Can I match ophtho with a 229 Step 1?

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RookTookIt

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Sorry to ask what I'm sure a zillion other worried MS3s have asked.

I have wanted to be an ophthalmologist since my premed days but totally screwed the pooch on my Step 1. Hoping ophtho is still a possibility, but if not I'd rather know now and start preparing for something else.

Other things
- MS3 in a middle tier US allopathic school
- range of grades in first 2 years (P, HP, H pretty evenly split)
- MS3 grades thus far: HP in medicine, H in surgery, HP in neuro, H in ophtho elective
- one first author paper in a pretty high impact journal and two middle author papers (all in ophtho)
- a few poster presentations

Thanks for any advice/opinions/feedback.
 
Yes, you can still match. Your plan should be to keep doing as well as possible on your third year clerkships. Take 4 weeks to study for step 2 at the end of 3rd year and shoot for a 250 (average goes up 10 points from step 1). Apply through VSAS in march/april as soon as it opens and try to schedule 2-3 ophtho aways at lower tier programs (few in new york that I know of) . If you go to school at or near a good ophtho program try to get involved in a research project with a bigwig in ophtho. A good letter from a big name can carry you. If you score lower than 245 on step 2 consider taking a year off to do research. At this point your best bets are crushing step 2 or getting a program to really like you on an away. Good luck.
 
Disclaimer: I'm a current M4 applying into ophtho, so obviously I'm still going through this myself.

That said, imho you probably don't even need to hit the panic button. 229 is probably still within a standard deviation of the average 238 last year of matched applicants. Plus you've got great ophtho research behind you. Just make sure you get people to write really strong, really personal letters about you. I'd say it's better to have a "normal" academic ophthalmologist write a letter that demonstrates he/she really knows you well than it is to have a bigwig write a generic form letter.

Also, I'm not sure I'd set the place on fire and take a year off with a <245, either. Do the best you can, shoot for 240+, but then I don't think there's any harm in applying WITH a backup plan. Maybe get started doing research even while you're applying so you can talk about it. If you get in, great. If not, you already know what you'll be spending that extra year doing. I'm betting chances are you won't even need the backup.
 
Disclaimer: I'm a current M4 applying into ophtho, so obviously I'm still going through this myself.

That said, imho you probably don't even need to hit the panic button. 229 is probably still within a standard deviation of the average 238 last year of matched applicants. Plus you've got great ophtho research behind you. Just make sure you get people to write really strong, really personal letters about you. I'd say it's better to have a "normal" academic ophthalmologist write a letter that demonstrates he/she really knows you well than it is to have a bigwig write a generic form letter.

Also, I'm not sure I'd set the place on fire and take a year off with a <245, either. Do the best you can, shoot for 240+, but then I don't think there's any harm in applying WITH a backup plan. Maybe get started doing research even while you're applying so you can talk about it. If you get in, great. If not, you already know what you'll be spending that extra year doing. I'm betting chances are you won't even need the backup.

Im with elementals on this one. 229 is nothing impressive but it won't destroy you. The publications seem like they will be a hit on the trail. Aim for at least a 240 on step 2. If you don't hit that goal don't flip out, just make sure not to do worse than your step 1.

I would do aways at whatever places you want. I know people at top 10 programs with lower scores than you. If you want a big wig letter work at a big program with someone you've heard about or always wanted to work with. If the big wig letter isn't personal it's kind of a waste so you may be better off just getting letters from people that already know you well. It can go either way. Use your judgement.

Good luck
 
Agree with all of the above, particularly with studying hard and getting a great step 2 score (take a month off to do this). Round out your application and get good letters. Perhaps a top 10 program won't consider you (though not necessarily the case) but plenty of middle tier programs will. I would NOT consider taking a year off just because of that score. If you have a good reason to do so then go ahead but your step 1 score should not be it. Having a back up plan is always a good idea, regardless of how competitive an applicant you think you are.
 
If you are strong clinically and highly likable, you will do fine, plenty of people match with 220's every year - but yes, it is a challenge and you should start taking initiative as soon as you can. If you are not likable and can't shine during a rotation, and only you can be honest with yourself on that one, then it maybe tough. 2-3 away rotations are critical for someone like you; work your butt off during them without being the annoying gunner but just a normal likable person. Don't do your aways at schools that are unrealistic, do them at mid/lower tier programs that you know interview the applicants that rotate with them (or at least interview the ones they like, because there are schools that you can spend a month at and it may even appear that they like you and then you won't get an invite, so spend your time at places you carefully researched and that would actually overlook a board score for other strong qualities).

