Can I declare myself disadvantaged?

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OCDOCDOCD said:
How does that make a person less disadvantaged though? I mean, if a kid had their father die and their mother become severely disabled leaving the kid caring for their 5 younger siblings while the family lived off of nothing but disability checks and whatever the student could bring home from the full time job they worked in addition to attending their inner city ghetto high school, but the student still nonetheless managed to graduate valedictorian and go onto Yale for undergrad with a full scholarship where they proceed to get a 4.0 GPA, that isn't disadvantaged? It seems odd to say that a person wasn't disadvantaged just because they came out okay even if it meant they were busting their butts their whole lives just to be at the same level of students who were slacking off until they got into college.
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What does someone with a 4.0 from Yale need to prove? The boost of identifying as 'disadvantaged' really isn't needed in that case, IMHO.
 
LizzyM said:
Disadvantaged related to ages 0-18. It sounds like things were bad for you from 8-16 and maybe before the age of 8 if your dad was sick and unable to work. Did you feel behind your peers when you got to college because your school system k-12 was substandard? Did you go without basic things like needed school supplies because your family was destitute during grade school & jr high? If so, you might describe yourself as disadvantaged. If not, your parents situations can still be described in the application (living? y/n, highest educational attainment, occupation) and if you mention your dad's death in your personal statement or in a secondary, it will be "out there" without having to be part of a "disadvantaged essay".
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Thanks for the advice. My father did not work from the time I was born until his death, but we still didn't necessarily "go without." I always had the essentials, but we couldn't always splurge. I will definitely just go with what you said as opposed to "disadvantaged," because despite everything, I feel as though I had a pretty good childhood.
 
LizzyM said:
I think that AMCAS marks it automatically if your county is underserved. I see little (U) and (R) all the time for underserved and rural.
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I feel like the (U) is so inaccurate though. For example, if you grew up in Los Angeles County, whether it was Beverly Hills or Watts, you get a (U). Same thing in Orange County and San Diego County despite the fact that all these counties have both extremely affluent and extremely poor areas.
 
MuAgonist said:
I feel like the (U) is so inaccurate though. For example, if you grew up in Los Angeles County, whether it was Beverly Hills or Watts, you get a (U). Same thing in Orange County and San Diego County despite the fact that all these counties have both extremely affluent and extremely poor areas.
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I'm not sure that it's so inaccurate. I would think they'd go by zipcodes in areas like Los Angeles, only desgnating areas in true need, as evidenced by the HRSA's maps, lists, and search engine. They specify certain areas in large counties with variable access to care like Los Angeles or even Davidson county of TN.
 
Manhattan (NYC) is considered an underserved area despite having three medical schools and numerous hospitals within its boundaries and some of the highest income census tracts in the country.

That said, have you ever tried to find a primary care provider in Manhattan? Everyone's a specialist. Underserved is about a dearth of primary care providers and that, frankly, is almost everywhere.

As best I can tell, the AMCAS algorithim uses county (very gross measure) rather than zip code or something finer in terms of geocoding.
 
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LizzyM said:
Manhattan (NYC) is considered an underserved area despite having three medical schools and numerous hospitals within its boundaries and some of the highest income census tracts in the country.

That said, have you ever tried to find a primary care provider in Manhattan? Everyone's a specialist. Underserved is about a dearth of primary care providers and that, frankly, is almost everywhere.

As best I can tell, the AMCAS algorithim uses county (very gross measure) rather than zip code or something finer in terms of geocoding.
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Last year I moved to NY state and was looking to refill a prescription. I spoke to a coordinator at my closest hospital. After explaining that I could not wait 3-5 months to see the PCP because my prescription was running out she prompted me to visit the ED because "they are always open" Uggggg I have a full-time job, insured and all and still seeing a PCP is hard. I ended up going to a FQHC.
 
