Can Someone define Top/Mid/Low Tier schools?

[Espadaleader]

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@baconshrimps did. Yeah, using myself may be a bad example lol but I have the utmost respect for my peers on this forum. Never would something as meaningless as some interviews or acceptances make me think more of myself. Also, I don't hide my success of the forum because this is what the forum is about. I keep these things private but since I am on this forum I am going to keep things respectful but not hold my tongue. Alright, I'm off this thread. Thanks AgentB!

 

[baconshrimps]

How is it tactful? So since @Espadaleader had a successful cycle, he shouldn't use himself as an example because other applicants who weren't as successful would be offended? Seriously? And your implication that URMs primarily have this type of success is inaccurate and offensive. Let's avoid heading at that direction.

Focus on what @Espadaleader is arguing rather than attacking him for "boasting" his success.

Not inaccurate, be offended if you wish. The point was not to stimulate yet ANOTHER URM debate, but to point out where their accomplishments are coming from, and why it's not a reason to brag. If they don't feel like proving themselves, that is fine - this is the interbuttz after all. However, if you don't want to be accountable for the words of your mouth, don't talk. Like I said, I gave a vastly more innocuous way for him to have made his point. Espadaloser pisses people off on the forum. I mean, I'm probably no exception, but I felt like calling him out on it, so I did.

 

[487806]

Not inaccurate, be offended if you wish. The point was not to stimulate yet ANOTHER URM debate, but to point out where their accomplishments are coming from, and why it's not a reason to brag. If they don't feel like proving themselves, that is fine - this is the interbuttz after all. However, if you don't want to be accountable for the words of your mouth, don't talk. Like I said, I gave a vastly more innocuous way for him to have made his point. Espadaloser pisses people off on the forum. I mean, I'm probably no exception, but I felt like calling him out on it, so I did.

Ok come on now. Sure what Espadaleader said was controversial, but is it really necessary for name-calling? Before this thread continues to derail in a nasty direction, let's shift it back to the original topic on the tier system (which admittedly is very subjective and is confirmed early on).

 

[baconshrimps]

Let's shift it back to the original topic on the tier system (which admittedly is very subjective and is confirmed early on).

Okay, I'm fine with that.

 

[qtpai]

Well. About EspadaLeader's name. EspadaLEADER, right? That would be obnoxious enough. Except this.

Espada means sword in Spanish. Meaning: not only is EspadaLeader referencing his self-concept as leader (for our "information," no doubt 🙄)... but he's also the SWORDLeader.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I think of swords, I get to thinking about Introduction to Psychology. I get to thinking about Freud.

Then, I get to thinking... bingo. Espada = penis.

Whose penis? EspadaLeader's penis. And it is a penis that leads. He is going to point us in the right direction, as it were. With his 17 acceptances--which can, incidentally, also be signified by a huge penis.

EspadaLeader = PenisLeader.

Could you be any more obnoxious, PenisLeader?

 

[Willy38]

I guess this thread has it all lol

 

[SilentSoldier]

Well. About EspadaLeader's name. EspadaLEADER, right? That would be obnoxious enough. Except this.

Espada means sword in Spanish. Meaning: not only is EspadaLeader referencing his self-concept as leader (for our "information," no doubt 🙄)... but he's also the SWORDLeader.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I think of swords, I get to thinking about Introduction to Psychology. I get to thinking about Freud.

Then, I get to thinking... bingo. Espada = penis.

Whose penis? EspadaLeader's penis. And it is a penis that leads. He is going to point us in the right direction, as it were. With his 17 acceptances--which can, incidentally, also be signified by a huge penis.

EspadaLeader = PenisLeader.

Could you be any more obnoxious, PenisLeader?

Or he watches the anime Bleach that has characters named espada and chose that username because of it.

 

[487806]

Well. About EspadaLeader's name. EspadaLEADER, right? That would be obnoxious enough. Except this.

Espada means sword in Spanish. Meaning: not only is EspadaLeader referencing his self-concept as leader (for our "information," no doubt 🙄)... but he's also the SWORDLeader.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I think of swords, I get to thinking about Introduction to Psychology. I get to thinking about Freud.

Then, I get to thinking... bingo. Espada = penis.

Whose penis? EspadaLeader's penis. And it is a penis that leads. He is going to point us in the right direction, as it were. With his 17 acceptances--which can, incidentally, also be signified by a huge penis.

EspadaLeader = PenisLeader.

Could you be any more obnoxious, PenisLeader?

I'm just quoting this post before the edit.

