Call all pharmacists, urgent action needed!

[sadcat]

Call all pharmacists, urgent action needed!
Hi fellow pharmacists,

NABP will meet and discuss about TOEFL iBT requirement on October 28-29. Please check the September newsletter, http://www.nabp.net/ftpfiles/newslet...nabp092008.pdf, page 149-150.

Please help the group to communicate to NABP by sending the letter:

http://www.urch.com/forums/pharmacy-...ask-force.html (Final version - Petition to NABP -Task Force)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sadcat]

Please forward this information to as much pharmacists as you can because we should ask and need to ask NABP to lower their unfair TOEFLibt requirements or give us alternatives. Time is very short so lets act quickly!!!

 

[rxforlife2004]

are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.

"The United States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

 

[sadcat]

Its up to you nobody is forcing you to do this. I think you are a studying here in The United States. Currently there are many foreign pharmacist are working here with the native pharmacist. I want to point out one more thing that according to ETS own survey a native American got 22/30 in speaking section of Toefl ibt and NABP is asking for 26/30. Most of the foreign pharmacist are getting 24 which is even higher than natives. Nabp allow to take FPGEE after very strict evaluation of foreign pharmacist credentials therefore it is not true that they are behind in their professional abilities.

 

[sosokk]

are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.

"The United States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

I agree with u 100%!!

 

[sadcat]

" Are you going to think about yourself, patients, or your profession? All lives are at stake. Media bombards about medication errors.

Check this out:

http://www.napnet.us/files/Pittman%2011-3-07.ppt#331,1

Do you prefer to dispense 2.5 seconds per prescription?

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com...ID=1&sk=&date=

Do your prefer "green light, red light? go go go.. faster faster..." Do you think about your profession or yourself?

And these are more than 100 articles pointing out the crisis..

It is up to you. You pay $150,000 for your tutition, some of us are paying $100,000 for ETS that we are not supposed to pay. "

 

[magdos2005]

There is a huge shortage of pharmacists. US labor department.Job Outlook [] Employment is expected to increase much faster than the average through 2016. As a result of rapid growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupation, job prospects should be excellent.
Employment change. Employment of pharmacists is expected to grow by 22 percent between 2006 and 2016, which is much faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing numbers of middle-aged and elderly people—who use more prescription drugs than younger people—will continue to spur demand for pharmacists throughout the projection period. Other factors likely to increase the demand for pharmacists include scientific advances that will make more drug products available and the coverage of prescription drugs by a greater number of health insurance plans and Medicare.
As the use of prescription drugs increases, demand for pharmacists will grow in most practice settings, such as community pharmacies, hospital pharmacies, and mail-order pharmacies. As the population ages, assisted living facilities and home care organizations should see particularly rapid growth. Demand will also increase as cost conscious insurers, in an attempt to improve preventative care, use pharmacists in areas such as patient education and vaccination administration.
Demand is also increasing in managed care organizations where pharmacists analyze trends and patterns in medication use, and in pharmacoeconomics—the cost and benefit analysis of different drug therapies. New jobs also are being created in disease management—the development of new methods for curing and controlling diseases—and in sales and marketing. Rapid growth is also expected in pharmacy informatics—the use of information technology to improve patient care.
Job prospects. Excellent opportunities are expected for pharmacists over the 2006 to 2016 period. Job openings will result from rapid employment growth, and from the need to replace workers who retire or leave the occupation for other reasons.


Projections Data [About this section] Back to Top Projections data from the National Employment Matrix Occupational title SOC Code Employment, 2006 Projected
employment,
2016 Change, 2006-16 Detailed statistics Number Percent Pharmacists
29-1051 243,000 296,000 53,000 22 PDF zipped XLS NOTE: Data in this table are rounded. See the discussion of the employment projections table in the Handbook introductory chapter on Occupational Information Included in the Handbook.




Earnings [About this section] Back to Top Median annual of wage-and-salary pharmacists in May 2006 were $94,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $83,180 and $108,140 a year. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $67,860, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $119,480 a year. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of pharmacists in May 2006 were:

Department stores $99,050 Grocery stores 95,600 Pharmacies and drug stores 94,640 General medical and surgical hospitals 93,640​

According to a 2006 survey by Drug Topics Magazine, pharmacists in retail settings earned an average of $92,291 per year, while pharmacists in institutional settings earned an average of $97,545. Full-time pharmacists earned an average of $102,336, while part-time pharmacists earned an average of $55,589.

For the latest wage information: The above wage data are from the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey program, unless otherwise noted. For the latest National, State, and local earnings data, visit the following pages:
Pharmacists


Related Occupations [About this section] Back to Top Pharmacy technicians and pharmacy aides also work in pharmacies. Persons in other professions who may work with pharmaceutical compounds include biological scientists, medical scientists, and chemists and materials scientists. Increasingly, pharmacists are involved in patient care and therapy, work that they have in common with physicians and surgeons.


Sources of Additional Information [About this section] Back to Top
Disclaimer: Links to non-BLS Internet sites are provided for your convenience and do not constitute an endorsement.


For information on pharmacy as a career, preprofessional and professional requirements, programs offered by colleges of pharmacy, and student financial aid, contact:

• American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy, 1426 Prince St., Alexandria, VA 22314. Internet: AACP

General information on careers in pharmacy is available from:

• American Society of Health-System Pharmacists, 7272 Wisconsin Ave., Bethesda, MD 20814. Internet: American Society of Health System Pharmacists
• National Association of Chain Drug Stores, 413 N. Lee St., P.O. Box 1417-D49, Alexandria, VA 22313-1480. Internet: National Association of Chain Drug Stores
• Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy, 100 North Pitt St., Suite 400, Alexandria, VA 22314. Internet: Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy - AMCP.org
• American Pharmacists Association, 1100 15th Street, N.W. Suite 400., Washington, DC 20005. Internet: Pharmacist.com | Your Access to the World of Pharmacy and home of the American Pharmacists Association APhA

Information on the North American Pharmacist Licensure Exam (NAPLEX) and the Multistate Pharmacy Jurisprudence Exam (MPJE) is available from:

• National Association of Boards of Pharmacy, 1600 Feehanville Dr., Mount Prospect, IL 60056. Internet: NABP <> National Association of Boards of Pharmacy

 

[emac4rx]

are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.

"The United States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

Where did you get your arrogant ideas? For your information in my country we have to go through 3 years of pre-school and 5!!!!! years of Pharmacy School (8 years in total!!!). In adition to that we have to sit for a 300 questions Equivalency Exam (FPGEE) to prove our Degree in this country. Then we have to pass TOEFL iBT with the highest standars within US. You have multiple choice kind of questions in your exams, I have "Explain your answer" kind of questions in which you really need to know the answer and say why you think it is the correct answer, no room for guessing. That's just to mention some differences. So, please next time you want to post comments like the above keep it for your arrogant mind. You are damaging the prestige of many good american pharmacists that I know that would be very disappointed with comments like this.
I can see a lot of envy in your comments, if money is what bothers you blame your Educational System and not us. We do not want your job, we just want the opportunity to cover your needs, if you do not need us is OK do not hire us. A certification process is just that, certification is all that we ask, to prove our knowledge in whatever country that our service is needed. Certification does not mean that we are automatically hired, in fact most of the foreign pharmacist come to this country under a working visa, if the Company not longer needs them they have to go back to their countries. Certification is Education Degree and Education is a human right, the hiring is just Marketing.
you can sleep, your job is very secure.

 

[PCM]

"are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.
Why Buddy are you afraid of competition or are you afraid you are not smart enough
to face the tough technical sound co worker around you, Who will out perform you.

