Call from program

[Salsero]

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Has anyone received a phone call from an intern at a program? I have read about people getting calls from PD's, APD's and chiefs, but I haven't come across any comments about interns calling to answer questions about a program. Is this still a good sign? The program I was contacted by is one that I plan on ranking in my top 3, so should I return the call and ask a question although I don't really have one? If I don't call back, will that make me look disinterested and possibly affect my ranking? Thanks for the opinions and advice. Good luck everybody! 🙂

 

[pmpkn219]

I would definitely think if you dont' contact them they'd take that as a sign of disinterest.

I don't know if I'd necessarily Call back unless they were your #1 or #2. But maybe an email saying "thanks so much for the call, sorry I missed you".

Was the intern who called one who you met & connected with on interview day or had something in common with you (alma mater, research interest, hobbies, etc?) Or just a random intern?

 

[Salsero]

Was the intern who called one who you met & connected with on interview day or had something in common with you (alma mater, research interest, hobbies, etc?) Or just a random intern?

I don't think it was anyone I met when I interviewed there. He/she may be someone who graduated from my institution...in any case I don't know him/her. It just struck me as "different" that the program would have an intern call....I have received calls from APDs and chiefs but never an intern. Interesting tactic, if one at all. Any other opinions or advice?

 

[Abram Hoffer]

I don't think it was anyone I met when I interviewed there. He/she may be someone who graduated from my institution...in any case I don't know him/her. It just struck me as "different" that the program would have an intern call....I have received calls from APDs and chiefs but never an intern. Interesting tactic, if one at all. Any other opinions or advice?

If it's someone from your school, and you're interested in the program, by all means, call them back. That could make things much easier for you. While they cannot coerce you according to the rules, they can tell you where you are on their list and if you are "ranked to match". Take advantage if you are interested. If not, a polite return call or email thanking them for calling and reiterating the positives you took from the program.

 

[Amoeba]

I would definitely think if you dont' contact them they'd take that as a sign of disinterest.

I don't know if I'd necessarily Call back unless they were your #1 or #2. But maybe an email saying "thanks so much for the call, sorry I missed you".

I don't know...anyone else think so?

During your interview day, you're asked if you have any more questions about the program at least 1,000,344,560 times.

If they call a week later and ask again if you have any questions, and you just truly don't have any left, even if you really are interested in the program, what are you supposed to do? Call back and make one up? ("Hello. Can you tell me your favorite thing about your program? And also what new changes are underway for the department?")

I guess you're right, you could just call or email and say thanks for contacting, but if you've already sent a thanks for the interview day? I don't know if you need another thanks for the additional contact...Then maybe they try to contact you again to thank you for the thanks, and you have to thank them again so they know you're interested, and then they again tell you to feel free to contact again with more questions, and then you...

I'm kidding, of course. But early in the season I got a call a couple weeks after my interview from what will likely be my second choice, asking me to feel free to get in touch if I had more questions. I had none, and had already thanked them for the interview day, and didn't return the call. I felt okay about that choice...I certainly didn't mean it to appear disinterested and hope they didn't interpret it this way.

 

[cali-ob]

we just had our last rank list meeting on Wednesday. There were several people pretty high on our list (top 20) who we would love to have, but were unsure of their interest. Someone from the program (be it an intern who went to the same school as them, or just a random attending or resident) was assigned to call each of those persons to gauge their level of interest for rank likst order determiniation. Not to pressure or see if they have any more questions, but to see if they seem interested in coming here or if we were just a stop on their interview trail. If someone didn't return the call or email, it would be taken as a lack of interest and they could move down the list in favor of an equally desireable (or even SLIGHTLY less desirable) candidate who showed a great deal of interest.

The match is a game like dating...no one wants to say "I love you" until they are reasonably certain the other person will say it back otherwise, you can get hurt, ie programs don't want to fill up the top of their rank list with people they love, who don't love them back. Could end up unfilled.
So if you like a place, (even a little bit) it is in your best interest to call back and say something like, "thanks so much for the call. I don't have any more questions right now, but I am still very interested in your program and would love to work with you in the summer"

 

[dragonfly99]

I would call them back for the reasons cali-ob mentions.
However, I don't really agree with the way cali-ob's program does ranking. It happens a lot, though. It varies according to program. At my program, house staff had no input/influence into the interview or ranking process at all...that may not be good, but I also don't think it's good to make the whole thing into a "dating game" or popularity type of thing. This leads the lying applicants who court every program and act like it's their first choice with better ranks/matches. Not that I think programs should rank people who are not interested, but spending money to go visit somewhere and then acting nice/not crazy or evil during the interview generally connotes interest on the part of the applicant.

