Can civilians apply to military residency?

[Curiousforchange]

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I’ve been a long term SDN member. Went to medical school, graduated, started a gen surg residency program and was about a year left to graduate. They wanted me to spend an additional year in clinical training before graduating but I have a larger family now to take care of. Decided not to extend my contract.

I’m interested to see if I would qualify to apply for a military residency (I have no ROTC/HPSP). I tried looking this up but didn’t find much. I spoke to a recruiter that mentioned I could apply to ERAS and then contact him once I match into a military residency program. When I did some research I read that you can’t apply through ERAS but it was a different system

Does anyone have any experience with this by chance? I’m interested in applying to a non-surgical residency in the military. I’m open to all branches. Lastly, I’m assuming certain specialties would be out of the question like EM?

Would really appreciate some guidance on this. Thanks for your time

 

[SirGecko]

Yeah it sounds like that recruiter didn't really know what he was talking about. (shocking I know) Or maybe there was a miscommunication and he was telling you to contact him to join after you match another civilian residency. Military residencies aren't open for people outside of the military to apply for. In order to join the military as a physician you need an unrestricted license which I presume you have since you completed at least part of residency. I don't think there is really a mechanism for you to both join and apply for the match at the same time though so I would guess they would have to want to hire you as a GMO and then you would apply for the match after they release you from that job. (so likely 2-3 years later) That said maybe there is some way to accomplish getting into the military match sooner, I've just never heard of anyone doing that. (I honestly can't think of anyone I've ever met that joined to be a GMO as a non board eligible residency drop out either but it seems more likely they would exist or have existed in the past. I'd be curious to see if anyone actually knows someone like that)

I'm not sure this is really the path for you though if I'm being honest. This post seems to fall into a category of post we see kind of often where someone assumes that since either they didn't match what they wanted or failed out of civilian residency or some other flavor of falling short of their goals that the military training programs are some kind of backup. It really isn't. Programs are interested in matching residents that will succeed and if you are having trouble finishing medical training as a civilian the military isn't likely to be the answer to make it easier.

The way your post reads it sounds like you had a year left to complete residency and decided not to because your program wanted you to remediate for a year. This was, I am guessing, secondary to some performance issues? You then call out the need to take care of your family as reason to quit residency. Did you just decide surgery wasn't for you? No problem with that (I thank God every day I'm not a surgeon) but you should be trying to pivot to something that you actually want to do not just away from the thing you don't want to do. The military is also kind of known for putting strain of family life so if your family is really the reason you decided to stop residency I would ask why specifically are you looking to the military instead of matching to another civilian program?

 

[comp1]

It does indeed sound like the OP is in an extremely complicated situation as leaving any residency is almost never the way to go, no matter how long they want you to stay. I can't imagine the military would or could make this situation better.

 

[Curiousforchange]

Thanks for your responses. I, again, am pretty naive about this. I do have a fully unrestricted medical license. No red flags on my medical training. I just realized that a surgical career was something that I was not really hungry for after starting a family. I have pretty good grades, passed written boards during residency, have over 50+ publications. After having a family, I just didn't want to put myself through yet an additional year of surgical residency so I was not terminated, they offered me to extend my contract and I opted not to.

As far as the military, I have family that are currently in active duty and they mentioned that the military had several benefits. With daycare on the horizon for 4 kids, I find it overwhelming and thought the military would provide some stability.

Again, looking for some guidance and would appreciate advise from your experience. I believe I have no issues applying and likely going into another civilian residency won't be an issue but if I could have my family move/live with me economically, that would be ideal.

Appreciate any advice.

Thank you

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Honestly imo you made a terrible mistake not extending. Anyone with a decent mindset can stand almost anything for a year. You already spent most of a decade in training, what's another year? Very confusing decision-making tbh. I'd recommend talking to a therapist or similar to sort out whatever's going on in your head. I mean this in the kindest way possible and am not trying to call you stupid or crazy, but you have to admit it's a decision very few people would make.

 

[Curiousforchange]

Thanks for your input. Didn't extend not due to burnout but rather realizing that I wanted to practice more clinical medicine instead of surgery. Don't think I would have been happy as a general surgeon (or even after a fellowship). Should have made the decision earlier and that was my error.

Appreciate any other input. If it is impossible to go into military residency, I completely understand and will mainly focus on civilian residency

 

[Barrel Proof]

If you have a speciality and a branch of service in mind, you may try to get in touch with the specialty leader for the specialty that you’re interested in. That person may have some better information about how that process might work if it is even possible at all. The need for personnel varies across specialities as well as branches of service.

The background on that is that in the Navy we have Specialty Leaders (Army and Air Force have similar positions with a different name- consultant?) that serve in a leadership position as an advocate/coordinator for their specialty. Essentially ensuring that the right people, with the right training, are in the right place to meet both operational and clinical mission needs.

I agree with the points made above, and I too would caution against viewing military medicine as inherently more family friendly. That’s a misconception and often not the reality. In fact, military service may put greater strain on your family compared to completing a civilian residency and moving on to civilian attending life. Having trained in both systems (military GME and civilian academic center), I can say that residency is residency. The demands are significant in either setting. The difference comes afterward: military attending life brings frequent moves (sometimes to less desirable locations) and the ongoing possibility of deployments, both of which can add stress for families.