Or he watches the anime Bleach that has characters named espada and chose that username because of it.

When premeds think of Bleach, they think of sodium hypochlorite (what you should not mix with ammonia)

 

[sourdoughllama]

Sheesh. You guys are sure bitter because someone had a successful app cycle. Throw your envy aside and focus on what @Espadaleader is getting at. Sure, using himself may be an inadequate example, but attacking him out of envy is unwarranted.

I'm not bitter lol, I've interviewed everywhere I've wanted to. I didnt even apply to any of the schools he applied to so I don't give a rat's ass where espadaleader got into. But I do care when pompous people post. Don't be bitter we can call out stupid posts without being bitter!

 

[fuzzytoad]

It's not even that pompous, you guys are being way oversensitive.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I split all schools into Category A and Category B. Category A includes roughly the top 40 in US News. I consider everything in Category A roughly equivalent. Harvard, Cleveland Clinic, UVA, Case Western, Einstein, Rochester, BU etc. All of these schools have phenomenal research, education, residency, and training opportunities. Category B is everything not in Category A.

I am going to be very honest. At any medical school you will be a great doctor but outside of the top 40 in US News the overall opportunities medical schools offer tends to drop. You will not have the same research and clinical opportunities at Tufts, GW, SUNY Buffalo, VCU etc. that you would at Harvard, Rochester, Mayo etc. You can actually see the differences in facilities, research funding opportunities, financial aid etc. Also note that in general, outside the top 40 financial aid is much different than inside the top 40.

Now, some people talk about which schools are better within Category A "BU vs. Harvard vs. Rochester" etc. I honesty believe in the medical community you can come out of all three of those schools with the similar "prestige", research, and clinical skills. But, some people may want to split hairs, and in my case I split Category A into Category A-1 and Category A-2. Category A-1 are schools in the "top 10" roughly. Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Duke, Columbia, Stanford, UCLA etc. I would also throw schools like Mount Sinai in there too. These schools are truly superior. Research, clinical opportunities, curriculum financial aid etc. Category A-2 are the other schools I did not list. For example, Cleveland Clinic. I consider it elite, but its not Harvard or Hopkins.

You can go to any medical school and be successful. Any medical school you go becomes the "best" medical school for you. I get that. However, I think it is important to remember than schools are considered "better" than others.

I also understand that for most students there is no reason to make tiers because the chances are it won't really matter. You got into two medical schools. Go to the one with more financial aid. Simple. For some students that are holding 4, 5, 6, 7 or more offers, tiering helps the decision process easier. For example, I have a friend I met at Hopkins. He got in there, got in at Cleveland, and GW. He withdrew from GW immediately because he wasn't going to go GW over Hopkins or Cleveland (CatA>CatB). However, now he is strongly considering Cleveland over Hopkins because Cleveland's aid would be substantially better than Hopkins. (Both CatA).

Tiering is flawed and imperfect. I'll give you that. But it helps a lot and I think it is necessary for some people.

*Fit is very important but you can find fit at every tier if you net is wide enough.

Do people get financial aid in med school besides the loan(s) that you have to pay back? I see financial aid as something that people don't have to pay back--at least that what it was in undergrad...

 

[Syndicate]

@Espadaleader made very good points in his original on-topic post about tiers and how he categorized them.

I think we can agree that we all naturally feel a bit of animosity towards him because he's gotten into 17 schools, including places like Harvard Hopkins and Yale.

 

[scarletgirl777]

This is the question that breaks the system. Honestly, I don't know. Because of my financial situation I will virtually have tuition paid at every school. 60-75% of COA will be covered by need based aid so fin aid is less of an issue. This question is about your gut feeling and just being honest. Some would go into the debt for Harvard some won't. What if you have children/wife etc. You're in Case and Harvard. Both offer you the same amount. Going to Harvard means you have to leave your wife and children. I bet most people would go to Case because family is the most important.

You can't make that assumption. Some schools have unit loans or force you to borrow an increasing amount of money as you age through the system, even if your parents make $0. Some schools recalculate your aid every year and will decrease it if you have siblings that have since graduated college. One school even said something about med school having to be "a family investment" (meaning your parents), regardless of your age or marital status. Gag me. You should probably submit school-specific financial aid forms for all of the schools you are seriously considering.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Do people get financial aid in med school besides the loan(s) that you have to pay back? I see financial aid as something that people don't have to pay back--at least that what it was in undergrad...

Schools with good financial aid give you scholarships, grants, or at least institutional loans that are interest free or have interest rates lower than the alternatives.

