Can I be let go from my current program for switching specialties?

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hfzballer11

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Hi.

I’m a PGY-2 PM&R resident, switching to anesthesia. I’m applying through ERAS right now. I was going to tell my program director this week but it just occurred to me that if for whatever reason she fires me, then I won’t have a source of income until July 2019. I am on great terms with everyone in the program and well-liked, I just had a change of heart in specialty. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this happening? I also realized that the contract I have with the hospital is a month-to-month, it’s not for the entire year. So legally they can fire me anytime.

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Many programs may insist upon a letter from your current PD as part of your application, attesting to your performance in the program. And you'll presumably need a bunch of time off to interview. Hiding this from your PD seems unlikely. Can they fire you for this? If you have a month-to-month contract, they can fire you for anything. They can fire you for nothing -- just not renew your contract. Most likely, if you're professional about it, they will keep you until the end of the year.
 
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It's literally impossible to hide applying to a new specialty from your PD, so the sooner you tell them and secure the letter of good standing, the better.

Most programs will keep you around, if for no other reason than because if they fire you that's a lot of shifts that will need to be covered somehow... but obviously none of us can know exactly what your specific program will do.
 
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In my opinion you should have talked to your PD about switching as soon as you knew you wanted to do it. Give them as much notice as possible so that they can deal with the logistics of losing a resident. They will be much more supportive of your decision that way.
Also, since you are applying to Anesthesia this cycle, are you planning on re-doing a PGY1 year? If you match into an advanced program that doesn't have an integrated base year, then you will not start your new residency until July 2020.
 
In my opinion you should have talked to your PD about switching as soon as you knew you wanted to do it. Give them as much notice as possible so that they can deal with the logistics of losing a resident. They will be much more supportive of your decision that way.
Also, since you are applying to Anesthesia this cycle, are you planning on re-doing a PGY1 year? If you match into an advanced program that doesn't have an integrated base year, then you will not start your new residency until July 2020.

I’m applying to physician-only and categorical programs. Fortunately there are quite a few around me. I don’t mind repeating intern year if that’s what it comes to.

Thanks for the input everyone. I’ll have a talk with my PD this week. Hopefully she keeps me around for the year.
 
Funding for you as a resident is paid for through medicare, so unless you are a problem or your PD is very petty I doubt they would fire you. I don't know what benefit they would have to do so.
 
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Funding for you as a resident is paid for through medicare, so unless you are a problem or your PD is very petty I doubt they would fire you. I don't know what benefit they would have to do so.

This makes alot of sense. I had a follow-up question to this, not sure if you'd have the answer. Since after this year I would have used up 2 years of my funding, does that make me a less attractive candidate for programs? And say I match into an advanced position and have to fill the gap with another prelim year, that will be a 3rd year of funding I use up before even starting my real specialty. How strongly do programs take this into consideration? If I do have to take a gap year, am I better off finding something else to do instead of using up another year of funds with a prelim year?
 
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Hello everyone,

very interesting thread! I was also thinking about that.
What if an applicant matched in an IM prelim position this year and he/she applies again next year for an IM categorical position? Would that be a red flag for program directors due to the funding (I am an IMG and one year of fully accredited clinical experience would be of great benefit, however if that's a red flag there is no point in doing that)

Thank you!
 
It's can be an issue. Some programs may care about funding. Others are over their cap, and it doesn't matter at all. Some programs will not let you repeat the PGY-1, rregardless of the funding issue. You might be able to snag a PGY-2 opening, and avoid the situation completely.

If all you can get is a prelim year, that's better than nothing.
 
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It's can be an issue. Some programs may care about funding. Others are over their cap, and it doesn't matter at all. Some programs will not let you repeat the PGY-1, rregardless of the funding issue. You might be able to snag a PGY-2 opening, and avoid the situation completely.