 

[Curiousforchange]

Barrel Proof, thanks so much for your input. Would you happen to know how I could contact a specialty leader? (Assuming I would have to ask the recruiter)

Understand that residency is residency and I am ready to work 100hr+ weeks again. My spouse and I are expecting another addition to our family and her income isn’t high. I know the military can provide benefits with housing and cheaper daycare so I thought of it as an option. I know in the long run civilian docs get paid more but I thought it was a feasible option. Wasn’t sure of the difficulty of switching since I don’t know many military docs. The recruiter made it seem like it would be an easy option but I guess it won’t be

 

[pgg]

The usual path for people who switch specialties prior to completing an initial residency, is to find another program before leaving the one they're in. Often their program directors will help, because they want to see their residents succeed. They want to graduate residents who are a good fit for their field.

Can you expect help and support from your gen surg program director?

What are you doing right now? When did you leave the general surgery residency? June of this year?

No red flags on my medical training.

They wanted me to spend an additional year in clinical training before graduating

This is a red flag. Why did they want to extend you a year?


The recruiters don't really know anything about the medical corps. You came to the right place. 🙂


Since you have an unrestricted medical license, you are probably eligible to join and serve as a general medical officer (GMO). These are 2 or 3 year tours, essentially serving as a primary care doctor for operational military units. During that time, a GMO can apply for military residency programs through the GME selection board.

This would be a job, in medicine, earning a paycheck and receiving benefits. It would also set you up to be eligible for a future application cycle for an inservice (military) residency program, and it might help you rehab away the red flags in your record.

 

[Helpful Troll]

...
Understand that residency is residency and I am ready to work 100hr+ weeks again. My spouse and I are expecting another addition to our family and her income isn’t high. I know the military can provide benefits with housing and cheaper daycare so I thought of it as an option. I know in the long run civilian docs get paid more but I thought it was a feasible option. Wasn’t sure of the difficulty of switching since I don’t know many military docs. The recruiter made it seem like it would be an easy option but I guess it won’t be

Straight to a military residency is not likely. As @pgg indicated an active duty GMO assignment/contract is more likely, then you can apply for a military residency with the additional service obligation.

Hopefully you are aware you and your family might end up at Ft Polk, Irwin, Jackson, Drum,... is your family ready for an assignment far away from friends and family, extreme heat or cold, your deployment, and lack of employment opportunities for spouses?

Day care costs for an officer's children are likely not much less expensive than civilian. The 'subidies' are based on income.

 

[backrow]

We are 100% not getting the full story. The only way for people to be extended in residency is via adverse actions, medical leaves of an absence, or other long term absences. A request for a full year of extension would likely indicate probation with an extension of training due to not meeting milestones. In the last year of a surgical residency this has the implication that the program didn’t feel they were ready for independent practice/chief year.

Leaving without being fired is at least a little better on paper, but if there were adverse actions initiated then those will likely show up on end of training evaluations.

Your only realistic pathway from civ to military is, as noted above, to become a general medical officer for several years and then you could have a realistic chance of matching into a residency. I would ask the officer recruiter you talked with to contact the medical corps chief office about becoming a GMO as you do have a license.

 

[armytrainingsir]

We are 100% not getting the full story. The only way for people to be extended in residency is via adverse actions, medical leaves of an absence, or other long term absences. A request for a full year of extension would likely indicate probation with an extension of training due to not meeting milestones. In the last year of a surgical residency this has the implication that the program didn’t feel they were ready for independent practice/chief year.

Leaving without being fired is at least a little better on paper, but if there were adverse actions initiated then those will likely show up on end of training evaluations.

Your only realistic pathway from civ to military is, as noted above, to become a general medical officer for several years and then you could have a realistic chance of matching into a residency. I would ask the officer recruiter you talked with to contact the medical corps chief office about becoming a GMO as you do have a license.

A surgery resident is asked to extend because the staff doesn’t think they are safe to operate independently or they want to fire them but haven’t done the paper trail first/correctly. I’ve seen it a few times.

Pretty sure the military doesn’t take GMOs off the street. They only take folks either board certified or on the traditional path toward board certification. Detouring folks to GMO land is a tool for the benefit of the .gov, not the individual. Residency dropout, whatever the reason, taints the candidate. Not really fair, but is what it is.

IMO, OP made a grave error. Finish residency, do a critical care fellowship or just work ER or doc in a box. But at least you are BE/BC. As is, sadly, OP will be staffing a doc in a box, going to some third tier IM or FP program as the only native English speaker, or selling snake oil of some sort.

Medicine is heartless and ruthless if you stray off the traditional path.

 

[pgg]

I'm torn between wishing the OP the best, and being low-key annoyed that this is our annual "I screwed up my civilian medical training, don't have any insight into what happened, but still want to be a doctor, how do I get the military to bail me out by letting me slide into one of their programs that must be desperate for any warm body" thread.

 

[narcusprince]

I'm torn between wishing the OP the best, and being low-key annoyed that this is our annual "I screwed up my civilian medical training, don't have any insight into what happened, but still want to be a doctor, how do I get the military to bail me out by letting me slide into one of their programs that must be desperate for any warm body" thread.

On the brighter side he could be Surgeon General because he chose to leave surgery to actually get back to taking care of patients.

 

[sergeant_usarmy_medical]

Hello! In my experience as a Medical Recruiter so far... I have been told that civilians cannot apply to Military residency like mentioned above. They tend to save all those spots for the HPSP's just as their incentives for going into the program. That's why the Army usually promises and delivers on a 99% Military Residency program match rate. I was also told that in "crazy/lucky" circumstances that someone applying from the outside could possibly get in, but its EXTREMELY rare. Best of luck!