Be confident in yourself, don't draw attention to your board score or dwell on it, you maybe surprised that it goes overlooked if the programs like you otherwise.

That being said, outside of the schools that you get to know, I think getting interviews with that board score will be a challenge -- there are so many strong 250/240's and even 230's applicants nowadays, that those in the 220's rarely get programs to strongly consider their applications (but also not to say that you are 'screened' out). Board scores get you in the door for the interview, though it does not equal a spot if you can't interview well, but unfortunately, it rarely matters how amazing your app is if you don't have the score to cut the initial review process. So a couple things to keep in mind with this, you only need one school to love you to match so your focus and highest likelihood should be at schools where you rotated - give it your all there, find out who is involved in the interviewing and ranking process and really try to spend your time with them, get to know the residents who will push for you if they love you and that does matter. Lots of times, only a couple faculty at a place are the ones involved in the ranking process, so if you spend your time with the faculty who are not involved - while it can't hurt, it is not the most effective use of your time.

Don't freak out if you don't have the interview numbers as long as the ones that you do have are really solid leads. Try to get to know as many people as you can in the ophtho community, especially PD/Chairmen/people who can forward your application to those who actually make decisions. If your application gets looked at closely you will stand a solid chance of an interview invite, its just a matter of them making it down to the 220's in their pile to begin with and that is not happening frequently nowadays. Go to conferences, ask people to connect you - find a way to get some face time with these people and let them know straight up that you are interested and serious. If you know people who are well connected, ask them to call programs where you want to interview once your application is out, because you may need that extra push and unfortunately those invites rarely trickle in magically.

I actually would not harp on Step 2 -- if you can do a 240/245 + on it, go for it, it can only help, if you are risking lower than a 240 on it that I would actually recommend avoiding Step 2. If you are going for Step 2, make sure you have your score before August/when you submit your app - otherwise it will very likely get overlooked anyway, schools get inundated with 'updates' and rarely take the time to add them to your application. If you can squeeze in another away instead of Step 2 -- that maybe time better spent. Honestly, if they love you rotating, Step 2 won't make or break you, and ophtho tends to put little focus on Step 2 to begin with (your step 1 is not that bad, it's just not super competitive).

Spend time on your app, have people in the Ophtho world look it over (their insight will be more unique than just having friends and family review it for you), write a solid personal statement. Do research with the decision makers, its a great way to know people in the ophtho community and to show them you understand what it means to work hard and be a reliable individual. Talk to those who matched and even did not match in the last 1-2 years, talk to as many as you can and pick their brains, find out what they did wrong and what they did right, and find out what they know about programs you are interested in (not the kind of things you can find on their website, i mean tips about how to get in).

For various reasons, often times the unmatched are the ones with a perfectly fine board score and enough interviews to match in theory, but they dropped the ball somewhere else, and it is the underdogs who have a realistic awareness of where they stand that find ways to impress programs. You can do it and you should not settle for anything short of what you see yourself doing with your life - you worked too hard in medical school to give up now, but it won't come effortlessly without you being very proactive about it.
 
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Hi Rooktookit,

I am so happy people are giving you excellent advice. I completely agree with Ocularis and the other comments on this page. Remember that a year off is looked at better when you do it between 3rd and 4th year rather than after 4th year (and meaning you didn't match). This I think it because it looks like you did it out of your own interest rather than doing a year of research because you didn't match.

Ocularis hits all great points, and I recommend as a potential candidate, to listen frankly to his comments. Make sure that you are 100% committed to Ophtho because now you need to put all of your eggs in one basket (in terms of a career) and show the determination that people want to see in their future residents.

Take care man and If you need help with year off programs and the such please PM I can hopefully lend some advice.
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful advice. This is such a great community.

It seems that most people agree that away rotations are very important for an applicant like me. And then there are some split opinions on taking Step 2. Here's where I'm confused: how do people have time for all this? My 4th year starts on July 6th and it looks like most people are submitting applications in early August. In that amount of time I don't even know if I would have time to study for Step 2 and get the score back. Do people often do away rotations after applications have been submitted? I'm just not quite understanding the timeline.

