Can a controversial business I started affect my application?

[Buckminsterfool]

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Hello SDN,

I was wondering if anybody had some input to offer on an issue I am currently dealing with. I run a small business operation wherein undergraduate students send me essay prompts and I basically provide them with the papers, that they are meant to later reference when they write their own papers. I am legally protected from their plagiarism through contracts. I do know that many of these students submit these papers as their own. A friend in another state told me that they heard about this service I provide in his school, and that I should be careful, since this business may get me blacklisted from medical schools. I am nervous, but at the same time, I am not doing anything illegal. What advice do you have for me? I want to continue my business and make money, but I don't want to run the risk of getting blacklisted from medical schools, if that is an option. Also, I am very proud of this business, I put in a lot of work and have people that work for me. It is a point of achievement, and i'd like to be able to talk about it to medical schools too. What do you think?

 

[Patassa]

Replace that "friend". You're fine, keep truckin.

 

[darkjedi]

I think it could rub people the wrong way and it would depend on the person. You would be taking a risk in telling interviewers the full story.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

At the very least, knowingly enabling plagiarism seems morally questionable. That might be problematic.

 

[hubriz]

*

 

[Patassa]

At the very least, knowingly enabling plagiarism seems morally questionable. That might be problematic.

This is like saying a clerk at *a department store that sells guns* is knowingly enabling a murder.

Lots of products that were designed for good are used for harm. The OP isn't responsible for other people being immoral.

 

[chillaxbro]

Would you write a prescription for a patient who needs medication but you knew he always sold the pills illegally?

 

[Patassa]

Would you write a prescription for a patient who needs medication but you knew he always sold the pills illegally?

This isn't even close to the same scenario.

 

[hubriz]

*

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

This is like saying a clerk at Academy is knowingly enabling murder.

Lots of products that were designed for good are used for harm. The OP isn't responsible for other people being immoral.

I don't know what the bolded part means, but he stated that he knows that people turn in his work as their own. To use your murder analogy, that's like a potential gun buyer telling the shop owner that he intends to kill someone after buying the gun. Not morally justified to make the sale at that point.

Just don't reveal the details and you should be fine, op.

 

[Patassa]

I think the proper analogy would be, would you write a prescription for patients even though you know that some of them will sell them illegally. I would, because it's the right thing to do.

Bingo. 👍

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

lol at writing papers for people expecting them to "reference" them when they right their own paper. Did you actually believe this?

 

[Patassa]

I don't know what the bolded part means, but he stated that he knows that people turn in his work as their own. To use your murder analogy, that's like a potential gun buyer telling the shop owner that he intends to kill someone after buying the gun. Not morally justified to make the sale at that point.

Just don't reveal the details and you should be fine, op.

It's not hard to understand. I'm confused about what you could possibly be confused about. Academy, the store, they sell guns there.

You seem to be implying that the OP is informed by his purchasers that they intend to plagiarize before they buy his product. I did not make that assumption and certainly didn't read the OP to be saying that.

OP, can you clarify?

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

It's not hard to understand. I'm confused about what you could possibly be confused about. Academy, the store, they sell guns there.

OP, can you clarify?

Just Googled it. Not everybody's from Texas. I thought it was a Harry Potter reference or something.

 

[Patassa]

Just Googled it. Not everybody's from Texas The South. I thought it was a Harry Potter reference or something.

Ha, sorry.

We don't call them potters anymore, we call them plant and soil engineers. How they handle their body hair is their business.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

It's not hard to understand. I'm confused about what you could possibly be confused about. Academy, the store, they sell guns there.

You seem to be implying that the OP is informed by his purchasers that they intend to plagiarize before they buy his product. I did not make that assumption and certainly didn't read the OP to be saying that.

OP, can you clarify?

They don't have Academy gun shops where I live. I have never heard of that store. It was confusing.

OP owns a business that provides essays of topics the customers have prompts from which to compose essays. What purpose would these papers serve aside from plagiarism?

