Can a semester of Physical Chemistry count as Physics II?

[Overachiever12]

I have noticed that a few med schools will not allow me to apply without finishing the physics prereq in the next six months. Considering my university only offers Physics II in the spring, this would not be a possible option for me. I think I might have a solution to this, but I just wanted to inquire with you all before contacting the medical schools with such a question:

I have not completed Physics II, but I received special permission to enroll in Physical Chemistry w/ Lab last semester from the chemistry department chair. The course included topics on electrostatics, kinetics, thermodynamics, and quantum mechanics. Looking at the syllabus from my university, I would say this course very effectively covered all of the topics in the Physics II course (even more so, considering it's an upper-level course with physics as a prerequisite). The only area that we did not cover in depth would be optics, but even this area came up occasionally in the laboratory course.

My question is, can this Physical Chemistry course potentially count as a Physics II course? I know it sounds a little bit ludicrous, but I would really like to have the opportunity to apply to the select few medical schools that have strict requirements on prerequisite completion.

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[correctlywrong]

Some schools will allow you to substitute a single course in the prereq sequence.

Others might just fail to notice the omission. I know a guy who got in despite never taking Organic II. He planned to take it spring of senior year, but didn't, and then worried they were going to rescind over it. He is a resident now, so it worked out.

However, the material taught in Physics II is not covered in Physical Chemistry. Can you take it at a community college? Half my classes at CC were kids from 4 year schools, who couldn't schedule things they needed any other way.

 

[AlexMack12]

Was this special permission to simply take the course, or special permission to substitute physical chemistry II for physics II in your major/degree requirements? If your school department can provide a letter certifying that these courses overlap so much that they accept Physical Chemistry II in lieu of Physics II, then you'd have a better argument to medical schools. Without such a letter, however, it would basically be asking medical schools to accept your assessment of the course (rather than the department offering it) as having enough overlap for one to count for the other. I have no doubt there IS significant overlap, but I've always found I've needed a letter from the school certifying a certain course can be swapped for another one due to the official designation of sufficient overlap, etc.
The reason for this is, every school and course varies to some extent. In my school, while physical chemistry II certainly utilized topics from both physics I and II, there is no way physical chemistry II could be counted as a physics II course. But in your school, it seems to be very different.

Nonetheless, this is all conjecture. It can't hurt to ask.

 

[Overachiever12]

I just realized the course I'm asking to replace Physics II was completed abroad. I think that eliminates all hopes of getting it approved as a substitute. I briefly forgot that courses completed abroad cannot satisfy premedical requirements.

I could take Physics II this summer at a CC, but I don't think it would be reasonable considering my undergrad does not accept transfer credit. This would just lead to me taking the same course twice, since Physics II is a requirement for the chemistry degree.

 

[Mad Jack]

Physical chemistry II is in no way a substitute for physics II.

I had to take general bio I+II, despite already haven taken A+P I+II, immunology, microbiology, and genetics thanks to most med school's inability to substitute coursework. Honestly I was better off for it both intellectually and come MCAT time, so I'd say the extra courses were with it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I just realized that the course I'm asking to replace Physics II was completed abroad. I think that eliminates all hopes of getting it approved as a substitute.

I could take Physics II this summer at a CC, but I don't think it would be reasonable considering my undergrad does not accept transfer credit. . This would just lead to me taking the same course twice.

Physical chemistry doesn't cover the same material as physics II. The idea b that it would is just ridiculous lol. You aren't taking the same course twice. Physical chemistry is a more advanced but more specialized course- you probably don't cover a lot of the annoying bits dealing with optics, quantum physics, etc.

 

[Overachiever12]

Physical chemistry doesn't cover the same material as physics II. The idea b that it would is just ridiculous lol. You aren't taking the same course twice. Physical chemistry is a more advanced but more specialized course- you probably don't cover a lot of the annoying bits dealing with optics, quantum physics, etc.

Some medical schools require "two semesters of physics" and others even say "two semesters of physical sciences". My question was rooting from the possibility that any two semesters of physics/physical sciences would qualify for this prerequisite, and I guess I should have made that more clear in my title.

For instance, I never took Chemistry 1 since I received AP credit. As a result, I had to take an upper-level course which would replace this requirement. Some of my non-science major peers that took the AP credit for chemistry decided to take Quantitative and Analytical Chemistry to replace Chem 1.

I was just going off of that theory. Analytical chemistry obviously does not cover the majority of the topics in Chem 1, but yet it serves as a substitute. That's why I was hoping that this might serve as a substitute, even though it does not completely cross with Physics II. I can certainly see how A&P would not serve as a substitute for biology, since at most universities, it is lower-level than general biology. However, I am a little shocked that genetics, microbio, and immunology did not serve as a substitute.

 

[Mad Jack]

Ah, makes much more sense. For those schools with strict requirements, it will not substitute. For the others, it depends. I'd really call the schools you are interested in, because this is a case-by-case thing. Some will just let it slide, but at others it will depend whether physical chemistry was coded as a chem course or a physics course in the syllabus. Your life will probably be less complicated if you just take Physics II though.

 

[Low Flow]

I'd go ahead and ask. Especially if you've already taken the MCAT (?). That's about the only time you'll deal with optics and electrostatics. Couldn't hurt to ask, even though they'll probably say no.

 

[zzxxzz]

PChem doesn't deal with people pushing boxes up ramps and cannons firing over cliffs.

You'll be screwed when you need to know that stuff in med school.