LizzyM said:
Manhattan (NYC) is considered an underserved area despite having three medical schools and numerous hospitals within its boundaries and some of the highest income census tracts in the country.

That said, have you ever tried to find a primary care provider in Manhattan? Everyone's a specialist. Underserved is about a dearth of primary care providers and that, frankly, is almost everywhere.

As best I can tell, the AMCAS algorithim uses county (very gross measure) rather than zip code or something finer in terms of geocoding.
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Great info, I stand corrected. Thanks.

But I do know that when you're looking to do an underserved loan forgiveness or grant program, they do use those specific areas I mentioned when looking for a clinic in which to serve.
 
LizzyM said:
What does someone with a 4.0 from Yale need to prove? The boost of identifying as 'disadvantaged' really isn't needed in that case, IMHO.
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I'd say it puts their achievements in a new light. I don't see why disadvantaged is only relevant when a person's stats are bad.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
I'd say it puts their achievements in a new light. I don't see why disadvantaged is only relevant when a person's stats are bad.
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It might be enough to describe one's parents which is open to everyone, etc and leave off the "disadvantaged" but everyone can choose to do as they please. I did see someone use it to their advantage as a way of explaining enlistment in the military right after HS graduation, and then military academy 3 yrs later with a near perfect gpa.
 
LizzyM said:
Manhattan (NYC) is considered an underserved area despite having three medical schools and numerous hospitals within its boundaries and some of the highest income census tracts in the country.

That said, have you ever tried to find a primary care provider in Manhattan? Everyone's a specialist. Underserved is about a dearth of primary care providers and that, frankly, is almost everywhere.

As best I can tell, the AMCAS algorithim uses county (very gross measure) rather than zip code or something finer in terms of geocoding.
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I see, this makes sense. I know that Southern CA has some ridiculous stat for amount of MRI machines per capita, despite ridiculously low amount of PCPs per capita.
 
I've also been considering whether or not to mark disadvantaged on my app and now I'm not so sure after reading through this thread...

I already have a good application, but I did go through middle school and high school with my dad in and out of mental health rehab for bipolar disorder. After that, he moved in with his parents and is now considered homeless. My mom did her best, but still only made about 25K/year (she never went to college) and she couldn't help me pay for school.

I guess the only way my experience really held me back academically was that I ended up going to a lower-tier school because they offered the best scholarship (full-ride for athletics).

So is that something worth mentioning on my application? Do I really need an explanation for why I went to a lower-tier school?
 
I've struggled with the question of considering myself disadvantaged as well not because of whether I feel my circumstances may not fit the criteria suggested by AMCAS rather I like some others do not want to give the "please feel sorry for me" story to the admissions committee. Instead, I want to share my experiences because I do feel it would have a positive impact on my community and our struggles( not a traditional URM). I was encouraged by my pre-health advisor and program director to go for it, but I was too worried about what the adcoms would feel or if medical schools really cared for it. I have brought up my life experiences in the personal statement and secondaries, but it still seems that schools are over looking it. I reapplied to medical school this year with a decent MCAT score( 30), remedial SMP work ( 4.0), solid E.C.'s., and a late application. I have had no luck. I am preparing for the worst, which would be a reapplication. Ofcourse I have been keeping myself involved in clinical, research, and community service activities so this wouldnt be an issue. I feel maybe this time I should check that box off. Again, it is something I am still unsure of.
 
Guero said:
Nah, mostly producers and "aspiring" actors/writers. C'mon guys, that's my home town, born and raised.
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you will find these aspiring actors/writers waiting tables in hollywood.

born in raised in Los Angeles also no place like it, except for the traffic
 
RCPreMD said:
you will find these aspiring actors/writers waiting tables in hollywood.

