike for that.

 

[plauto]

How much do the residents at UCSF make? they really should be striking....when I saw their pay scale I quickly took UCSF off my residency programs list.

 

[fab4fan]

COL has to be taken into consideration. The CA nurses I've talked to say that it does not come out to a huge lifestyle in the end.

 

[fab4fan]

Now all I need is a PA strike and I can easily compare average wages and benefits.

California registered nurses make $88,714 a year on average, excluding benefits, up 20 percent from a decade ago, after adjusting for inflation, according to the California Employment Development Department. That's more than double the inflation-adjusted 8 percent increase in average wages for all Californians during the same period.

Sutter officials said that their Bay Area RNs earn up to $136,000, plus employer-paid benefits and pensions.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/20/3923378/thousands-of-nurses-to-strike.html

Is this for floor nurses only, or are they factoring in management, advanced practice nurses as well?

 

[The right Path]

Apparently this strike isn't about salaries.

"The massive one-day strike, engineered by the CNA – part of the National Nurses United superunion – and the smaller National Union of Healthcare Workers, comes as Sacramento-based Sutter Health is seeking concessions from registered nurses at its Bay Area hospitals. The concessions include sharp hikes in health premium and retirement contributions and elimination of paid sick leave and the ability to advocate for patients."​

Speaking of salaries...

"From 1999 to 2009, operating revenue at California's hospitals more than doubled, from $31.7 billion to $66.3 billion, state data show.
Hospital administrators have benefited from that increase. Sutter Health's CEO Patrick Fry, for instance, earned about $4 million during 2009, including deferred compensation, tax data show.
And in 2010, Sutter Health saw total income grow to $878 million, compared with $677 million in 2009. The health network posted revenue of $9.1 billion in 2010, compared with $8.5 billion in 2009."​

I'd be annoyed, too, if my insurance premiums were jacked up to compensate for the potential threat of reductions of profit (due to many factors that don't include increased consumption of health care services on my part). Oh wait, that's already happened.

And if anyone wants to complain about my salary- please, come spend a day at work with me and then tell me that I haven't earned it.

For the record, I do not, nor have I ever been a member of a union. And I do not condone nurses going on strike.

​

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

Nice, here I was just happy to have a job, never mind making 20 bones an hour.

 

[deleted87716]

Apparently this strike isn't about salaries.

"The massive one-day strike, engineered by the CNA – part of the National Nurses United superunion – and the smaller National Union of Healthcare Workers, comes as Sacramento-based Sutter Health is seeking concessions from registered nurses at its Bay Area hospitals. The concessions include sharp hikes in health premium and retirement contributions and elimination of paid sick leave and the ability to advocate for patients."​

Can somebody explain how it's possible to eliminate a nurse's ability to advocate for patients...?

 

[RDlv]

Can somebody explain how it's possible to eliminate a nurse's ability to advocate for patients...?

My gold chains and big rims are fundamental to my abilities as a patient advocate.

I.e. if you want me to care enough to care, better break off that $$$$, yo.

 

[The right Path]

Can somebody explain how it's possible to eliminate a nurse's ability to advocate for patients...?

Yeah, that's really weird and vague. I'm sure that's more clearly defined somewhere, maybe on the union's website. Am I gonna take the time to check it out? Nawwww.

 

[The right Path]

Nice, here I was just happy to have a job, never mind making 20 bones an hour.

You see that's the thing about health care organizations. They can count on there being enough warm bodies that are just happy enough to have a job. They can sell out to the lowest bidder (even if the quality is subpar).

*Not saying that applies to you, personally.*

And while my salary is just fine, thankyouverymuch, it's true I could likely earn more working for Sutter, Kaiser, Tennet, etc., and well, the truth is- I'm just too snobby for that.

Just kidding.

Sort of.

 

[hematosis]

Now all I need is a PA strike and I can easily compare average wages and benefits.

California registered nurses make $88,714 a year on average, excluding benefits, up 20 percent from a decade ago, after adjusting for inflation, according to the California Employment Development Department. That's more than double the inflation-adjusted 8 percent increase in average wages for all Californians during the same period.

