Can I get into medical school with just average grades/mcat?

[ataha]

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If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

 

[TheGloaming]

If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

A 3.7 is definitely good enough... average MCAT is too vague, what's your breakdown?... You should also provide more info on your EC's... This also belongs in What are my chances

 

[BABSstudent]

Well, depends on a number of factors.

Could you break down your score? When you say average, do you mean average score of acceptance or average score of the MCAT? And is the score balanced or did you get like a 28 with a 2 in verbal?

Apply early and broadly tends to be the advice given to below stellar stats. I feel like this applies to you too.

 

[WorldChanger36]

If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

Yes as long as your cumGPA is about the same as your sciGPA and by average MCAT you mean a 30 and by average shadowing hours you mean around 40.

 

[MedPR]

If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

The fact that you didn't actually tell us your MCAT score makes me believe it's below average.

 

[jesse120]

short answer: yes

but you status says pre-dental. you really need to be sure which one, medicine or dentistry, is right for you.

 

[circulus vitios]

On SDN: No, never. You need at least a 3.8/34; 300 hours of clinical volunteering; 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering; 2 years of research with at least a dozen poster presentations; one or more medical mission trips; membership to at least a half-dozen clubs; and a unique hobby like unicycle fire dancing.

Outside of SDN: Absolutely.

From AAMC, 2011 matriculant stats:
Average Overall GPA: 3.67
Average Non-Science GPA: 3.74
Average Science GPA: 3.61
Average MCAT: 31.1 (10.8 BS, 10.4 PS, 9.8 VR)

Do some shadowing (50-100 hours) and some clinical and/or non-clinical volunteering (100-150 hours) spread across a year or more.

Apply to schools wisely i.e. don't apply to schools that rarely accept out of state applicants, don't apply to schools that are clearly out of reach, and don't apply to research-heavy schools if you don't have any research experience.

 

[ataha]

I haven't taken the mcat yet, I'm taking physics II next semester and going to take it after that. I'm obviously shooting for the highest score that I can but I'm curious as to what's the least I can get.

Question, if I'm looking into a competitive residency like dermatology, is DO better than a Caribbean school?

 

[Hemorrage]

I haven't taken the mcat yet, I'm taking physics II next semester and going to take it after that. I'm obviously shooting for the highest score that I can but I'm curious as to what's the least I can get.

Question, if I'm looking into a competitive residency like dermatology, is DO better than a Caribbean school?

DO is far better than a Caribbean school.

 

[tiedyeddog]

If your live in florida as your location says you do I would say for sure, most definitely.

 

[theseeker4]

I haven't taken the mcat yet, I'm taking physics II next semester and going to take it after that. I'm obviously shooting for the highest score that I can but I'm curious as to what's the least I can get.

Question, if I'm looking into a competitive residency like dermatology, is DO better than a Caribbean school?

If you have a 3.7, why would "DO vs Caribbean" even be part of the conversation? And just to be clear, no matter what you want to go into, if you want to practice in the US, DO is always better than Caribbean.

 

[circulus vitios]

If you have a 3.7, why would "DO vs Caribbean" even be part of the conversation? And just to be clear, no matter what you want to go into, if you want to practice in the US, DO is always better than Caribbean.

Because he reads too much SDN, and because he thinks his extra curricular activities are too weak (which they aren't, provided he does some shadowing and volunteering.)

 

[DolFAN]

If there's one thing that I've learned from SDN is that in order to get into ANY medical school you need to have a 3.8+ GPA with 35+ MCAT and apply as soon as apps are open. If you apply later than that you're def not getting in. Also for EC's SDN recommends you have at LEAST 3 publications and have shadowed for 10000 hrs, along with starting your own nonprofit organization but thats a given.

If you do meet me any of these critera you might as well quit now and look for a career elsewhere.

 

[Etorphine]

If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

yes, it is possible, but your acceptance statistics are lower. How much lower is up to debate; with solid numbers from a good school, you still have a solid shot.

It is analogous to a quote my PI once said, "You don't have to drink to have a good time. But why take a chance?"

 

[Miss Terious]

If there's one thing that I've learned from SDN is that in order to get into ANY medical school you need to have a 3.8+ GPA with 35+ MCAT and apply as soon as apps are open. If you apply later than that you're def not getting in. Also for EC's SDN recommends you have at LEAST 3 publications and have shadowed for 10000 hrs, along with starting your own nonprofit organization but thats a given.

If you do meet me any of these critera you might as well quit now and look for a career elsewhere.

+1

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[K M R]

If there's one thing that I've learned from SDN is that in order to get into ANY medical school you need to have a 3.8+ GPA with 35+ MCAT and apply as soon as apps are open. If you apply later than that you're def not getting in. Also for EC's SDN recommends you have at LEAST 3 publications and have shadowed for 10000 hrs, along with starting your own nonprofit organization but thats a given.