States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

Yes, you are right they are not trained in the way in the way US School train, 100%
In fact the Pharmacist from other countries are trained in more Universal Way, we study from all Pharmacopeias, BP,EU of course all American standard. We do have 4year curriculum, we learn from scratch of a drug. These curriculums in most nations are tailored by WHO standard. Bottom line we are of Universal standard can fit it to any position. In US foreign PHARMACIST, pass FPGEE, NAPLEX,MPJE, before becoming a Pharmacist, if you don’t know, these are standard which are tough and meet the highest standard. Please take the number of Physician, Nurse, Pharmacist and other support who is a living example, please see the statistic of there performance.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

You don’t represent the spirit of the United States, a country which has been welcoming all nationality and culture. Why do they give citizenship to people born here irrespective of there parents nationality.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

You support or not, of course you don’t have to be afraid of getting a job any where in the US, if you have good record, If you have poor record even if you are Pharmacist you will be out of job. Hope this make sense.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Nobody is afraid of competition. However when companies are hiring you guys because you are are willing to work cheaper, that does nothing for healthcare. It is a fact that a lot of foreign pharmacists go to cheaper schools, or sometimes even for free. We graduate with an average of $150,000 in student loans. That is nothing compared to somebody who has 0 student debt. In fact it can be argued that you guys are endangering the public by 1. Leaving a country where public education from that country is cheap or free because the country expects you to stay and improve the healthcare there, and 2. by working for cheaper wages, we got to put in more hours to compete with you guys to repay the student loans and hence making more mistakes.

I have worked with several foreign graduates from different parts of the world and they are by no mean at the levels of even a first year pharmacy student. I am going to even make it a statement; unless you are from England, NZ, or a similar country, you guys are NOT qualified. Pharmacy is practiced differently in the US compared to a lot of the countries out there. Pharmacy practice has nothing to do with Pharmacopeias. You guys probably have ZERO clinical hours among other things.

I agree with rx04. There is NO SHORTAGE of pharmacists. I have read the bull**** about how shortage of pharmacist = danger to healthcare = let foreign pharamcists work. What a complete lie to get people to support you.

 

[kbv]

Please forward this information to as much pharmacists as you can because we should ask and need to ask NABP to lower their unfair TOEFLibt requirements or give us alternatives. Time is very short so lets act quickly!!!

I wish all foreign pharmacists would be required study all over again if they want to practice in the US, just like dentists do.

The US pharmacist license is not the same as a foreign pharmacist license. They are not interchangeable.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Just to make a point; sadcat and PCM's grammar are worser than mines and it should be no surprise why they are making this a point.

Magdo, there is no HUGE shortage of pharmacist. Any good pharmacist should have a good foundation in statistics. The huge shortage of pharmacist comes from suburban areas/rural. In urban centers, the market is saturated. Heck, a job might not even be guaranteed if you are not willing to relocate.

The point is simple. . . foreign pharmacists might be qualified for retail work but a pharmacist in the US (at least recently licensed) should be able to work in any pharmacy position. I just cannot see a foreign pharmacist practicing in a poison control center or in the ICU/ER.

I hope they raise the standard. The standard is a barrier and any pharmacist who cannot pass it should not be allowed to practice here. Simple as that, it has nothing do with with being fair or not fair. Is it fair we have to be 150k in debt when we come out? Is it fair people have to pay tariffs if they do business here? Barriers are put into place to level the playing field for American pharmacists. If you can reach over this barrier then congratulations and welcome to our profession practiced in the US.

On the side note, no American pharmacists would complain if they make the standards harder for us. It is something they taught to us in school. Just deal with whatever bull**** they give you. Its not like they are making it impossible for you to practice.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I wish all foreign pharmacists would be required study all over again if they want to practice in the US, just like dentists do.

The US pharmacist license is not the same as a foreign pharmacist license. They are not interchangeable.

 

[kbv]

are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.

"The United States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

why I always agree with you, I wonder?

 

[kbv]

Its up to you nobody is forcing you to do this. I think you are a studying here in The United States. Currently there are many foreign pharmacist are working here with the native pharmacist. I want to point out one more thing that according to ETS own survey a native American got 22/30 in speaking section of Toefl ibt and NABP is asking for 26/30. Most of the foreign pharmacist are getting 24 which is even higher than natives. Nabp allow to take FPGEE after very strict evaluation of foreign pharmacist credentials therefore it is not true that they are behind in their professional abilities.

Please don't sound so offensive. It's you who started this thread, even asked us to participate in. Thus, if it doesn't work the way you want it to, please don't play the blame-game here.

It doesn't matter who or what ETS and/or FPGEE are and/or do because they are not our concern. I don't really care if the score is raised to 1,000. I only care about the future of the current pharmacy students enrolled in the US pharmacy schools and of those pre-pharms who desire to get accepted into those US pharmacy schools. My heart is for them.

 

[qtrxist]

 

[sadcat]

Just to make a point; sadcat and PCM's grammar are worst than mines and it should be no surprise why they are making this a point.

Magdo, there is no HUGE shortage of pharmacist. Any good pharmacist should have a good foundation in statistics. The huge shortage of pharmacist comes from suburban areas/rural. In urban centers, the market is saturated. Heck, a job might not even be guaranteed if you are not willing to relocate.

The point is simple. . . foreign pharmacists might be qualified for retail work but a pharmacist in the US (at least recently licensed) should be able to work in any pharmacy position. I just cannot see a foreign pharmacist practicing in a poison control center or in the ICU/ER.

I hope they raise the standard. The standard is a barrier and any pharmacist who cannot pass it should not be allowed to practice here. Simple as that, it has nothing do with with being fair or not fair. Is it fair we have to be 150k in debt when we come out? Is it fair people have to pay tariffs if they do business here? Barriers are put into place to level the playing field for American pharmacists. If you can reach over this barrier then congratulations and welcome to our profession practiced in the US.

On the side note, no American pharmacists would complain if they make the standards harder for us. It is something they taught to us in school. Just deal with whatever bull**** they give you. Its not like they are making it impossible for you to practice.

Now I can see why you guys have less average points in Toefl than foreigners.

 

[kbv]

" Are you going to think about yourself, patients, or your profession? All lives are at stake. Media bombards about medication errors.

Check this out:

http://www.napnet.us/files/Pittman%2011-3-07.ppt#331,1

Do you prefer to dispense 2.5 seconds per prescription?

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com...ID=1&sk=&date=

Do your prefer "green light, red light? go go go.. faster faster..." Do you think about your profession or yourself?

And these are more than 100 articles pointing out the crisis..

It is up to you. You pay $150,000 for your tutition, some of us are paying $100,000 for ETS that we are not supposed to pay. "

I take it that you implied us being selfish right? Ok. If being selfish means I can protect my income, thus my family, means I can protect my patients, by making sure they receive formal and certified professional care from their own US pharmacists, and means I can protect my profession, by making sure demand is always higher than supply, yes I choose being selfish, and very proud of it.

You choose to pay that $100,000. And one more thing: no free meals!

 

[kbv]

There is a huge shortage of pharmacists. US labor department.Job Outlook [] Employment is expected to increase much faster than the average through 2016. As a result of rapid growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupation, job prospects should be excellent.
Employment change. Employment of pharmacists is expected to grow by 22 percent between 2006 and 2016, which is much faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing numbers of middle-aged and elderly people—who use more prescription drugs than younger people—will continue to spur demand for pharmacists throughout the projection period. Other factors likely to increase the demand for pharmacists include scientific advances that will make more drug products available and the coverage of prescription drugs by a greater number of health insurance plans and Medicare.
As the use of prescription drugs increases, demand for pharmacists will grow in most practice settings, such as community pharmacies, hospital pharmacies, and mail-order pharmacies. As the population ages, assisted living facilities and home care organizations should see particularly rapid growth. Demand will also increase as cost conscious insurers, in an attempt to improve preventative care, use pharmacists in areas such as patient education and vaccination administration.
Demand is also increasing in managed care organizations where pharmacists analyze trends and patterns in medication use, and in pharmacoeconomics—the cost and benefit analysis of different drug therapies. New jobs also are being created in disease management—the development of new methods for curing and controlling diseases—and in sales and marketing. Rapid growth is also expected in pharmacy informatics—the use of information technology to improve patient care.
Job prospects. Excellent opportunities are expected for pharmacists over the 2006 to 2016 period. Job openings will result from rapid employment growth, and from the need to replace workers who retire or leave the occupation for other reasons.