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful advice. This is such a great community.

It seems that most people agree that away rotations are very important for an applicant like me. And then there are some split opinions on taking Step 2. Here's where I'm confused: how do people have time for all this? My 4th year starts on July 6th and it looks like most people are submitting applications in early August. In that amount of time I don't even know if I would have time to study for Step 2 and get the score back. Do people often do away rotations after applications have been submitted? I'm just not quite understanding the timeline.

Thanks again.

My 3rd finished in June and my 4th year could have started as early as July with 2 weeks vacation built in between the two. But if I took an extra 2 weeks off I could have 4 weeks off total. That is exactly what many people did and used that time to study 1 month for step 2. If you aced your shelf exams there is a good chance you do not need to study 1 month for step 2 and could still get >240. Only you know how you will do based on the q bank, nbme practice test or how you did on shelf exams....

You could do aways in August and September. Some people do an away in the month of October but it gets hard. That means that yes, you would be doing an away after your applications are submitted but before interview season.
 
I agree with all the posts above. I don't have any particular insight that would help your cause, but just for the benefit of other applicants out there who are worried that their step 1 score would preclude them from matching into ophthalmology, I have a few things to share.

1. There are many programs that screen based on step 1 score alone. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality. Having said that, I think there are just as many programs that do not screen applicants based on step 1 score alone.

2. For the latter group of programs, they look at the entire application. Like the posters above have already mentioned, these include step 2 score, class rank, AOA status, caliber of medical school, caliber of ophthalmology department associated with the medical school, research/publications, strength of rec letters, etc.

3. Be optimistic but at the same time be realistic. The program director at your home institution would be able to give you the best realistic advice as to your chances of matching into ophthalmology. If your step 1 score is low, but you stand out in other areas of your application, then go for it by all means. However, if your step 1/2 scores are low, have mediocre grades, and come from a lesser-known medical school without a strong ophthalmology department, then I would argue that odds are definitely against you and would look for another field to go into. Alternatively, if you can't imagine doing anything else but ophthalmology, I would take multiple years off to build a strong CV in vision research.

If you could get some prestigious research fellowships like Howard Hughes, then doing just 1 year of research could be sufficient. However generally speaking, I would argue that taking just one year off to do research is pretty risky. Research itself is unpredictable, and many people spend a year or more without getting publishable result. If you end up taking a year off to do research, but have no publishable result at the end and no recognizable fellowships to put on CV, then you could potentially look worse off than if you hadn't taken a year off to do research.
 
You still have a shot some middle tier programs and a good shot at most low tier programs.

The reality is that most top programs will set step 1 cutoffs (usually >235) due to the sheer number of applications that are received. That being said, if you rotate at a top program and stand out, or have a well-known mentor vouch for you, they may hand pick your application for an interview -- but this is the exception rather than the rule.

Wish you the best, but remember to be realistic with yourself in this process or it will only lead to disappointment.
 
Can I PM one of you residents? I have a question but don't want to take over another person's thread (and it's not worth a new thread).
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful advice. This is such a great community.

It seems that most people agree that away rotations are very important for an applicant like me. And then there are some split opinions on taking Step 2. Here's where I'm confused: how do people have time for all this? My 4th year starts on July 6th and it looks like most people are submitting applications in early August. In that amount of time I don't even know if I would have time to study for Step 2 and get the score back. Do people often do away rotations after applications have been submitted? I'm just not quite understanding the timeline.

Thanks again.

You submit around september 1st. There is a good chance you may not have your results by then so you would just send them out when you receive them. This can be done after you submit your initial application. It also gives you the opportunity to conceal themif things go poorly. You schedule aways for august, september, october. So your timeline would be step 2 studying in july, then aways in august - october. I would strongly advise you to take step 2 early and get your 240. It will be the question that comes up on every one of your interviews. It will look poorly if you dont have your results by interviews as it is the one glaring weakness of your app. Good luck.
 
You "can" match with a 229, but it's obviously very risky (which you probably knew, and which probably motivated your post).

I suppose I have a different perspective from the others who have already responded. If ophthalmology is something you've wanted to do your whole life, and you want to spend the rest of your life doing it, then I don't think you personally would view taking an extra year to do research in it as a huge sacrifice. Although getting publications out of basic science might be risky in a single year, I would think it's pretty realistic to take on several clinical projects during a year, and be confident of generating at least one clinical publication or manuscript. Any reasonably good ophtho program should have faculty who are involved in clinical research, so I don't think you'd have to look too hard for a mentor.