The prescribing meds to someone even though some people might sell those meds analogy is poor. A better one is the OP is running an unscrupulous pain clinic that doesn't do random drug screens that also prescribes narcotics to known abusers with past histories of selling their meds.

 

[Patassa]

OP owns a business that provides essays of topics the customers have prompts from which to compose essays. What purpose would these papers serve aside from plagiarism?

Did you look at examples of personal statements before you wrote one?
Ever experienced writers block?
Need to see an example to spur on your creativity?
Don't have the time or resources to do your own research into a topic?

The prescribing meds to someone even though some people might sell those meds analogy is poor. A better one is the OP is running an unscrupulous pain clinic that doesn't do random drug screens that also prescribes narcotics to known abusers with past histories of selling their meds.

We're going off the rails with these analogies.

 

[knv2u]

Hello SDN,

I was wondering if anybody had some input to offer on an issue I am currently dealing with. I run a small business operation wherein undergraduate students send me essay prompts and I basically provide them with the papers, that they are meant to later reference when they write their own papers. I am legally protected from their plagiarism through contracts. I do know that many of these students submit these papers as their own. A friend in another state told me that they heard about this service I provide in his school, and that I should be careful, since this business may get me blacklisted from medical schools. I am nervous, but at the same time, I am not doing anything illegal. What advice do you have for me? I want to continue my business and make money, but I don't want to run the risk of getting blacklisted from medical schools, if that is an option. Also, I am very proud of this business, I put in a lot of work and have people that work for me. It is a point of achievement, and i'd like to be able to talk about it to medical schools too. What do you think?

I see it as a question of character and fitness, and yes, I can see it being enough to get you blacklisted from a medical school. If I was an adcom, I would outright reject you for something like that.

Edited: And for those claiming that there could be legitimate applications, the OP knows or clearly should know that a good number of his clients are likely using it for a nefarious purpose.

 

[knv2u]

Would you write a prescription for a patient who needs medication but you knew he always sold the pills illegally?

👍

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Keeping it real, if I were ADCOM, you would be an auto-reject. Yes, your business is not illegal, but you know damn that you're enabling cheating the system. I would fear someone like you would find a hole in medicine to exploit for profit.

 

[Planes2Doc]

My rule of thumb: If you have to ask on a forum, then there's something wrong with it.

I actually have a friend that does this as one of her jobs. People consider this to be cheating. So I wouldn't list it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

They don't have Academy gun shops where I live. I have never heard of that store. It was confusing.

OP owns a business that provides essays of topics the customers have prompts from which to compose essays. What purpose would these papers serve aside from plagiarism?

The prescribing meds to someone even though some people might sell those meds analogy is poor. A better one is the OP is running an unscrupulous pain clinic that doesn't do random drug screens that also prescribes narcotics to known abusers with past histories of selling their meds.

Exactly, the person you were responding to basically was playing the old lawyer game, but we'll be physicians. We don't need to adhere to bull**** technicalities when the intention is obvious.

 

[knv2u]

They don't have Academy gun shops where I live. I have never heard of that store. It was confusing.

OP owns a business that provides essays of topics the customers have prompts from which to compose essays. What purpose would these papers serve aside from plagiarism?

The prescribing meds to someone even though some people might sell those meds analogy is poor. A better one is the OP is running an unscrupulous pain clinic that doesn't do random drug screens that also prescribes narcotics to known abusers with past histories of selling their meds.

I don't see any problems with the analogy. The issue is that the OP is providing a service which he knows will be abused in the vast majority of cases.

It's not hard to understand. I'm confused about what you could possibly be confused about. Academy, the store, they sell guns there.

You seem to be implying that the OP is informed by his purchasers that they intend to plagiarize before they buy his product. I did not make that assumption and certainly didn't read the OP to be saying that.

OP, can you clarify?

At best, assuming that one is naive, it is enough to question the OP's judgment. This alone is enough for a rejection IMO.