 

[mcloaf]

Schools with good financial aid give you scholarships, grants, or at least loans that are interest free or have interest rates lower than the alternatives.

I'm not sure I would consider this typical. It's probably safest to assume you'll be paying full tuition via federal loans until proven otherwise.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Schools with good financial aid give you scholarships, grants, or at least loans that are interest free or have interest rates lower than the alternatives.

Thanks...

 

[scarletgirl777]

I'm not sure I would consider this typical. It's probably safest to assume you'll be paying full tuition via federal loans until proven otherwise.

I never said it was typical. I said it was what I would consider happens when you go to a school with good financial aid. If a school just loads you up with the standard federal loans, that's not good financial aid. That's just the standard that we're all entitled to.

 

[Espadaleader]

Well. About EspadaLeader's name. EspadaLEADER, right? That would be obnoxious enough. Except this.

Espada means sword in Spanish. Meaning: not only is EspadaLeader referencing his self-concept as leader (for our "information," no doubt 🙄)... but he's also the SWORDLeader.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I think of swords, I get to thinking about Introduction to Psychology. I get to thinking about Freud.

Then, I get to thinking... bingo. Espada = penis.

Whose penis? EspadaLeader's penis. And it is a penis that leads. He is going to point us in the right direction, as it were. With his 17 acceptances--which can, incidentally, also be signified by a huge penis.

EspadaLeader = PenisLeader.

Could you be any more obnoxious, PenisLeader?

This is wrong.

I'm just quoting this post before the edit.



When premeds think of Bleach, they think of sodium hypochlorite (what you should not mix with ammonia)

This is right lol

@Espadaleader made very good points in his original on-topic post about tiers and how he categorized them.

I think we can agree that we all naturally feel a bit of animosity towards him because he's gotten into 17 schools, including places like Harvard Hopkins and Yale.

Thanks for the shout-out. I didn't get into 17 schools, I withdrew from a good bunch. Also, I am doing nothing special. There are plenty of people like @JediOchoa and @Trayshawn that have done way better than I have.

 

[ChemEngMD]

FWIW,

You cannot simply say that @Espadaleader got all of his acceptances due to URM status. There are plenty of us with URM status that haven't had nearly as successful of cycles as him or some of the other URM SDN all-stars. There are all-stars in every grouping. KDizzle smashed last year's cycle and there are people this year like eleveneleven who are getting crazy amounts of love from tons of schools.

Whatever magic sauce Espada's cooking, it's not due to URM status, but rather whatever his personal story is and his reasons for going into medicine. Obviously a lot of schools have seen something special in the dude and I can't do anything but congratulate him.

Congratulations. You're gonna be a damn good physician, my brother.

 

[487806]

FWIW,

You cannot simply say that @Espadaleader got all of his acceptances due to URM status. There are plenty of us with URM status that haven't had nearly as successful of cycles as him or some of the other URM SDN all-stars. There are all-stars in every grouping. KDizzle smashed last year's cycle and there are people this year like eleveneleven who are getting crazy amounts of love from tons of schools.

Whatever magic sauce Espada's cooking, it's not due to URM status, but rather whatever his personal story is and his reasons for going into medicine. Obviously a lot of schools have seen something special in the dude and I can't do anything but congratulate him.

Congratulations. You're gonna be a damn good physician, my brother.

Finally. Another eloquent support for @Espadaleader despite a massive rage of hate due to sheer envy.

 

[Espadaleader]

I know I had alot of drinks at this Ghana celebration (Happy Birthday Ghana!) so I needed to refocus... The penis leader line had me dying laughing. Yes, I am the penis leader. Aizen and Gin in my profile pic are just covers for what I really am lmao

 

[487806]

I know I had alot of drinks at this Ghana celebration (Happy Birthday Ghana!) so I needed to refocus... The penis leader line had me dying laughing. Yes, I am the penis leader. Aizen and Gin in my profile pic are just covers for what I really am lmao

Aizen is pathetic. Come at me bro.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Dude seriously, don't brag about the schools you were accepted to when you don't even have an MDapps. Seriously, the whole 17 medical school thing is a bit over-the-top, and usually the only people who make that kind of splash at medical schools are URMs, so unless you want to be called out on your URM status as opposed to an admissions system operating as a meritocracy, stop bragging about your 17 acceptances. Honestly, it would have been sufficient to say "I've been accepted to a range of schools and I am trying to figure out what my best option will be," but instead you've been opting to pat yourself on the back and maybe try and sway the minds on SDN into further stroking your ego. Seriously, I've been accepted to 5 schools (that's 12 less than you if we're keeping score) but your 17 is far less impressive to me.

