can someone clarify irregularly irregular vs regularly irregular ekg's?

[bulldog]

i'm confused as heck. iregularly irregular rhtym = afib. when do u get regularly irregular? what's so regular about the irregularity? seems like aflutter is regulary irregular.

is it if no p before every qrs, it's irregular? but if u have some regularity to the qrs, then it's regularly irregular? (like aflutter)?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Atrial Flutter is extremely regular, I've heard it described as "obsessively regular."

For regularly irregular, I'd propose Second Degree AV Block as a great example, especially type 2 (Wenkebach). It is irregular due to the dropped beats and the lengthening PR intervals, but several beats taken together show a regular pattern.

Hope that helps.

 

[docB]

Irregularly irregular is usually used to describe Afib. It's distinct from regularly irregular rhythms like the second degrees.

I suppose it could be used to describe ectopy that isn't bigeminy, trigeminy, etc.

So who cares and why do we torture ourselves with this stuff? The best explaination is that these terms (irregularly irregular and regularly irregular) are physical exam findings as opposed to EKG findings. Use these terms when you're presenting your exam, not the EKG.

 

[monsoon338]

Is there such a thing as irregularly regular? Or is that the same as regularly irregular?

Irregularly regular = regularly irregular?

If not, what does the first word refer to and what does the second word refer to when talking about regularly regular, irregularly irregular, etc?

 

[Rendar5]

you're overthinking things. Just remember irregularly irregular means no pattern and regularly irregular means that it's not completely steady but there's a pattern to the unsteadiness. These are now set phrases in medicalese and digging into any etymology at this point will confuse you, not enlighten you.

 

[hamstergang]

Is there such a thing as irregularly regular? Or is that the same as regularly irregular?

I'd say no. A regular rhythm means that the atrial and ventricular contractions are occurring at roughly even intervals consistently.

An irregular rhythm means we have something else. If that disturbance in the regular rhythm occurs in an easily identifiable pattern (eg losing every 4th ventricular contraction) then the irregularity occurs regularly, so it is regularly irregular. If the disturbance in the regular rhythm does not occur in an easily identifiable pattern, then the irregularity occurs with irregularity, so it is irregularly irregular.

Irregularly regular makes no sense. If the rhythm is regular, then what part of it is occurring irregularly?

 

[Buzz Me]

Consistently recurring PVCs? PACs?
Bigeminy? Trigeminy?
One of the AV blocks (as previously stated)?