 

[Patassa]

Exactly, the person you were responding to basically was playing the old lawyer game, but we'll be physicians. We don't need to adhere to bullcrap technicalities when the intention is obvious.

Yeah that was me, and I don't know much about lawyer games. These "bullcrap" technicalities are what keep some MDs out of jail.
You're going to stop prescribing pain pills to everyone because you're pretty sure you know a few of them are abusing it?

No?

Cool, maybe the lawyers will argue that you knew you were doing harm to your patients because you had a pretty good idea some were abusing it.

You guys enjoy your slippery slope though.

 

[Patassa]

The issue is that the OP is providing a service which he knows will be abused in the vast majority of cases.

You're projecting and you're also confusing what you believe with what you know.

 

[knv2u]

It's not hard to understand. I'm confused about what you could possibly be confused about. Academy, the store, they sell guns there.

You seem to be implying that the OP is informed by his purchasers that they intend to plagiarize before they buy his product. I did not make that assumption and certainly didn't read the OP to be saying that.

OP, can you clarify?

Yeah that was me, and I don't know much about lawyer games. These "bullcrap" technicalities are what keep some MDs out of jail.
You're going to stop prescribing pain pills to everyone because you're pretty sure you know a few of them are abusing it?

No?

Cool, maybe the lawyers will argue that you knew you were doing harm to your patients because you had a pretty good idea some were abusing it.

You guys enjoy your slippery slope though.

There is no slippery slope. If you believe that your patient is a drug peddler, then you have the absolute right and legal obligation to refuse to prescribe the medications. In this case, there is no law that precludes the OP's actions, but it is clear that in 99% of the cases, it will be misused. You would be incorrect to assume that 99% of your patients are going to abuse their drugs unless you are a mediocre doctor and not observant.

 

[Patassa]

but it is clear that in 99% of the cases, it will be misused.

You have data to back up this claim? If not, this is complete BS and your own objectivity and bias needs examining.

 

[knv2u]

You're projecting and you're also confusing what believe with what you know.

You have data to back up this claim? If not, this is complete BS and your own objectivity and bias needs examining.

Medicine, science, and the law are all about probabilities and statistics. You know that the probability is high that this will be abused in a good number of cases (how many would pay for such an essay otherwise)? We could conduct a study if it would make you feel better. This is not a criminal trial, and there is no maxim that you must be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If the OP cannot see the problem, I would question his judgment as a future physician.

 

[Patassa]

Medicine, science, and the law are all about probabilities and statistics.

They are also about accurate data and objective analysis. Not about wide sweeping generalizations and conjecture.

 

[terp720]

Did you look at examples of personal statements before you wrote one?
Ever experienced writers block?
Need to see an example to spur on your creativity?
Don't have the time or resources to do your own research into a topic?

Up until that last one, I could see as legitimate uses. That last one though, I think most would consider cheating..

 

[hubriz]

They are also about accurate data and objective analysis. Not about wide sweeping generalizations and conjecture.

Agreed - conclusions based on a speculated odds are fatal to any argument. And, of course, if one is to argue the merit of using probabilities and statistics, it should go without saying that one should have an appreciation and fidelity for the numbers used. In other words, don't make up a statistic to qualify your own argument.

90% of the time statistics are improperly applied, which is why I never trust them. <--- see what I did there.

 

[Patassa]

Up until that last one, I could see as legitimate uses. That last one though, I think most would consider cheating..

scrub

 

[terp720]

Reading the entry on Wikipedia vs. reading a paper someone wrote on the topic who may have read 20 books on the topic, is what I had in mind. Reading the paper is still doing some research, but it's doing it efficiently, this is common practice in academia. Read others' dissertations.

okay well I don't know anyone who says to use Wiki as your primary research tool..
Um no, paying to have someone write a paper that you can then use to write your own is not common practice in academia. This is not the same as reading dissertations and peer-reviewed papers to support your research.

