Can I get into an MSN program after failing medical school?

[the toad]

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Does anyone know if this happens? I failed a rotation towards the end of my 3rd year and was dismissed from school. 🙁

I know it's going to look really bad because I failed. I've also been told they aren't going to like that I went to med school first because it'll look like I'm settling for MSN/NP when I really wanted to be a doctor.

What do you guys think? I appreciate all input. 🙂

Edit: I was easily able to get into an accelerated BSN/MSN program.

 

[pamac]

Does anyone know if this happen? I failed a rotation towards the end of my 3rd year and was dismissed from school. 🙁

I know it's going to look really bad because I failed. I've also been told they aren't going to like that I went to med school first because it'll look like I'm settling for MSN/NP when I really wanted to be a doctor.

What do you guys think? I appreciate all input. 🙂

So there's no way you can get back into medicine somehow? You'd rather go back to school to be a nurse?

I bet you can find a school that will take you if you decide you have to. If there is any good news about going to nursing school for you is it will be easy. So pick up a hobby for all the time you won't have to put into studying, or even paying attention in class.

 

[Makati2008]

There is more to this than a single failed rotation? Also student loans will be an issue as well

 

[the toad]

There is more to this than a single failed rotation? Also student loans will be an issue as well

Well it was technically two, which is what it takes to be dismissed. It was family medicine, which is twice as long as the other rotations, so it counts as two instead of one. I wasn't told about failing either until I had completed the "second" (at the same place, with the same doctors) and then completed (and passed) my next rotation.

 

[pamac]

Well it was technically two, which is what it takes to be dismissed. It was family medicine, which is twice as long as the other rotations, so it counts as two instead of one. I wasn't told about failing either until I had completed the "second" (at the same place, with the same doctors) and then completed (and passed) my next rotation.

I don't know how appeals work in your world, but I'd fight that battle to the death before I went to nursing/NP school.

But no... I don't think you will have that hard of a time finding some place to land in the nursing world if you are set on it. Peoples response will probably be like mine where they are a surprised. There probably will be places that will reject you, likely because you would intimidate them simply because of where you just were, but I bet someone will bite. I'm guessing it wont even approch the difficulty of getting into med school. One avenue to take would be to find a place that uses some kind of application rubric, where you can see exactly what they evaluate you on as far as prereqs and such. That would take out the subjectivity factor from someone who would deny you entry. They are hesitant to go against what score you pulled on the rubric because they would have to justify it in any kind of audit if you complained about being denied.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[saywhatsup]

Do whatever your heart tells you. I at 1 point was stuck btwn medical school, dental, and nursing. I ultimately chose nursing due to the financial incentives I was being offered at the time. I will graduate from nursing school with only about 17k in debt. I saw med school would take me to about 250-300k in debt, dental school would push me to about 300-400k in debt. When they stopped giving free interest loans for Masters and Doctoral students, i knew I didn't want to go that route of financial burden. So nursing debt was very miniscule compared to the other 2 choices. What also helped me to make my decision was that I have a job waiting for me upon graduation and that the hospital was going to pay for my graduate training as a Nurse Practitioner or CRNA, so I wouldn't have to worry about taking out any loans and could start saving up for retirement right away. They also will allow me to work on weekends if I want so I can make money while I'm in school as well. Being a male, the promotional opportunities are also very good and I really liked that I could work overtime and make more money if I wanted to. Overall That's What pushed me to nursing, It's really a great field. I also liked that I could work 3-12 hour shifts and have 4 days off. All this combined with an increase in males entering the profession, and the switch over to the DNP, the expanding role of NP's. I saw that it's really an exciting time to enter the profession, So did!. You should consider entry level- masters programs or you could get your RN and then go for your doctorate later. If you want you could consider taking another crack at med school. You have plenty of options! good luck!!!! Remember though nursing school is very challenging and in some instances you'll deal with life and death situations. Your training will be a valuable asset and will help you in nursing school. Overall be proud of your accomplishments and never give up!! medical and nursing are 2 highly regarded professions and each plays a critical role in the healthcare system, we rely on each other, that's y there a team!