Sutter officials said that their Bay Area RNs earn up to $136,000, plus employer-paid benefits and pensions.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/20/3923378/thousands-of-nurses-to-strike.html

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but how is it that some of these nurses earn up to 136k when some PCP only make 150?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

COL has to be taken into consideration. The CA nurses I've talked to say that it does not come out to a huge lifestyle in the end.

That's a fair point, but that salary in SF is 4.5X what nurses around here make. Is the COL that much worse out there?

 

[chimichanga]

...Sutter officials said that their Bay Area RNs earn up to $136,000, plus employer-paid benefits and pensions.

...but that salary in SF is 4.5X what nurses around here make

They make 30,000 per year where you are?

The last time I made that (in nursing) was 1996.

Average new grad starting salary (in AZ) is around 55,000.

 

[FireCloud9]

I noticed this comes as somewhat of a shock to some of you.

This has been my point in the months I've been debating RN, PA, NP roles in Northern California.

That's a fair point, but that salary in SF is 4.5X what nurses around here make. Is the COL that much worse out there?

It's bad, but no. It's not. There are employer differentials between Sacramento and SF/Bay area, but when you calculate it out with COLA the math doesn't add up to justify those salaries (or the salaries here compared to other parts of the country).

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but how is it that some of these nurses earn up to 136k when some PCP only make 150?

Welcome to California. PCPs around here make around 150, though some nurses can make just as much, with OT, more.

Is this for floor nurses only, or are they factoring in management, advanced practice nurses as well?

I don't know. The article didn't state it, though from the nurses we know, I doubt it. CRNAs around here make over 150k, many make 200+, NPs w/experience run between 125-150k, so the article may have some overlap there.

Recent RN grads have told us that their starting salaries run into the high 60s and with OT they're making between 80-100.

PAs on the other hand start in the 80s, but work long hours (around 12hrs / day - no OT), since it takes 1,000hrs xp + 2 yrs to do a PA program, and 0hrs xp + 14 months for a BSN RN program, at least in this region, many people are opting for the RN path.

And here's the kicker, unlike RN that have specific patient ratios, PAs don't seem to have such ratios, so they work a lot harder and longer hours for less money.

What I often hear from others is that PAs (and NPs) like doctors, are ultimately responsible, and many people don't want that responsibility so they opt for the BSN RN path which allows them to make just as much money (w/OT) working the same hours as PAs (or NPs) without the responsibility.

Personally, from what little I have gathered over these past couple of years, the PA profession still looks more interesting and mentally stimulating to me. Unfortunately, unlike the RN path it seems to require that one go broke first (similar, but not as bad as a doctor's path).

Interestingly, PA seems to be the only path that requires experience up front.

The MD path one goes from college to an MD program and receives the clinical experience along the way and the RN path one goes from college (or during college) into an RN program and receives clinical exposure.

The advice used to be, go to nursing school so you can find yourself a $doctor$ to marry, now it's go to medical school so you can find yourself a $nurse$ to marry. Ah the power of the nurses union in California.

 

[sanityonleave]

Just another reasons unions are on the way out in this country -- because instead of truly looking out for their workers, they just look out for their (and by association, their workers') pocketbooks.

Let me guess, union nurses in CA can also only be hired/fired based on seniority (LIFO) instead of productivity as well?

I'll add this to my never-ending list of reasons not to live in California.

 

[fab4fan]

Can somebody explain how it's possible to eliminate a nurse's ability to advocate for patients...?

Not surprising a physician wouldn't understand this. Administration doesn't retaliate against physicians like they do nurses.

 

[fab4fan]

I noticed this comes as somewhat of a shock to some of you.

This has been my point in the months I've been debating RN, PA, NP roles in Northern California.



It's bad, but no. It's not. There are employer differentials between Sacramento and SF/Bay area, but when you calculate it out with COLA the math doesn't add up to justify those salaries (or the salaries here compared to other parts of the country).



Welcome to California. PCPs around here make around 150, though some nurses can make just as much, with OT, more.



I don't know. The article didn't state it, though from the nurses we know, I doubt it. CRNAs around here make over 150k, many make 200+, NPs w/experience run between 125-150k, so the article may have some overlap there.

Recent RN grads have told us that their starting salaries run into the high 60s and with OT they're making between 80-100.