 

[Doudline]

Whether you are legally protected or not, your "business" is going to come off as morally reprehensible to the vast majority of people.

 

[Patassa]

n/m, waste of time.

Good luck, OP.

 

[terp720]

I have no idea why you wrote this.
Cool, that's not what I said.
This whole post was a straw man.

lol all of those quotes are in response to what you said. I only brought up wikipedia because you used it as an example, and it's not even a good example of research for a paper.

Reading the paper is still doing some research, but it's doing it efficiently, this is common practice in academia. Reading others' dissertations instead of plowing through libraries to inform your own position.

You are the one that said this is common practice in academia. But since we're talking about students using a paper they paid for as the basis of their research, it's not.

Not sure how my post doesn't convey that.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Yeah that was me, and I don't know much about lawyer games. These "bullcrap" technicalities are what keep some MDs out of jail.
You're going to stop prescribing pain pills to everyone because you're pretty sure you know a few of them are abusing it?

No?

Cool, maybe the lawyers will argue that you knew you were doing harm to your patients because you had a pretty good idea some were abusing it.

You guys enjoy your slippery slope though.

Yeah, it keeps them out of jail. That's legal stuff. We are talking about admissions.

Your prescription argument doesn't even hold up as an analogy, so I don't even know what to say to that.

 

[hubriz]

Whether you are legally protected or not, your "business" is going to come off as morally reprehensible to the vast majority of people.

Do you mean ethically reprehensible. OP - I hope you remain anonymous, otherwise you better start carrying a weapon or taking self defense classes.

 

[Patassa]

Up until that last one, I could see as legitimate uses. That last one though, I think most would consider cheating..

It was a poor example. Fair enough.

 

[Doudline]

Do you mean ethically reprehensible. OP - I hope you remain anonymous, otherwise you better start carrying a weapon or taking self defense classes.

Well, that too, but I do believe that someone who creates a business like that has very little moral sense.
Personal opinion.

 

[Patassa]

Yeah, it keeps them out of jail. That's legal stuff. We are talking about admissions.

It also keeps them prescribing to the ones who need it. That's practical stuff. We're talking about admissions again? I can't keep track with all these analogies.

Your prescription argument doesn't even hold up as an analogy, so I don't even know what to say to that.

I also don't know what to say.

If you want to throw the book at someone because they know some, but not necessarily who, might abuse something they are providing then you might find that book being thrown at you.

 

[hubriz]

Hello SDN,

I was wondering if anybody had some input to offer on an issue I am currently dealing with. I run a small business operation wherein undergraduate students send me essay prompts and I basically provide them with the papers, that they are meant to later reference when they write their own papers. I am legally protected from their plagiarism through contracts. I do know that many of these students submit these papers as their own. A friend in another state told me that they heard about this service I provide in his school, and that I should be careful, since this business may get me blacklisted from medical schools. I am nervous, but at the same time, I am not doing anything illegal. What advice do you have for me? I want to continue my business and make money, but I don't want to run the risk of getting blacklisted from medical schools, if that is an option. Also, I am very proud of this business, I put in a lot of work and have people that work for me. It is a point of achievement, and i'd like to be able to talk about it to medical schools too. What do you think?

OP - do you do Personal Statements and responses to secondary applications. If so, PM me. Just kidding.

 

[aspirantmed]

I'd be super, super careful about how I worded it to medical schools. You could say that you are a for-hire "research consultant" or something .. and not mention the part about plagiarism being even a foreseeable consequence of your business.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It also keeps them prescribing to the ones who need it. That's practical stuff. We're talking about admissions again? I can't keep track with all these analogies.


I also don't know what to say.

If you want to throw the book at someone because they know some, but not necessarily who, might abuse something they are providing then you might find that book being thrown at you.

I want to throw the book at the guy because even he admits that the business is controversial and people plagiarize. You have to be rather slow not to understand the purpose of the business. Everyone that opens one of these places knows what market they are exploiting.