Projections Data [About this section] Back to Top Projections data from the National Employment Matrix Occupational title SOC Code Employment, 2006 Projected
employment,
2016 Change, 2006-16 Detailed statistics Number Percent Pharmacists
29-1051 243,000 296,000 53,000 22 PDF zipped XLS NOTE: Data in this table are rounded. See the discussion of the employment projections table in the Handbook introductory chapter on Occupational Information Included in the Handbook.




Earnings [About this section] Back to Top Median annual of wage-and-salary pharmacists in May 2006 were $94,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $83,180 and $108,140 a year. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $67,860, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $119,480 a year. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of pharmacists in May 2006 were:

Department stores $99,050 Grocery stores 95,600 Pharmacies and drug stores 94,640 General medical and surgical hospitals 93,640​

According to a 2006 survey by Drug Topics Magazine, pharmacists in retail settings earned an average of $92,291 per year, while pharmacists in institutional settings earned an average of $97,545. Full-time pharmacists earned an average of $102,336, while part-time pharmacists earned an average of $55,589.

For the latest wage information: The above wage data are from the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey program, unless otherwise noted. For the latest National, State, and local earnings data, visit the following pages:
Pharmacists


Related Occupations [About this section] Back to Top Pharmacy technicians and pharmacy aides also work in pharmacies. Persons in other professions who may work with pharmaceutical compounds include biological scientists, medical scientists, and chemists and materials scientists. Increasingly, pharmacists are involved in patient care and therapy, work that they have in common with physicians and surgeons.


Sources of Additional Information [About this section] Back to Top
Disclaimer: Links to non-BLS Internet sites are provided for your convenience and do not constitute an endorsement.



For information on pharmacy as a career, preprofessional and professional requirements, programs offered by colleges of pharmacy, and student financial aid, contact:

• American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy, 1426 Prince St., Alexandria, VA 22314. Internet: AACP

General information on careers in pharmacy is available from:

• American Society of Health-System Pharmacists, 7272 Wisconsin Ave., Bethesda, MD 20814. Internet: American Society of Health System Pharmacists
• National Association of Chain Drug Stores, 413 N. Lee St., P.O. Box 1417-D49, Alexandria, VA 22313-1480. Internet: National Association of Chain Drug Stores
• Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy, 100 North Pitt St., Suite 400, Alexandria, VA 22314. Internet: Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy - AMCP.org
• American Pharmacists Association, 1100 15th Street, N.W. Suite 400., Washington, DC 20005. Internet: Pharmacist.com | Your Access to the World of Pharmacy and home of the American Pharmacists Association APhA

Information on the North American Pharmacist Licensure Exam (NAPLEX) and the Multistate Pharmacy Jurisprudence Exam (MPJE) is available from:

• National Association of Boards of Pharmacy, 1600 Feehanville Dr., Mount Prospect, IL 60056. Internet: NABP <> National Association of Boards of Pharmacy

Please, what year was it? 2006. And look at our economy now, please.

 

[kbv]

Now I can see why you guys have less average points in Toefl than foreigners.

Excuse me, now you really offend me. What is your TOEFL score? Tell me yours and I will tell you mine.

Please remember this, a US pharmacist can be a native or an immigrant.

What business does a native have with the Test of English as a Foreign Language, I wonder?

An immigrant is required to take the TOEFL. "• Send letters of reference, foreign transcript evaluation reports, and test scores (PCAT, TOEFL, and TSE) scores to PharmCAS by the application deadline, if required by your designated pharmacy schools" http://www.pharmcas.org/advisors/apptutorial.htm

 

[rxforlife2004]

There is a huge shortage of pharmacists. US labor department.Job Outlook [] Employment is expected to increase much faster than the average through 2016. As a result of rapid growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupation, job prospects should be excellent.
Employment change. Employment of pharmacists is expected to grow by 22 percent between 2006 and 2016, which is much faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing numbers of middle-aged and elderly people&#8212;who use more prescription drugs than younger people&#8212;will continue to spur demand for pharmacists throughout the projection period. Other factors likely to increase the demand for pharmacists include scientific advances that will make more drug products available and the coverage of prescription drugs by a greater number of health insurance plans and Medicare.
As the use of prescription drugs increases, demand for pharmacists will grow in most practice settings, such as community pharmacies, hospital pharmacies, and mail-order pharmacies. As the population ages, assisted living facilities and home care organizations should see particularly rapid growth. Demand will also increase as cost conscious insurers, in an attempt to improve preventative care, use pharmacists in areas such as patient education and vaccination administration.

For the latest wage information: The above wage data are from the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey program, unless otherwise noted. For the latest National, State, and local earnings data, visit the following pages:
Pharmacists


Related Occupations [About this section] Back to Top Pharmacy technicians and pharmacy aides also work in pharmacies. Persons in other professions who may work with pharmaceutical compounds include biological scientists, medical scientists, and chemists and materials scientists. Increasingly, pharmacists are involved in patient care and therapy, work that they have in common with physicians and surgeons.


Sources of Additional Information [About this section] Back to Top
Disclaimer: Links to non-BLS Internet sites are provided for your convenience and do not constitute an endorsement.


For information on pharmacy as a career, preprofessional and professional requirements, programs offered by colleges of pharmacy, and student financial aid, contact:
[[*]National Association of Boards of Pharmacy, 1600 Feehanville Dr., Mount Prospect, IL 60056. Internet: NABP <> National Association of Boards of Pharmacy
[/LIST]

I'm telling you this, my friend: while most information from BLS.GOV are good, some of them can be the most BS*** ever! It is a scam. Take a look at the "Tomorrow job" in BLS section, they still put "computer software engineering" as one of the fastest growing job. What the heck? This doesn't really reflect the reality now...or even 10 more years. Pharmacy profession, in general-national wide, job market is neutral (demand= supply). But we don't have a shortage! Period! Maybe in some rural areas, u'll get a job easily there, but the question is "Will u work there? in such hot/dry- no life condition?" If you say yes, then yeah...there's a shortage. If u say no, then just be quiet and admit the fact that there is NO shortage. One of my friend just grad this year trying to get a job in my area....Took him a month to get a job in retail and he's still floating like 30-40 miles everyday to work ( no home store yet). For hospital, last time i checked online at my county, there were only new 7 openings jobs around my county and 4 of 7 were per-diem at hospital. I remember this time, last year, another friend of my graduated , got a job with Walgreens in my county area, he got to float in the range of 10-20 miles, but not like 40 miles from home. You get the idea. Job market is getting keener and keener everyday, my friend. CVS, Walgreens cut hours like crazy, even to technicians.

"Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known."Yeah, right...if you want to do research, get a Ph.D and work for Pfizer, invent some drugs and get big bucks. I have some ideas for u: why don't u try to invent an anti-hypertensive drug that make people increase libido as one of the side effect? There you go, pop in a Viagra and Pfizer will thank you so much....how about inventing a drug to kill all "bad" bacteria and fungal infection ( E Coli, Strep, MRSA, VRE, Listeria, Candidas Albicans, etc...) and at the same time keeping the good ones (normal flora) alive...no more infections (need a name? How about Gorigamycin).

"Bottom line we are of Universal standard can fit it to any position" Well, that's good for everywhere else...but please, not in the US.

 

[rxforlife2004]

why I always agree with you, I wonder?

'cuz u know u have a crush on me...