My name is Rufus, and that's the trufus.

Lets hear some stats and back it up with MDapps. Otherwise, drop the demi-god act, it's annoying.

Dude, OP may have come off like a douche, but you came off like an even bigger douche and apparently a prejudiced one at that. At least OP's responses make it seem like he can be redeemed--you sir, are a lost cause.

 

[baconshrimps]

Dude, OP may have come off like a douche, but you came off like an even bigger douche and apparently a prejudiced one at that. At least OP's responses make it seem like he can be redeemed--you sir, are a lost cause.

Like I said previously, my comment was not meant to stimulate a URM debate that being said, acknowledging that a URM advantage exists does not equate to racism or prejudice. Is as simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[baconshrimps]

Further, I do not hold any personal problem with that, however when a individual is so willing to deny that there was an advantageous element to their application it is delusional and infuriating.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Like I said previously, my comment was not meant to stimulate a URM debate that being said, acknowledging that a URM advantage exists does not equate to racism or prejudice. Is as simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less.

You implied that the only reason you could hold a lot of acceptances is by being a URM taking advantage of an unmeritocratic system through URM status. It's really quite clear.

 

[baconshrimps]

You implied that the only reason you could hold a lot of acceptances is by being a URM taking advantage of an unmeritocratic system through URM status. It's really quite clear.

It is regrettable, how errant your logic is friend.

I am not saying that all 17 of their acceptances were because they were a URM. In a number of ways, I am certain that there were items on the individuals application that warranted their consideration. However, to say that it was sufficient to carry them to 17 acceptances is delusional.

You are also confused. I was not suggesting that the applicant took advantage of any system. If you identify as someone who falls into the category of URM, it obviously makes senses to identify yourself as such in the application. You are suggesting that I am prejudiced. Let me make it very clear, that I am not racist, I am not prejudiced, nor am I anti-URM by any means. These URM programs exist for a very good reason, and that is to help address the unmet health care needs of sects of our society that have previously been cast aside. However, to meet this goal, because so few URM's apply to medical school to begin with, the admissions committees must cut these applicants a break, and it is often reflected in the GPA/MCAT category. I am sure that many people here will agree, that a WASP applicant with the same or similar kind of personal story in their application, may get a considerable number of interviews and acceptances - but not so great as 17.

So, you should realize, that I was reminding that those 17 acceptances were not likely based on the merit of that persons application in their entirety, but because of this URM advantage, which is very real. Does that mean I am saying they took advantage of a system? No, because that would imply some kind of dishonesty either in their application or how they represented themselves. I am not in a position to make that judgement call, and frankly that is a serious offense.

So, if you'd like to carry on thinking that I am prejudiced, I am fine with that. Just know that you are very wrong in that thought.

You should avoid jumping to conclusions. When you assume, you make an ass out of u but not me 😉

 

[scarletgirl777]

It is regrettable, how errant your logic is friend.

I am not saying that all 17 of their acceptances were because they were a URM. In a number of ways, I am certain that there were items on the individuals application that warranted their consideration. However, to say that it was sufficient to carry them to 17 acceptances is delusional.

You are also confused. I was not suggesting that the applicant took advantage of any system. If you identify as someone who falls into the category of URM, it obviously makes senses to identify yourself as such in the application. You are suggesting that I am prejudiced. Let me make it very clear, that I am not racist, I am not prejudiced, nor am I anti-URM by any means. These URM programs exist for a very good reason, and that is to help address the unmet health care needs of sects of our society that have previously been cast aside. However, to meet this goal, because so few URM's apply to medical school to begin with, the admissions committees must cut these applicants a break, and it is often reflected in the GPA/MCAT category. I am sure that many people here will agree, that a WASP applicant with the same or similar kind of personal story in their application, may get a considerable number of interviews and acceptances - but not so great as 17.

So, you should realize, that I was reminding that those 17 acceptances were not likely based on the merit of that persons application in their entirety, but because of this URM advantage, which is very real. Does that mean I am saying they took advantage of a system? No, because that would imply some kind of dishonesty either in their application or how they represented themselves. I am not in a position to make that judgement call, and frankly that is a serious offense.

So, if you'd like to carry on thinking that I am prejudiced, I am fine with that. Just know that you are very wrong in that thought.