 

[DokterMom]

Hello SDN,

I was wondering if anybody had some input to offer on an issue I am currently dealing with. I run a small business operation wherein undergraduate students send me essay prompts and I basically provide them with the papers, that they are meant to later reference when they write their own papers. I am legally protected from their plagiarism through contracts. I do know that many of these students submit these papers as their own. A friend in another state told me that they heard about this service I provide in his school, and that I should be careful, since this business may get me blacklisted from medical schools. I am nervous, but at the same time, I am not doing anything illegal. What advice do you have for me? I want to continue my business and make money, but I don't want to run the risk of getting blacklisted from medical schools, if that is an option. Also, I am very proud of this business, I put in a lot of work and have people that work for me. It is a point of achievement, and i'd like to be able to talk about it to medical schools too. What do you think?

Ethically, a very dubious enterprise, no matter how you 'spin' it.

You know your work is widely misused, so I think the 'prescribing pills to probable addicts/resellers' is a very apt analogy.

If I were on an AdCom, I would try to keep you out of medicine. The harm you could (and from your history, likely would) do there is great.

I really hope you're trolling

 

[corndogger]

Make it front and center in your application. If you have no problem with it and believe you're providing a valuable service, then put it on your application.

Just make sure you are honest about what you do. Don't put "Paid tutoring" or something, because that is absolutely not what it is. IMO, you should be honest with yourself about what you are actually doing. You are writing people's papers for them. Some of them might make some changes to it to make it more "believable", but the result is the same that they are paying you to help them cheat.

Having said that, I believe that the person who actually cheats is ultimately responsible. It's just a little scummy to help them along the way.

 

[aspirantmed]

Make it front and center in your application. If you have no problem with it and believe you're providing a valuable service, then put it on your application.

Just make sure you are honest about what you do. Don't put "Paid tutoring" or something, because that is absolutely not what it is. IMO, you should be honest with yourself about what you are actually doing. You are writing people's papers for them. Some of them might make some changes to it to make it more "believable", but the result is the same that they are paying you to help them cheat.

Having said that, I believe that the person who actually cheats is ultimately responsible. It's just a little scummy to help them along the way.

It really depends whether you want to know what the 'ethical' thing to do would be, or whether you want to put together an application that will get you into medical school. This is the kind of thing that would raise a red flag if you presented it this way in an interview. Know that, and proceed accordingly at your own risk.

 

[xffan624]

Up until that last one, I could see as legitimate uses. That last one though, I think most would consider cheating..

Yes and especially as the writer are supposed to reference all their sources. Are they planning on referencing this paid for paper?

It really depends whether you want to know what the 'ethical' thing to do would be, or whether you want to put together an application that will get you into medical school. This is the kind of thing that would raise a red flag if you presented it this way in an interview. Know that, and proceed accordingly at your own risk.

I think terp is being facetious. If OP really believes there's nothing wrong with his business then he should have no problem advertising it to ADCOM's. In general, I would say owning a business is a plus for an application. It shows initiative, self-motivation and understanding of business (which is actually important if OP would want to start his own practice). The reality is the fact that the OP has to ask shows that his business is shady and unethical, even if it is legal. If you want to actually go to medical school, I would not mention this at all on your application, most ADCOM's will not approve of this and it will be a red flag as they will wonder what technically legal, but unethical initiatives you will undertake at their school.

 

[edmadison]

In the early days of the Internet -- mid-90s, the US Attorney in NYC successfully prosecuted several businesses like the OP's using the wire fraud statute. They eventually got bored with the cases. Make a big enough splash and you'll get noticed, don't worry.

Ed

 

[knv2u]

They are also about accurate data and objective analysis. Not about wide sweeping generalizations and conjecture.

Call it what you will. This thread is soliciting opinions on the subject matter, and when multiple people have expressed similar views, what do you think the odds are that an admissions staff member will think the same? Medical schools receive a number of applications and need to weed through them; I would think this would make it easy for them to reject the OP without looking further. YMMV.