PAs on the other hand start in the 80s, but work long hours (around 12hrs / day - no OT), since it takes 1,000hrs xp + 2 yrs to do a PA program, and 0hrs xp + 14 months for a BSN RN program, at least in this region, many people are opting for the RN path.

And here's the kicker, unlike RN that have specific patient ratios, PAs don't seem to have such ratios, so they work a lot harder and longer hours for less money.

What I often hear from others is that PAs (and NPs) like doctors, are ultimately responsible, and many people don't want that responsibility so they opt for the BSN RN path which allows them to make just as much money (w/OT) working the same hours as PAs (or NPs) without the responsibility.

Personally, from what little I have gathered over these past couple of years, the PA profession still looks more interesting and mentally stimulating to me. Unfortunately, unlike the RN path it seems to require that one go broke first (similar, but not as bad as a doctor's path).

Interestingly, PA seems to be the only path that requires experience up front.

The MD path one goes from college to an MD program and receives the clinical experience along the way and the RN path one goes from college (or during college) into an RN program and receives clinical exposure.

The advice used to be, go to nursing school so you can find yourself a $doctor$ to marry, now it's go to medical school so you can find yourself a $nurse$ to marry. Ah the power of the nurses union in California.

Maybe you should read about why the nurses are striking. It might serve you well to research more about the wage issue. I guess it's just easier to throw something and see if it sticks to the wall.

 

[fab4fan]

That's a fair point, but that salary in SF is 4.5X what nurses around here make. Is the COL that much worse out there?

From the CA nurses I've heard from, yes it is.

 

[deleted87716]

Not surprising a physician wouldn't understand this. Administration doesn't retaliate against physicians like they do nurses.

That isn't even the point. They (the nurses) claim that administration wants to eliminate their ability to advocate for patients. I'd like to know the legal mechanism that would enable them to do that.

 

[The right Path]

Sutter is fighting back.

They put out a 3/4 page advertisement out in my local paper this morning calling out the striking nurses.

Lovely.

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

You see that's the thing about health care organizations. They can count on there being enough warm bodies that are just happy enough to have a job. They can sell out to the lowest bidder (even if the quality is subpar).

*Not saying that applies to you, personally.*

And while my salary is just fine, thankyouverymuch, it's true I could likely earn more working for Sutter, Kaiser, Tennet, etc., and well, the truth is- I'm just too snobby for that.

Just kidding.

Sort of.

I'm treated well, the working conditions are generally good and I'm paying my bills, so it's not all that bad.

 

[fab4fan]

That isn't even the point. They (the nurses) claim that administration wants to eliminate their ability to advocate for patients. I'd like to know the legal mechanism that would enable them to do that.

Finding ways to terminate "troublemakers" (advocates) for one.

 

[fab4fan]

Sutter is fighting back.

They put out a 3/4 page advertisement out in my local paper this morning calling out the striking nurses.

Lovely.

Wonder how much they're shelling out for the scabs?

 

[DrBowtie]

Wonder how much they're shelling out for the scabs?

Probably less than it would cost them to shut down and transfer all of the patients.

 

[deleted87716]

Finding ways to terminate "troublemakers" (advocates) for one.

But, they could do that any time. What's it got to do with their contract?

 

[deleted6669]

PAs on the other hand start in the 80s, but work long hours (around 12hrs / day - no OT), since it takes 1,000hrs xp + 2 yrs to do a PA program, and 0hrs xp + 14 months for a BSN RN program, at least in this region, many people are opting for the RN path.

And here's the kicker, unlike RN that have specific patient ratios, PAs don't seem to have such ratios, so they work a lot harder and longer hours for less money.

What I often hear from others is that PAs (and NPs) like doctors, are ultimately responsible, and many people don't want that responsibility so they opt for the BSN RN path which allows them to make just as much money (w/OT) working the same hours as PAs (or NPs) without the responsibility.

Personally, from what little I have gathered over these past couple of years, the PA profession still looks more interesting and mentally stimulating to me. Unfortunately, unlike the RN path it seems to require that one go broke first (similar, but not as bad as a doctor's path).

Interestingly, PA seems to be the only path that requires experience up front.

)

FWIW when positions are posted(granted rarely, as no one leaves these jobs) in the bay area for EXPERIENCED specialty pa's the salaries often START at 100-150k/yr with full benefits.