 

[kbv]

Where did you get your arrogant ideas? For your information in my country we have to go through 3 years of pre-school and 5!!!!! years of Pharmacy School (8 years in total!!!). In adition to that we have to sit for a 300 questions Equivalency Exam (FPGEE) to prove our Degree in this country. Then we have to pass TOEFL iBT with the highest standars within US. You have multiple choice kind of questions in your exams, I have "Explain your answer" kind of questions in which you really need to know the answer and say why you think it is the correct answer, no room for guessing. That's just to mention some differences. So, please next time you want to post comments like the above keep it for your arrogant mind. You are damaging the prestige of many good american pharmacists that I know that would be very disappointed with comments like this.
I can see a lot of envy in your comments, if money is what bothers you blame your Educational System and not us. We do not want your job, we just want the opportunity to cover your needs, if you do not need us is OK do not hire us. A certification process is just that, certification is all that we ask, to prove our knowledge in whatever country that our service is needed. Certification does not mean that we are automatically hired, in fact most of the foreign pharmacist come to this country under a working visa, if the Company not longer needs them they have to go back to their countries. Certification is Education Degree and Education is a human right, the hiring is just Marketing.
you can sleep, your job is very secure.

"For your information in my country we have to go through 3 years of pre-school and 5!!!!! years of Pharmacy School (8 years in total!!!). In adition to that we have to sit for a 300 questions Equivalency Exam (FPGEE) to prove our Degree in this country. Then we have to pass TOEFL iBT with the highest standars within US. You have multiple choice kind of questions in your exams, I have "Explain your answer" kind of questions in which you really need to know the answer and say why you think it is the correct answer, no room for guessing. That's just to mention some differences."

You should have overjoyed that you are not required to study pharmacy all over again in the US. No free meals please. Don't complain since nobody forces you.

"You are damaging the prestige of many good american pharmacists that I know that would be very disappointed with comments like this."

I hope those american pharmacists are in the right mind. I want to save a spot in the US pharmacist workforce for my brother once he is naturalized.

"I can see a lot of envy in your comments, if money is what bothers you blame your Educational System and not us."

I am very sorry, but all I can think of is to blame the foreign pharmacists (yeah, my income is at stake).

"We do not want your job, we just want the opportunity to cover your needs, if you do not need us is OK do not hire us."

You know, by working in the US, you really want our job. Well, if it were up to me, there would be no discussion here. Yeah, you already said it, your "opportunity" right, but I don't really see my need to be covered by you.

"A certification process is just that, certification is all that we ask, to prove our knowledge in whatever country that our service is needed. Certification does not mean that we are automatically hired, in fact most of the foreign pharmacist come to this country under a working visa, if the Company not longer needs them they have to go back to their countries. Certification is Education Degree and Education is a human right, the hiring is just Marketing.
you can sleep, your job is very secure."

May I ask where you are from? Your country doesn't need you at all?

 

[kbv]

"are you kidding me? I'm the first pharmacist to say NO to this...at all cost.
Why Buddy are you afraid of competition or are you afraid you are not smart enough
to face the tough technical sound co worker around you, Who will out perform you.

States healthcare system is suffering from a dangerous shortage of pharmacists. Consequently, patients are at risk and vulnerable to serious injury due to the lack of pharmacists where needed."

yeah...right...with this many of pharmacy schools, students graduating in a couple more years will have a hard time to get jobs. It is already very saturated in some areas.

Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known.

"Many pharmacists from foreign countries are technically qualified to enter the profession in the United States ..."

NO, they are NOT. Their training in their own countries are NOT the same as in the US. Did they have to go thru school 4 yrs, getting a BS , then apply for Pharm.D like in the US for a total of 7-8 yrs? NO. Do they get exposed to clinical training, monitoring/dosing PK/TPN , consulting per pharmacy like pharmacists in the US? Maybe, but not as much as here.

Yes, you are right they are not trained in the way in the way US School train, 100%
In fact the Pharmacist from other countries are trained in more Universal Way, we study from all Pharmacopeias, BP,EU of course all American standard. We do have 4year curriculum, we learn from scratch of a drug. These curriculums in most nations are tailored by WHO standard. Bottom line we are of Universal standard can fit it to any position. In US foreign PHARMACIST, pass FPGEE, NAPLEX,MPJE, before becoming a Pharmacist, if you don’t know, these are standard which are tough and meet the highest standard. Please take the number of Physician, Nurse, Pharmacist and other support who is a living example, please see the statistic of there performance.

"ETS is not accurate in judging the English language ability of those being tested."

Yeah, this is true, but hey it's all good 'cuz it will kick out the foreign dude/dudees trying to get US green card and floor our job market.

You don’t represent the spirit of the United States, a country which has been welcoming all nationality and culture. Why do they give citizenship to people born here irrespective of there parents nationality.

I never sign/support such thing, especially with this kind of bad economy...i want to ensure people in the US graduating will have a job...it doesn't make any sense when u go thru school for 8 yrs, getting in debt with 150K, and couldn't find a job...whereas some dude/dudee from out of country is sitting on the desk with a cup of coffee...

You support or not, of course you don’t have to be afraid of getting a job any where in the US, if you have good record, If you have poor record even if you are Pharmacist you will be out of job. Hope this make sense.

Why Buddy are you afraid of competition or are you afraid you are not smart enough
to face the tough technical sound co worker around you, Who will out perform you

Why competition? I want monopoly.

Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known.

It goes without saying. Don't you think your statement sounds naive? 100% means nobody dies, yeah no need of medical doctors, hence no need of pharmacists.

Yes, you are right they are not trained in the way in the way US School train, 100%
In fact the Pharmacist from other countries are trained in more Universal Way, we study from all Pharmacopeias, BP,EU of course all American standard. We do have 4year curriculum, we learn from scratch of a drug. These curriculums in most nations are tailored by WHO standard. Bottom line we are of Universal standard can fit it to any position. In US foreign PHARMACIST, pass FPGEE, NAPLEX,MPJE, before becoming a Pharmacist, if you don’t know, these are standard which are tough and meet the highest standard. Please take the number of Physician, Nurse, Pharmacist and other support who is a living example, please see the statistic of there performance.

I believe this is already discussed.

You don’t represent the spirit of the United States, a country which has been welcoming all nationality and culture. Why do they give citizenship to people born here irrespective of there parents nationality.

I am so sorry, but your statements are wrong. The US does welcome, even allows the immigration and naturalization. However, you are foreigners who come to work under a visa. This is the reason of the discussions going on in this thread.

 

[magdos2005]

Dear rxforlife2004, The significant number of current pharmaceutical and chemical terms derived from Arabic language: drug, alkali, alcohol, aldehydes, and elixir among others, not to mention syrups and juleps. They invented flavorings extracts made of rose water, orange blossom water, orange and lemon peel, tragacanth and other attractive ingredients. Space does not permit me to list the contributions to pharmacology and therapeutics, made by Razi, Zahrawi, Biruni, Ibn Butlan who were practicing pharmacy before you were born. Those people were highly educated, intelligent, and articulated as well. The main different between those people and you was that they were not supercilious individuals. You said that the foreign pharmacists aren't trained and educated enough to work in USA. Let me say that you know nothing about anything despite the fact that you have tried hard to learn something.
You need to read and to learn about other countries. If someone, who is a foreigner as you called him/her, came to you pharmacy to fill a prescription are you going to show him/her your hatred feeling? . I don't think so, you know why?
Because this country was built with integrity and unity, and it will never let anyone to change these concepts. Good pharmacists are not only individuals , who are highly educated and knowledgeable, but also they are articulated and know how they treat others respectfully and equally . I took these courses 25 years ago even before you were born. By the way, I practiced a hospital pharmacy 300 hours( IV adm,unit dose system), a clinical pharmacy 300 hours, a pharmaceutical industry 300 hrs, and a retail pharmacy 300 hours then I spent one your at a public hospital before taking my license. It is hard for someone ,who is a professional person and highly educated to be biased. Pharmacist are almost always impartial people in spite of the fact that you are not one of them.
Preparatory year: 1st semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Inorganic Chemistry 3 150
Physics 3 150
Zoology 3 150
Botany 3 150
English Language 2 50
Mathematics in Pharmacy 2 100
Medical Terminology & Pharmacy Orientation 2 100
Totals 18 850


Preparatory year: 2nd semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Physical Chemistry 3 150
Biophysics 3 150
Organic Chemistry 3 150
Botany 3 150
Anatomy & Histology 3 150
Computer Science and Bio-statistics 3 150
Zoology 2 100
Totals 20 1000