born in raised in Los Angeles also no place like it, except for the traffic
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:highfive:
Yup, the parking lot that is the 405 and the myriad other unpleasant freeways are the only things that make me not want to return. 🙁 I want to throw a giant stink bomb down and vacate like a third of the population so it'd be more pleasant to return. I love, love, love my hometown and all its blemishes aside from the traffic. I nearly have a coronary every time I return if I drive anytime between 6a and 8p.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
I'd say it puts their achievements in a new light. I don't see why disadvantaged is only relevant when a person's stats are bad.
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Well from another perspective, why is a disadvantaged status really needed by anyone? Regardless of how they grew up? Honestly if someone has enough drive and motivation to accomplish something, they will find a way to make it happen. So why do we place more emphasis on the 3.5 gpa grad who grew up poor versus the 4.0 Yale grad who grew up wealthy? Everything seems different on paper and will never tell the complete story, which is why you go through interviews.. But to me it seems totally unfair to try and basically give bonus points for sob stories when choosing applicant priorities.
 
Honestly, just use it if you think you have something worthy. The AMCAS explanation gives examples of food stamps and government aid, but I know at least 2 people I worked with who used it for saccharine sob stories - nothing I would consider truly disadvantaged - and they both got interviews at places where they had no business interviewing. Seems like it gives an almost URM-like advantage at certain schools.
 
ace425x said:
Well from another perspective, why is a disadvantaged status really needed by anyone? Regardless of how they grew up? Honestly if someone has enough drive and motivation to accomplish something, they will find a way to make it happen. So why do we place more emphasis on the 3.5 gpa grad who grew up poor versus the 4.0 Yale grad who grew up wealthy? Everything seems different on paper and will never tell the complete story, which is why you go through interviews.. But to me it seems totally unfair to try and basically give bonus points for sob stories when choosing applicant priorities.
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Yet no URM thread is complete without someone saying that application decisions of these types should be based on socioeconomic status (disadvantaged) rather than race/ethnicity.

Students with childhood disadvanatages have life experiences and a world view that brings diversity to the student body that can be very informative to fellow students and faculty.
 
LizzyM said:
Yet no URM thread is complete without someone saying that application decisions of these types should be based on socioeconomic status (disadvantaged) rather than race/ethnicity.

Students with childhood disadvanatages have life experiences and a world view that brings diversity to the student body that can be very informative to fellow students and faculty.
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Not that LizzyM needs any backup, but this is exactly how my last interviewer summed up her impression of my childhood disadvantages. The disadvantaged section allowed me to give a brief background that better explained and shed light on certain things in my PS, ECs, and my most meaningfuls.
 
BABSstudent said:
Well it says Hispanic (not trying to start an argument) and may want to really serve a specific population. Maybe he speaks multiple languages, has a super upward GPA, etc.
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Does being bilingual make you more competitive? Or does being bilingual in certain languages, such as Spanish, help you? Just wondering because I'm bilingual in a european language (not Spanish) and I wonder if it's worth mentioning on my app. Also wondering if it's worth mentioning that I was born outside the US.
 
IL Pre Med said:
Does being bilingual make you more competitive? Or does being bilingual in certain languages, such as Spanish, help you? Just wondering because I'm bilingual in a european language (not Spanish) and I wonder if it's worth mentioning on my app. Also wondering if it's worth mentioning that I was born outside the US.
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Place of birth is, I think, a mandatory question.

Everyone is invited to list all languages they speak (although I saw someone recently who listed 3 languages but excluded English!) and whether it is "native or near native" or less fluent (there are specific descriptive words and definitions of those words in the application instructions).

Language and place of birth are separate from a declaration of disadvantaged childhood.
 
LizzyM said:
Place of birth is, I think, a mandatory question.

Everyone is invited to list all languages they speak (although I saw someone recently who listed 3 languages but excluded English!) and whether it is "native or near native" or less fluent (there are specific descriptive words and definitions of those words in the application instructions).