If you do meet me any of these critera you might as well quit now and look for a career elsewhere.

Don't forget at least three multi-year volunteer commitments, each requiring 2000 hours each or more.

 

[Ironmandoc]

Don't forget at least three multi-year volunteer commitments, each requiring 2000 hours each or more.

And you need to be a regular contributor to the New England Journal of Medicine

 

[Sephiroth]

On SDN: No, never. You need at least a 3.8/34; 300 hours of clinical volunteering; 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering; 2 years of research with at least a dozen poster presentations; one or more medical mission trips; membership to at least a half-dozen clubs; and a unique hobby like unicycle fire dancing.

Lolnoob. Everyone knows SDN despises medical mission trips (actually I think thats legitimate). And you have to be a founder of at least one successful club and become president of another. And if you've done 2 years of research with no journal article to show for it, obviously you just can't cut it.

If your live in florida as your location says you do I would say for sure, most definitely.

Yes, a good friend of mine got into FSU early decision with a 25 MCAT

 

[TheShaker]

And you need to be a regular contributor to the New England Journal of Medicine

Do you think my Nature publication will suffice? I could've gotten it into Cell but I think publishing it in a lower journal shows humility.

 

[gettheleadout]

On SDN: No, never. You need at least a 3.8/34; 300 hours of clinical volunteering; 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering; 2 years of research with at least a dozen poster presentations; one or more medical mission trips; membership to at least a half-dozen clubs; and a unique hobby like unicycle fire dancing.

People make this argument, but if you look in the What Are My Chances? subforum you'll see that SDN is quite reasonable in "chancing" applicants that have normal numbers.

Do you think my Nature publication will suffice? I could've gotten it into Cell but I think publishing it in a lower journal shows humility.

Going by the main Nature journal and the main Cell journal, Nature has a higher impact factor. 😛

 

[scarshapedstar]

Do you think my Nature publication will suffice? I could've gotten it into Cell but I think publishing it in a lower journal shows humility.

Unfortunately, humility isn't what they're after, but a little Stockholm gold will fix things up for you.

 

[ataha]

If your live in florida as your location says you do I would say for sure, most definitely.

Why do you say that? Is shadowing and some volunteer hours at my local hospital enough?

 

[ataha]

Thanks to everyone who helped (and thanks to those who made fun of my insecurities as well lol)

 

[tiedyeddog]

Why do you say that? Is shadowing and some volunteer hours at my local hospital enough?

There are many schools in Florida, even some new ones. High in state bias. You'll be fine.

 

[Socrates25]

If i have a 3.7science gpa.. and average mcat and shadowing hours is that enough to get in somewhere?

I see so many impressive applications with tons of EC's and people still saying their EC's aren't impressive so it's kind of intimidating.

Med school is easy to get into if you dont care where you go. A 3.4 and a 26 MCAT will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

 

[scarshapedstar]

a 3.4 and a 26 mcat will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

2.5/10

 

[gettheleadout]

med school is easy to get into if you dont care where you go. A 3.4 and a 26 mcat will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

2.5/10

lol

 

[Dave89]

If you have at least a 32 MCAT (very realistic bar to set, assuming responsible studying), some minimal level of ECs (e.g. volunteering and shadowing), and are truly passionate about medicine, you will be fine.

And unless you get 35+, don't apply to Yale, UChicago, WashU, etc.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Med school is easy to get into if you dont care where you go. A 3.4 and a 26 MCAT will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

Unless you're a urm, that stat combo will get you in exactly nowhere.

I think a 3.5/29 is more realistic, personally.

 

[SpecterGT260]

if your stats are average for matriculation then: yes
if your stats are average for application then: no

It is important to remember what "average" means 😉

 

[ashylarry23]

believe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believe_(Cher_song)

 

[MedPR]

Med school is easy to get into if you dont care where you go. A 3.4 and a 26 MCAT will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

You're awfully optimistic. Those must be your stats?

Unless you're a urm, that stat combo will get you in exactly nowhere.

I think a 3.5/29 is more realistic, personally.

I think 3.5/29 is more realistic too, but still not high enough to "get you into a third tier trash program, no problem". A 3.5/29 will get you into a DO school, no problem. Unless you're a URM, it still might not be good enough for MD.

 

[Ironmandoc]

Med school is easy to get into if you dont care where you go. A 3.4 and a 26 MCAT will get you into a third tier trash program, no problem.

What exactly is a third tier trash program?

 

[Socrates25]

What exactly is a third tier trash program?