1st year (Freshman): 1st semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Pharmaceutical organic chemistry 3 300
Pharmaceutics 3 300
Analytical pharmaceutical chemistry 4 300
Pharmacognosy 3 300
Physiology 4 300
Psychology & Sociology 2 50
Totals 19 1550


1st year (Freshman): 2nd semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Analytical Pharmaceutical chemistry 3 300
Physical Pharmacy 4 300
Pharmacognosy 3 300
General microbiology & Immunology 3 300
Pharmaceutical organic chemistry 4 300
Totals 17 1500


2nd year: 1st semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Pharmaceutical organic chemistry & Spectroscopy 4 300
Pharmaceutical microbiology 3 300
Pharmaceutics 3 300
Biochemistry 3 300
Parasitology 3 200
Instrumental analysis 3 300
Totals 19 1700


2nd year: 2nd semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Pharmaceutics 3 300
Medical microbiology 3 300
Biochemistry 3 300
Chemistry of Natural Products 4 300
Pathology 3 200
Pharmacy Administration 1 50
Totals 17 1450


3rd year (Junior): 1st semester

Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Pharmaceutics 3 300
Pharmacology (1) 3 300
Biopharmaceutics 3 300
Chemistry of Natural Products (2) 4 300
Industrial Pharmacy (1) 3 300
Pharmaceutical Chemistry (1) 4 300
Pathophysiology 2 150
Totals 22 1950


3rd year (Junior): 2nd semester

Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Drug Design 4 300
Pharmacology (2) 2 300
Clinical Biochemistry 3 300
Toxicology 2 200
Clinical Pharmacy (1) 3 300
Pharmacokinetic 3 300
Industrial Pharmacy (2) 3 300
Totals 20 2000


4th year (Senior): 1st semester

Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Clinical Pharmacy (2) 3 300
Clinical Pharmacology 3 300
Pharmacy Practice 3 300
Clinical Toxicology 3 300
Biotechnology 2 200
Pharmaceutical Chemistry (2) 3 300
Pharmacy Law 1 50
First aid 1 50
Totals 19 1800


4th year (Senior): 2nd semester

Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Dosage form design 3 300
Public Health 3 200
Analysis of food & cosmetics 3 300
Good Manufacturing Practice 2 200
Drug & Poison information 1 100
Quality Control of herbal products 3 300
Elective course (1) 3 300
Elective course (2) 3 300
Totals 21 2000


Elective Courses:

Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Chemistry & Analysis of drugs 3 300
Chemotherapy 3 300
Planning , Marketing & Economics of Drugs 3 300
Clinical Pharmacy 3 300
Cosmetics 3 300
Hospital Pharmacy 3 300
Drug Interactions 3 300
Clinical Pharmacy Practice 3 300
Dosage Form Design 3 300
Clinical Pharmacokinetic 3 300
Drug Stability 3 300
Drugs of abuse & addiction 3 300
Nonprescription drugs (O.T.C) 3 300
Communications in Pharmacy 3 300
Drugs spectrophotometric Quality Control 3 300
Microbiological Quality Control 3 300
Clinical Nutrition 3 300
Production of medicinal & aromatic plants 3 300
Tissue Culture 3 300
Industrial Microbiology 3 300

 

[magdos2005]

Pharmacists are in demand because of a national shortage of them Pharmacy school graduates in demand due to nationwide shortage


April 21, 2008 - The Post and Courier (AARP.org)




By Diane Knich
Apr. 21, 2008 (McClatchy-Tribune Regional News delivered by Newstex) --
Dana Pompey decided to enroll in pharmacy school because she thought the profession would offer the flexibility to do many different types of work.

The fact that pharmacists are in demand because of a national shortage wasn't a factor in her decision, she said. But as she approaches her graduation from the four-year program at the Medical University of South Carolina, it's paying off in job and salary offers.

Pompey, 32, who will graduate in May, landed her first job as a pharmacist for Target in Greenville in early January.

Although the shortage might be good news for students about to hit the job market, it's making it tougher for drug store operators to manage their businesses, Laura Miller, senior economist for the National Association of Chain Drug Stores, said.

Joe DiPiro, executive dean of the South Carolina College of Pharmacy, said the shortage has boosted pharmacists' salaries.

"All of our graduates expect to earn more than $100,000 in their first year" of employment, he said.

The South Carolina College of Pharmacy was formed in 2004 when MUSC's pharmacy school merged with the one at USC in Columbia.

Pharmacy students who graduate this year or in 2009 are considered graduates of the university in which they enrolled. Those graduating after 2009 will be graduates of the South Carolina College of Pharmacy.

Several national drug store chains with stores in the Charleston area referred questions about the pharmacist shortage to the National Association of Chain Drug stores.

Miller said the number of chain drug stores has grown in response to the increased demand for prescription drugs. The demand, she said, is fueled by increased prescription insurance coverage, more new drugs available and an aging population that simply needs more pharmaceuticals.

The number of prescriptions filled by pharmacists at chain drug stores "will continue to go up, up, up," she predicted.

But there aren't enough pharmacists available to adequately staff all of those stores, she said.

According to the 2007 data from the association, the pharmacist shortage in South Carolina ranks about "2" on a 1-to-5 scale, which means the state has some shortage, but not a large shortage.

DiPiro said enrollment at the South Carolina College of Pharmacy is up 40 percent from two years ago. Now, 190 students are enrolled. Another enrollment jump isn't in the works, he said, because officials are still stabilizing the program from the large increase two years ago.

He also noted that today, women make up two-thirds of students in pharmacy school. Many women are attracted to the profession because it offers the option of working flexible hours, DiPiro said.

Flexible schedules, however, might be another factor contributing to the pharmacist shortage, he said.

USC fourth-year pharmacy student Kate Gerrald, 24, said she's planning to do post-graduate training at Wake Forest University after she graduates. She said that she's never heard one of her fellow students say they chose to pursue a career in pharmacy because pharmacists are in demand.

But, she said, "we're all aware we'll always have a job."

Newstex ID: KRTB-0040-24662742

Please, what year was it? 2006. And look at our economy now, please.

 

[sadcat]

Excuse me, now you really offend me. What is your TOEFL score? Tell me yours and I will tell you mine.

Please remember this, a US pharmacist can be a native or an immigrant.

What business does a native have with the Test of English as a Foreign Language, I wonder?

An immigrant is required to take the TOEFL. "• Send letters of reference, foreign transcript evaluation reports, and test scores (PCAT, TOEFL, and TSE) scores to PharmCAS by the application deadline, if required by your designated pharmacy schools" http://www.pharmcas.org/advisors/apptutorial.htm

The mean score of American candidates was 22 on the Speaking section
According to TOEFL® Test and Score Data Summary for TOEFL Internet-Based Test: September 2005-December 2006 Test Data (Educational Testing Service, page 9-10), the mean score of the candidates from the United States on the speaking section of TOEFL iBT was only 22 whereas the mean score of the candidates from country that English is their primary language is 23.

 

[PCM]

Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known."Yeah, right...if you want to do research, get a Ph.D and work for Pfizer, invent some drugs and get big bucks. I have some ideas for u: why don't u try to invent an anti-hypertensive drug that make people increase libido as one of the side effect? There you go, pop in a Viagra and Pfizer will thank you so much....how about inventing a drug to kill all "bad" bacteria and fungal infection ( E Coli, Strep, MRSA, VRE, Listeria, Candidas Albicans, etc...) and at the same time keeping the good ones (normal flora) alive...no more infections (need a name? How about Gorigamycin).

Hi,
You have great innovative ideas, keep it for yourself.
Advise; be safe, otherwise you would have to take some antipsychotic.

