Calling all Canadians

[The Pill Counter]

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Now we know the dire situation facing those of us studying outside of North America, and everyone we speak to says 'head State-side' but looking over the CaRMS match results, it seems some do manage to snag a spot, albeit in mainstream programs

Year # of IMGs in match # Matched %

2002 496 83 16.7

2001 387 60 15.5

2000 294 39 13.3

1999 231 35 15.2

1998 205 19 9.3

1997 208 16 8.0

1996 236 11 4.6

1995 240 23 9.6







Match Results of International Medical Graduates
in the Second Iteration - 2002 Match
by Discipline

Anatomical Path 4 Obstetrics/Gynecology 7
Community Medicine 2 Occupational Medicine 2
Family Medicine 47 Pediatrics 2
General Pathology 2 Psychiatry 7
Internal Medicine 8 Radiation Oncology 1
Neurosurgery 1
Total 83


Someone even got neurosurg and last year a few got general surgery. Ontario has their ******ed OMIG program that makes you do over final year, but if you were like the many Canadians in Ireland and Australia, I assume you could get a spot in one of the other provinces?
Does anyone have any experiences about applying to Canada from Ireland or Aus? Does anyone plan on doing it?
Let us know...

 

[Thewonderer]

I posted the following in another thread already....


Something interesting I heard from a resident a couple weeks ago....

So I met a resident in internal medicine in the elevator the other day and she had a McGill pin on her white coat. Me, after having visited McGill like 6-7 times before, quickly fixated my eyes on the pin and started a conversation with her, asking about working visa in the US, etc. But unfortunately, she could not really answer my question because she had already been married to an American at the time she came down to the US for residency. So her situation did not apply to me.

However, she later asked me if I am thinking about going back to Canada for residency later on after graduating from my American med school. I was like, "only slightly, because no Canadian program will take me" (or at least, I don't want to feel like second-class citizen, even though I am Canadian, having to match in the second itinerary). Surprisingly, she said that that might not be the case. She is not 100% for sure, but apparently, at McGill, they supposedly (this is a hearsay of course because she is in internal med and was not interested in ortho at all back then) have 4 Orthopedic spots available for American/international graduates and yet only 1 ortho spot available for the rest of Canadian grads to fight over (again, so that McGill can continue to spread its reputation in the US when these residents move on later). She then said, the bottomline is to call up every residency director whose program you are interested in, and verify how you will proceed in the match (or like in McGill case, is there any spot set aside for you already). So maybe, not all is lost after all! Of course, I cannot prove her story to be 100% true and I am too lazy to actually call residency directors up on my precious vacation time. But there could also be spots OUTSIDE the match for people to grab. On the other hand though, McGill is an anomaly among the Canadian schools in many ways

 

[GCS:3]

I know an American resident in Internal med here. Graduated from UMich, and going back South for a hemonc fellowship. As for Ortho, I think it will be pretty tough, as the "international spots" in a lot of McGill residencies are tied up with contractual agreements with countries such as Saudi Arabia. SA's government pays the resident's salary (and maybe a bit to McGill as well), and McGill effectively gets free labor. Probably not impossible to get a spot, but I'd definitely call around to get the whole story.

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by GCS:3
I know an American resident in Internal med here. Graduated from UMich, and going back South for a hemonc fellowship. As for Ortho, I think it will be pretty tough, as the "international spots" in a lot of McGill residencies are tied up with contractual agreements with countries such as Saudi Arabia. SA's government pays the resident's salary (and maybe a bit to McGill as well), and McGill effectively gets free labor. Probably not impossible to get a spot, but I'd definitely call around to get the whole story.

Your explanation sounds plausible!

Are you a Canadian or American? In 3rd year of med school?

Cheers!

 

[GCS:3]

I'm an American in my 3rd year. Planning on heading back stateside for residency. You?