 

[pamac]

Do whatever your heart tells you. I at 1 point was stuck btwn medical school, dental, and nursing. I ultimately chose nursing due to the financial incentives I was being offered at the time. I will graduate from nursing school with only about 17k in debt. I saw med school would take me to about 250-300k in debt, dental school would push me to about 300-400k in debt. When they stopped giving free interest loans for Masters and Doctoral students, i knew I didn't want to go that route of financial burden. So nursing debt was very miniscule compared to the other 2 choices. What also helped me to make my decision was that I have a job waiting for me upon graduation and that the hospital was going to pay for my graduate training as a Nurse Practitioner or CRNA, so I wouldn't have to worry about taking out any loans and could start saving up for retirement right away. They also will allow me to work on weekends if I want so I can make money while I'm in school as well. Being a male, the promotional opportunities are also very good and I really liked that I could work overtime and make more money if I wanted to. Overall That's What pushed me to nursing, It's really a great field. I also liked that I could work 3-12 hour shifts and have 4 days off. All this combined with an increase in males entering the profession, and the switch over to the DNP, the expanding role of NP's. I saw that it's really an exciting time to enter the profession, So did!. You should consider entry level- masters programs or you could get your RN and then go for your doctorate later. If you want you could consider taking another crack at med school. You have plenty of options! good luck!!!! Remember though nursing school is very challenging and in some instances you'll deal with life and death situations. Your training will be a valuable asset and will help you in nursing school. Overall be proud of your accomplishments and never give up!! medical and nursing are 2 highly regarded professions and each plays a critical role in the healthcare system, we rely on each other, that's y there a team!

Thats similar to my story as well. I was pre dental, had awesome DAT scores and fairly mediocre grades. Looked at PA school and was about to go to a couple interviews when I found out I got into nursing school down the road at the community college. The hospital I work at paid for my education (which was super cheap anyway)and worked my schedule so I could maintain full time while I went to school. They fit me into the department I want, and I'll finish up my bachelors and masters and continue to be reimbursed as I go through NP. I wish I had done this 8 years ago so I could have been pouring more into my 401k early on. Theres a lot to be said for being debt free.

 

[pamac]

That being said, the differences between being a doctor and a nurse are legion. Even the difference between NPP and doctor are large. I'd think that settling (and this is settleing in its truest form) would be extremely difficult, especially with the money already paid, and the med school portion of the training close to complete.

 

[saywhatsup]

Thats similar to my story as well. I was pre dental, had awesome DAT scores and fairly mediocre grades. Looked at PA school and was about to go to a couple interviews when I found out I got into nursing school down the road at the community college. The hospital I work at paid for my education (which was super cheap anyway)and worked my schedule so I could maintain full time while I went to school. They fit me into the department I want, and I'll finish up my bachelors and masters and continue to be reimbursed as I go through NP. I wish I had done this 8 years ago so I could have been pouring more into my 401k early on. Theres a lot to be said for being debt free.

Def, I could be a dentist if I wanted too, but nursing to me is just more appealing due to many reasons....I more thing i forget to mention. If I would of went the md/dmd route i'd also have to move out of state and leave family/friends behind and essentially live alone. All the more reason y i chose nursing. It's all about finding your fit and what your looking to accomplish. I'm working right now making good money while i'm in school, it's great!

 

[the toad]

That being said, the differences between being a doctor and a nurse are legion. Even the difference between NPP and doctor are large. I'd think that settling (and this is settleing in its truest form) would be extremely difficult, especially with the money already paid, and the med school portion of the training close to complete.

what are the differences in NP and a family doc as far as daily work is concerned? I was under the impression that they are pretty similar. No?

 

[pamac]

what are the differences in NP and a family doc as far as daily work is concerned? I was under the impression that they are pretty similar. No?