Language and place of birth are separate from a declaration of disadvantaged childhood.
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While we're on the topic of languages.. how well do you have to know a language to be able to list it? I know it ranges from basic speaker to native speaker, but how 'basic' is basic? There are several languages I can speak the very basics of for given sitations.. Some introductions, colors, numbers, phrases, and things of that sort. You know the whole "Hi! My name is..." or "How do I find.." etc. but in none am I fluent enough to hold a normal conversation with someone off the street. So can I list myself as a basic speaker of these languages?
 
ace425x said:
While we're on the topic of languages.. how well do you have to know a language to be able to list it? I know it ranges from basic speaker to native speaker, but how 'basic' is basic? There are several languages I can speak the very basics of for given sitations.. Some introductions, colors, numbers, phrases, and things of that sort. You know the whole "Hi! My name is..." or "How do I find.." etc. but in none am I fluent enough to hold a normal conversation with someone off the street. So can I list myself as a basic speaker of these languages?
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Hola, me llamo BABSstudent. ¿Dónde está la cáncer? Verde, dos, guapo!
 
BABSstudent said:
Hola, me llamo BABSstudent. ¿Dónde está la cáncer? Verde, dos, guapo!
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LOL yea!! Random shizz like that! Como estas? Muy bien! Y tu? ..Me no comprehendo! =D Verde, rojo, amarillo.. My llamo es anonymous.. etc etc.. Its weird because if someone speaks to me slowly in spanish I can understand more than I can speak. Anyways regardless of that, does this qualify me as a 'basic' speak of Spanish? Same goes for Russian.. Privyet! Dobre udra.. Skoikle stoit nomber.. Kak dela.. Spaseeba preekrasna.. Meenya zavoot anonymous.. Lol Ya plokha gavaryoo pa rooskee.. (I'm like 99% sure I'm probably spelling these wrong). Would this qualify me as a basic speaker of russian? I'm fairly sure it would.. but I don't want to get an interview and be drilled on my language knowledge.
 
ace425x said:
LOL yea!! Random shizz like that! Como estas? Muy bien! Y tu? ..Me no comprehendo! =D Verde, rojo, amarillo.. My llamo es anonymous.. etc etc.. Its weird because if someone speaks to me slowly in spanish I can understand more than I can speak. Anyways regardless of that, does this qualify me as a 'basic' speak of Spanish? Same goes for Russian.. Privyet! Dobre udra.. Skoikle stoit nomber.. Kak dela.. Spaseeba preekrasna.. Meenya zavoot anonymous.. Lol Ya plokha gavaryoo pa rooskee.. (I'm like 99% sure I'm probably spelling these wrong). Would this qualify me as a basic speaker of russian? I'm fairly sure it would.. but I don't want to get an interview and be drilled on my language knowledge.
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Unless you feel comfortable talking to a patient in that language, I would leave it out. It isn't something schools are actually going to be impressed by.
 
With regard to languages, read the instrutions as they have changed this year. Whereas one was previously expected to be fluent in order to list the language, it is now ok to list a language even if you know just the basics of common courtesy. Even that could be helpful as an ice breaker with a patient who would appreciate your initial greeting even if you had to use an interpreter for the complicated stuff.
 
I should add that I listed Spanish on my application and had to speak it during one of my interviews for a while. I didn't mind because I listed just average and not advanced on my application, even though I was advanced. I would rather underestimate my skills than overestimate them in a situation like this. I have heard horror stories of things like that happening.
 
ace425x said:
LOL yea!! Random shizz like that! Como estas? Muy bien! Y tu? ..Me no comprehendo! =D Verde, rojo, amarillo.. My llamo es anonymous.. etc etc.. Its weird because if someone speaks to me slowly in spanish I can understand more than I can speak. Anyways regardless of that, does this qualify me as a 'basic' speak of Spanish? Same goes for Russian.. Privyet! Dobre udra.. Skoikle stoit nomber.. Kak dela.. Spaseeba preekrasna.. Meenya zavoot anonymous.. Lol Ya plokha gavaryoo pa rooskee.. (I'm like 99% sure I'm probably spelling these wrong). Would this qualify me as a basic speaker of russian? I'm fairly sure it would.. but I don't want to get an interview and be drilled on my language knowledge.
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I usually live in Moscow and the only word I could make out was "hi." Russian uses this alphabet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet

That said, I can get by in Prague but I can't read or write Czech.

