Can I list my race as Black instead of Indian Asian?

[Stumpyman]

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Being indian, having a very indian name, and looking indian, then saying you're black- not a good idea.
But if you're Indian like me, but look hispanic, have a hispanic name, a tiny bit of heritage from a long time ago- now that's a different story.

joking- I'll probably check Indian when I apply.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Post a pic and let SDN decide.

 

[DrStraggler]

To be honest, that's like me saying I'm Middle Eastern because my grandfather was born in a Middle Eastern Country. However, I was born in a South Asian country, along with most of my family, and I was raised and lived in the United States of America.

Just because I have an arabic lineage, I can't say I'm Middle Eastern, because, predominantly my family is South Asian (and these two communities are WAY closer than African American and South Asian).

Also, just because I was raised in a predominantly Caucasian society doesn't mean I can call myself Caucasian.


Dude, Don't cheat the system, it's not fair to the people who actually are from URM's.


If you're really antsy about your ethnicity, don't put one at all, let the adcoms decide.

 

[phltz]

I think it's interesting that while someone with 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder white would widely be considered African-American in the US, everyone is freaking out so hard on this guy who has 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder South Asian and then wants to know if he can count as African American. It just highlights the special place that whiteness holds in our society - it just takes a little bit of contamination from some other race to wipe out even a majority of white ancestry, but the other does not hold true. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is ridiculous.

To the OP, although you've probably already made up your mind, just put down the race that you honestly feel you identify with the most. Race is already enough of a disastrous mess in the US without it being cynically gamed for admission into school and the like.

 

[Stumpyman]

I think it's interesting that while someone with 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder white would widely be considered African-American in the US, everyone is freaking out so hard on this guy who has 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder South Asian and then wants to know if he can count as African American. It just highlights the special place that whiteness holds in our society - it just takes a little bit of contamination from some other race to wipe out even a majority of white ancestry, but the other does not hold true. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is ridiculous.

To the OP, although you've probably already made up your mind, just put down the race that you honestly feel you identify with the most. Race is already enough of a disastrous mess in the US without it being cynically gamed for admission into school and the like.

I think most of us were just jealous he gets to be 1/8 african while we're not 😀

 

[NickNaylor]

I think it's interesting that while someone with 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder white would widely be considered African-American in the US, everyone is freaking out so hard on this guy who has 1/8th African ancestry and the remainder South Asian and then wants to know if he can count as African American. It just highlights the special place that whiteness holds in our society - it just takes a little bit of contamination from some other race to wipe out even a majority of white ancestry, but the other does not hold true. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is ridiculous.

To the OP, although you've probably already made up your mind, just put down the race that you honestly feel you identify with the most. Race is already enough of a disastrous mess in the US without it being cynically gamed for admission into school and the like.

You understand he's trolling, right?

 

[phltz]

You understand he's trolling, right?

That may well be so, but I think it's still interesting to see everyone's responses. Sometimes trolls are actually useful at helping make people's attitudes and beliefs true.

 

[Zuerst]

do you look black?

if not, hit the tanning salon

 

[Miss Alyssa]

I only read half of this thread (saw it disintegrated into the pre-allo race gibberish). I'm Caribbean too, Barbadian, and I've often wondered what Indo-Caribbeans put for such things. Last name is a poor predictor. You have black looking people in Trinidad carrying names like Singh and Kempadoo.

The choice is yours!

My family came to the US from Trinidad and are mostly of East Indian descent (my last name is Singh...pretty much the Smith of India) except for my maternal grandmother's father who was of African descent.

With my stats (3.57/32) and being a California resident I am trying to get as much of an advantage as possible when applying this cycle - hopefully my first and last time. I am applying as early as possible and am on top of my LOR writers. I am also scouting out secondaries from previous years and getting a head start on them. However, according to the AAMC matrix, individuals who self-reported as Asian with my stats has about a 50% chance of getting into an MD school while individuals who self-reported as Black or African American had about a 90% chance of getting into an MD school.

