Can I say NO to contacting my current employer?

[vanfanal]

I’m a year out of training working at a community hospital. A position has opened up at the VA, actually at my old training programme. Seems like a good fit since they desperately need someone to take over suboxone and methadone prescribing as their current guy is retiring, and I’m fellowship trained in addictions and want to do addictions almost full time.

So as I’m going through the credentialing process, the ROI says to allow them to contact anyone, including current employer. I specified that they cannot contact my current employer. My current job doesn’t know I’m looking elsewhere and in case the VA job falls through, I would just stay, and I don’t want to be left in a precarious position if my current job were to know I was planning on leaving. But VA HR is giving me pushback. I don’t even have a letter of intent or offer on the table yet either.

They’re free to contact licensing boards and professional references, just not current employer.

I haven’t addressed this with the chief of psych yet who knows me well from training and I’m confident has a good impression of me; but not sure if even she can do anything in the face of VA bureaucracy.
Since I’m relatively fresh from training, I was wondering what’s the norm out there? The internet says it’s okay to say no, but I was wondering how this applies to physician credentialing. I imagine lots of docs explore opportunities and hop jobs under the noses of their current jobs. Is it normal to say no to contacting current employer during the credentialing process in such cases?

As always, this forum’s input is much appreciated.

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[painballer27]

Why do you want to work for the VA?

 

[randomdoc1]

Can you have them contact a peer at current employment instead? I’d explain the situation to the VA to see if there’s someway you can get them the info they are looking for without putting current employment at risk. If they won’t budge, they won’t budge. Many places are in desperate need of a psychiatrist so chances are, both places want you anyways and your current employer may even get incentivized to try to retain you. Context of these relationships is key though. Now if I can’t get any reference of a prospective employee at their current place of employment, I’d find that “sus”. lol

 

[Jules A]

I don’t understand why VA requires full onboarding tasks including the physical to be completed prior to making an actual offer. Potential for a waste of time if the salary isn’t acceptable. And aren’t all offers contingent on meeting certain criteria like physical, drug screen, appropriate references anyway?

 

[vanfanal]

Why do you want to work for the VA?

lol. It’s a full time addictions job, including methadone. I think it could be cush….once the on boarding hassles are done with.

 

[painballer27]

lol. It’s a full time addictions job, including methadone. I think it could be cush….once the on boarding hassles are done with.

So addictions is cush? Good to know. How much does it pay?

If there is a need for addictions in your area why don't you start a private practice and do addictions. You can probably stack more paper that way... If you don't want to work hard like at all then VA is prob a better option though

 

[vanfanal]

Can you have them contact a peer at current employment instead? I’d explain the situation to the VA to see if there’s someway you can get them the info they are looking for without putting current employment at risk. If they won’t budge, they won’t budge. Many places are in desperate need of a psychiatrist so chances are, both places want you anyways and your current employer may even get incentivized to try to retain you. Context of these relationships is key though. Now if I can’t get any reference of a prospective employee at their current place of employment, I’d find that “sus”. lol

Yes, I was thinking about this. That I can do. They can contact my employer eventually, but when I have an offer letter with a negotiated salary.

 

[vanfanal]

But in general, how does it work out there? Do you regularly give employer details if you’re shopping around? or is it more typical to be further along in the process, ie your 90% sure you’re taking the job and you’ve finished any negotiations before they start calling?

 

[Jules A]

But in general, how does it work out there? Do you regularly give employer details if you’re shopping around?

No

 

[vanfanal]

So addictions is cush? Good to know. How much does it pay?

If there is a need for addictions in your area why don't you start a private practice and do addictions. You can probably stack more paper that way... If you don't want to work hard like at all then VA is prob a better option though

I'm going to get some loan forgiveness out of it.
I don't have a salary yet (another reason I don't want them to call my current job in case I don't like the offer), but I do expect a premium for the addictions skills above what the general psychiatrists are making.