 

[The Pill Counter]

McGill's a special case, they don't take American or International applicants through the Match. There is an intake system for American citizens called the American Quota and you apply directly to them. I don't know if you'd qualify Wonderer, as it says 'American medical graduate...who is an American citizen' , unless you're an American as well? I'm in the process of trying to get some info from their postgrad office about non-North American grads.

American grads may be second class, but they're still infinitely better off than non-North American grads. With the growing culture of Canadians heading off to Ireland and Australia, I'd be great to hear of their experiences with the match, if they have tried to gain Canadian residency spots.

 

[Thewonderer]

Is the American Quota written anywhere on the web? I did not know that such a thing exists (other than what the resident told me).

I am a Canadian who is studying in an US med school. Nope, I don't have either American greencard or citizenship. So that will cause a hassle later on when I need a job visa during residency. But most likely, I will stay in the states for residency regardless. Back then I was debating between doing med school in Canada v.s. US. There is a working visa advantage for people graduating from American med school as opposed to Canadian med school (this would not apply to Americans since they don't need "working visa" to work in the US). So I chose the US med school and this is kind of like, once you choose a path, you just have to go straight down that road to the end.

Part of my concern back then was also that specialty spots are very limited in Canada due to government regulation and emphasis on primary care. I did not want to have my future specialty choices limited. In the US, every med school would have somebody (whether as few as one or two) match into every specialty, regardless of how competitive the field is. However, that does not seem to be the case for Canadian med schools simply because specialty spots are limited. For instance, with only 5 derm and 14 ENT spots every year across the country, not every school can afford to send one person into that field. Furthermore, the match stats does not suggest that there is a superstar school in Canada that would give you a definitive advantage in the match. In the US, there are some schools with the necessary reputation to work the match to your advantage.


http://www.carms.ca/stats/stats_index.htm

 

[The Pill Counter]

I've looked into McGill for you Wonderer. As odd as it sounds, your case is the only one not considered by them. They have space for Americans in America, foreigners, Canadians at other Canadian med schools, but not Canadians in America.

McGill Applicant Info

 

[Thewonderer]

Hi The Pill Counter,
You are VERY good at finding stuff on the internet. Those are excellent and interesting info. Thanks a bunch! That will also allow me to clarify the situation to my McGill-trained resident when I bump into her in the hallway next time.

I took a look at it, and it appears that Canadian grads from Canadian med school or US LCME-approved schools will be in the same category, under the regular entries category on that website. So that will be through the CaRMS. The only question is "would Canadians grads from US LCME-approved schools be automically dropped to secondary itinerary?" The CaRMS website indicates that such decision will be up to the individual residency director. But dropping Canadian grads from US med schools into the second iteration might be the norm rather than the exception.

http://www.carms.ca/procedure/us_students.htm

nevertheless, all of these are interesting stuff. It is not as straight forward as most people thought it was (as the plot thickens......).

 

[warpath]

I actually emailed CaRMS some time ago, when I was getting worried about going to an american school. They told me that people who graduate from any LCME-accredited school can enter the 1st round of the match.

 

[The Pill Counter]

Not so - from their website:

Each year, approximately 1,400 Canadian medical school students participate in the First Iteration Match. In addition, 700 "independent" applicants compete for the approximately 200 positions available in the Second Iteration Match. Independent applicants include former graduates of Canadian medical schools, U.S students, and graduates of international medical schools

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by The Pill Counter
Not so - from their website:

Each year, approximately 1,400 Canadian medical school students participate in the First Iteration Match. In addition, 700 "independent" applicants compete for the approximately 200 positions available in the Second Iteration Match. Independent applicants include former graduates of Canadian medical schools, U.S students, and graduates of international medical schools

I will take the middle route.

The way I read it is that US students and IMG's are both eligible to match in the first iteration but depending on how the program directors rank you, most likely you will drop to the second iteration.

 

[The Pill Counter]

bump

 

[G]

about the ortho position at mcgill, i am currently at usc and i remember that one of the profs told us about a student who was matched to ortho at mcgill last year.