Another thing - the NIH, Howard Hughes, Doris Duke, etc. all have very prestigious fellowships that would help you tremendously. I'd personally apply for them, and as a backup, contact other faculty about doing a research year (per above).

Ophtho is competitive (not Derm competitive, but much more so than IM etc.). I don't know why you'd want to roll the dice just to "save" a year of your life. Besides - any research and/or publications that you get out of your research year will only help you later on as you apply for ophtho fellowships after residency. The year will not be wasted.

Finally - ophtho is not the only thing that makes life worth living. Plenty of ophthalmologists are pissed about the crappy, downtrending reimbursement. The residency itself is not cush. There are plenty of reasons to keep your eyes wide open about other possible fields that also have cool things in them.
 
Thanks again, I appreciate all the responses.

I would gladly take a year to do research if I thought it would put me in a better position to match, but I'm honestly not sure it would. I have a very clear hurdle with my application which is my Step 1 score, but I actually think that research is the strongest part of my application. I have extensive research prior to med school and very seriously considered a MD/PhD at my home institution but decided in my first year to no longer pursue that. Currently I am on two active research projects (one in basic science and one clinical study). As for publications, I have a high impact first author paper in basic research and two middle author papers (one in basic research and one in clinical). It is very likely that I will have another first author paper (clinical) published before applications go out. And all of these research experiences have been in ophthalmology.

I almost feel like I've done too much research (because that time clearly would've been better spent studying).

Anyway, I've definitely gotten myself into a tough situation, but I don't really think research is the way out of it. At this point I feel like all I can really do is to do my best on Step 2 and let it fly. And I'll be sure to go in with a backup plan. I've been fortunate enough to enjoy almost everything I've done thus far in third year, but still nothing quite compares to ophtho for me. We'll see!
 
I agree, your research is great. In a weird way, it's probably more impressive to have good research without time off - that's more realistic - residents knock out research at night/weekends. I think you'll match OP.
 
Thanks again, I appreciate all the responses.

I would gladly take a year to do research if I thought it would put me in a better position to match, but I'm honestly not sure it would. I have a very clear hurdle with my application which is my Step 1 score, but I actually think that research is the strongest part of my application. I have extensive research prior to med school and very seriously considered a MD/PhD at my home institution but decided in my first year to no longer pursue that. Currently I am on two active research projects (one in basic science and one clinical study). As for publications, I have a high impact first author paper in basic research and two middle author papers (one in basic research and one in clinical). It is very likely that I will have another first author paper (clinical) published before applications go out. And all of these research experiences have been in ophthalmology.

I almost feel like I've done too much research (because that time clearly would've been better spent studying).

Anyway, I've definitely gotten myself into a tough situation, but I don't really think research is the way out of it. At this point I feel like all I can really do is to do my best on Step 2 and let it fly. And I'll be sure to go in with a backup plan. I've been fortunate enough to enjoy almost everything I've done thus far in third year, but still nothing quite compares to ophtho for me. We'll see!

Don't take a year off. I agree. Just try your best and try not to pay too much attention to what other people say. Now I'm gonna sound like an ass, but...Sometimes I think most of those people who tell you it cannot be done are the types who would have switched to peds/path/psych/IM when they take step 1 and get below a 235. I'm sure you've met those people in your class. And you will continue to meet them except they got >235 so they are going into whatever specialty they originally wanted. Many of us go through medical school with the attitude that we work hard, we then do well, then we get what we "deserve". And we should make do with what we have and "stream ourselves". That's not how life works. And that's not how this works. Not everything has to be perfect. You weren't "streamed out" of ophtho with a 229. You're applying with a respectable score, and you have other merits that will impress people. I can imagine that along with those papers come decent letters and people vouching for you. You're likely gonna do great. Just don't let people get you down otherwise you will put yourself at a disadvantage.
 
There's some misinformation out there. Last year's average Step 1 was a 242, not a 238. It will likely be higher this year, and even higher the next. The average score for unmatched applicants was high 220s. It is possible to match, but dicey, with your Step 1.
 