Thats a good point. Salary would be the biggest thing. Beyond that you get into autonomy, practice ownership/partnership, knowlege gained from residency. It would be nice that you have the knowlege of pathophys from your time in med school.

I'm not the kind of person that gets hung up on being top dog in the clinical situation, so NP doesnt offer me any conflicts.

 

[saywhatsup]

An NP role is similar to a physician's. You treat, diagnose and prescribe. However a physician's knowledge is much more in depth/wider since they have to go through much more education/training. I'm personally satisfied with where I'm at, I'm not looking to become the top dog on the food chain. I personally also prefer the holistic model employed in nursing, I would like to look at the patient as a whole. MD's are very good at treating illnesses and diseases, that's what their trained to do. Overall, there really is no substitute for medical school, but I am more then satisfied where I'm at and see no need to make the leap, esp. with all the financial incentives I already have. Good Luck! Mr Toad.

 

[the toad]

Thats a good point. Salary would be the biggest thing. Beyond that you get into autonomy, practice ownership/partnership, knowlege gained from residency. It would be nice that you have the knowlege of pathophys from your time in med school.

I'm not the kind of person that gets hung up on being top dog in the clinical situation, so NP doesnt offer me any conflicts.

Me either. I've never cared about being a "doctor," it was the work that I was interested in and cared about.

 

[the toad]

An NP role is similar to a physician's. You treat, diagnose and prescribe. However a physician's knowledge is much more in depth/wider since they have to go through much more education/training. I'm personally satisfied with where I'm at, I'm not looking to become the top dog on the food chain. I personally also prefer the holistic model employed in nursing, I would like to look at the patient as a whole. MD's are very good at treating illnesses and diseases, that's what their trained to do. Overall, there really is no substitute for medical school, but I am more then satisfied where I'm at and see no need to make the leap, esp. with all the financial incentives I already have. Good Luck! Mr Toad.

thanks 🙂

 

[fab4fan]

Well it was technically two, which is what it takes to be dismissed. It was family medicine, which is twice as long as the other rotations, so it counts as two instead of one. I wasn't told about failing either until I had completed the "second" (at the same place, with the same doctors) and then completed (and passed) my next rotation.

Is the only reason you're looking at an MSN program is because you want it as a fall back position? Really, all things being equal, would you rather be an MSN or an MD? Do you think you're going to be happy as a nurse if you get in a program?

 

[the toad]

Is the only reason you're looking at an MSN program is because you want it as a fall back position? Really, all things being equal, would you rather be an MSN or an MD? Do you think you're going to be happy as a nurse if you get in a program?

I think I could be happy as a nurse practitioner, not so much a regular nurse.

 

[Makati2008]

The other thing is that this is bad for the NP profession(like it would be for the PA one) to have someone walk right into one of these programs that couldn't cut it in medical school. It makes our educations seem like a breeze.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

The other thing is that this is bad for the NP profession(like it would be for the PA one) to have someone walk right into one of these programs that couldn't cut it in medical school. It makes our educations seem like a breeze.

The sad truth is that some NP education probably is a breeze. It's unfortunate, but the reality is that NP programs seem to vary a lot in quality and intensity. I'd argue that my program is quite rigorous, but that's not always the norm. However, I've noticed that employers seem to be catching wind of this and are paying much closer attention to the prospective NP's school when making hiring decisions. Plus, bigger schools affiliated with large academic medical centers have better networking and training sites, so that's probably part of it.

 

[GolgeeDrinkRocks]

Do accelerated BSN then DNP. Research

 

[deleted6669]

The other thing is that this is bad for the NP profession(like it would be for the PA one) to have someone walk right into one of these programs that couldn't cut it in medical school. It makes our educations seem like a breeze.

folks who fail out of med school typically CAN'T get into PA school...

 

[matthewandrew]

It's possible with your bachelors to apply to an entry level RN MSN program. But please understand that it's a bit offensive to nurses when you say you are just settling for our profession.


———————————
UCLA FNP Class of 2016

 

[PikminOC]

folks who fail out of med school typically CAN'T get into PA school...