Just wondering what you guys think I should do.....

Thanks for the responses guys. I think I am just going to leave that section blank since it is optional and putting down Black wouldn't be in the spirit of the system and putting down Asian Indian wouldn't help me any.

The OP is probably more black than W.E.B. DuBois, one of the founders of the NAACP. If the OP had an African American grandfather, and were otherwise of caucasian descent, nobody would question it.

Also-assuming med schools discriminate against south Asians, and I am not sure they do- then still, the OP is not typically south Asian... his ancestry is Caribbean, and it wouldn't be fair to classify him with other south Asians.

All the more reason to judge people based on their merit, not on their race. We really shouldn't be in the business of 'classifying' human beings anyway.

 

[NickNaylor]

I only read half of this thread (saw it disintegrated into the pre-allo race gibberish). I'm Caribbean too, Barbadian, and I've often wondered what Indo-Caribbeans put for such things. Last name is a poor predictor. You have black looking people in Trinidad carrying names like Singh and Kempadoo.

The choice is yours!

Strong bump.

 

[Stumpyman]

Here's a serious race question: Are Pakistanis URMs? Legally speaking, Pakistanis and Indians are separate and technically Pakistanis don't have to check "Indian-Asian." And I believe there aren't way too many Pakistanis in medicine either (not sure though).

 

[kpcrew]

so hi i'm from north korea and from what i can tell, there aren't enough north koreans in medicine. technically it's different from south korea. am i urm?

 

[Stumpyman]

I must seem like an as*hole now. Lol, I'm not from Pakistan though, just curious.

 

[docdonny]

so hi i'm from north korea and from what i can tell, there aren't enough north koreans in medicine. technically it's different from south korea. am i urm?

I think it has to do with how many people of that race are in medicine compared to how many people of that race are in the US population. Both are small in your case so it's not URM.

 

[fides]

Im pretty sure i hold no credibility what so ever to giving any advice but the OP's idea seemed a bit, hmm how should i word it, "desperate". I'm not trying to be rude or neglect the amount of time and work you have placed in your aspiration to become a medical professional. Saying that, you dont have a 3.8GPA or higher, your MCAT in your own opinion was decent, and apparently the ethnic group you belong to happens to have the most competitive applicants with the generic 4.0/40 and amazing ECs. My simple question is this, if you understood that your GPA was bad and your MCAT wasnt as strong as you thought it is, why did you apply? or why are you hoping to apply? the answer is obviously dependent upon you since it is a question that pertains to you and the type of character you posess. Simply said, you are not an idiot (you show traces with this thread, but your not one) you believe that if you apply this cycle you would get in. You are holding on to some hope or faint/slim chance that your app would be well received or somebody would like you on paper, whatever. The point is that if you have enough belief in yourself to potentially make Med-school, than why are you faltering now? why doubt yourself and look for an avenue that you know is high-risk, and has no guaranteed-reward? If you get rejected, you get rejected. I'm pretty sure people have said this to you before, you are what you put in, if you want to become something than do it, dont look for excuses to cover up for your mistakes, learn from them, and come out stronger next time. You dont put the work in, you suffer simple. Its up to you still brother, but ask yourself if you cant even belief in your own merits why should someone whose precisely looking for that answer believe in you. Good luck on the interviews.

 

[tantacles]

I only read half of this thread (saw it disintegrated into the pre-allo race gibberish). I'm Caribbean too, Barbadian, and I've often wondered what Indo-Caribbeans put for such things. Last name is a poor predictor. You have black looking people in Trinidad carrying names like Singh and Kempadoo.

The choice is yours!

+2

I'm sticking with this one.