You should avoid jumping to conclusions. When you assume, you make an ass out of u but not me 😉

I have met white and Asian applicants who have beasted their application cycles and impressed adcoms at the majority of the top 20. Some people are just Gs. Again, by assuming that a particular individual has done that well only because they are URM, you are displaying prejudice. Let me repeat that: by ruling out the possibility of excellence being the primary explanation of success because of an individual's race, you are displaying prejudice. Your personal beliefs about the justice/injustice of affirmative action have nothing to do with this fact.

However, I have seen your posts in other threads, and you are likely just going to keep being defensive. I will not push this issue further.

 

[Selah]

I'm always amazed at how frequently individuals on SDN attack others for little or no good reason. That is NOT a quality that makes for a good physician. Will they be flying off the handle at their own patients, because provocation from patients is inevitable in the field of medicine. Also, they better get over their racism. It is racism, plain and simple, to assume that if a URM is accepted to top schools it is because of their URM status. That URM may have MCAT scores and a GPA that blows you out of the water--and that doesn't even start to touch the accomplishments that distinguish the very top candidates from all the rest who have high MCAT scores and GPAs.

 

[sourdoughllama]

It is racism, plain and simple, to assume that if a URM is accepted to top schools it is because of their URM status. That URM may have MCAT scores and a GPA that blows you out of the water--and that doesn't even start to touch the accomplishments that distinguish the very top candidates from all the rest who have high MCAT scores and GPAs.

Naw dawg. A 33 MCAT with 17 acceptances (lots from top 10) tickles anyone's bodacious logic. Aint nobody questioning the URM with a 40 MCAT and 3.9 at harvard just like no one would question a ORM with the same scores at the same school.

 

[Microglia]

[Insert arbitrary USNWR ranking cutoffs here] /thread

 

[baconshrimps]

I have met white and Asian applicants who have beasted their application cycles and impressed adcoms at the majority of the top 20. Some people are just Gs. Again, by assuming that a particular individual has done that well only because they are URM, you are displaying prejudice. Let me repeat that: by ruling out the possibility of excellence being the primary explanation of success because of an individual's race, you are displaying prejudice. Your personal beliefs about the justice/injustice of affirmative action have nothing to do with this fact.

However, I have seen your posts in other threads, and you are likely just going to keep being defensive. I will not push this issue further.

I'm not going to apologize for standing by conviction.

I really couldn't care less what you or anyone else here thinks, I'm just pointing out why you're wrong yo.

One more time for good measure - I do not have a problem with URM. I have a problem with people who insist that the URM designation doesn't play a role in admissions decisions or who to invite for interviews, when it actually does. Then again, anytime someone makes a comment that does not applaud the URM designation, everyone likes to point to racism. Funny how that works out, because I'm not prejudiced. Coexist man, coexist.

Adios muchachos, BaconShrimp out.

 

[Selah]

Naw dawg. A 33 MCAT with 17 acceptances (lots from top 10) tickles anyone's bodacious logic. Aint nobody questioning the URM with a 40 MCAT and 3.9 at harvard just like no one would question a ORM with the same scores at the same school.

Ah, but many people do make assumptions about any URM accepted to Harvard. They will assume URM advantage first, and probably never know that the URM had a 40 MCAT and 3.9 GPA. I know that happens.

 

[baconshrimps]

Ah, but many people do make assumptions about any URM accepted to Harvard. They will assume URM advantage first, and probably never know that the URM had a 40 MCAT and 3.9 GPA. I know that happens.

You will probably admit, that keeping stats a secret does not help alleviate that problem, yes?
Oh, so much could be resolved with an MDapps profile. lol

 

[sourdoughllama]

Ah, but many people do make assumptions about any URM accepted to Harvard. They will assume URM advantage first, and probably never know that the URM had a 40 MCAT and 3.9 GPA. I know that happens.

Ain't nothin but the truth. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to preferentially treat one demographic, you're gonna get that stereotype (and this one is warranted because it's empirically proven)

 

[Selah]

I haven't said one word in favor or against affirmative action. But clearly, it is prejudice to prejudge an individual on the color of his/her skin and assume that his/her acceptance to a top medical school is due to URM advantage (while never knowing that person's stats--only his/her skin color).

 

[hubriz]

Not inaccurate, be offended if you wish. The point was not to stimulate yet ANOTHER URM debate, but to point out where their accomplishments are coming from, and why it's not a reason to brag. If they don't feel like proving themselves, that is fine - this is the interbuttz after all. However, if you don't want to be accountable for the words of your mouth, don't talk. Like I said, I gave a vastly more innocuous way for him to have made his point. Espadaloser pisses people off on the forum. I mean, I'm probably no exception, but I felt like calling him out on it, so I did.

