Calling all Canadians studying in the US

[hp540]

A little background: I'm going through the application process right now and have been fortunate to have been accepted by a few excellent US Medical Schools (Case Western and Dartmouth).

However, what I'm worried about is: if I decide to study in the US and want to continue my residency training in the US, how difficult will this be as a Canadian citizen?

I know residency spots are competitive, but how much of an issue is it if I was interested in moderately to highly competitive specialties? Are programs just going to show me the door because they don't want to bother with the H1B paperwork? Does being a Canadian citizen (rather than an international from other contries) help in some way?

I would really appreciate any current Canadian medical students input (whether on this thread on through PM). Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[M.Furfur]

I am in the same situation as you. I will be joining MSU CHM this August. I have been doing my research on the subject and things doesn't look too easy. If you are planning to do internal medicine it won't be a problem, many good schools are willing to sponsor you for H1B . On top of that you can spend a year on OPT status which will give you time to write step 3. However there is a problem: those schools might not be as willing to sponsor you for H1B when you decide to do a competitive fellowship like cardio or GI.
The other problem is that if you are married (like me) your wife won't be able to work at all no matter what the circumstances are.

You probably know enough about the J-1 route, Health Canada will only issue a statement of need for few specialties. J-1 waiver jobs are getting harder and harder to come by and on top of that, the person in charge of that program at health Canada is extremely rude and unhelpful (but that's only my personal experience).

 

[hp540]

That's sort of what I'm worried about.

I don't like the idea of the J-1 waiver route because it means you have to go BACK to Canada and the Canadian gov't will toss you into some sort of underserved area. No thanks.

If I go the US route, I'm leaving the Canadian medical system for good. It honestly seems like there's very little information about how willing residency programs (whether IM, emerg, or whatever specialty) are willing to sponsor Canadian students who have graduated from US medical schools with the H1B since there appears to be VERY FEW of us.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I can answer this as far as Internal Medicine is concerned.

As a canadian citizen in a US school, I expect your chances of getting a competitive US residency spot are basically equal to a US citizen. The ERAS software (that's how you apply to residencies, similar to AMCAS) allows us to filter material we don't want to see -- I actually filter citizenship and visa requests as it's illegal to make hiring decisions based on these. Perhaps the most competitive programs might care, and perhaps there's some PD out there who was treated badly at the Canadian Border or simply can't stand that the Canadiens sometimes beat the Bruins, and holds that against you -- but that's unlikely.

As mentioned above, you'll be able to transition your F visa to an OPT status, and then to an H1b visa. The H1b is good for 6 years which can be a problem -- 3 years for IM and 3 years for Cards = 6 years, but that leaves no time for an interventional or EP fellowship.

As an H1b holder, any dependents would be on an H4 and completely forbidden to work. You would be able to moonlight, however (unlike the J visa). A spouse could potentially apply for their own visa, if they qualified for one.

Bottom line: You will match equivalently to your US colleagues. You spouse will be unable to work on an F-2 or H-4 visa. You should be able to get an H1b without much difficulty. You can transition this into a green card if you do it right. You will be able to return to Canada to work, although you might need to take the Canadian board exams (apparently this is province dependent). You should figure out if you would need to take the licensing exams (MCQEE and all that jazz). If so, better to take them in step with the USMLE's. You will qualify to enter CaRMS if you want (the canadian match), but you cannot match in both systems -- whichever one comes first, will withdraw you from the other if you match.

 

[M.Furfur]

The J-1 statement of need thing with health Canada is discriminatory and unfair. I
Staying in the states is the only viable option for us as there is no way on earth we will be able to pay 250k in debts out of a job in Canada.

The plan would be sending like 500 emails in the 2nd year to inquire which residencies and fellowships are willing to sponsor an international student for H1B. Then plan your electives accordingly.
You also want to do some electives in Canada and apply to both matches, try to research the historically unfilled positions after the first round. Do your electives there and apply and then after you are done you can go back and work in the states.