 

[Babycatcher2B]

Thanks for this insight Cali-Ob. During this process, I feel I haven't been the best at playing this "game". Honestly in real life, when it comes to relationships, I tend to veer away from playing games and tend not to lead people on if I had no interest in them, because I don't like to hurt others feelings. So I did the usual, went on all my interviews, wrote all my thank you notes (except one program because toward the end I just got tired of the notes, probably hurt me but what's done is done), went on one 2nd look (wasn't sure if it was good enough to bump my #1 so I had to visit to make sure), and contacted my top 5 programs to let them know I was interested (even though I only got a response from my top #2). However, throughout the process I didn't keep a whole lot of contact between the residents and the PDs, cuz I didn't want to lead a program on when I wasn't sure where they were going to stand at the end of the season (also all of my questions had been answered and I'm not the type to send suck up to residents). I even was honest to my home program and told them I was interested in some programs away, even though the best for me would have been to lie and say I wanted to go there to secure my spot just in case. But honestly I'm not a good face-to-face lier (so I guess I might have messed up there). So I see the difference between how programs and applicants submit there list. I am pretty sure all applicants know to list the programs in order of desirablility no matter the level of interest they perceive from the program. HOWEVER, I see programs do it very differently as they rank on the level of desirability and percieved interest level of the applicant. Which makes since because they probably want good applicants who actually want to be there. But all in all I think that applicants have the better advantage since they actually use the ranking system the way it was meant to be used and are not swayed by what the programs tell them (hopefully), which is seems that programs are swayed by what we tell them. So we indeed have the upper hand (if you are comfortable at lying sometimes).

 

[Babycatcher2B]

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[Law2Doc]

...
However, I don't really agree with the way cali-ob's program does ranking. It happens a lot, though. ...

I suspect that the majority of programs don't go down this road. You are walking an absurdly fine line when you call applicants to "gauge" interest but are trying not to cross the line of "pressuring" them into telling you where they are ranking you. A skilled PD might be able to do this without coming close to breaking the rules, but it sounds like the program is enlisting various interns to do this, perhaps without training them to do it. It's really dangerous to put your program in the hands of various interns, who may not know the rules, may not have the wherewithal to avoid the pitfalls, and are doing this on top of a heavy sleep depriving workload. Really bad idea. A smart program wouldn't do this.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
The match is a game like dating...no one wants to say "I love you" until they are reasonably certain the other person will say it back otherwise, you can get hurt, ie programs don't want to fill up the top of their rank list with people they love, who don't love them back. Could end up unfilled.
So if you like a place, (even a little bit) it is in your best interest to call back and say something like, "thanks so much for the call. I don't have any more questions right now, but I am still very interested in your program and would love to work with you in the summer"

A program won't end up unfilled by not playing the dating game and trying to find out where they stand with top applicants. What they will have to do is rank more people. I see no downside to this, while the downside to having interns push the envelope in terms of pressuring applicants is that the program could get investigated/put on probation. Programs like this want to not have to rank many people to fill. But you can't always do this and stay within the rules. And when you enlist people to make phone calls, they'd better realize they are agents of the program and can land the program in hot water with their words as surely as the PD could. I suspect most programs who do this don't appreciate this risk, or have a weak understanding of the rules.

 

[njbmd]

Has anyone received a phone call from an intern at a program? I have read about people getting calls from PD's, APD's and chiefs, but I haven't come across any comments about interns calling to answer questions about a program. Is this still a good sign? The program I was contacted by is one that I plan on ranking in my top 3, so should I return the call and ask a question although I don't really have one? If I don't call back, will that make me look disinterested and possibly affect my ranking? Thanks for the opinions and advice. Good luck everybody! 🙂

The best way to show your interest in a program is to rank them highly on your rank list. If you don't have any additional questions, then don't make/return any phone calls. This has nothing to do with showing or not showing interest. You accepted the interview invitation (shows interest) and you answered the questions that you were asked during that interview. If you were not interested in the program, you would not have accepted the interview or even applied to the program.

You don't have to return phone calls if you don't have a reason to return a phone call. If you have a question (and why would you not get your questions answered during the interview), then return the call and ask it. Otherwise, fill out your rank list and leave well enough alone.

 

[Doowai]

Yeah I got an email and a call (left message) in the last 2 days from my favorite program. I am surprised as it is one that has been mentioned very favorably on forums recently and in the past, by other residents and candidates. I am surprised because of my history. The call and email did not mention any specific rank , but did clearly pretty much say I was in. I was jazzed as it is one mentioned quite a few times here as being a popular program for people wanting to match and who are in residency now.

I already let them know they were at the top, and plan to do so again. I say let them know. It IS like dating. Girls like compliments - I don't think you can compliment them too much. Girls like attention - can't show them too much attention. And like a date - the best way to control a conversation is to ask questions - but if you have no questions just let them talk.

So what the heck - no question????? well then just call and let them talk - which they will do. They won't let there be dead time on the phone if you call. If they are interested in you and really know you by name, - then if you call they will be more than willing to just talk. No need to play games : I like you, you like me, lets get going.

When I prematched to a residency previously, the PD and I talked on the phone a couple of times and emailed many times. Much of it had nothing to do with residency or medicine - it was about sports, people we knew, weather and other crap. It was just schmoozing. It was just saying "I like you". Of course I am talking about general medicine - not dermatology or other highly competitive programs.

 

[Salsero]

So I went ahead and thought of some questions and returned the phone call the next day, but I got noone. I left a message thanking him/her for the call and my phone number in order for them to reach me. It has been a couple of days now and the person has not called back. What do I do? Do I wait or should I call back early next week? The plot thickens....

 

[missense]

i think your return call was courteous enough and leaving a message was smart (so they know you took the time to call back), no need to take any further actions with the phone tag game (of course, unless they call you again)

good luck to you 🙂

 

[Salsero]

The phone call was returned....But no mention of where I stand. Just a "we hope you come here" from the nice intern. Oh well. They're still goin' in my top 3 🙂