Can I get in?

Med School Insiders
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
WINNING@premed

WINNING@premed

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
6
Reaction score
6
Members do not see this ad.
ok guys, here's my stats. lemme know what you think:
applying MD early decision next year
graduated already with BS in biology
MCAT 27 on both of my 2 takes (8 bio...can't remember the others)
cGPA 3.60
sGPA 3.40
no research
regular volunteering with my school's premed club (tutoring kids)
officer position in my campus Baptist student union and lots of activities within that group-- mentoring younger students, mission trips, service projects, etc
active in my church
multiple mission trips - 3 full summers and one short trip in college. 1 trip was medical. others were teaching and evangelical.
around 200 hours of clinical shadowing
 
Last edited:
gyngyn said:
Your list?
State of residence?
Click to expand...
rather not give my list. only one "top tier" school. but i'm applying early decision to my school where i went for undergrad. I would like to stay in-state and there are 4 schools in my state. so not a big list.
 
Are you applying DO or MD? Your stats are low for MD but probably OK for DO! Especially that MCAT. I don't really think your MCAT is competitive for MD, especially since you got the same score twice! What clinical work have you done? Mission trips are not really looked at positively.
 
That sGPA with the low MCAT is pretty alarming. That you took it twice with no improvement further paints a poor picture. Your chances at placing somewhere (no garuntees that this is anything top or mid tier) MD is between roughly, 20-40%. If you're underrepresented you might fare better. Mission trips aren't highly looked upon in general, sometimes neutral at best. You might be in for a bumpy road if you go MD, I suggest doing a good amount of DO. The top tier is an extreme stretch, but if you got the money, it could be fun to gamble
 
MD schools? No.

DO schools? No

ECs are very weak. No clinical volunteering? Kiss of death. The missions don't count.

You need to show us that you know what you're getting into and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

WINNING@premed said:
ok guys, here's my stats. lemme know what you think:
applying MD early decision next year
graduated already with BS in biology
MCAT 27 on both of my 2 takes (8 bio...can't remember the others)
cGPA 3.60
sGPA 3.30
no research
regular volunteering with my school's premed club (tutoring kids)
officer position in my campus Baptist student union and lots of activities within that group-- mentoring younger students, mission trips, service projects, etc
active in my church
multiple mission trips - 3 full summers and one short trip in college. 1 trip was medical. others were teaching and evangelical.
around 200 hours of shadowing
Click to expand...
 
I've been told by Admissions Deans by a few medical schools that their standards for Early Decision applicants are pretty high. They want above average to high stat (as compared to their average matriculant stats) applicants who embody their mission and values.

You seem to have a lot of religious involvement/experience so I'm assuming you're probably applying to Loma Linda. They reserve a good portion of their medical school positions for Seventh Day Adventists. All other positions are fair game; I've heard of Atheists and non-Christian religious individuals getting in.

You have no research experience, a low BS (and overall) score on your MCAT, and a very low sGPA. You have decent extracurricular experience which seem to show a consistent passion, but your clinical experience is average to below average depending on who is reading your application. I, personally, think it's average, but the above poster thinks it's nonexistent. I don't think your chances are very good because you haven't proven your ability to handle a rigorous science curriculum in any way.

I recommend you do a postbacc (undergraduate courses, no graduate or SMP), get some research experience (R&D in biotech/pharma industry or volunteer in a research lab), and maintain a long term clinical experience. By long term clinical experience, I mean regularly volunteering or doing clinical/patient care work over at least a year. Mission trips alone don't show much commitment to medicine.
 
OP what makes you think you'll be successful if you apply ED? Has someone advised you to do this? I'd forget about any "high tiers".
 
Did none of y'all see the 200 hours of clinical shadowing? And several of my mission trips have been medical as well. I am not applying to Loma Linda as one person assumed.

Also, I am applying ED to my undergrad school's medical school, which is actually Christian affiliated and highly values mission experience.
 