 

[FattySlug]

Im pretty sure i hold no credibility what so ever to giving any advice but the OP's idea seemed a bit, hmm how should i word it, "desperate". I'm not trying to be rude or neglect the amount of time and work you have placed in your aspiration to become a medical professional. Saying that, you dont have a 3.8GPA or higher, your MCAT in your own opinion was decent, and apparently the ethnic group you belong to happens to have the most competitive applicants with the generic 4.0/40 and amazing ECs. My simple question is this, if you understood that your GPA was bad and your MCAT wasnt as strong as you thought it is, why did you apply? or why are you hoping to apply? the answer is obviously dependent upon you since it is a question that pertains to you and the type of character you posess. Simply said, you are not an idiot (you show traces with this thread, but your not one) you believe that if you apply this cycle you would get in. You are holding on to some hope or faint/slim chance that your app would be well received or somebody would like you on paper, whatever. The point is that if you have enough belief in yourself to potentially make Med-school, than why are you faltering now? why doubt yourself and look for an avenue that you know is high-risk, and has no guaranteed-reward? If you get rejected, you get rejected. I'm pretty sure people have said this to you before, you are what you put in, if you want to become something than do it, dont look for excuses to cover up for your mistakes, learn from them, and come out stronger next time. You dont put the work in, you suffer simple. Its up to you still brother, but ask yourself if you cant even belief in your own merits why should someone whose precisely looking for that answer believe in you. Good luck on the interviews.

The thread is 3 month old.

 

[DocGodfather]

I wouldn't take the risk of rubbing adcoms the wrong way by them thinking you're trying to pull a fast one. You should be fine with your stats. Are you reapplying? How did your four interviews go?

 

[One Fly Guy]

first off your a disgrace
your the reason why affirmative action fails miserably, your not black, your not close to black, you cant bust a rap lyric during your interview to smooth any doubt the interviewer has that your lying.
instead of saying hmmm let me find a race that is the most unprivileged and exploit it to get into medical school, why dont you spend a tad bit more time working hard.
people like you are the biggest epic fail of society and i hope your plan back fires.

End.Rant.

FYI: Not all of us (Blacks) can rap.

 

[AllDaWEI]

It's all one big game. People play the system left and right. The OP said they have an African ancestor, so how is this lying? What about black pre-meds who grow up in wealthy communities who are in no way underprivileged? Should they also be excluded? Where do you draw the line?

No system is perfect, and the loopholes here are apparent. And in the end, medical school admissions is one big game. Even if you value your integrity, it is naive to believe that those two people sitting next to you woll value theres. Pre-meds are constantly looking for ways to play the system, sometimes through ways that are punishable (falsifying info), and also in ways like this that are one big gray area. People will.pull ahead of you no matter what, and ignoring the problem won't make go away.

 

[AllDaWEI]

"individuals who self-reported as Asian with my stats has about a 50% chance of getting into an MD school while individuals who self-reported as Black or African American had about a 90% chance of getting into an MD school."

**** that ****

Definitely. I think it's easy for people who are in medical school or have been admitted to stand by idealistic values. At the end of the day though, the admissions process is a game, but your life is not. If putting down "black" will get you in instead of waiting a year, then I think people would make the choice. You will never get this life back.

Life is not fair. The ADCOMs do not really care about us and will reject us without any emotion or second thought. Play their game and use everything you can, because you be idiot if you don't.

 

[Neurosis]

It's all one big game. People play the system left and right. The OP said they have an African ancestor, so how is this lying? What about black pre-meds who grow up in wealthy communities who are in no way underprivileged? Should they also be excluded? Where do you draw the line?

No system is perfect, and the loopholes here are apparent. And in the end, medical school admissions is one big game. Even if you value your integrity, it is naive to believe that those two people sitting next to you woll value theres. Pre-meds are constantly looking for ways to play the system, sometimes through ways that are punishable (falsifying info), and also in ways like this that are one big gray area. People will.pull ahead of you no matter what, and ignoring the problem won't make go away.

Two quick things about this:
1. Does the OP actually identify with being black? If not, then they are trying to scam the system. I don't really care If you have a black ancestor two or three generations back, if you personally, before worries of admission, believed yourself to being predominately Indian, then you're Indian.
2. I thought URM had nothing to do with if one was underpriviledged or not. I thought it had to do with how much a particular race is represented in medicine proportional to how much they make up the population. I could be wrong though.