Further, I do not hold any personal problem with that, however when a individual is so willing to deny that there was an advantageous element to their application it is delusional and infuriating.

I'm not going to apologize for standing by conviction.

I really couldn't care less what you or anyone else here thinks, I'm just pointing out why you're wrong yo.

One more time for good measure - I do not have a problem with URM. I have a problem with people who insist that the URM designation doesn't play a role in admissions decisions or who to invite for interviews, when it actually does. Then again, anytime someone makes a comment that does not applaud the URM designation, everyone likes to point to racism. Funny how that works out, because I'm not prejudiced. Coexist man, coexist.

Adios muchachos, BaconShrimp out.

Baconshrimps, perhaps you should read this post and reconsider how you interpret one's position on the URM advantage. You are, in fact, the author of it.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/entitlement-and-the-olympiad-of-oppression.1057924/

You are infuriated when URMs and others deny the advantage URMs are afforded, and you are infuriated when ORMs proclaim their disadvantage as a rationale for not getting into medical school.

I suppose you believe you are the only one who can have a valid opinion on the subject matter, albeit an inconsistent one.

You find it tactless that one points out their 17 acceptances, while usurping that debate to refer to your 5 acceptances.

You consistently provoke the URM debate, while simultaneously claiming to not wanting to enter into the fray of it.

You are quick to lash out at folks for derailing your thread (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/entitlement-and-the-olympiad-of-oppression.1057924/) but you have derailed this one.

Although you said that you don't care what anyone thinks, I ask that you please take a moment to gather insight into your behavior on this forum and remind yourself why it exists in the first place. However, if you decide to continue to be closed to other's perspective, you ought to keep yours to yourself.

 

[baconshrimps]

Listen chief, I am not complaining about the URM advantage. I am acknowledging that it exists. I have said nothing disparate about the URM advantage. The only thing I have been disparate about is people who insist it had nothing to do with their success in applying to medical school, let alone 17. Also, lets try and get back to the point that the person I was addressing here originally, has been unrelentingly tactless on SDN in general, and it was about time something was said. Further, 5 acceptances is a modest number, so I would hardly call that bragging. There is nothing I have posted here that contradicts any of the threads I authored, so nice try.

 

[hubriz]

Listen chief, I am not complaining about the URM advantage. I am acknowledging that it exists. I have said nothing disparate about the URM advantage. The only thing I have been disparate about is people who insist it had nothing to do with their success in applying to medical school, let alone 17. Also, lets try and get back to the point that the person I was addressing here originally, has been unrelentingly tactless on SDN in general, and it was about time something was said. Further, 5 acceptances is a modest number, so I would hardly call that bragging. There is nothing I have posted here that contradicts any of the threads I authored, so nice try.

I am of the opinion that you have been tactless. 5 is not modest when compared to 0. I never accused you of complaining about the URM advantage. You attack the people who deny it exists AND the people who accept the ORM disadvantage as rationale for not getting into medical school. As a matter of fact, you attack a lot of people on this forum.

I am fully aware that you are unwilling to reason and admit or perhaps even understand your contradictory behavior.

 

[hubriz]

myself

BTW - congratulations on an awesome cycle. There do exist people that are enthusiastic about others finding great success, and I am one of them.

 

[baconshrimps]

I am of the opinion that you have been tactless. 5 is not modest when compared to 0. I never accused you of complaining about the URM advantage. You attack the people who deny it exists AND the people who accept the ORM disadvantage as rationale for not getting into medical school. As a matter of fact, you attack a lot of people on this forum.

I am fully aware that you are unwilling to reason and admit or perhaps even understand your contradictory behavior.

Just because you call it contradictory, does not make it contradictory.

Also, you seem to like to take things very literally. I know children in high school with better intuition than you.
For your information, my specifically pointing out the ORM or URM disadvantage/advantage was just part of a list of things I see turned over on SDN all too frequently, and was nothing more than a small detail of that thread. If you choose to ignore the overarching theme of my OP in that thread, that is your perogative, but it doesn't make your comment accurate, not in the slightest.

Feel free to ignore me on the forums if you think I'm such a nusiance - alot of other people seem to back me up when I have something to say, moreso than people who contest it.