WINNING@premed said:
Did none of y'all see the 200 hours of clinical shadowing? And several of my mission trips have been medical as well. I am not applying to Loma Linda as one person assumed.

Also, I am applying ED to my undergrad school's medical school, which is actually Christian affiliated and highly values mission experience.
Click to expand...
Shadowing, though potentially important is not a substitute for active clinical experience.

I always recommend that you contact your target school before applying ED. This type of application, if unsuccessful, has a chilling effect on your chances at other schools because of timing delays.

Religious missions do not get the same weight at secular schools as other medical activities (even if there is a medical component).
 
Guys, thanks for taking part in my little experiment. I'm actually in the final year of my residency. Those were my actual stats (or as close to them as I could remember). I got in to my #1 choice school on my first try by applying Early Decision. Most of my interview centered around my "useless" missions experience, which my school valued highly given that their mission was focused on underserved care and yes, medical missions. During school I did well on all of my USMLEs and matched at my #1 ranked residency program. And now I'm juggling several job offers.

Glad that I never knew about SDN back in the day. You guys would have discouraged me so much I may have never gotten to where I am today.

In the future when you are advising scared premeds, please remember that you do not know their entire application. You don't know everything about the schools they are applying to or the details of their applications. Do not automatically say that someone has "no chance of getting into an MD school" unless you know the stats of every single MD school or sit on the admissions committee of each one. Do not assume that every school in the US has the same values or statistics as your own.

Can't we just be encouraging? There are ways to point out weaknesses in applications (which were definitely present in my own stats) without being rude or putting people down.

My best advice for someone looking to apply to medical school? There are no absolutes. And don't believe anyone who tells you there are.
 
Congratulations on your success.

We give our advice to the best of our ability given what we know about the ever changing landscape of medical admissions. Our comments are intended to give support where indicated, not indiscriminately. They are not a substitute for resources that we hope all applicants will make use of.

Reviewing the comments in this thread I can say that none of them appear rude or unhelpful. The advantage of a "retrospectroscope" would be wonderful. Instead, all we have is our own experience and a commitment to help those who ask us for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We try to give realistic advice here. People do win the lottery too, despite the long odds. It's not our job to give hugs and kisses nor be Pollyannas, either. I stand by my comments.

Did you get into a Carib school?



WINNING@premed said:
Guys, thanks for taking part in my little experiment. I'm actually in the final year of my residency. Those were my actual stats (or as close to them as I could remember). I got in to my #1 choice school on my first try by applying Early Decision. Most of my interview centered around my "useless" missions experience, which my school valued highly given that their mission was focused on underserved care and yes, medical missions. During school I did well on all of my USMLEs and matched at my #1 ranked residency program. And now I'm juggling several job offers.

Glad that I never knew about SDN back in the day. You guys would have discouraged me so much I may have never gotten to where I am today.

In the future when you are advising scared premeds, please remember that you do not know their entire application. You don't know everything about the schools they are applying to or the details of their applications. Do not automatically say that someone has "no chance of getting into an MD school" unless you know the stats of every single MD school or sit on the admissions committee of each one. Do not assume that every school in the US has the same values or statistics as your own.

Can't we just be encouraging? There are ways to point out weaknesses in applications (which were definitely present in my own stats) without being rude or putting people down.

My best advice for someone looking to apply to medical school? There are no absolutes. And don't believe anyone who tells you there are.
Click to expand...
 
Now you've got me concerned about my ECs…

what do you consider clinical experience? I have some but I would like to add anything I haven't already done to make myself as competitive as an applicant as possible.

I appreciate all the feedback and advice! they are only trying to help and are being as realistic as possible. congratulations on your success @WINNING@premed

@Goro @gyngyn
 
WINNING@premed said:
Guys, thanks for taking part in my little experiment. I'm actually in the final year of my residency. Those were my actual stats (or as close to them as I could remember). I got in to my #1 choice school on my first try by applying Early Decision. Most of my interview centered around my "useless" missions experience, which my school valued highly given that their mission was focused on underserved care and yes, medical missions. During school I did well on all of my USMLEs and matched at my #1 ranked residency program. And now I'm juggling several job offers.

