Can I be eligible for the lowest-tier programs? (FMG)

[sksmstmdwlsdl]

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Hi,

I'm at a verge of changing my career or continuing this path of trying to be a doctor in the US.
I caught wind that not DR is less competitive now - 2014 stat showed 88% ranking.
I'm contemplating this versus Surgery Prelim.

Step 1: 207
Step 2: CK failed twice, CS failed once. Still need to retake them.

Just wanted to know cadidly what my chances are in getting into a lowest of the low radiology residency.
I'm using this as a credential to do what I want to do - Health Informatics (you need to be a practicing clinician if you want to go up the power chain). I have extensive IT background, and generally like programming.

It's just.. standardized exams are really hard for me. I also have anxiety attacks when I'm around people.

I'm grasping at straws here, so please be brutally honest. .. much thanks in advance.

 

[je355804]

Probably zero.

 

[Iced]

.

 

[RadsonRads]

Hi,

I'm at a verge of changing my career or continuing this path of trying to be a doctor in the US.
I caught wind that not DR is less competitive now - 2014 stat showed 88% ranking.
I'm contemplating this versus Surgery Prelim.

Step 1: 207
Step 2: CK failed twice, CS failed once. Still need to retake them.

Just wanted to know cadidly what my chances are in getting into a lowest of the low radiology residency.
I'm using this as a credential to do what I want to do - Health Informatics (you need to be a practicing clinician if you want to go up the power chain). I have extensive IT background, and generally like programming.

It's just.. standardized exams are really hard for me. I also have anxiety attacks when I'm around people.

I'm grasping at straws here, so please be brutally honest. .. much thanks in advance.

It is less competitive but the standards haven't been lowered. I think that's where people are getting the wrong impression. The reason being is that there is still a VERY difficult written exam taken in third yr of residency. The program's pass rate on this exam IS their reputation. For this reason, they have to keep standards high on applicants.

I don't really think you have a shot to be honest.

 

[bashwell]

I'm using this as a credential to do what I want to do - Health Informatics (you need to be a practicing clinician if you want to go up the power chain). I have extensive IT background, and generally like programming.

If you're interested in informatics, I believe you can get into informatics through IM (others can correct me if I'm mistaken). I doubt the informatics fellowship would be very competitive, even coming from a lower tier IM residency. Maybe that's a more realistic option to get you to where you want to go?

 

[cokebottle]

Yea fewer people are applying, but 5 people that I know this cycle are >250 step1/step2.

 

[Gadofosveset]

No. Diagnostic radiology residency in the U.S. would not be a good fit for you.

You may want to look into nuclear medicine residencies with an eye toward IT. NM and IT work very well together.
The job outlook for NM resident graduates is poor, but if you only want the residency for credentialing, this may not be an unreasonable approach. Be warned, it will be very very unlikely you will be able to backdoor a job into diagnostic radiology after graduating from a NM program.

 

[sksmstmdwlsdl]

Thanks for the honest replies.
Would you say NM is less competitive than DR?
I could apply for Surgery Prelim, and then apply for NM.
Is that some sort of a possible career path?

 

[Gadofosveset]

Thanks for the honest replies.
Would you say NM is less competitive than DR?
I could apply for Surgery Prelim, and then apply for NM.
Is that some sort of a possible career path?

There's a nuclear medicine section in this forum. I'd try posing that question there. See what they say.

My suggestion of NM was not guided so much that I thought it would be much easier to get into. NM has other factors at play: fewer positions, some programs contracting the number of spots or quitting their training program altogether. I would ask current NM residents for a realistic idea of admission criteria.

My suggestion of NM was more motivated by your interest in informatics/IT and your concern about your anxiety. In my (limited) experience, NM is quite receptive to people with an IT bent and is a good fit for people with a programmery sort of bent. Diagnostic radiology requires good people skills: talking on the phone to impatient clinicians, split second diagnoses, giving conferences... not good for anxiety. NM has much less of that. Finally, I suggested NM because it sounds like you're not looking to use your training for your career. This would make NM a reasonable option.

 

[gonogo]

To the OP: just try to do a radiology residency abroad. In some countries you can do it in 3 years and no need for internship. You can then come back to the US and go straight to fellowship. After 4 years of fellowship you can take the boards and become board certified. Go to the ABR website and you can get more info.

 

[je355804]

Thanks for the honest replies.
Would you say NM is less competitive than DR?
I could apply for Surgery Prelim, and then apply for NM.
Is that some sort of a possible career path?

There is no way you can match prelim surgery through the main match. You could possibly scramble in after the match is over.

I have IMG friends with 230/240+ who barely got 2-3 interviews for surgery, even for the prelim spots. I am not trying to be a jerk here... just telling you the reality of the match climate as it stands.

 

[BDUS]

To the OP: just try to do a radiology residency abroad. In some countries you can do it in 3 years and no need for internship. You can then come back to the US and go straight to fellowship. After 4 years of fellowship you can take the boards and become board certified. Go to the ABR website and you can get more info.