 

[AllDaWEI]

Two quick things about this:
1. Does the OP actually identify with being black? If not, then they are trying to scam the system. I don't really care If you have a black ancestor two or three generations back, if you personally, before worries of admission, believed yourself to being predominately Indian, then you're Indian.
2. I thought URM had nothing to do with if one was underpriviledged or not. I thought it had to do with how much a particular race is represented in medicine proportional to how much they make up the population. I could be wrong though.

My bad, I think I was using the terms interchangeably. Your makes more sense.

Ever hear that line in movies that goes: I can be whatever you want to be. Whether or not the OP thinks they are black or not does not matter. Apparently the admissions process has powerful magical powers! It can bring things out that the pre-meds never thought existed, like their long lost URM roots and incredible sense of altruism.

Too bad that every college student is not pre-med, because it would make this a far more multi-cultural and charitable place. 🙄

 

[Neurosis]

Ever hear that line in movies that goes: I can be whatever you want to be. Whether or not the OP thinks they are black or not does not matter. Apparently the admissions process has powerful magical powers! It can bring things out that the pre-meds never thought existed, like their long lost URM roots and incredible sense of altruism.

. But seriously though, being actually Black and reading things like this was kind of annoying (inb4 someone posts umad jpeg). If the person actually went and did this, I would have to say I feel sorry for them.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Once you go black, you never go back.

 

[wololololololo]

Reminds me of this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/04/some-asian-students-dont-_n_1128037.html

Declining to identify one's race on an application would only benefit HAPAs since they would be more likely to have non-asian sounding last names. Committees aren't stupid, but are probably growing wary of people doing this. For med school admissions, declining to state your race wouldn't do much since a majority of schools require photographs and (possibly?) have your picture the MCAT.

 

[zwitterion34]

Not sure if this is relevant but if you are born in the U.S. can you check Native American? 😎

 

[cbrons]

Some days I wish I was blacker than this guy

*Thinks about medical school app*...Feels good to be black (no racist)

Looks like Luol Deng from the Chicago Bulls.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Id pay money to know what flatearth looked like.

 

[Stumpyman]

Id pay money to know what flatearth looked like.

I'd bet money that he looks like a normal Indian.

 

[Nymphicus]

Here's a serious race question: Are Pakistanis URMs? Legally speaking, Pakistanis and Indians are separate and technically Pakistanis don't have to check "Indian-Asian." And I believe there aren't way too many Pakistanis in medicine either (not sure though).

I must seem like an as*hole now. Lol, I'm not from Pakistan though, just curious.

I know this is kind of old, but there is an actual exact subcategory box designated "Pakistani". Kind of odd that they have that one so specific but no area at all for middle easterners.

"individuals who self-reported as Asian with my stats has about a 50% chance of getting into an MD school while individuals who self-reported as Black or African American had about a 90% chance of getting into an MD school."

**** that ****

One day you will realize that not everything is about numbers
😴😴😴


OP, picture this.
In an effort to be hospitable to you, the school invites you to the dinner hosted by all the minority medical societies the night before the interview, signs you up with an African American student host, and then your interview the next day is with the dean of diversity. Keep in mind that in order to get to this point, most schools will have required a photo with the secondary application.

Also, how many people each year do you think try and self-designate as URM to get an advantage? You don't think schools will have seen this before?

 

[Stumpyman]

I know this is kind of old, but there is an actual exact subcategory box designated "Pakistani". Kind of odd that they have that one so specific but no area at all for middle easterners.

Oh cool, thanks.

Yeah I actually don't find it WAY to odd that they have one for that specific country, and not for others, because as I mentioned, there was a legal bill passed a while back that ensures "Pakistanis" will be checked separately from "Indians."

 

[Hemorrage]

Oh cool, thanks.