/tangent
 
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caianya said:
I usually live in Moscow and the only word I could make out was "hi." Russian uses this alphabet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet

That said, I can get by in Prague but I can't read or write Czech.

/tangent
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Yea I know Russian uses Cyrillic, but I'm sure I would have butchered my spelling even worst trying to type with it. Like I said.. I was 99% sure it was all misspelled badly enough to not be comprehensible :laugh: I really really want to become fluent in Russian but it is such a difficult language to learn! I have that Rosetta Stone program but I haven't been able to use it as much as I would like with all my MCAT studies :/

Caianya (or anyone else who might be able to answer this), do you happen to know what the rules are for foreign doctors who want to practice in Russia? I would absolutely love to be able to spend a few years living in Moscow, but I would imagine that the whole process (at least for US citizens) would be rather difficult.
 
ace425x said:
Yea I know Russian uses Cyrillic, but I'm sure I would have butchered my spelling even worst trying to type with it. Like I said.. I was 99% sure it was all misspelled badly enough to not be comprehensible :laugh: I really really want to become fluent in Russian but it is such a difficult language to learn! I have that Rosetta Stone program but I haven't been able to use it as much as I would like with all my MCAT studies :/

Caianya (or anyone else who might be able to answer this), do you happen to know what the rules are for foreign doctors who want to practice in Russia? I would absolutely love to be able to spend a few years living in Moscow, but I would imagine that the whole process (at least for US citizens) would be rather difficult.
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I'd focus on utilizing Doctors Without Borders, which I believe helps clinics in Chechnya. Otherwise, I agree and think it'd take a great deal of effort without a guarantee that you'd even be able to practice. Russia and the U.S. are still operating on strained political ties.

EDIT: http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/publications/ar/report.cfm?id=5330
 
Lol I feel stupid for not ever hearing about doctors without boarders before.. Just looked it up and it definitely seems like something I would love to do 😀
 
ace425x said:
Lol I feel stupid for not ever hearing about doctors without boarders before.. Just looked it up and it definitely seems like something I would love to do 😀
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Don't worry about it, just glad to help. Feel free to ask me anything else along the way. I'm always here to help and guide.
 
I was wondering about my case:
-my parents were young when I was born and as a result we were on food stamps
-I've had to work while in high school, undergrad and grad school to help pay for my expenses
-I'm the first person in my family to go to college

I feel like I should be considered for the disadvantaged status, but I also wonder if it's actually beneficial to declare that status when applying? Any suggestions?
 
wakeforestkid12 said:
I was wondering about my case:
-my parents were young when I was born and as a result we were on food stamps
-I've had to work while in high school, undergrad and grad school to help pay for my expenses
-I'm the first person in my family to go to college

I feel like I should be considered for the disadvantaged status, but I also wonder if it's actually beneficial to declare that status when applying? Any suggestions?
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This, alone, qualifies you for disadvantaged status. Do it.
 
prado said:
This, alone, qualifies you for disadvantaged status. Do it.
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Yep. Being on a program for assistance automatically makes you disadvantaged. This includes free or reduced lunches in elementary school.
 
ace425x said:
Haha ironically my parents are both healthcare providers here in this 'medically underserved community'...
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I would probably not put myself down as being underserved in that case.
 