 

[sadcat]

Health care is a domain; Pharmacy is a field where research is still lacking, due to less trained man power. Still cure has not been 100% in all the disease which is known."Yeah, right...if you want to do research, get a Ph.D and work for Pfizer, invent some drugs and get big bucks. I have some ideas for u: why don't u try to invent an anti-hypertensive drug that make people increase libido as one of the side effect? There you go, pop in a Viagra and Pfizer will thank you so much....how about inventing a drug to kill all "bad" bacteria and fungal infection ( E Coli, Strep, MRSA, VRE, Listeria, Candidas Albicans, etc...) and at the same time keeping the good ones (normal flora) alive...no more infections (need a name? How about Gorigamycin).

Hi,
You have great innovative ideas, keep it for yourself.
Advise; be safe, otherwise you would have to take some antipsychotic.

 

[confettiflyer]

half the posts in here don't make any sense

a bunch of the posts here look like someone's brain threw up

i can't think of anyone who would support lifting these restrictions. If anything, this thread alone has called to our attention the NEED for a stronger TOEFL requirement.

holy ****

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

half the posts in here don't make any sense

a bunch of the posts here look like someone's brain threw up

i can't think of anyone who would support lifting these restrictions. If anything, this thread alone has called to our attention the NEED for a stronger TOEFL requirement.

holy ****

 

[evilolive]

If anything, these people have hurt their cause more than helped it.

 

[yashak]

Hi rxforlife2004,

I feel so sorry for your anger, demeanor and lack of knowledge about the outside world and foreign pharmacy graduate for that matter. Your limited knowledge about the world isn't different from the 95% of Americans.

I believe you are very amateurish and may even don’t deserve a response. However, a little advice doesn’t hurt you if you have a heart to listen and a mind to comprehend.

You are absolutely right that foreign pharmacy education is different from US. But to your surprise, it may be better, the same or poor. But no one has said that a foreign pharmacy graduate has to practice pharmacy without any assessment and evaluation. I would like you to do a little research how the process works. The NABP has a system in place to evaluate foreign pharmacy graduate’s educational equivalency to the US education. Some of your professors, community, hospital and industrial pharmacists involve in preparing an exam that they believe effective and efficient to evaluate foreign pharmacist knowledge about the profession of pharmacy. I would like to assure you that most of us who are working at different pharmaceutical, biotech, universities or somewhere else score way above their expectation to begin the first step to integrate to the system. After this step, there is along process which we support and encourage if it is really about health care quality. What are arguing is using a flawed, inconsistent and invalid English language proficiency test, which by the way even a native English speaker’s and Americans average score is 22 or 23, as a gate keeper to prevent us from beginning a path to licensure is not fair and just. We are challenging the board and even you to be honest and come clean is it isn’t about quality of our education and knowledge about the profession that concern you more. What concern you and the board is the job security and high paying salary.

It is true that most pharmacist are highly indebted and even overworked once they graduated. I feel sorry for you and others. It is your choice and if you go to school hoping pharmacy is a highly paid and well secured job, you don’t have any vision. This can change any time whether there are foreign pharmacists or not. I thank you my country for offering me a free education and knowledge. I owe a lot to my people and country. One day I will pay my due. Unfortunately, I came to this country not to take your job but to study and still working in a well paid biotech company with less stress and pressure. But I don’t think I should be told that you can’t practice pharmacy as you aren’t able to score a speaking section of TOFEL-iBT way higher than the native speaker. You are right that ETS is a gate keeper for the NABP to prevent foreign pharmacists from working as pharmacist in this country. We know it and we are challenging the board not to steal about $1000.00 each from foreign graduates. If the board is serious and concerned about job security, they need to tell us officially and stop taking money from innocent foreign pharmacists. Stealing $150.00 every time they register for TOFEL-iBT is a rip off. That must stop.

You may be surprised some of us (foreign graduates) are your tutors and work as a teaching assistant. We never got a chance of spoon feeding when we were students. We were able to learn the profession with hard work, perseverance and extreme challenge.

But we never said that we are better than US pharmacists and asked a free pass. What we are asking is honesty, transparency and accountability.

I hope you will have a heart to have passion for your fellow human beings.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

No matter what you guys say, I think it is pretty clear that most pharmacy students here agree there is NO shortage (we would know since we are the ones applying for jobs) and that you will find no support here unless you are a foreign pharmacist.

I am going to keep it simple. Worry about increasing your public healthcare instead of ours. We WILL be fine!

 

[yashak]

Hi Aznfarmerboi,

If you are going to pharmacy school to reach into conclusion about an issue without any data and illogically, you are wasting much of your time. We respect your opinion but not your arrogance. People of common sense can discuss issues consciously, wisely and seriously.

Onething that you don't understand is some of us who are foreign pharmacy graduates by destiny are US citizens or permanent residents of the US. We have every right to worry and be concerned about health care issues of this great nation.

If you want to know if there is any shortage of pharmacist in the US, please cool down and do a little independent research. By the way, personally I don't care whether there is a shortage of pharmacist or not. What I care most is fairness and transparency.

Yashak

 

[rxforlife2004]

Hi rxforlife2004,

I feel so sorry for your anger, demeanor and lack of knowledge about the outside world and foreign pharmacy graduate for that matter. Your limited knowledge about the world isn't different from the 95% of Americans.

I believe you are very amateurish and may even don’t deserve a response. However, a little advice doesn’t hurt you if you have a heart to listen and a mind to comprehend.

You are absolutely right that foreign pharmacy education is different from US. But to your surprise, it may be better, the same or poor. But no one has said that a foreign pharmacy graduate has to practice pharmacy without any assessment and evaluation. I would like you to do a little research how the process works. The NABP has a system in place to evaluate foreign pharmacy graduate’s educational equivalency to the US education. Some of your professors, community, hospital and industrial pharmacists involve in preparing an exam that they believe effective and efficient to evaluate foreign pharmacist knowledge about the profession of pharmacy. I would like to assure you that most of us who are working at different pharmaceutical, biotech, universities or somewhere else score way above their expectation to begin the first step to integrate to the system. After this step, there is along process which we support and encourage if it is really about health care quality. What are arguing is using a flawed, inconsistent and invalid English language proficiency test, which by the way even a native English speaker’s and Americans average score is 22 or 23, as a gate keeper to prevent us from beginning a path to licensure is not fair and just. We are challenging the board and even you to be honest and come clean is it isn’t about quality of our education and knowledge about the profession that concern you more. What concern you and the board is the job security and high paying salary.

It is true that most pharmacist are highly indebted and even overworked once they graduated. I feel sorry for you and others. It is your choice and if you go to school hoping pharmacy is a highly paid and well secured job, you don’t have any vision. This can change any time whether there are foreign pharmacists or not. I thank you my country for offering me a free education and knowledge. I owe a lot to my people and country. One day I will pay my due. Unfortunately, I came to this country not to take your job but to study and still working in a well paid biotech company with less stress and pressure. But I don’t think I should be told that you can’t practice pharmacy as you aren’t able to score a speaking section of TOFEL-iBT way higher than the native speaker. You are right that ETS is a gate keeper for the NABP to prevent foreign pharmacists from working as pharmacist in this country. We know it and we are challenging the board not to steal about $1000.00 each from foreign graduates. If the board is serious and concerned about job security, they need to tell us officially and stop taking money from innocent foreign pharmacists. Stealing $150.00 every time they register for TOFEL-iBT is a rip off. That must stop.

You may be surprised some of us (foreign graduates) are your tutors and work as a teaching assistant. We never got a chance of spoon feeding when we were students. We were able to learn the profession with hard work, perseverance and extreme challenge.

But we never said that we are better than US pharmacists and asked a free pass. What we are asking is honesty, transparency and accountability.

I hope you will have a heart to have passion for your fellow human beings.

"I feel so sorry for your anger, demeanor and lack of knowledge about the outside world and foreign pharmacy graduate for that matter. Your limited knowledge about the world isn't different from the 95% of Americans."

Oh yeah? ahaha...i am laughing my ass off here...i enjoy debating with you guys. i guess that's called "anger" huh?

"What are arguing is using a flawed, inconsistent and invalid English language proficiency test, which by the way even a native English speaker’s and Americans average score is 22 or 23, as a gate keeper to prevent us from beginning a path to licensure is not fair and just."