Yeah I actually don't find it WAY to odd that they have one for that specific country, and not for others, because as I mentioned, there was a legal bill passed a while back that ensures "Pakistanis" will be checked separately from "Indians."

i dont get this. how is pakistan not a part of southern asia? it was part of india until like 50 years ago

 

[Neurosis]

OP, picture this.
In an effort to be hospitable to you, the school invites you to the dinner hosted by all the minority medical societies the night before the interview, signs you up with an African American student host, and then your interview the next day is with the dean of diversity. Keep in mind that in order to get to this point, most schools will have required a photo with the secondary application.

Also, how many people each year do you think try and self-designate as URM to get an advantage? You don't think schools will have seen this before?

👍

 

[IMSingular]

i dont get this. how is pakistan not a part of southern asia? it was part of india until like 50 years ago

The Congress can do whatever. Once they put the clock back by few hours so that they can pass the law before the dead line!

 

[LizzyM]

"individuals who self-reported as Asian with my stats has about a 50% chance of getting into an MD school while individuals who self-reported as Black or African American had about a 90% chance of getting into an MD school."

**** that ****

Ever wonder about that 10% in that category who don't get in?? Think that they might have been caught gaming the system?

 

[intheclouds]

I asked a similar question to the OP earlier and also was shut down by various SDN members. Fair question IMO we are all looking for ways to help our applications. I highly doubt the rest of you are saints so why don't we act like civilized adults and actually just answer the OP's original question?

p.s. There is no way medical schools can discriminate based on race. For example, they have a "quota" of how many aboriginals they have to let in (in Canada at least) but I would guess it would be breaking some sort of law by disregarding applications due to ethnicity.

 

[TunnuS]

As tempting as it is, I wouldn't do it. Honesty is the best policy, especially when it comes to something as serious as your potential future as doctor

 

[Neurosis]

No, their stats/ec were bad even for a black person.

Wow, that wasn't remotely offensive in the slightest. 🙄

 

[StoicJosher]

The thread is 3 month old.

👍👍

The time stamp is your friend.

 

[kautionwirez]

bump to show how ridiculous this thread is.

 

[Lots2offer]

Ha ha ha this is way too funny

Sent from my Vodafone 858 using SDN Mobile

 

[flatearth22]

I hope this turns into the next "Worst admissions staff in the country" thread.

 

[poshdoctor]

I think it's fine. Anyone of African Descent can call themselves "black" if they wish. Mixed-race people included.

 

[notbobtrustme]

The US follows a "one-drop rule." So **** it, might as well go for it.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Another URM thread.

 

[Morsetlis]

you must be new around here. the bathroom's to the left, and the cafeteria is downstairs and around the corner. please enjoy your stay.

And there's a raccoon named RogueUnicorn who talks to people.

 

[Skinceutical]

Don't mean to dig up a post from last year, but saw this and felt compelled to respond.

Stop encouraging people to blatantly abuse the system. hes not black, he doesnt live in the ghetto, his parents werent poor farmers in the south, hes of EAST FREAKING INDIAN decent.

The OP is of Indo-Trinidadian descent. How exactly do you think Indians got to Trinidad and Tobago?

After the British abolished slavery in the early 19th century, they realized that they still needed cheap/free labor for their sugar plantations in the Caribbean colonies. So they headed to colonial India, rounded up men (often using deception and/or brute force) and shipped them to Caribbean to work as indentured servants on the plantations. The Indian indentured servants worked under the same conditions, and had virtually the same rights (or lack thereof) as the slaves who had preceded them.

I really don't think we're talking about a very historically privileged background here.

 

[Vesh]

Although playing the race card is stupid and is exactly everything wrong with the application process now-a-days, I'm not even a little bit surprised these threads keeps coming up. Pre-meds will do anything to boost their applications. I am willing to guarantee there's more than a few people on here who volunteer just because they "have to" or work in a research lab despite "hating bench work". Everybody's playing the game, people like this just happen to be a bit more disingenuous than some of the other box-checkers out there.

 

[DaeHanMD]

you know...every once in a while it dawns on me: i will be colleagues with some of you racist f*cks.

medicine: no different from any other profession in that regard.