 

[krogers21]

Who knew pre-medical students with egos taller than the Eiffel Tower (eh, baconshrimps? ) would be so gossipy? I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, but this topic went from defining the tiers of med schools (something already very egotistical in it's own right) to URMs. I think we all are missing the point. So what if a URM gets in to medical school with lower scores? A URM is just that, under represented. Incentives are given out to increase the representation that the medical community would love to see. Think of it like this. Applicants with ridiculously high scores, great ECs, and great LoRs are fought over by ADCOMs because they bring signs of future change in the medical community. The same principle applies with URMs. We shouldn't be worrying about whether Joe Schmoe is a URM or not. We should be helping each other thrive to be the best they can be. We should help URMs so that if they were to retake the MCAT, they would blow it out of the water. We shouldn't hate change, we should accept it with open arms. Some patients may live in fear of attending a physician because they do not want to see a ORM. Being the pre-medical (or medical) student that you are - hopefully with compassion for others, would you not search for a physician that would meet their needs so they get the medical treatment they deserve? I would hope you'd search the world right and left for the proper help.

 

[baconshrimps]

Who knew pre-medical students with egos taller than the Eiffel Tower (eh, baconshrimps? ) would be so gossipy? I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, but this topic went from defining the tiers of med schools (something already very egotistical in it's own right) to URMs. I think we all are missing the point. So what if a URM gets in to medical school with lower scores? A URM is just that, under represented. Incentives are given out to increase the representation that the medical community would love to see. Think of it like this. Applicants with ridiculously high scores, great ECs, and great LoRs are fought over by ADCOMs because they bring signs of future change in the medical community. The same principle applies with URMs. We shouldn't be worrying about whether Joe Schmoe is a URM or not. We should be helping each other thrive to be the best they can be. We should help URMs so that if they were to retake the MCAT, they would blow it out of the water. We shouldn't hate change, we should accept it with open arms. Some patients may live in fear of attending a physician because they do not want to see a ORM. Being the pre-medical (or medical) student that you are - hopefully with compassion for others, would you not search for a physician that would meet their needs so they get the medical treatment they deserve? I would hope you'd search the world right and left for the proper help.

You sure about that one? (bolded)

 

[hubriz]

Just because you call it contradictory, does not make it contradictory.

Also, you seem to like to take things very literally. I know children in high school with better intuition than you.
For your information, my specifically pointing out the ORM or URM disadvantage/advantage was just part of a list of things I see turned over on SDN all too frequently, and was nothing more than a small detail of that thread. If you choose to ignore the overarching theme of my OP in that thread, that is your perogative, but it doesn't make your comment accurate, not in the slightest.

Feel free to ignore me on the forums if you think I'm such a nusiance - alot of other people seem to back me up when I have something to say, moreso than people who contest it.

Next time you have an idea...just let it go.

 

[baconshrimps]

Next time you have an idea...just let it go.

Excellent rhetoric sir, excellent.

Okay seriously I'm done here.

Good luck figuring out your program tiers kiddoz.

 

[krogers21]

You sure about that one? (bolded)

If you're referring to yourself, I wasn't speaking about you. In fact, I understand the definition of a disclaimer. 🙂

Good luck running in 2016, haha.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Dang, if nothing else this thread is showing me I clearly need to become more observant or quick to outrage. I didn't even think @Espadaleader said anything that crazy controversial...

 

[Willy38]

Who knew pre-medical students with egos taller than the Eiffel Tower (eh, baconshrimps? ) would be so gossipy? I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, but this topic went from defining the tiers of med schools (something already very egotistical in it's own right) to URMs. I think we all are missing the point. So what if a URM gets in to medical school with lower scores? A URM is just that, under represented. Incentives are given out to increase the representation that the medical community would love to see. Think of it like this. Applicants with ridiculously high scores, great ECs, and great LoRs are fought over by ADCOMs because they bring signs of future change in the medical community. The same principle applies with URMs. We shouldn't be worrying about whether Joe Schmoe is a URM or not. We should be helping each other thrive to be the best they can be. We should help URMs so that if they were to retake the MCAT, they would blow it out of the water. We shouldn't hate change, we should accept it with open arms. Some patients may live in fear of attending a physician because they do not want to see a ORM. Being the pre-medical (or medical) student that you are - hopefully with compassion for others, would you not search for a physician that would meet their needs so they get the medical treatment they deserve? I would hope you'd search the world right and left for the proper help.

Wasn't trying to be egotistical. Just trying to get an idea so I know how to apply when I'm advised to apply to x amount of so and so tier.

 

[Psai]

I split all schools into Category A and Category B. Category A includes roughly the top 40 in US News. I consider everything in Category A roughly equivalent. Harvard, Cleveland Clinic, UVA, Case Western, Einstein, Rochester, BU etc. All of these schools have phenomenal research, education, residency, and training opportunities. Category B is everything not in Category A.