Rocky Vista
Campbell
Palm Beach
St Augustine
Marian
King
Western Michigan
Missouri Southern State
Mercer
WesternU/COMP

 

[Socrates25]

You're awfully optimistic. Those must be your stats?

LOL take a look around at all the new trash med schools opening, both MD and DO. It has become a joke to get accepted to those programs. Somebody posted in another thread that the average matriculant at places like PCOM is a 3.4/28. You telling me that you cant get into a bottom 25% DO program with a 3.4/26? BS!

Yes, if you want a top 50 allopathic program, then a 3.4/26 wont cut it. But a top 50 allopathic program only accounts for about 25% of all medical schools in the United States. The bottom 25% of schools will take anyone with a pulse.

 

[gettheleadout]

LOL take a look around at all the new trash med schools opening, both MD and DO. It has become a joke to get accepted to those programs. Somebody posted in another thread that the average matriculant at places like PCOM is a 3.4/28. You telling me that you cant get into a bottom 25% DO program with a 3.4/26? BS!

Yes, if you want a top 50 allopathic program, then a 3.4/26 wont cut it. But a top 50 allopathic program only accounts for about 25% of all medical schools in the United States. The bottom 25% of schools will take anyone with a pulse.

So which LCME-accredited MD schools do you think are trash?


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[Socrates25]

So which LCME-accredited MD schools do you think are trash?

Here's a good place to start -- some of these havent opened yet but when they do they will quickly become third tier trash because their idea of "clinical training" consists of having you move away to follow some scrub in a clinic in rural Alaska where you do nothing more than shadow a nurse all day.


Commonwealth
Mercer
Hofstra
Oakland
Central Michigan
FAU
FIU
King
Cooper
Quinnipiac

 

[SpecterGT260]

So which LCME-accredited MD schools do you think are trash?


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I think he is just talking about any of the new ones..... or possibly the URM specific ones as I have heard scary stories about a couple of those.

 

[gettheleadout]

Here's a good place to start -- some of these havent opened yet but when they do they will quickly become third tier trash because their idea of "clinical training" consists of having you move away to follow some scrub in a clinic in rural Alaska where you do nothing more than shadow a nurse all day.


Commonwealth
Mercer
Hofstra
Oakland
Central Michigan
FAU
FIU
King
Cooper
Quinnipiac

Okay, so focusing on just MD schools, you think these provide poor clinical education based on what? Do you also think the LCME is failing to properly regulate school obligations?


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[gettheleadout]

- Do is better than caribbean, but both will give you ever low odds of matching.


..... They're are plenty.


Id add KYCOM


He does have a point. Too many medical school -- not enough book smart people. We can't produce enough qualified applicants to meet the industrial medical school complexes' seats

I'm specifically talking about MD schools, and I call total BS on the "not enough book smart applicants" claim. Check the AAMC's stats on how many candidates with decent GPA's and 30+ MCAT scores don't get accepted anywhere every year and tell me we just don't have enough people smart enough.


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[circulus vitios]

LOL take a look around at all the new trash med schools opening, both MD and DO. It has become a joke to get accepted to those programs. Somebody posted in another thread that the average matriculant at places like PCOM is a 3.4/28. You telling me that you cant get into a bottom 25% DO program with a 3.4/26? BS!

Yes, if you want a top 50 allopathic program, then a 3.4/26 wont cut it. But a top 50 allopathic program only accounts for about 25% of all medical schools in the United States. The bottom 25% of schools will take anyone with a pulse.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this: there are only 19k seats for 42k applicants. They will not take anyone with a pulse.

 

[gettheleadout]

I think he is just talking about any of the new ones..... or possibly the URM specific ones as I have heard scary stories about a couple of those.

The HBCU criticisms have already been discussed elsewhere and not only am I not knowledgeable about that issue but discussing it will take this thread off topic and into flame land. I don't see how one can judge the quality of a school that hasn't opened yet simply based on the proposed plans for clinical rotation sites or whatever. You think the LCME will put its stamp of approval on a shoddy school?


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[SpecterGT260]

The HBCU criticisms have already been discussed elsewhere and not only am I not knowledgeable about that issue but discussing it will take this thread off topic and into flame land. I don't see how one can judge the quality of a school that hasn't opened yet simply based on the proposed plans for clinical rotation sites or whatever. You think the LCME will put its stamp of approval on a shoddy school?


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I wasnt intending to derail the thread but just give my interpretation of what he meant (he posted his list while I had the window up). 👍

No, i dont think we can judge the quality of an education as anything other than "unproven" when it comes to a new school. However "unproven" is potentially the problem. The LCME will endorse a school that meets their requirements and that is that. However the LCME does review on historical performance and that is simply not applicable at this time.