Glad that I never knew about SDN back in the day. You guys would have discouraged me so much I may have never gotten to where I am today.

In the future when you are advising scared premeds, please remember that you do not know their entire application. You don't know everything about the schools they are applying to or the details of their applications. Do not automatically say that someone has "no chance of getting into an MD school" unless you know the stats of every single MD school or sit on the admissions committee of each one. Do not assume that every school in the US has the same values or statistics as your own.

Can't we just be encouraging? There are ways to point out weaknesses in applications (which were definitely present in my own stats) without being rude or putting people down.

My best advice for someone looking to apply to medical school? There are no absolutes. And don't believe anyone who tells you there are.
Click to expand...



Congratulations on your success. Before you judge everyone for being harsh. Take your stats and check the graph of matriculating applicant stats. Then look at the cost of applying to medical school.

So you would rather an applicant that has an extremely low chance of getting into medical school to waste his/her money on the expensive applications process?

FYI, I had bad stats early on in ugrad and someone gave me honest criticism. It was discouraging at first but the criticism gave me direction. I was recently accepted to an MD school near my parents so I'm definitely thankful for the criticism.
 
OP, if you are in your final year of residency then you applied to medical school at least 8 years ago. What was acceptable then in terms of GPA and MCAT and what was impressive in terms of experience (shadowing and mission trips) has changed. Furthermore, early decision is very risky - when it works out it is great (except that the school has no incentive to give you merit aid given that you've already agreed to matriculate if admitted) but if it does not work out the applicant is almost sure to need to apply in a second cycle due to timing issues that then raises questions about what was wrong with them that they weren't admitted on the first try.

Until YOU sit on at least one admissions committee for at least one cycle, you don't have enough data points to advise current applicants that a 3.6/27 and some mission trips is enough to get them into their top choice school.
 
Goro said:
MD schools? No.

DO schools? No

ECs are very weak. No clinical volunteering? Kiss of death. The missions don't count.

You need to show us that you know what you're getting into and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, would his numbers still be good enough to grant him an interview, or would his lack of clinical volunteering prevent him from even getting a chance to set foot on campus?
 
Clinical experience is dealing directly with patients...or, at the minimum according to our own LizzyM, being able to smell them. This would include things like volunteering or working in hospital (be labs don't count, unless you're doing phlebotomy), clinics, nursing homes, hospice, Planned Parenthood, suicide or crisis hotlines, or working at camps for sick kids.

Now you've got me concerned about my ECs…

what do you consider clinical experience? I have some but I would like to add anything I haven't already done to make myself as competitive as an applicant as possible.

Because my school doesn't pre-screen, OP would get an II at my school, and he;d be wait listed. My student interviewers would eat him alive.


GypsyHummus said:
Out of curiosity, would his numbers still be good enough to grant him an interview, or would his lack of clinical volunteering prevent him from even getting a chance to set foot on campus?
Click to expand...
 
WINNING@premed said:
Guys, thanks for taking part in my little experiment. I'm actually in the final year of my residency. Those were my actual stats (or as close to them as I could remember). I got in to my #1 choice school on my first try by applying Early Decision. Most of my interview centered around my "useless" missions experience, which my school valued highly given that their mission was focused on underserved care and yes, medical missions. During school I did well on all of my USMLEs and matched at my #1 ranked residency program. And now I'm juggling several job offers.

Glad that I never knew about SDN back in the day. You guys would have discouraged me so much I may have never gotten to where I am today.

In the future when you are advising scared premeds, please remember that you do not know their entire application. You don't know everything about the schools they are applying to or the details of their applications. Do not automatically say that someone has "no chance of getting into an MD school" unless you know the stats of every single MD school or sit on the admissions committee of each one. Do not assume that every school in the US has the same values or statistics as your own.

Can't we just be encouraging? There are ways to point out weaknesses in applications (which were definitely present in my own stats) without being rude or putting people down.