There's some misinformation out there. Last year's average Step 1 was a 242, not a 238. It will likely be higher this year, and even higher the next. The average score for unmatched applicants was high 220s. It is possible to match, but dicey, with your Step 1.

I know what last years step 1 average was... I'm just saying if he wants to do ophtho he should do it... He has a shot at matching.

There are people with lower scores that match every year. He's not walking in with no other merits to his application. Also, a year off is not the answer to everything. If you read previous posts by linevasel, he details how risky it can be. And I don't believe a year off is a good idea for the OP. If he were to take a year off I only imagine him gaining if he knows he can secure a spot with someone at the top 5-10 who will vouch for him (call/email) and send him to every meeting and feed him things to write.

If someone wants to match with a 229 they should try. If someone is trying to match with a 219 I say have a backup plan. A lot of programs I talked to when I applied told me they have an unofficial 220 cutoff. Say it rose to 225 since I applied. Then OPs app has a great chance of not getting thrown away at first glance. That's worth noting.

One other thing. OP should apply to as many programs as he can afford.
 
Just try your best and try not to pay too much attention to what other people say. Now I'm gonna sound like an ass, but...Sometimes I think most of those people who tell you it cannot be done are the types who would have switched to peds/path/psych/IM when they take step 1 and get below a 235. I'm sure you've met those people in your class. And you will continue to meet them except they got >235 so they are going into whatever specialty they originally wanted. Many of us go through medical school with the attitude that we work hard, we then do well, then we get what we "deserve". And we should make do with what we have and "stream ourselves". That's not how life works. And that's not how this works. Not everything has to be perfect. You weren't "streamed out" of ophtho with a 229. You're applying with a respectable score, and you have other merits that will impress people. I can imagine that along with those papers come decent letters and people vouching for you. You're likely gonna do great. Just don't let people get you down otherwise you will put yourself at a disadvantage.

So much agreement with this!

Also, really. Keep in mind the "SDN effect." Let's be honest, SDN is full of insane gunners. Sometimes you look around and feel like the whole world has 250s+, AOA, PhDs, and stellar letters from bigwigs. When I went on my interviews, though, I'd say everyone I met had a "weakness" or two on their app if you go by those SDN standards. Myself included! Some people had a "subpar" step 1. Some people didn't have AOA. Most people had a Dean's letter that damned with faint praise. Most people didn't have research years or additional degrees. Many people didn't even have significant research.

What most people did seem to have, I think, is the support of their home departments/letter writers, a broad-ranging list of schools-applied-to, a pretty good attitude about everything. I think those things mattered more than anything in getting us the interviews we got. I guess my point is: people out there are mostly normal people with normal applications. Smart, high-achieving people -- but not superstars without a single flaw. In fact, on a good number of my interviews, I was asked to specifically talk about failures/shortcomings -- and I was told on multiple occasions that it wasn't so much to expose weaknesses as to make sure the people they were getting WEREN'T those that had never failed before, or people who felt they were perfect and had to stay that way, as those were the types that were likely to fall apart immediately should anything go wrong.

Last thing though: note that most people replying on this thread are med students (or pre-med??) -- myself included. So at the end of the day, if I were you, I'd probably put more weight on the advice of people who've actually successfully gone through the match process 😛
 
Since making this post over 2 years ago, I have gotten plenty of PMs by people (some who are in a similarly difficult position and some who are just curious) wanting to know how everything panned out. I’ve responded to everyone who’s asked, but now that there is a definitive answer, here’s the more public update:

I applied last year and failed to match. I took a research year while I reapplied and successfully matched this year.

I’m happy to provide specifics to anyone who is interested, but I don’t think they really matter because everyone’s experience varies so much. I just want to make a couple of points: 1) if you really want to match into ophthalmology persistence and insight into your strengths and weaknesses are key, and 2) my story is not nearly as unique as SDN would make you believe.

There are many paths to get to the same endpoint and I think that almost any passionate applicant can find the path that leads to their own match.

Congratulations to everyone who matched today. And I’m sorry to those of you who didn’t. I know firsthand how devastating that is. Take some time (but not too much) to feel upset/angry/disappointed and then get back on the horse. I can honestly say that the year I’ve had after not matching has been amazing. I’ve had the opportunity to accomplish things that I would never have time to do in residency and I feel confident that I have put myself in the best position for a successful career.
 
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