Yes they can. The admissions is not based on their performance in medical school.

 

[Zenman1]

Me either. I've never cared about being a "doctor," it was the work that I was interested in and cared about.

You might consider working for the military as an NP. I just finished 2 years as a contractor with the Army. My contract ran out and I switched over to a GS position and started right back to work after 2 days off. Two physicians had to leave as their contracts ran out. I love my job and spent almost 2 years covering a morning walk-in clinic. All the providers were glad to let me do it as previously everyone had to take turns. It was great because I'd see everyone's patients and could see how they all practiced. No physician ever complained if I changed meds or for any other reason. I'd see patients who needed to get started on meds prior to their initial intake, those having side effects, suicidal, needing hospital admission, meds not working, etc.. I'd see my own caseload in the afternoon. Now, I'm the sole prescriber for an embedded behavioral health team, with psychologists, social workers, and therapists covering a brigade. It's true physicians have a much broader knowledge base, some which may have been a waste of time, effort and money, however much can be said for what you bring to the table. I always felt bad when patients requested to switch to me after having seen me in the walk-in clinic. Therapists are telling me that patients are happy after med changes for the better. A patient came in Friday and told me he heard I was good. I changed 3 of his meds for 2 new ones. I'm not bragging on myself, just telling you that what you put into your job will benefit you, and I put a lot into it. I listen to patients when they tell me their previous provider never listened, wouldn't change meds and just kept upping the dosages, etc.. The only thing I do different from some of the physicians is that I don't see anyone under 18. I don't do a suboxone clinic. I have a collaborative agreement which is kept in a desk drawer until it's time to sign it yearly. And my boss, or one of the chiefs has to co-sign, any prior authorizations for non-formulary med requests. I've been cautioned once for writing a nasty letter if a certain med was not approved for a patient. You might want to look at the benefits of being a government employee. Holy crap, if I'd known what they were I'd have been doing this 30 years ago!

 

[moy505]

Yes they can. The admissions is not based on their performance in medical school.

I don't believe you are correct. I've been looking online for this info and it seems PA schools do let students that left med school in good standing, but if someone fails med school then PA chances are very slim. PA schools also require transcripts from every institution you have attended so you can't simply hide it.

 

[PikminOC]

I don't believe you are correct. I've been looking online for this info and it seems PA schools do let students that left med school in good standing, but if someone fails med school then PA chances are very slim. PA schools also require transcripts from every institution you have attended so you can't simply hide it.

Wow, this is a gravedig for sure. I have many patients who had many major problems in Med school or residency who landed in PA school.

 

[Makati2008]

I don't believe you are correct. I've been looking online for this info and it seems PA schools do let students that left med school in good standing, but if someone fails med school then PA chances are very slim. PA schools also require transcripts from every institution you have attended so you can't simply hide it.

Agreed. Heck I know of two of my former classmates that are know midlevels.

 

[moy505]

Wow, this is a gravedig for sure. I have many patients who had many major problems in Med school or residency who landed in PA school.

Ya sorry for the gravedig. I was just looking into this topic. Well if they landed in residency that means they passed med school. Obviously you don't need to be an above average med student to get into PA school but if you failed out then PA school is tough to get into.

You seemed confident in your post so I was jc if you could elaborate on your claims. I have nothing against ppl leaving med school to go PA. Its just from talking to ppl, including a PA adcom, that I think it would be extremely difficult if one failed med school.

 

[moy505]

Agreed. Heck I know of two of my former classmates that are know midlevels.

Agreed with me or with @GroverPsychMD ? Do you know if PA schools let students in that failed classes in med school?

 

[Makati2008]

Agreed with me or with @GroverPsychMD ? Do you know if PA schools let students in that failed classes in med school?

Grover

 

[niko327]

It is highly unlikely that you will be accepted to PA school if you failed out of med school. PA school has lots of very academically qualified applicants, it doesn't seem reasonable that they would roll the dice on anyone iffy. Just call around and ask.