My best advice for someone looking to apply to medical school? There are no absolutes. And don't believe anyone who tells you there are.
Click to expand...
7-8 years ago, your stats would have been more competitive. The applicant market has tightened up a lot since the recession hit if you look at the numbers. To extrapolate your n=1 experience to the premeds applying now would be quite faulty on several levels. Someone with your application today would likely have to significantly broaden their application pool to stand a good chance of getting in anywhere.
 
To clarify a few things:
according to this year's MSAR, my stats would still be fine at the school I went to, which was a well established US MD school that focuses on producing primary care doctors and actually has an extremely high USMLE pass rate and Match rate.

I DID serve on the admissions committee at that school during my fourth year and did interview several people with stats similar to my own. And at a school where the average MCAT is a 28 and the average entering GPA is a 3.7, my stats were actually still within the realm of possible admission.

I am not extrapolating my numbers to current or future applicants. That was not my point. My point was that you cannot give solid advice without knowing a person's entire story. You cannot put down someone's application if you don't understand the schools they are applying to and those schools' stats and values. My school valued missions experience. They valued my undergrad experience. I carefully researched schools and found one that my stats worked for. Thus I don't think I "won the lottery" by applying to a school where I actually had a shot. I know that my stats weren't perfect. That's not the point. But my stats were more than acceptable for the school that I picked. And that's an important thing to advise premeds of. Why apply to a hundred schools where you clearly don't have a shot when you can apply to 10 where you do have a decent shot? That's exactly what I did, and hence my stats weren't so improbable or terrible after all.

Anyway, y'all carry on. I'm out.
 
If you look at the chances when you applied, you had something like a 40-60% chance, roughly twice what your chances are today (or 1.5-2 times, depending how you slice it). Even beyond that, there is the qualitative side of things, like how nearly 80% (this figure is just a rough estimate from memory) have research experience, which you did not report anything. Also, you had a relative dearth of volunteering experiences compared to how much volunteering you see nowadays.

So if you look at your worst case scenario today (a 20% chance), for every one of you, four other students were turned down. Even on the brightest side (40% looking at your cGPA), which would be generous considering your repeat MCAT with no improvement and low science GPA and lack of volunteering and no research, for every one of you, another student would get turned away. I still stand by what I said and don't think I was being particularly severe.

At any rate, these sorts of things require honesty. By analogy, a doctor needs to be honest, and say you have 6 months to live, even though there will be people who live longer. By the very nature of these things, to be responsible means to be conservative. If you want someone to tell you that "you'll be fine honey, you'll make it" talk to your mom. If you want an honest and unabashed account, come to SDN.

Anyways, given that you were twice as likely to make it in then compared to now, and even now you had a 40% on the most optimistic side of things, I don't think you should be surprised.
 
@WINNING@premed

State of residence? URM? Which undergrad that has a christian affiliated medical school?

1) This was 8 years ago, it's actually hilarious that you think you could pull this off today.
2) Affirmative action helps white females to a considerable degree. If you actually are URM, I think we have our answer.
3) You use "y'all" a lot. I'm suspecting a southern or midwest school. If you were instate of one those schools, I think we have our answer again.

It's cute that you think your "whole story" paired with you mediocre stats got you accepted, when there's so many other forces at play. It's even more cute that you don't believe 8 years changes anything.
 
I don't see what the point of having this thread? Did the OP just create this thread to "feel" good about herself for getting into medical school with an "average" stats? Yes, of course everyone understand that you cannot judge a student's application based on numbers alone. The experiences can add weight to their applications. Anyways, I agree that some advice on SDN can be a bit "harsh" sometimes, but often they are very good and truthful. The point of having this forum is you can search around and "learn" more to make yourself become a better candidate for medical schools, residency, etc. I probably will be using SDN to improve my application for residency. Information and knowledge is power in today world.
 