Guero said:
Not that LizzyM needs any backup, but this is exactly how my last interviewer summed up her impression of my childhood disadvantages. The disadvantaged section allowed me to give a brief background that better explained and shed light on certain things in my PS, ECs, and my most meaningfuls.
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This is my problem, right here...I really do feel that my "disadvantages" have given me a lot of advantages in life. I mean, yes, by the letter of it I qualify as a disadvantaged student - raised by a single teenage mother (well, she wasn't single for the first 4 yrs of my life, but my father has still, to this day, not managed to find employment anywhere, so she was supporting a deadbeat husband, his senile grandmother, and a newborn in the rural northwest - more than 1000mi from her family - at the age of 17/18). I have lived in every socioeconomic demographic from trailer trash/food stamps to minimum wage all the way through upper middle class, because my mom managed to pull off single mother + full time job + school year after year until finally earning her ph.d.

So yeah, I was on food stamps. I was raised by a single teenager. I had free, and then reduced school lunches. The doctor was a luxury; it blew our budget when something went wrong medically. But education was how my mom pulled us out of poverty, and therefore it was always the #1 emphasis in my life, so I never felt that doing poorly in school was an option, and so I didn't (until college, but that was my own fault).

I ended up going to an uber-rich school, and it shocked me how much those kids' limited perspectives on life prevented them from relating with anyone with a dissimilar background. So I don't feel that I was disadvantaged; I've gotten a lot of help throughout the years just by virtue of being able to talk to and relate to almost everyone I meet. And academically, well...if anything I knew the true value of a good education better than most, though I botched the transition into college and ended up settling for Bs instead of As, which was stupid of me.

So, I'm sort of conflicted on this, because while I meet the criteria for disadvantaged status, I'm not really sure that I felt academically disadvantaged. On the other hand, I do think that it gave me some valuable perspectives which I would love to have a chance to discuss on my app. It just feels very disingenuous to claim disadvantaged when my mother is now upper-middle class and I managed to make it out of college debt-free due to awesome finaid (another advantage of being poor back then). I wouldn't want them to think I was trying to weasel out of my crappy GPA or make excuses for it. I fully admit that my poor UG showing was entirely my fault and not directly caused by any disadvantage. :shrug:
 
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I am a black, a veteran, raised by a single disabled father, mother had schizophrenia all my life, she was homeless and now lives disabled in a nursing home at 55 years old, father took me outta foster care when i was 6.

despite this the only REAL disadvantage i had was my HIGH SCHOOL, and its inability to provide the coursework to prep for college. Why because comparing to other high school, my school did not have ap courses, no pre calculus, and the bare minimum. This caused me to struggle in college, taking many intro courses that i could have skipped in COMPARISON to other students that were familiar with the material.

Everything else was my own initiative. Med school should start looking at the resources of high schools for some good statistical data.

Disadvantage should be defined as the inability to completely overcome a socioeconomic obstacle that any reasonable person couldn't overcome under similar circumstances
 
I just wanted to put my situation out there as well:
- came over to US to escape poverty in my home country
- parents and I lived in uncles house for a while until we got our own little apartment
- on foodstamps for 4-5 years
- heading down a bad path with fights in elementary school and a suspension
- dad left for an OOS job opportunity (6-7 years, starting around 8th grade)

I am considering checking that box.
 
Personally, I think of it as whether or not circumstances beyond your control hindered your ability to perform academically or gain access to opportunities. For example, growing up in an area too poor for computers in schools or a science lab (very difficult to do well in the pre-recs freshman year if you've never used a beaker before or written a lab report or used a computer), having to work to support your family in HS/college, homelessness/going without food as a kid, parents leaving you at a crack house as a kid...

Not everyone in college starts at the same level of experience, resources, and academic prep, and this section aims to level the playing field a bit (i.e. 3.8 from a kid who doesn't need to work during college and whose parents could pay for MCAT tutors vs. a kid with a 3.5 who did poorly freshman year due to lack of preparation for college and working fulltime). There really is a difference between these students, and the 3.5 kid who has accomplished all of this probably is better able to handle medical school--caught up academically with added challenges.
 
Is it important not to repeat parts of disadvantaged essay with what is written in ps?
 
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