 

[whopper]

Of course you can tell them. Then it's up to that other organization on what to do. There's no point in asking us cause it's up to them.

Person X: If I go to a pizza place and they don't offer anchovies can I ask them?
Person Y: Of course you can. Then it's up to that other organization on what to do. There's no point in asking us cause it's up to them.

You can ask the other organization whatever you want. "Do I get a Tesla with my job?" It's up to you.

 

[comp1]

You can do what you want, but it's important to understand how the VA, in specific, works. The VA has processes. It's not like the private practice down the street that can change their processes because they really, really want you and you asked nicely. The processes usually aren't flexible or negotiable. For example, you can't negotiate your salary, but you can sometimes negotiate other things about the job. Similarly, the recruitment and onboarding process is mostly non-negotiable. It's set by the VA Central Office and it's not tied to your position or even your local VA. HR is going to need to talk to your most recent employing supervisor. This is to make sure there are not any urgent or emergent issues with your clinical practice. Depending on the specific peer at your current employer, they MIGHT be able to fill that role, but it's quite frankly unlikely. You should talk to your onboarder. The VA definitely understands how people don't like to share with their current employers that they are looking elsewhere. Generally a tentative offer can be made without that, but the formal offer will almost certainly require talking to your current employing supervisor. The difference between a tentative offer and a formal offer is just related to you passing all of the background and reference checks. It is not something that the VA pulls out of assuming all of those check out. The VA has a primary goal of making sure that they are hiring safe clinicians and a lot of formal processes in place to confirm that. It's definitely worth it to go through these hoops.

 

[whopper]

Is it normal to say no to contacting current employer during the credentialing process in such cases?

Adding to the above it's not the "norm" to omit prior work. Although there's no controlled studies as far as I'm aware, and there damned well could be because there's an entire field of study devoted to this type thing (Industrial Psychology).

I was a bit sarcastic with my last post cause it's like any application. You can omit anything you want. You can ask anything you want. Just that the gatekeeper might find some questions odd, and if you omit anything and they find out later they could be suspicious. Also some applications specifically say you cannot omit any prior work. E.g. "Please include all jobs you held in the last 5 years without any omissions."

Anything added to this is already well understood and common sense. E.g. if you lie on your application this can be held against you. If you have gaps in your work the gatekeeper could ask why there are gaps. If you want help in that area then you need help in simply knowing how to apply for a job.

 

[vanfanal]

You can do what you want, but it's important to understand how the VA, in specific, works. The VA has processes. It's not like the private practice down the street that can change their processes because they really, really want you and you asked nicely. The processes usually aren't flexible or negotiable. For example, you can't negotiate your salary, but you can sometimes negotiate other things about the job. Similarly, the recruitment and onboarding process is mostly non-negotiable. It's set by the VA Central Office and it's not tied to your position or even your local VA. HR is going to need to talk to your most recent employing supervisor. This is to make sure there are not any urgent or emergent issues with your clinical practice. Depending on the specific peer at your current employer, they MIGHT be able to fill that role, but it's quite frankly unlikely. You should talk to your onboarder. The VA definitely understands how people don't like to share with their current employers that they are looking elsewhere. Generally a tentative offer can be made without that, but the formal offer will almost certainly require talking to your current employing supervisor. The difference between a tentative offer and a formal offer is just related to you passing all of the background and reference checks. It is not something that the VA pulls out of assuming all of those check out. The VA has a primary goal of making sure that they are hiring safe clinicians and a lot of formal processes in place to confirm that. It's definitely worth it to go through these hoops.

Thanks so much.
I think this is fair and reasonable.
Of course it fine them to verify with my current job. All I’m looking for is a contingent offer before I tell my current job on my own terms rather than them finding out from elsewhere.

 

[comp1]

They should be able to make a tentative offer before contacting your current supervisor. Make that clear to your onboarder. It's a reasonable request.