I am just lurking but was surprised to learn this information about doing residency abroad and able to match into fellowship in the US. Is this specific to certain countries? certain residencies? I have multiple family members that were practicing physicians in home country who came here and had to do a residency. This was many years ago though. Have things changed?

 

[gonogo]

I am just lurking but was surprised to learn this information about doing residency abroad and able to match into fellowship in the US. Is this specific to certain countries? certain residencies? I have multiple family members that were practicing physicians in home country who came here and had to do a residency. This was many years ago though. Have things changed?

yes, in most other fields in medicine you need to finish an acgme accredited residency before being able to take the boards. Radiology is one of the few, if not the only specialty, where you don't need to do this. Go to the ABR website and look it up. It's called the alternate pathway.

 

[sksmstmdwlsdl]

Thanks for your ideas! It's super helpful to see the reality so I can decide on my path clearly. It's unlikely that other countries will accept foreigners to join their residency program. They got their med students to take care of..
Just saying. Did you have a country in mind when you were writing it?

 

[FranzLO]

Thanks for your ideas! It's super helpful to see the reality so I can decide on my path clearly. It's unlikely that other countries will accept foreigners to join their residency program. They got their med students to take care of..
Just saying. Did you have a country in mind when you were writing it?

Funny you say that, since we take care of foreign rads residents here with the ridiculous 4 fellowship route.

 

[vm26]

Hi,

I'm at a verge of changing my career or continuing this path of trying to be a doctor in the US.
I caught wind that not DR is less competitive now - 2014 stat showed 88% ranking.
I'm contemplating this versus Surgery Prelim.

Step 1: 207
Step 2: CK failed twice, CS failed once. Still need to retake them.

Just wanted to know cadidly what my chances are in getting into a lowest of the low radiology residency.
I'm using this as a credential to do what I want to do - Health Informatics (you need to be a practicing clinician if you want to go up the power chain). I have extensive IT background, and generally like programming.

It's just.. standardized exams are really hard for me. I also have anxiety attacks when I'm around people.

I'm grasping at straws here, so please be brutally honest. .. much thanks in advance.

Who knows, maybe you can match in some lower-tier marginal rads program, you should give it a shot, radiology has really become a not so desirable field...more importantly you should seek help for your anxiety attacks, plenty of available help out there, may change your career outlook

 

[atomi]

Hi,
It's just.. standardized exams are really hard for me. I also have anxiety attacks when I'm around people.

Knowing this about yourself, why did you choose to work in an industry that will require to interact at extremely closely and personally with dozens of strangers everyday and require a barrage of 10-hour standardized tests that cannot be retaken in order to achieve this goal?

As said before, if your goal is medical informatics then I am sure there are other ways to get there or something similar.

 

[SpontaneousCombustion]

Yea, I hate to be a downer. Less competitive does not equate to lower stats in radiology. We're less competitive with less applicants but I was told on numerous interviews that the applicants were all very qualified. In fact, one director said that the applicants he's gotten has been the highest board scores he's seen. It also raises a lot of red flags if you failed CK not only once but twice. This is just my opinion though. I would talk to an adviser or even a program director for their input. Don't let these forums sway you from your dream. I think if you keep at it then you'll eventually get it. Good luck!

 

[NRAI2001]

To be honest... your chances of getting ANY RESIDENCY AT ALL is pretty close to zero..... forget radiology... I m talking about in any field in any part of the country would be very close to zero.... unless if you have some sort of backdoor connection to get you a spot somewhere..

If you could get into ANY residency ANYWHERE you should take it and run with it as far as it ll take you. I am a US IMG and I know many of my class mates with steps in the 220s and 230s (no fails) that did not match... this isnt the 80s or 90s anymore where FMGs/IMGs could be fairly certain they could match somewhere in the country in most fields..

 

[deleted564680]

To be honest... your chances of getting ANY RESIDENCY AT ALL is pretty close to zero..... forget radiology... I m talking about in any field in any part of the country would be very close to zero.... unless if you have some sort of backdoor connection to get you a spot somewhere..

If you could get into ANY residency ANYWHERE you should take it and run with it as far as it ll take you. I am a US IMG and I know many of my class mates with steps in the 220s and 230s (no fails) that did not match... this isnt the 80s or 90s anymore where FMGs/IMGs could be fairly certain they could match somewhere in the country in most fields..

Agree. I mean radiology is "down" as far as the match goes, but it's not like they are taking 200-220 people at a ridiculous clip. And, if they are going to take someone in that range...its going to be a US MD, not even a US DO let alone the others. Most programs are ranking fewer applicants and willing to go into the SOAP instead of getting the "lower" applicants. You can mention 88% filled but the avg. USMLE is still going to be 240ish which is higher than most fields.

 

[NRAI2001]

Again to the OP.. I think it is close to zero that you would match in ANY FIELD at all ....better to hear the truth and plan accordingly than to waste time and money..