If all you can get is a prelim year, that's better than nothing.
Thanks a lot for your answer!
I was aiming for large programs, but I will not have a CK score until late October, so I thought that it would be a good idea aiming only for a prelim position this year (even in a smaller program) in order to get some USCE. Later I learned about the possible funding issue that some programs may have, so now I am trying to figure out what is the best option.

Why wouldn't programs let me repeat the PGY-1 year? I mean apart from the funding is there any other reason it could be so?
 
Why wouldn't programs let me repeat the PGY-1 year? I mean apart from the funding is there any other reason it could be so?

PGY-1 is an amazing experience. The first time.

The second time, it's a horrible, exhausting, and soul crushing nightmare.

That may seem impossible, but it's not.

Also, how do you plan on interviewing for a new PGY-1 position while you're a prelim PGY-1?
 
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Thank you again for your assistance.
I was just thinking taking part of my vacation and also completing rotations that are not so demanding during the interview period.These were some ideas I read on various threads.
Do you think that would be impossible?

Actually, I was thinking doing a preliminary would be of great benefit next year in order to match to a high tier program, However I can see now how that may also cause some problems.
 
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Thank you again for your assistance.
I was just thinking taking part of my vacation and also completing rotations that are not so demanding during the interview period.These were some ideas I read on various threads.
Do you think that would be impossible?

Actually, I was thinking doing a preliminary would be of great benefit next year in order to match to a high tier program, However I can see now how that may also cause some problems.

That's not how it works. People who matched prelim only are seen as having inehrently worse applications than those applying for the first time.

Go for gold the first time. Prelim is a back-up. If you have to re-interview during your PGY-1 year, your life will be more difficult.
 
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Actually, I was thinking doing a preliminary would be of great benefit next year in order to match to a high tier program, However I can see now how that may also cause some problems.

As @evilbooyaa said, that’s not how prelims are viewed in the clinical realm. There are 2 broad categories of prelims - those completing PGY-1 with a planned advanced residency to follow (rads, derm, anesthesia, optho) and those who had very weak applications who had no other choice. Surgery prelim years tend to be heavily weighted towards the latter.

Many programs unfortunately dump heavily on prelim residents and put them on labor-intensive and poorly-educational rotations for the majority of the year, saving the others for categorical residents that the program has a vested long term interest in. It’s just sort of facts.
 
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I was just thinking taking part of my vacation and also completing rotations that are not so demanding during the interview period.These were some ideas I read on various threads.
Do you think that would be impossible?

The answer is "maybe". Some programs may give you quite a bit of flexibility in your schedule. Some programs may not. My program is one that I would like to think is reasonably flexible, and we would ensure that you had a 4 week block of elective somewhere in interview season. But that's only 4 weeks, and interviews can be anywhere from October to January.

Actually, I was thinking doing a preliminary would be of great benefit next year in order to match to a high tier program, However I can see now how that may also cause some problems.

This is a terrible thought. People who match to high tier programs do so right out of the starting gate. If you do a prelim, you'll need to have your LOR's submitted by early September. With only 8 weeks of internship done, you're unlikely to be able to get anything other than an LOR that states that you're a beginning intern. Perhaps after you complete the prelim year, you'll be able to get better letters -- but then you're already a cycle later, will have no clinical experience for a year, and the funding issues.

So, in general, getting just a prelim year should be a backup plan -- clearly better than nothing. If you get just a prelim, several options:

Prelim GS, with plan to go to Cat GS:
1. There is a small chance of getting a PGY-2 GS spot. A few of these open every year, because someone else drops / fails out. Competition is fierce. Usually, programs keep their own prelims if possible. Sometimes a program's prelims are all matched to PGY-2's elsewhere, and they might consider prelims from other programs. Spots don't tend to be widely advertised.

2. I have seen a few people complete a prelim GS, then match to a Cat GS PGY-1 spot. Usually, you need to complete the entire prelim year first (with an outstanding performance, of course), then do a research year and reapply in the research year. Also a long shot, but an option for those who are "all in" for surgery.