 

[M.Furfur]

As mentioned above, you'll be able to transition your F visa to an OPT status, and then to an H1b visa. The H1b is good for 6 years which can be a problem -- 3 years for IM and 3 years for Cards = 6 years, but that leaves no time for an interventional or EP fellowship.

Will that Cardiology program have to sponsor you again? or will the original IM program sponsor you for all the 6 years?
I was originally told that doing a fellowship on H1B is a major disadvantage because many of the programs willing to sponsor for IM are not willing to do it for the fellowship.

 

[M.Furfur]

As an H1b holder, any dependents would be on an H4 and completely forbidden to work. You would be able to moonlight, however (unlike the J visa). A spouse could potentially apply for their own visa, if they qualified for one.

I'm sorry but I have yet another question. If I have an F1 will my wife be able to separately apply for a F1 if she wants to do a Phd in the States and if we can prove that we can actually afford it? Will she also be able to apply separately for a TN visa (if Im on f1 ) if she wants to work based upon her own qualifications? (she will be an epidimiologist which will qualify her to work in the states under a TN visa)

 

[jshcan]

Will that Cardiology program have to sponsor you again? or will the original IM program sponsor you for all the 6 years?
I was originally told that doing a fellowship on H1B is a major disadvantage because many of the programs willing to sponsor for IM are not willing to do it for the fellowship.

i'm not sure if that is true or not. i think that if you do your IM at a place that sponsored you for the h1-b, then you can continue on the same h1-b at another institution and have the h1 transferred to the new institution. my understanding is that the h1-b is good for 3 years, after which is needs to be renewed for another 3 years anyway, whether by the same institution or a different one.
also, if you are already part of an institution on an h1-b for residency, it is much easier to get this stuff done for subsequent fellowship, because the visa sponsorship is generally not done by the individual departments but by an immigration office or gme office of that hospital (at least that's what i have found in my experience). thus the department and fellowship selection committee are generally not involved in this visa stuff unless you need their help. even further, it is often much easier to stay on for fellowship at the institution you did your residency in, because everyone knows you and hopefully likes you. much the same for med school and then staying on for residency at the same place.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Will that Cardiology program have to sponsor you again? or will the original IM program sponsor you for all the 6 years?
I was originally told that doing a fellowship on H1B is a major disadvantage because many of the programs willing to sponsor for IM are not willing to do it for the fellowship.

I'm sorry but I have yet another question. If I have an F1 will my wife be able to separately apply for a F1 if she wants to do a Phd in the States and if we can prove that we can actually afford it? Will she also be able to apply separately for a TN visa (if Im on f1 ) if she wants to work based upon her own qualifications? (she will be an epidimiologist which will qualify her to work in the states under a TN visa)

An H1b visa is good for 3 years. It can be renewed once, hence the 6 year limit.

As jshcan mentions, the visa is usually sponsored by the GME office, not the residency itself. However, in a small community hospital they might be one and the same. If you stay at the same program for your fellowship, then your visa basically stays the same. If you move to a new program, your visa needs to be transferred. Transferring an H visa is much easier than getting a new one.

Will fellowships accept an H1b in transfer? Hard to tell. Between a J and an H, I expect fellowships would favor the H -- although H visas are more complicated, any fellowship that has been "screwed" by a fellow on a J accepting a J waiver position and dropping out will think twice about J visas in the future. I think the more relevant question is whether Cardiology fellowships will avoid all residents requiring a visa, given the competition and number of US candidates wanting spots. I don't know the question to that one.

As far as your wife is concerned, she is welcome to apply for her own visa rather than getting an F2/H4. You'll need to talk to a visa lawyer about it, as the rules are very complicated. This is one of the few ways that a J visa is better than an H visa -- the dependent J-2 visa is a work visa (although the J-2 holder cannot make more money than the J-1).