 

[The right Path]

FWIW when positions are posted(granted rarely, as no one leaves these jobs) in the bay area for EXPERIENCED specialty pa's the salaries often START at 100-150k/yr with full benefits.

Also FWIW (in response to FireCloud9), the role of the RN has responsibility aplenty. Many (but certainly not all) work 12 h shifts as well. The workflow and load of a PA vs. RN are two entirely different things.

I don't know of any RN that thought, "Hmmmmm, what kind of work would pay decently but that requires little educational expense and responsibility.... Oh, I know, I think I'll become a nurse!" Those that are basing their decisions on this misguided line of thinking are likely the ones that represent the high nurse attrition rate.

It seems to me, (IMHO), that people that align their career with their actual interests and talents end up the most satisfied.

 

[The right Path]

I'm treated well, the working conditions are generally good and I'm paying my bills, so it's not all that bad.

Good to hear. Me, too. That's why after 7 years, I'm still working in the same place. Although, yes, I am pursuing other career goals- it's a personal choice, not to reflect negatively on my current occupation/institution.

I would take offense and consider somewhere else to work if "Joe Mama Hospital" (my employer) took out nearly a full page add to talk **** about their nurses and cite dubious stats.

 

[fab4fan]

Good to hear. Me, too. That's why after 7 years, I'm still working in the same place. Although, yes, I am pursuing other career goals- it's a personal choice, not to reflect negatively on my current occupation/institution.

I would take offense and consider somewhere else to work if "Joe Mama Hospital" (my employer) took out nearly a full page add to talk **** about their nurses and cite dubious stats.

+1

I have to say that my employer has been very good to me over the last several months as I deal with a serious illness. They've been very accommodating and supportive.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Also FWIW (in response to FireCloud9), the role of the RN has responsibility aplenty. Many (but certainly not all) work 12 h shifts as well. The workflow and load of a PA vs. RN are two entirely different things.

Working 3 12s is not the same as working 5 or 6 per week

 

[The right Path]

Working 3 12s is not the same as working 5 or 6 per week

Please.... I never said it is.

PAs on the other hand start in the 80s, but work long hours (around 12hrs / day - no OT),

This is part of the quote I was referencing. And going from the small sample of PAs that I know, the work schedule ranges from 3-5 days/week. Those that choose to, or for some reason have to work 6 days/week, 4 weeks/month, 12/months per year- well yes, that would be much more grueling than the typical RN work schedule.

 

[drift]

This is part of the quote I was referencing. And going from the small sample of PAs that I know, the work schedule ranges from 3-5 days/week. Those that choose to, or for some reason have to work 6 days/week, 4 weeks/month, 12/months per year- well yes, that would be much more grueling than the typical RN work schedule.

I can tell you that no PA working 5-6 days a week working 12hr shifts would "start in the 80's". Sounds about right for 3 12's tho.

 

[The right Path]

I can tell you that no PA working 5-6 days a week working 12hr shifts would "start in the 80's". Sounds about right for 3 12's tho.

Definitely not in my area.

 

[fab4fan]

Working 3 12s is not the same as working 5 or 6 per week

Then PAs should advocate for better hours for themselves. The topic is the CA nurses' strike, not what's wrong with PA hours.

Not every nurse just works 3 12h shifts. I don't know why you guys get so hung up on that. I haven't done 3 12s since the early 2000s.

 

[The right Path]

The plot thickens...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_18972638?source%3Dmost_viewed.20F88DA3D7D369F5BB70F372987EAE1F.html

I swear, hospital politics are so disgusting.

 

[zenman]

Is there an easy way to find out what 88k would equal in my area when adjusted for cost of living?

Because down here, 88k is a lot of money and I'd be furious if our nurses went on strike for that.

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html

 

[fab4fan]

The plot thickens...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_18972638?source%3Dmost_viewed.20F88DA3D7D369F5BB70F372987EAE1F.html

I swear, hospital politics are so disgusting.

Interesting how fast the hosp. was willing to throw the nurse under the bus. So much for doing an investigation.

 

[The right Path]

Interesting how fast the hosp. was willing to throw the nurse under the bus. So much for doing an investigation.

I must have missed something. I didn't catch any of the details of the circumstances that led to the error nor any of the details of the investigation.