WINNING@premed said:
My point was that you cannot give solid advice without knowing a person's entire story.
Click to expand...
Of course knowing the applicant's whole story would allow for better advice. But when someone posts, as you did, without giving all the details, we are limited. Should we just refuse to advise anyone who doesn't outline every aspect of their application? I don't think anyone should say "you have absolutely no chance," but suggesting things to improve your chances (apply DO as well, do a postbac) isn't bad advice. Sure, it worked out for you to apply ED, but it wouldn't work for everyone.
 
The point OP was trying to make is completely lost by the fact that she applied more than 8 years ago. The landscape has completely changed since that time and even in the few years since I started med school.
 
darkjedi said:
The point OP was trying to make is completely lost by the fact that she applied more than 8 years ago. The landscape has completely changed since that time and even in the few years since I started med school.
Click to expand...

Talk about change, when I got into MD school in the mid 70's the only thing they looked at was grade point and MCAT. Interviews were not that common. I did not get interviewed at U of I Chicago where I matriculated.
 
WINNING@premed said:
Guys, thanks for taking part in my little experiment. I'm actually in the final year of my residency. Those were my actual stats (or as close to them as I could remember). I got in to my #1 choice school on my first try by applying Early Decision. Most of my interview centered around my "useless" missions experience, which my school valued highly given that their mission was focused on underserved care and yes, medical missions. During school I did well on all of my USMLEs and matched at my #1 ranked residency program. And now I'm juggling several job offers.

Glad that I never knew about SDN back in the day. You guys would have discouraged me so much I may have never gotten to where I am today.

In the future when you are advising scared premeds, please remember that you do not know their entire application. You don't know everything about the schools they are applying to or the details of their applications. Do not automatically say that someone has "no chance of getting into an MD school" unless you know the stats of every single MD school or sit on the admissions committee of each one. Do not assume that every school in the US has the same values or statistics as your own.

Can't we just be encouraging? There are ways to point out weaknesses in applications (which were definitely present in my own stats) without being rude or putting people down.

My best advice for someone looking to apply to medical school? There are no absolutes. And don't believe anyone who tells you there are.
Click to expand...
We are not 8 years ago in time, and honestly, we have no clue what other caveats there were in your application. For all we know you're from a state that accepts really weak applicants due to being rural or you're part of a minority group.
 
I've never heard of a Christian MD program besides Loma Linda. Can you please tell us where you attended OP?
 
WINNING@premed said:
To clarify a few things:
according to this year's MSAR, my stats would still be fine at the school I went to, which was a well established US MD school that focuses on producing primary care doctors and actually has an extremely high USMLE pass rate and Match rate.

I DID serve on the admissions committee at that school during my fourth year and did interview several people with stats similar to my own. And at a school where the average MCAT is a 28 and the average entering GPA is a 3.7, my stats were actually still within the realm of possible admission.

I am not extrapolating my numbers to current or future applicants. That was not my point. My point was that you cannot give solid advice without knowing a person's entire story. You cannot put down someone's application if you don't understand the schools they are applying to and those schools' stats and values. My school valued missions experience. They valued my undergrad experience. I carefully researched schools and found one that my stats worked for. Thus I don't think I "won the lottery" by applying to a school where I actually had a shot. I know that my stats weren't perfect. That's not the point. But my stats were more than acceptable for the school that I picked. And that's an important thing to advise premeds of. Why apply to a hundred schools where you clearly don't have a shot when you can apply to 10 where you do have a decent shot? That's exactly what I did, and hence my stats weren't so improbable or terrible after all.

Anyway, y'all carry on. I'm out.
Click to expand...

So FSU?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
i need as much advice as i can get.
Replies
6
Views
922
Faha
F
alphabetstreets
How Can I Get Into an MD Program? Need Strategy!
Replies
10
Views
918
alphabetstreets
alphabetstreets
C
My stats, where can I apply
Replies
3
Views
748
Faha
F
6
  • Locked
How can I improve my app?
Replies
3
Views
687
679566
6
M
WAMC to get into UT Dell? 3.9/510
Replies
0
Views
571
mynamejef
M
Top