Wow..really? Just the TOEFL thingy? Well, then too bad...But then u make me think a lot...so I just emailed the congress + NABP to make the exams for you guys a lot harder and I even requested them to give more clinical questions on the tests...a lot more. Even so, i did email and proposed a future "oral" exam...in which you have to be in a room and answering questions by mouth and the professors pretend to be patients.... If you cannot articulate your thoughts or if you don't counsel appropriately, you're OUT!. I complained to the NABP that i've worked with some foreign pharmacists and they provide unsafe counseling and at a low/minimum clinical knowledge to physicians....

"I thank you my country for offering me a free education and knowledge. I owe a lot to my people and country. One day I will pay my due."

Really? Then go back and pay your due for your country. Don't BS around here...Time to do is NOW...aite? Don't make up excuses...

"You may be surprised some of us (foreign graduates) are your tutors and work as a teaching assistant"

Really? Me too...I used to be a tutor too...so is everyone else. What's so hard being a tutor? getting paid and doing BS stuff...easy money!

To maddog05:

"The significant number of current pharmaceutical and chemical terms derived from Arabic language: drug, alkali, alcohol, aldehydes, and elixir among others, not to mention syrups and juleps. They invented flavorings extracts made of rose water, orange blossom water, orange and lemon peel, tragacanth and other attractive ingredients."

You should go for history major, dude, not pharmacy. Who cares who invented ? This is 2008!!!! My Chinese ancestor invented ignition/bomb for mining, and you guys stole our ideas to kill people! how about that?

"Preparatory year: 2nd semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Physical Chemistry 3 150
Biophysics 3 150
Organic Chemistry 3 150
Botany 3 150
Anatomy & Histology 3 150
Computer Science and Bio-statistics 3 150
Zoology 2 100
Totals 20 1000


1st year (Freshman): 1st semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Pharmaceutical organic chemistry 3 300
Pharmaceutics 3 300
Analytical pharmaceutical chemistry 4 300
Pharmacognosy 3 300
Physiology 4 300
Psychology & Sociology 2 50
Totals 19 1550


1st year (Freshman): 2nd semester
Course title Credit hours/week Total marks
Analytical Pharmaceutical chemistry 3 300
Physical Pharmacy 4 300
Pharmacognosy 3 300
General microbiology & Immunology 3 300
Pharmaceutical organic chemistry 4 300
Totals 17 1500


"
WTF is this? your school menu? I am not interested. This doesn't prove anything to me...

 

[rxforlife2004]

Hi Aznfarmerboi,

If you are going to pharmacy school to reach into conclusion about an issue without any data and illogically, you are wasting much of your time. We respect your opinion but not your arrogance. People of common sense can discuss issues consciously, wisely and seriously.

Onething that you don't understand is some of us who are foreign pharmacy graduates by destiny are US citizens or permanent residents of the US. We have every right to worry and be concerned about health care issues of this great nation.

If you want to know if there is any shortage of pharmacist in the US, please cool down and do a little independent research. By the way, personally I don't care whether there is a shortage of pharmacist or not. What I care most is fairness and transparency.

Yashak

Once again, i have to repeat this: there is NO SHORTAGE!!! Now get back to your homeland and provide pharmaceutical care there! Thank you very much.

 

[sadcat]

half the posts in here don't make any sense

a bunch of the posts here look like someone's brain threw up

i can't think of anyone who would support lifting these restrictions. If anything, this thread alone has called to our attention the NEED for a stronger TOEFL requirement.

holy ****

We can understand why you are not able to understand the posts.

 

[yashak]

Hi Lol,

I said and knew it when I read your postinng that you are a disgruntled amateurish lad who hopes to make thousands of bucks after graduation. I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand even very simple topics.

You better go and buy a kool-aid and read my post quietly. I have a very decent job and making a good bucks. Do you know that you won't even have a 15mints break once you begin dispensing at Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid? I still have plenty of time to respond to your nonsense post from my computer desk.

Please focus on your school and you will have an idea how terrible and exhausting will be the profession you are being trained. Do you know that majority of pharmacy graduates from this nation get burned in five years? Do you know why Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid desperately looking for pharmacist from outside US? I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand my answers and leave it for you to wallow and rumble as usual.

Yashak

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I agree with you rx4lyfe04, I have worked with a lot of foreign pharmacists/graduates who not have no clue what they are doing. Some of them are too afraid to even provide basic counseling.

Their cirriculum do tell me something. It is not enough. Compare it to any pharmacy school in the US and you can tell that ours are way better. Heck, we spend 4 semesters on clinical courses alone with pre clinical courses!

The cirriculum provided below would by no mean be enough for say a pharmacist in the army who would follow up with labs and drug therapy plan after a doctor diagnosis, or a clinical toxicologist.

 

[iphetamine]

Wow, what an exhausting thread...lol.

The bottom line is that our (foreign) pharmacy education sucks big time compared to the US.
And magdo2005, is that Tanta's University's curriculum? Who gives a crap, courses could be similar to those taught in the US, but what about the practical part?? It's waaaaayy different through the ground. Our pharmacies lack integrity and so much illegal stuff is going on and no one doing anything about it. And hospitals...give me a break, they're the worst and you can't really train clinically to higher standards or even match overseas standards.

I would definitely do a 3-year PharmD program in an american university, not necessarily to get a job in the US but improve myself as professional and be better eduacted.

....and just to add, our English sucks, they barely speak good medical english let alone regular every day conversations.

Just MHO.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Hi Lol,

I said and knew it when I read your postinng that you are a disgruntled amateurish lad who hopes to make thousands of bucks after graduation. I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand even very simple topics.

You better go and buy a kool-aid and read my post quietly. I have a very decent job and making a good bucks. Do you know that you won't even have a 15mints break once you begin dispensing at Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid? I still have plenty of time to respond to your nonsense post from my computer desk.

Please focus on your school and you will have an idea how terrible and exhausting will be the profession you are being trained. Do you know that majority of pharmacy graduates from this nation get burned in five years? Do you know why Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid desperately looking for pharmacist from outside US? I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand my answers and leave it for you to wallow and rumble as usual.

Yashak

Your post exposed to why we SHOULD NOT support your cause. The majority of you guys are just cheap labor for chains. I am not arrogant. I do however have a sense of economics and what is going on.

The arguement is simple. You guys want us to support your cause because you want to be employed here. You guys cannot because they are giving you guys unfair standards as a barrier. The standards should thus be lowered because it poses a danger to American healthcare due to a shortage.

Our answer is simple. . NO, tough luck. If anything, we oppose it because 1. there is no shortage, and 2. It is not fair to us because we are graduating with 150k in debt plus go through far more considerable specific training to the states. Lastly on a side note, we are telling you not to turn on your country that provided you with such a cheap education (in hoping that you will give back).

The arguement comes down to this. There are barriers for reasons. Figure it out. If it is not worth over coming those barriers, dont do it. My parents and generations before were a lot worst off.

PS. yashak; where are you from?

 

[yashak]

Hi Lols,

Fantastico! What the heck are you talking? Counseling? Don't make me laugh please. Let alone to counsel, you don't have guys time to sneeze. If you guys are mature and understand well, we are asking the NABP to use a face to face interview to measure English skill of foreign graduates. Without knowing it, you are supporting our cause. That is fantastic. Our argument is how on earth we are expected to score 26 on speaking when the very native speakers and some of you score 22 and 23 on a lousy and flawed test? We know that it isn't about counseling or speaking. It is about false pride. American Education is fantastico. When the facts speak the other way.

Telling ignorants doesn't make any sense but if you have ears and eyes please read this one below:
The 1500 hours of internship was intended to teach us what you called in you nonsense posting of "C-O-U-N-S-E-L-I-N-G" WHEN IN REALITY WE ALL KNOW THAT EVERY PATIENT IS COMPALINING OF LACK OF COUNSELIN DUE TO OVERWORKED PHARMACISTS.