 

[fab4fan]

I must have missed something. I didn't catch any of the details of the circumstances that led to the error nor any of the details of the investigation.

Other sources go into detail about what happened. The investigation hasn't been concluded yet.

 

[The right Path]

An article in the paper today said the error was administering Glucerna through the IV .

WTF? Seriously???

Was that "nurse" really even a nurse?

I've heard/read stories of that happening, but couldn't really wrap my head around how such a thing could really happen in real life.

 

[domineus]

An article in the paper today said the error was administering Glucerna through the IV .

WTF? Seriously???

Was that "nurse" really even a nurse?

I've heard/read stories of that happening, but couldn't really wrap my head around how such a thing could really happen in real life.

you're...joking. I'm sorry but if this wasn't so tragic, it just reminds me of something you'd see on the Simpsons

Are they sure this wasn't a really REALLY new nursing student?

 

[core0]

you're...joking. I'm sorry but if this wasn't so tragic, it just reminds me of something you'd see on the Simpsons

Are they sure this wasn't a really REALLY new nursing student?

Used to happen all the time. In the mid 90's someone got the bright idea to get rid of feeding pumps and using multichannel IV pumps for tube feeds. I know that the hospital I worked in had at least two patients deaths from Jevity IV boluses before the powers that be figured out this was a bad idea.

 

[The right Path]

Used to happen all the time. In the mid 90's someone got the bright idea to get rid of feeding pumps and using multichannel IV pumps for tube feeds. I know that the hospital I worked in had at least two patients deaths from Jevity IV boluses before the powers that be figured out this was a bad idea.

Yes, but still even then you'd have to wonder if the nurse hooking up the enteral feeding tube to the IV adaptor is blind and/or stupid.

And nowadays with completely different tubing and pumps and incompatible connections... well, it seems like you'd have to really work hard to make that kind of f*ckup even work.

So I'm still scratchin' my head.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html

Thanks, that's a neat calculator.


Using it, I've found that the SF nurses making $136,000 would be making $76,000 in my area. That seems a bit much.

 

[NoRNshortage]

Thanks, that's a neat calculator.


Using it, I've found that the SF nurses making $136,000 would be making $76,000 in my area. That seems a bit much.

That's how much I got as well from the link you provided. And they get paid sick leave as well? That's some swanky compensation. Sounds like if you are a husband and wife RN team you could be living it up in Cali. Time to go back to Cali, to Cali, to Cali... as per the rap song.

 

[jwk]

An article in the paper today said the error was administering Glucerna through the IV .

WTF? Seriously???

Was that "nurse" really even a nurse?

I've heard/read stories of that happening, but couldn't really wrap my head around how such a thing could really happen in real life.

You must not have been in healthcare very long. The really bad mistakes that even intelligent experienced nurses make (and physicians and other healthcare professionals) are mind boggling.

 

[The right Path]

You must not have been in healthcare very long. The really bad mistakes that even intelligent experienced nurses make (and physicians and other healthcare professionals) are mind boggling.

Seven years, and still nothing that comes close to being as mind boggling as TF in the IV. Though of course we all have our favorite stories.

 

[fab4fan]

Yes, but still even then you'd have to wonder if the nurse hooking up the enteral feeding tube to the IV adaptor is blind and/or stupid.

And nowadays with completely different tubing and pumps and incompatible connections... well, it seems like you'd have to really work hard to make that kind of f*ckup even work.

So I'm still scratchin' my head.

This was a 23y old nurse working for a travel agency. New nurses have no business being travelers.

I have a really hard time figuring out how this transpired. I hang chemo all the time, so I know the process quite well. What did she document for blood return prior to connecting what she thought was the chemo? Did she even check at all? Who co-signed her when she hung the "chemo"? Let me guess: that facility doesn't require a 2 RN sign-off for hanging chemo.

It beggars the imagination.

 

[fab4fan]

That's how much I got as well from the link you provided. And they get paid sick leave as well? That's some swanky compensation. Sounds like if you are a husband and wife RN team you could be living it up in Cali. Time to go back to Cali, to Cali, to Cali... as per the rap song.

The hosp. was attempting to take away sick time, increase health care contributions, among other things.

As far as taking sick time, I know you're not a nurse, otherwise you'd know taking sick time is almost a capital offense, depending on where you work.