Okay, so my Dad is gay and married a GI Pathologist. This GI pathologist helped me get a job at his lab and I would sometimes sit in his office and go over cases with him. I really don't consider him to be my "step-father" so I'm thinking it's okay to ask him to write me a LOR for med school. Thoughts?
Can I use this person for a LOR?
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deleted382095
You could use him as a reference for states that does not recognize gay marriage.
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I would agree with the previous poster, technically. Realistically, I would not use him. If you had phrased the question, "My parent got married and I shadowed their new partner, can I use them for a LOR?" I think the answer would be a clear "no". The opportunity for bias in the LOR is still there.
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It's not about the legal status (where did that come from?), it's about the relationship. Letters from family aren't useful because people know they aren't really objective. Even if you don't consider him your step-father, you have a familial connection which calls into question his objectivity.
I'm sure you can find better writers.
I'm sure you can find better writers.
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That's where the legal status comes in. If they are in a state where gay marriage is not recognized, then technically the guy is just his dad's friend. Lots of pre-meds shadow family friends. If they are legally married, then legally the guy is the OP's step-dad whether the OP identifies with that or not. In that case, it is a familial relationship and should not be used.
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He's not the guy's friend. He's his boyfriend. It's clearly a familial and intimate relationship. Trying to argue that they're just friends is incredibly ridiculous. The law doesn't enter the equation at all.
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Maybe I missed something, but I didn't get a sense of you working closely with this person. Rather, it sounds more like shadowing.
If this is true, it really isn't a good choice for a LOR because this person did not have you as a student in either a formal teaching or research capacity. When you add in that he isn't someone at "arms length" - it devalues the letter even more.
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If this is true, it really isn't a good choice for a LOR because this person did not have you as a student in either a formal teaching or research capacity. When you add in that he isn't someone at "arms length" - it devalues the letter even more.
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The OP doesn't have to disclose the nature of the relationship if it is not legally binding (e.g not legally married). Have you ever noticed that when you fill out your relationship status you either get to chose married or single? There is no "not married, but in a relationship" option. If you aren't married to your girlfriend or your boyfriend, you are single. In the same way, if they are in a state where gay marriage is not legal, they can be called "friends," but if they are in a gay marriage state, then they are married.
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deleted382095
Impressive! If you think he could write you a good recommendation, then I think you should go for it since you two aren't technically related in most of the states.
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I agree with this, though I'm not sure I would use it for an LOR. Definitely use it for shadowing/clinical hours, but I assume ADCOMs look much more closely at LORs and are more prone to investigate them if they have any questions or concerns.
Consider it if the marriage is not recognized by your state, but definitely don't do it if it is.
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What the hell does my relationship status on the AMCAS application have to do with anything? What are you talking about? I should ask my girlfriend for a letter of recommendation?
This is simply the worst advice I've ever seen. If for the small reason someone asks you "So what your relationship with DR. X?"
What are you going to answer? "Oh, he's married to my father. But it's not legal in the state, so we're cool?" Or you can lie by omission. At that point, you might as well just out right lie about crap. It's not like you'll get caught, right?
Oh yeah, don't forget to track which states have legalized marriage or not. Figure out which ones have legalized marriage, ones that haven't outlawed marriage, and which ones that have no laws. Make sure to check court systems to see if any of them are going to be challenged, and check for upcoming bills and referendums. Calculate the probability of them failing or succeeding during the application system. I hope you have a law degree. Oh, wait, the logistics is completely idiotic, just as much as the reasoning.
At this point, if I was the student interviewer, I'd politely thank him for the time and leave. Or maybe start by asking him easy ethics questions and watch him fail, since he already proves he's lacking either common sense or basic ethics.
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I'm pretty sure legal status doesn't really matter here. You're supposed to get letters from people who can professionally evaluate you and, with a few exceptions from schools who request peer letters, it almost always states on the descriptions of who to get LORs from that recommendations from friends and family aren't acceptable. That's because they might not be objective.
Could you lie and leave out that he's functionally a family member, yeah I suppose. Of course if he brings it up, or in the section of the letter form where it asks how he knows you he says that he's married to your dad and you work with him you'll get caught.
I'm sure the situation gets a bit grey when it involves family friends. Say your dad's a doctor and he sets you up with an interview to work in a colleague/friends lab. Or you volunteer for a group, become vice president of the group and become friends with your supervisor.
Could you have someone else you work under write the letter? It's not like you have to pretend you didn't get the experience. You can bring that up elsewhere in your app and interviews, how you talked about cases, etc.
Could you lie and leave out that he's functionally a family member, yeah I suppose. Of course if he brings it up, or in the section of the letter form where it asks how he knows you he says that he's married to your dad and you work with him you'll get caught.
I'm sure the situation gets a bit grey when it involves family friends. Say your dad's a doctor and he sets you up with an interview to work in a colleague/friends lab. Or you volunteer for a group, become vice president of the group and become friends with your supervisor.
Could you have someone else you work under write the letter? It's not like you have to pretend you didn't get the experience. You can bring that up elsewhere in your app and interviews, how you talked about cases, etc.
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If you have already made up your mind, we can stop this discussion?
If instead you are asking a question, it should be "What is required of a LOR for medical school?" or simply put "What do adcoms look for in a LOR"?
Here are a couple of things that come to mind:
Objectivity
If there is a conflict of interest, you shouldn't even ask. And if you DO ask - he should decline (especially him - since he is at a medical school he should be acutely aware of how LOR writing works).
You see, objectivity is a cardinal requirement of LORs. This is why there is a process that ensures confidentiality of the letter. Do you think sometimes letters are submitted that are negative and don't recommend that the applicant get in? You betcha. Adcoms want objective assessments.
In your case, he's in a relationship to your dad. Do you think that he can be objective? Hint: that's pretty much a "NO". This has nothing to do with his sexuality or the legality of his marriage or whether you consider him your stepfather or even consider him a toaster. He cannot be objective. End of story.
Authority
This isn't "look at my title and what I do" kind of authority. I mean "the capacity to evaluate you". This is a person in a specific relationship to you: a boss/PI/professor (please note that a "professor" isn't automatically a person who can write you a letter - they actually have to teach you! This point seems lost on some people).
Also, titles do not impress adcoms by themselves. What I mean is - a "good letter" doesn't require a great title. And an impressive title doesn't make up for a crappy LOR. Hell - most everyone on the adcom will be a professor at the school - how impress will they be?
Now - there are many other aspects to great LORs. But for now, you get my point. Let's for a second say you and him both commit an acts of omission, and don't have him explain his relationship to you. He STILL can't specifically discuss your performance in a class setting or a research lab setting. Do you see what I am saying? Even then - this LOR really isn't going to help. At all.
This. Like I was trying to state before (albeit on my phone so I couldn't be so verbose) - this person is NOT your professor NOR your PI / Boss. This entire discussion is moot. You shadowed him. This will not replace the required letters for almost any school. IF you want a favor from him, have him pull some weight at his school and get you an interview and lay it to rest. Finally having him write a letter reflects poorly on your decision-making faculties.
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If the marriage is not recognized by the state, the OP can say the Dr is a friend of his father without lying. That's what I'm saying. Is your girlfriend a doctor? I didn't think so.
Also, it's very unlikely that someone will ask what your relationship is with a doctor you shadowed.
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But if the known answer sucks or doesnt serve your purpose you can throw out ethics if the internet agrees right?
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deleted307836
I don't understand how marital status plays into this. I've always assumed, and LizzyM has affirmed this, that family members and family friends should be avoided for LOR's. I'm guessing friends of family are still used often when it comes to letters from shadowing and the like however, whether that is ethical or not.