Medicine Prelim:
1. It's possible to get an IM PGY-2 after completing an IM PGY-1. There tend to be a few more of these spots than surgical spots. Better name recognition of your PGY-1 opens more doors. IM programs may have more flexibility with slots than surgery programs (because we don't have case log requirements), so it's even possible for a "full" program to create an extra slot for a good prelim that wants to stay.
2. It's possible to apply as a PGY-1 IM Prelim for "R" spots in the match. These are Advanced positions but to start the same year as the match, so to apply for them you have to have already completed a PGY-1 -- hence being in a PGY-1 is a huge plus. There's a small number of these spots, but also a smaller number of applicants.
3. You can also apply for "A" spots in the match during the PGY-1. This creates a gap year, but since you're already matched, you can basically do anything in the gap year. If you fail to get an "A" spot, then you still have some time to try to find an IM PGY-2.
 
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That's not how it works. People who matched prelim only are seen as having inehrently worse applications than those applying for the first time.

Go for gold the first time. Prelim is a back-up. If you have to re-interview during your PGY-1 year, your life will be more difficult.

As @evilbooyaa said, that’s not how prelims are viewed in the clinical realm. There are 2 broad categories of prelims - those completing PGY-1 with a planned advanced residency to follow (rads, derm, anesthesia, optho) and those who had very weak applications who had no other choice. Surgery prelim years tend to be heavily weighted towards the latter.

Many programs unfortunately dump heavily on prelim residents and put them on labor-intensive and poorly-educational rotations for the majority of the year, saving the others for categorical residents that the program has a vested long term interest in. It’s just sort of facts.

The answer is "maybe". Some programs may give you quite a bit of flexibility in your schedule. Some programs may not. My program is one that I would like to think is reasonably flexible, and we would ensure that you had a 4 week block of elective somewhere in interview season. But that's only 4 weeks, and interviews can be anywhere from October to January.



This is a terrible thought. People who match to high tier programs do so right out of the starting gate. If you do a prelim, you'll need to have your LOR's submitted by early September. With only 8 weeks of internship done, you're unlikely to be able to get anything other than an LOR that states that you're a beginning intern. Perhaps after you complete the prelim year, you'll be able to get better letters -- but then you're already a cycle later, will have no clinical experience for a year, and the funding issues.

So, in general, getting just a prelim year should be a backup plan -- clearly better than nothing. If you get just a prelim, several options:

Prelim GS, with plan to go to Cat GS:
1. There is a small chance of getting a PGY-2 GS spot. A few of these open every year, because someone else drops / fails out. Competition is fierce. Usually, programs keep their own prelims if possible. Sometimes a program's prelims are all matched to PGY-2's elsewhere, and they might consider prelims from other programs. Spots don't tend to be widely advertised.

2. I have seen a few people complete a prelim GS, then match to a Cat GS PGY-1 spot. Usually, you need to complete the entire prelim year first (with an outstanding performance, of course), then do a research year and reapply in the research year. Also a long shot, but an option for those who are "all in" for surgery.

Medicine Prelim:
1. It's possible to get an IM PGY-2 after completing an IM PGY-1. There tend to be a few more of these spots than surgical spots. Better name recognition of your PGY-1 opens more doors. IM programs may have more flexibility with slots than surgery programs (because we don't have case log requirements), so it's even possible for a "full" program to create an extra slot for a good prelim that wants to stay.
2. It's possible to apply as a PGY-1 IM Prelim for "R" spots in the match. These are Advanced positions but to start the same year as the match, so to apply for them you have to have already completed a PGY-1 -- hence being in a PGY-1 is a huge plus. There's a small number of these spots, but also a smaller number of applicants.
3. You can also apply for "A" spots in the match during the PGY-1. This creates a gap year, but since you're already matched, you can basically do anything in the gap year. If you fail to get an "A" spot, then you still have some time to try to find an IM PGY-2.


Thank you all so much for your time.

I will have to think of the options that I have and I will definitely NOT apply for prelim IM spots.
 
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