 

[MedPR]

LOL take a look around at all the new trash med schools opening, both MD and DO. It has become a joke to get accepted to those programs. Somebody posted in another thread that the average matriculant at places like PCOM is a 3.4/28. You telling me that you cant get into a bottom 25% DO program with a 3.4/26? BS!

Yes, if you want a top 50 allopathic program, then a 3.4/26 wont cut it. But a top 50 allopathic program only accounts for about 25% of all medical schools in the United States. The bottom 25% of schools will take anyone with a pulse.

Considering this is the pre-allo forum, it's safe to assume that everyone here is talking about MD schools, not DO.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this: there are only 19k seats for 42k applicants. They will not take anyone with a pulse.

+1.

 

[gettheleadout]

I wasnt intending to derail the thread but just give my interpretation of what he meant (he posted his list while I had the window up). 👍

No, i dont think we can judge the quality of an education as anything other than "unproven" when it comes to a new school. However "unproven" is potentially the problem. The LCME will endorse a school that meets their requirements and that is that. However the LCME does review on historical performance and that is simply not applicable at this time.

Oh I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were trying to derail the thread, I was just saying lets not go there lol...

I agree that every school must demonstrate the quality of its education through putting its first classes through, but I just meant that judging these new schools' education quality in general is preemptive; as you said we can't go further than saying there are results yet with which to judge the schools. If there is some concrete knowledge that a school will provide a crappy education then I find it unlikely this will not be addressed by the LCME prior to the school proceeding beyond provisional accreditation.

If Socrates has some reason to think that established schools are "trash" and provide poor medical education, I'd love to know why. I know of specific issues with specific schools that I think fail to provide students with the absolute best education and resources they can, but to claim that any given student cannot get a quality education from a US MD school requires evidence.


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[SpecterGT260]

Oh I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were trying to derail the thread, I was just saying lets not go there lol...

I agree that every school must demonstrate the quality of its education through putting its first classes through, but I just meant that judging these new schools' education quality in general is preemptive; as you said we can't go further than saying there are results yet with which to judge the schools. If there is some concrete knowledge that a school will provide a crappy education then I find it unlikely this will not be addressed by the LCME prior to the school proceeding beyond provisional accreditation.

If Socrates has some reason to think that established schools are "trash" and provide poor medical education, I'd love to know why. I know of specific issues with specific schools that I think fail to provide students with the absolute best education and resources they can, but to claim that any given student cannot get a quality education from a US MD school requires evidence.


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I would agree with that. Despite a few specific instances of problems I really cant think of much in the way of crappy programs. There are brand names, but these really dont offer anything you dont get at mid-tier schools. The LCME has set the bar pretty high, so if you are fully accredited chance are there isnt a whole lot of room to grow to begin with.

 

[MT Headed]

What exactly is a third tier trash program?

It's actually a reference to the third tier of Law Schools. The top tier is only 14 schools, and if you get in there you can pretty much count on a good job in corporate or federal law. I don't know how big the second tier is, but lately it has been difficult but not impossible to get a law-related job from a second tier law school. It might be a very low level, very low pay law job though. Third tier law schools, affectionately known as "Third Tier Trash" or TTT will guarantee that you will have extensive student debt and no possibility of a law job when you graduate. In today's law school environment they are basically a scam.

I've never heard the term Third Tier Trash applied to medical schools though. So far the LCME has been very tight on accreditation standards, and the number of post-graduate positions for medical school graduates (i.e. residency slots) is so much larger than the pool of MD graduates that the ACGME accepts DO graduates and even foreign-educated students to fill the residency gap.

 

[Lokhtar]

You will get into med school with average stats - though I am surprised you made it this far without knowing what 'average' means.

 

[235788]

It's actually a reference to the third tier of Law Schools. The top tier is only 14 schools, and if you get in there you can pretty much count on a good job in corporate or federal law. I don't know how big the second tier is, but lately it has been difficult but not impossible to get a law-related job from a second tier law school. It might be a very low level, very low pay law job though. Third tier law schools, affectionately known as "Third Tier Trash" or TTT will guarantee that you will have extensive student debt and no possibility of a law job when you graduate. In today's law school environment they are basically a scam.

I've never heard the term Third Tier Trash applied to medical schools though. So far the LCME has been very tight on accreditation standards, and the number of post-graduate positions for medical school graduates (i.e. residency slots) is so much larger than the pool of MD graduates that the ACGME accepts DO graduates and even foreign-educated students to fill the residency gap.

interesting.

Thank god I never felt the desire to become a lawyer.

 

[FattySlug]

You will get into med school with average stats - though I am surprised you made it this far without knowing what 'average' means.

I think he was fishing for some reassurance that his stat is fine.