I am going to be very honest. At any medical school you will be a great doctor but outside of the top 40 in US News the overall opportunities medical schools offer tends to drop. You will not have the same research and clinical opportunities at Tufts, GW, SUNY Buffalo, VCU etc. that you would at Harvard, Rochester, Mayo etc. You can actually see the differences in facilities, research funding opportunities, financial aid etc. Also note that in general, outside the top 40 financial aid is much different than inside the top 40.

Now, some people talk about which schools are better within Category A "BU vs. Harvard vs. Rochester" etc. I honesty believe in the medical community you can come out of all three of those schools with the similar "prestige", research, and clinical skills. But, some people may want to split hairs, and in my case I split Category A into Category A-1 and Category A-2. Category A-1 are schools in the "top 10" roughly. Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Duke, Columbia, Stanford, UCLA etc. I would also throw schools like Mount Sinai in there too. These schools are truly superior. Research, clinical opportunities, curriculum financial aid etc. Category A-2 are the other schools I did not list. For example, Cleveland Clinic. I consider it elite, but its not Harvard or Hopkins.

You can go to any medical school and be successful. Any medical school you go becomes the "best" medical school for you. I get that. However, I think it is important to remember than schools are considered "better" than others.

I also understand that for most students there is no reason to make tiers because the chances are it won't really matter. You got into two medical schools. Go to the one with more financial aid. Simple. For some students that are holding 4, 5, 6, 7 or more offers, tiering helps the decision process easier. For example, I have a friend I met at Hopkins. He got in there, got in at Cleveland, and GW. He withdrew from GW immediately because he wasn't going to go GW over Hopkins or Cleveland (CatA>CatB). However, now he is strongly considering Cleveland over Hopkins because Cleveland's aid would be substantially better than Hopkins. (Both CatA).

Tiering is flawed and imperfect. I'll give you that. But it helps a lot and I think it is necessary for some people.

*Fit is very important but you can find fit at every tier if you net is wide enough.

There is no equivalence in schools. True. You can't compare because at this point in time, you care about things that don't matter or that you can't change and you don't know what is important. For example, SUNY Downstate is not considered a top school but they have a pretty good reputation for clinical training and because their class size is so large, the alumni network is large as well. When you're looking for a job, the best thing is to have people who know people put in a good word for you. About research opportunities, you can do research at your school but a lot of people do research at summer programs (such as in MSKCC) or they can do it at other schools. My buddy is at a state school and he's about to publish a first author paper in the Annals of Surgery. Not many people do research during the year as they go through medical school because there's only so much time. Research is becoming more and more important for applying to competitive residencies but when NIH funding is at 8%, many people are having problems with funding.

Curriculum? You'll be learning basically the same material at every school in the first two years. There's a reason why everyone uses UWorld and First Aid for Step 1 studying. You don't learn secret diseases at Harvard or Hopkins that are only reserved for top tier schools which aren't taught at the Cleveland Clinic. P/F might make things more relaxed and your peers are generally at a higher level but many people in academics are from the same places. The less mandatory stuff there is, the more time you have to teach yourself which is what's going to happen. Many applicants salivate over PBL and then find out that it's not what they thought it would be. Facilities? It's nice to have a pretty place to study in but I think it's a non-issue in terms of medical education. You'll be sitting around staring at powerpoint slides or reading books all day. Clinical skills? Your clinical experience will vary greatly based on who is on your team. Different hospitals have different systems and different cultures. You might have a resident that's a great teacher and gives you a lot to do or you might be stuck with someone who hates your guts and doesn't want to teach you a thing.

Go to the better regarded school if you can. Name matters. A GI doc who trained at Yale said that he thought UMich had a much better GI program than Yale. The blue seal makes a difference. But it doesn't matter as much as you think and for different reasons.

 

[terp720]

Wasn't trying to be egotistical. Just trying to get an idea so I know how to apply when I'm advised to apply to x amount of so and so tier.

I don't think this is necessarily the best tactic. If you're applying to 15 schools for example, applying to 5 "top tier", 5 "mid' and 5 "bottom tier" schools may not make sense at all depending on your stats (whether they are high or low).
Invest in the MSAR (and USNWR if you want) or use the spreadsheet floating around to base your school choice, not just wanting to go to a certain tier school (not that you do, necessarily).

Whether or not a school is a certain tier doesn't really matter if you choose your school list poorly.