 

[gettheleadout]

PChem doesn't deal with people pushing boxes up ramps and cannons firing over cliffs.

Yeah but neither does Physics II (E&M). 😛

 

[iowaiowacity]

I <3 magnets.

 

[dechristine]

From your description of the pchem course, only electrostatics overlaps with physics II. Other physics II topics include magnetic fields, circuits, relating the electric and magnetic fields, and Maxwell's equations. Quantum mechanics and thermodynamics are two entirely different classes in the physics department.

Are there nearby universities that offer physics II in the summer? Could you possibly take the class online?

 

[Mad Jack]

You're fine, since PchemII topics match with Physics II requirements.



... what? Did you even read the OP?

The topics may be covered, but the main focus is their effect on chemistry, not in the physics concepts themselves.

http://faculty.smu.edu/whorsthe/pchem2.html

Above is typical material covered in a PChem II course. Sure, the physics is there, but it is tightly focused on specific phenomena.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-02-electricity-and-magnetism-spring-2002/lecture-notes/

Compare the material from the physics II course above, and you can clearly see that certain topics will be missed (capacitance and electric circuits for instance). I stand by the statement that his course is in no way a substitute for physics II, in the same way A+P is in no way a substitute for general bio.

 

[D4C]

Pchem is such a grueling class, they should let you switch it on principle 🙂.

 

[Psai]

Physics and physical chemistry are two completely different courses. One has you learning about optics, electrical fields, circuits while doing math with actual numbers. The other tells you that electrons can go into forbidden areas while you're looking at vibrational and rotational motion through absurd calculus equations using a smorgasbord of greek letters that you've never seen before in your life.

 

[Overachiever12]

Well, I just made the assumption that "two semesters of physics" meant two semesters of physics concepts above the 100-level. Medical schools don't state that the two semesters of physics should cover "optics, magnets, and Maxwell equations". So while Pchem II doesn't cover the majority, if much, of the Physics II concepts, my question was rooting from the possibility that it could count as an 'upper-level' physics course.

Since I've already taken the MCAT (twice) and have done 'okay' on PS both times, I was hoping that they would maybe allow me to slide on this requirement. But of course, there is probably only a very slim chance of this being approved.

 

[LMBLBM]

no

 

[JingleChips]

Physical chemistry II is in no way a substitute for physics II.

I had to take general bio I+II, despite already haven taken A+P I+II, immunology, microbiology, and genetics thanks to most med school's inability to substitute coursework. Honestly I was better off for it both intellectually and come MCAT time, so I'd say the extra courses were with it.

Just was reading and wanted to comment on this post. I took gen bio I, microbiology, 2 semesters of biochemistry and had AP credit that counted towards gen bio II. I did not take gen bio II. Every single school I applied to accepted my similar situation (25 schools) even if it said otherwise on their website. Many schools will say they require upper level bio courses if you take AP in order for it to count, or will say they don't accept AP but will accept 1 year of "biology with lab" - which includes any biology class with lab. Granted I had to call ~5 or so schools to confirm because their websites were vague, this is my experience in substituting coursework.

 

[Lawpy]

I fail to understand what's the issue here. Pchem can definitely substitute for physics 2 along with any upper level physics course. I doubt adcoms will be uptight for OP avoiding E&M that is dumbed down to such an inaccurate and flawed basics that anyone competent in physical sciences and engineering would despise and ridicule (ie describing vector fields without vector calculus).

 

[Prion13]

Just was reading and wanted to comment on this post. I took gen bio I, microbiology, 2 semesters of biochemistry and had AP credit that counted towards gen bio II. I did not take gen bio II. Every single school I applied to accepted my similar situation (25 schools) even if it said otherwise on their website. Many schools will say they require upper level bio courses if you take AP in order for it to count, or will say they don't accept AP but will accept 1 year of "biology with lab" - which includes any biology class with lab. Granted I had to call ~5 or so schools to confirm because their websites were vague, this is my experience in substituting coursework.

I did not even take a gen bio class nor did I have AP credit and just used my upper level bio courses and had no problem. Of course, it would have probably looked silly to deny a student with a biology major (gen bio was not a requirement for my major) admission due to lack of biology credit...

 

[gettheleadout]

I fail to understand what's the issue here. Pchem can definitely substitute for physics 2 along with any upper level physics course. I doubt adcoms will be uptight for OP avoiding E&M that is dumbed down to such an inaccurate and flawed basics that anyone competent in physical sciences and engineering would despise and ridicule (ie describing vector fields without vector calculus).

U mad?


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[Lawpy]

U mad?


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Boo. I gave you an opening!

But seriously, there's no reason for any med school to complain or denounce or reject that an applicant bypassed physics 2 with pchem or any upper level physics course. Heck, even a good MCAT completely overrides the need for any prereq.

But yeah, physics prereqs are a joke

 

[gettheleadout]

Boo. I gave you an opening!

I'm afraid I don't follow haha.

But seriously, there's no reason for any med school to complain or denounce or reject that an applicant bypassed physics 2 with pchem or any upper level physics course. Heck, even a good MCAT completely overrides the need for any prereq.

Gotta agree there haha.

But yeah, physics prereqs are a joke

Hey, some of us take the calc-based ones.

 

[Lawpy]

Hey, some of us take the calc-based ones.

You guys are the minority, but even then schools demand algebra-based version to be taken!

UCLA, other UCs and few weird ones won't be pleased with you guys exploiting loopholes!