Anyway, I don't think you have the mental caliber to comprhend what we are talking and walking.

Merci Beaucoup.

Yashak

 

[yashak]

Hi Buddies,

We aren't begging to support us. We are telling the truth and it is hard for you guys to swallow. It is a bitter pill to swallow. I understand your concern and what I said in my first posting was the NABP must say it point blank we don't need foreign pharmacists. Taking thousands of Foreign pharmacy graduates dollars to cover administration budget for things non related to foreign pharmacy activities is unfair.

Those of us here are okay. But for those who are travelling from abroad just to take FPGEE and stuck after the test with debt is immoral. The Board has a responsibility to make it policy clear and reasses it.

America's preaching about Globalization when it has the advantage and gate keeping when it is at a disadvantage is immoral.

Gracias.

Yashak

 

[kbv]

Hi Lols,

Fantastico! What the heck are you talking? Counseling? Don't make me laugh please. Let alone to counsel, you don't have guys time to sneeze. If you guys are mature and understand well, we are asking the NABP to use a face to face interview to measure English skill of foreign graduates. Without knowing it, you are supporting our cause. That is fantastic. Our argument is how on earth we are expected to score 26 on speaking when the very native speakers and some of you score 22 and 23 on a lousy and flawed test? We know that it isn't about counseling or speaking. It is about false pride. American Education is fantastico. When the facts speak the other way.

Telling ignorants doesn't make any sense but if you have ears and eyes please read this one below:
The 1500 hours of internship was intended to teach us what you called in you nonsense posting of "C-O-U-N-S-E-L-I-N-G" WHEN IN REALITY WE ALL KNOW THAT EVERY PATIENT IS COMPALINING OF LACK OF COUNSELIN DUE TO OVERWORKED PHARMACISTS.

Anyway, I don't think you have the mental caliber to comprhend what we are talking and walking.

Merci Beaucoup.

Yashak

The more I read your threads, the more malicious their tone becomes.

Your posts indicate your ignorance of the pharmacy law, reality, and spirit of the Oath of the profession.

I would do anything within my power to stop your invasion into the US pharmacy.

So just wait and see,

 

[kbv]

Hi Buddies,

We aren't begging to support us. We are telling the truth and it is hard for you guys to swallow. It is a bitter pill to swallow. I understand your concern and what I said in my first posting was the NABP must say it point blank we don't need foreign pharmacists. Taking thousands of Foreign pharmacy graduates dollars to cover administration budget for things non related to foreign pharmacy activities is unfair.

Those of us here are okay. But for those who are travelling from abroad just to take FPGEE and stuck after the test with debt is immoral. The Board has a responsibility to make it policy clear and reasses it.

America's preaching about Globalization when it has the advantage and gate keeping when it is at a disadvantage is immoral.

Gracias.

Yashak

So sorry but this is exactly what you guys are doing, begging us to support you.

It seems you should learn more of the way of life. We don't want you; it's you who want our acceptance and acknowledgement. So please stop preaching and whining about "immoral, fair,..blah...blah...blah...".

 

[yashak]

Hi kbv,

I don't think you can lecture me about the Oath of pharmacy profession. If you are a man please help the patients that you under oath promise to help. I don't need to tell you about it.Who are you first of all to say you don't want us? . What you don't understand is you don't have power even to ask for a decent working conditions for pharmacists in the US.

The person who posted the call for pharmacists didn't intend to ask US pharmacists to call NABP. He/she was trying to inform foreign graduates to send the letter of petition to the board. Unfortunately, the animosity, arrogance and demeanor from US pharmacists forced me to respond and expose the lie. I never imagined to get help or support from the slaves of their own profession. I was telling the facts and the realities.

If you have any power, please free yourself from overworking, work dissatisfaction and exploitation.

This will be my last post.

Sava.

 

[kbv]

Hi Lol,

I said and knew it when I read your postinng that you are a disgruntled amateurish lad who hopes to make thousands of bucks after graduation. I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand even very simple topics.

You better go and buy a kool-aid and read my post quietly. I have a very decent job and making a good bucks. Do you know that you won't even have a 15mints break once you begin dispensing at Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid? I still have plenty of time to respond to your nonsense post from my computer desk.

Please focus on your school and you will have an idea how terrible and exhausting will be the profession you are being trained. Do you know that majority of pharmacy graduates from this nation get burned in five years? Do you know why Walgreen, Long's and Rite Aid desperately looking for pharmacist from outside US? I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand my answers and leave it for you to wallow and rumble as usual.

Yashak

Tell me, who don't want "thousands of bucks"? Why do you pay "$100,000", or so that you named, to take the FPGEE if you complain about "unfair...blah...blah...blah"? Oh, correction here: it's a 6-digit sum, not just "thousands".

Please, go back and read the law. Every pharmacist earns a 30 min break if they work 8-hour. It's mandated in CA.

If it's "terrible" and "exhausting", just quit. You are so naive, "get burned in 5 years"? Give me a break.

Yeah, they are desperate for you guys because of the cheap labor. Do the mental incapacity get accepted into the profession then get licensed to practice? You are unbelievable.

Why do you foreigners insist coming here to practice, although you keep stigmatizing us with "immoral, unfair,..."? You still want to stay here working with us? How noble!!! Again, give me another break.

P.S: I'm terribly sorry if I accidentally offend or sound discriminated against the unfortunate. It's unintentional.

 

[kbv]

Hi kbv,

I don't think you can lecture me about the Oath of pharmacy profession. If you are a man please help the patients that you under oath promise to help. I don't need to tell you about it.Who are you first of all to say you don't want us? . What you don't understand is you don't have power even to ask for a decent working conditions for pharmacists in the US.

The person who posted the call for pharmacists didn't intend to ask US pharmacists to call NABP. He/she was trying to inform foreign graduates to send the letter of petition to the board. Unfortunately, the animosity, arrogance and demeanor from US pharmacists forced me to respond and expose the lie. I never imagined to get help or support from the slaves of their own profession. I was telling the facts and the realities.

If you have any power, please free yourself from overworking, work dissatisfaction and exploitation.

This will be my last post.

Sava.

I'm glad of it.

 

[Garfield3d]

I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been discussed yet, but my perspective falls closer to that of the NABP article:

Pharmacy, and all healthcare professions, are commonly described as "people professions." Pharmacists, doctors, dentists, and anyone in the healthcare field has a crucial responsibility to communicate their knowledge and advice in a very careful yet articulate form. This fact is commonly downplayed in day-to-day activities because, quite honestly, a great majority of a pharmacist's patients and the great majority of doctor visits are very mundane. However, there is an extremely important portion of odd circumstances or unusual situations that make it imperative that ideas from a health professional are communicated effectively.

The importance of this is easier to see if you flip the situation around. It is quite common for doctors, pharmacists, and other healthcare professionals to communicate to a patient in their native language, even if the patient seems relatively fluent in English. The importance of this isn't simply just raising the comfort level of the patient (although comfort level is an important aspect of ensuring patient compliance with a drug regimen). A healthcare professional has to minimize any chance for misunderstanding down to the smallest detail. The nuances and seemingly minor details are incredibly complex when dealing with language. Beyond simple formal talk, you have context, slang, idioms, situational formality, etc.... There's a reason why professional translators must perform years of post-graduate work and cultural experience before companies will trust them to translate their documents from one language to another. This is why Chinese doctors hold such appeal to Chinese patients and why Hispanic professionals have such an advantage when treating Hispanic patients.

If we were simply talking about undergraduate school or the citizenship test, then I would feel greater sympathy. I already do sympathize with having to learn a second language. It is an incredibly complex endeavour, even moreso when considering the cultural dichotomy standing between your native language and a new language. However, pharmacists are healthcare professionals. We communicate readily, whether it be with the rest of our staff, or to patients directly. The impact of our communication is concerned with human lives. As such, the perspective posited by the NABP is easy for me to identify with.

Best of wishes to anyone taking the revised version of the TOEFL. I am sure it will be nothing more than a small speed bump to any dedicated individual.

--Garfield3d