Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by watermen, Feb 24, 2007.
What do you call them when you are working with them?
Either by their first name or by Ms. *insert last name*. I don't address the two RTs I've worked with who have PhDs as "Dr. Soandso" and therefore I don't feel like I should do that to a midlevel just to stroke her ego.
Way to stir things up (again).
First name only.
I don't call the ward nurses "Nurse so-and-so", so why would I call the NP "Mr/Ms"?
Sometimes they screw their face up at me, but I have never been called on it. And what would they say anyway? I'm not a child, and I've sure as **** been in school as long or longer than them anyway.
What if they are evaluating you? or at least part of the evaluation?
In the hospital setting w/pt. care, "Dr." is reserved (or should be) for physicians. Certainly, you are not expected to address a midlevel as Dr.
As an aside, I had one rotation where everyone's input was solicited, down to the nursing staff.
I don't care. If they want to tank my eval because I call them by their first names, I say go for it. I think I can count on my (physician) faculty to put very little weight on their opinion. They don't scare me in the least.
And just from a principle point of view: I suck enough doctor **** on a daily basis, and my jaw is way to sore to take the mid-levels on as well.
umm certainly not doctor. They are not doctors, this is not even a debate.
Agreed. Dont know why there is even a question.
the typical custom is mr/mrs xyz until they say call me john/sue, etc
in an office setting physicians usually intoduce midlevels to their pts as "this is mr smith, the pa/np working with our practice.
despite their lack of doctorate they still deserve the common courtesy you would give to someone who works at a bank or hardware store until they invite informality. I introduce myself to new staff by my first name and to pts by first and last name but that's just me.
I work with a lot of prior military pa's who are used to
pa last name. they introduce themselves that way, answer the phone that way, etc so you hear " pa smith, neurosurgery on line five" or the equivalent as an overhead page around our dept all day long.
the op probably meant np's who have a doctorate(dnp)....and no I wouldn't call them(or a pa with a doctorate) "dr" in a clinical situation.
if they are conducting a lecture and want to calll themselves dr whoever that's ok with me but not in a clinical setting..
"I'm not a child, and I've sure as **** been in school as long or longer than them anyway."
by the time you finish residency yes, but as an ms 3 or ms 4 many of the midlevels still have more years of schooling than you do as they also have a 4 yr undergrad, a few yrs of professional school( rn/rt/etc) plus 2-3 yrs for their midlevel program. some may also have additional postgrad training. for instance a typical ms 4 has 8 yrs of post high school education, I have 9.
agree...mr smith is the appropriate way to go until they say"call me bob".
I would do the same with a pharmacist or other non md/do that I don't know as well.
So? Do you think you're the only person here that did something else before their current career?
And yes, a MS4 has more education in their actual field than a PA. "I have 9." Great, I have 12. If I went to school for basket weaving, did a master's in Yiddish slang, went back and got my associates in culinary arts does that mean I have as much formal training as a physician? Does that make us better people? No.
Seriously, I really do appreciate PAs. Really. But your constant posts here trying to stroke your own ego and equate a PAs training to a physicians really puts me off. You really are not helping your cause.
I'm really not trying to start a fight with you.
To the OP, you should absolutely NOT call an NP Dr. Address them as you would respectfully address anyone else.
I think he was quoting an above poster with the "Im not a child..." comment.
I just call them Senator, or Governor until they tell me different.
Do you call the staff nurses "Mr./Ms." until you are invited to call them by their first name? Do you do that in the rest of your life too?
I would be happy to adopt that custom, the moment someone actually applied it to me too. But in 4 years of med school, not one person has ever thought twice about calling me by my first name from the moment they meet me, so why would I do any different?
Wait, hold up. We're talking about NPs, which means they have a BSN, and an additional 2-3y in NP school. That makes 7y, which is equivalent to an MS3 who went straight to med school after undergrad.
Your point on PAs is well-taken, but in my mind there is a huge difference between PAs and NPs. Why lump both together as "mid-levels"?
I'm happy if they remember my name at all.
Intern: "Hey... ummmm... student... to go to the ER and.."
I dont see why the number of years spent training should mean anything.
My fiancee spent 6 years of college and grad school to get her pharmacy degree.
Does that mean she "outranks" a PA? How about a PT or RN? Doesnt make sense.
Your comparing apples and oranges.
As a physician, or future physician, you are in a different role than NPs, PAs, CRNAs, RNs, PTs, OTs, PharmDs...you name it.
It has nothing to do with number of years spent in school, number of years on the job or what color your scrubs are.
You should be addressed based on your title, not your CV.
my post wasn't directed at you so I don't know how I deserved that tirade.
my point was that someone who is an ms 3 or ms 4 may have less years of MEDICAL education than some midlevels they encounter. I didn't say anything about the quality of either's education I was only addressing the " I have been in school for more years than any midlevel comment". he hasn't.
I am not trying to stoke my ego here, just setting the facts straight.
"Address them as you would respectfully address anyone else."
at least we agree on this. my barber is mr jones until he tells me to call him lenny so I give at least that much courtesy to anyone in the hospital with a graduate level education.
agree and thank you.
And what about those without a "graduate level education"?
There may indeed be a difference but both NPs and PAs are still mid level practitioners.
I call our housekeepers and secuirity guys mr smith and mr jones as well.
Yeah, I guess technically they're "mid-level providers" or "mid-level practitioners", but in my limited experience they have radically different roles, and frequently very different relationships with physicians. The NPs I have worked under attempt to carve out autonomous practice zones where they function as primary care physicians, and are often loathe to seek the advice or oversight of their nominal supervising physician. The PAs on the other hand, I have seen function as true "physician extenders", and seem to work in much closer consultative roles with their docs.
Personally, if I am ever cursed with a private practice, I know who I would hire.
That seems to be more of a personality trait that does not necessarily extend to the profession as a whole. I have met both types of people you describe in both professions