Can someone educate a noob on the public option?

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vin5cent0

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So I'm trying to learn about the public option, but I cannot find anything on the internet. Everything I hear from friends is very biased, not to mention all the advertising on TV lately.

Basically, what I'm wondering is how will it be funded? Taxes? Why do people think health care quality will go down with a public option? What about it makes people think that will happen?

Thanks for any (non-biased) info 👍👍
 
The "original idea" for the public option was to give people the option to get the same type of insurance that government workers are eligible for. People could keep their insurance through their jobs or choose this. If they had insurance through their jobs and chose the public option, their employers would be expected to pay a certain percentage of the new plan (similar to what they were paying for the group plan at the job). This was also to allow people who worked at jobs that did not offer insurance to have another avenue open to them.

A lot of people confuse "public option" with "single payer", which means that the government pays for your insurance (i.e. socialized medicine, similar to Europe and Canada). The insurance would be subsidized through taxes, etc. and for the most part would only be through one provider. The "crazy" reason to be against this is those who think we would then be a Communist country. A logical reason to be against this would be that with only one payer, there would not be anymore confusion about coding/medical billing across insurance companies, so all the people with jobs in medical billing would most likely be cut, and pretty much all the other non-government-run insurance companies would close. (This is a worst-case scenario, but could happen).

As for the actual public option, I think some people are afraid that it would decrease competitiveness between insurance companies and again only favor the one the government is using (more people=lower overall group cost=lower premiums?).

The positives are in that people who were not eligible for insurance otherwise would be able to get a policy. Lower group prices means lower costs....which could in turn make other companies lower their premiums to stay competitive, so those without the public insurance would also benefit. You can argue "free market" for both sides of the debate. Also, if you think the insurance through your job sucks (and in some cases it does), you do have another choice instead of trying to find private insurance (which oftentimes is more expensive).

This was a really basic explanation (and at times contradictory) but it all depends on your point of view....Some people see it as really good and others do not.
 
The public option as it is now (which isn't even on the table) would not be funded through taxes (the initial start-up costs probably would be in some way carried by us); it would be your choice whether you wish to pay for the public plan as opposed to the private plans. Basically this single payer system will ensure affordable health care by competing with the wasteful insurance companies, who are notorious for habitually denying care without a medically valid reason. Furthermore the private insurance companies employ tactics to deny claims that are very wasteful and lead to 30 percent of the costs associated with private health insurance. What is most problematic with this health care "reform" (I put this in quotes because nothing will change from this except our debt) is that it does not address any of the fundamental flaws in our pay for service system. It will not repeal the anti-trust exemption, it will not increase medicare pay-outs sufficiently, it will not institutionalize tort reform, it will not incentivize better care over more care; it is truly and utterly a prime example of political corruption (read: health care lobbies) and backwards politics.
I hope I wasn't too biased (i.e., informed) for you.
 
The "original idea" for the public option was to give people the option to get the same type of insurance that government workers are eligible for. People could keep their insurance through their jobs or choose this. If they had insurance through their jobs and chose the public option, their employers would be expected to pay a certain percentage of the new plan (similar to what they were paying for the group plan at the job). This was also to allow people who worked at jobs that did not offer insurance to have another avenue open to them.

A lot of people confuse "public option" with "single payer", which means that the government pays for your insurance (i.e. socialized medicine, similar to Europe and Canada). The insurance would be subsidized through taxes, etc. and for the most part would only be through one provider. The "crazy" reason to be against this is those who think we would then be a Communist country. A logical reason to be against this would be that with only one payer, there would not be anymore confusion about coding/medical billing across insurance companies, so all the people with jobs in medical billing would most likely be cut, and pretty much all the other non-government-run insurance companies would close. (This is a worst-case scenario, but could happen).

As for the actual public option, I think some people are afraid that it would decrease competitiveness between insurance companies and again only favor the one the government is using (more people=lower overall group cost=lower premiums?).

The positives are in that people who were not eligible for insurance otherwise would be able to get a policy. Lower group prices means lower costs....which could in turn make other companies lower their premiums to stay competitive, so those without the public insurance would also benefit. You can argue "free market" for both sides of the debate. Also, if you think the insurance through your job sucks (and in some cases it does), you do have another choice instead of trying to find private insurance (which oftentimes is more expensive).

This was a really basic explanation (and at times contradictory) but it all depends on your point of view....Some people see it as really good and others do not.


doesnt seem so bad the way u tell it.. i've never really understood national economics but I dont see much wrong in this public option system
 
doesnt seem so bad the way u tell it.. i've never really understood national economics but I dont see much wrong in this public option system

The general opposition to the public option is basically that it equates to more governmental control over the health care sector. If the gov insures more people, it will have more influence over physicians remunerations and what treatments and procedures get covered.
 
"anything the government runs is no good" is the general mantra, but that's not to say we shouldn't be wary about more government involvement.
 
doesnt seem so bad the way u tell it.. i've never really understood national economics but I dont see much wrong in this public option system

There really wasn't anything wrong with this option (imo) but as soon as some people hear about government involvement they start yelling "COMMUNIST" and then people get confused and start arguing about the completely wrong thing.

As far as I know, though, the public option has been taken out of most of the proposed healthcare reform bills.

I think they raelly should have put more legwork into the logistics and had some sort of plan in place before the idea of a public option was presented. It got taken out before it even had a chance. I mean there could be some seriously flaw that I am unaware of, but from what was actually discussed there really wasn't that much to be against. It promoted competitiveness in the marketplace, which is severly needed. In MN, we have 3 insurance companies that basically control all of our costs. If another option was brought in, it could have lowered costs for everyone.

But then again, I may an optimistic socialist 😉
 
There really wasn't anything wrong with this option (imo) but as soon as some people hear about government involvement they start yelling "COMMUNIST" and then people get confused and start arguing about the completely wrong thing.

As far as I know, though, the public option has been taken out of most of the proposed healthcare reform bills.

I think they raelly should have put more legwork into the logistics and had some sort of plan in place before the idea of a public option was presented. It got taken out before it even had a chance. I mean there could be some seriously flaw that I am unaware of, but from what was actually discussed there really wasn't that much to be against. It promoted competitiveness in the marketplace, which is severly needed. In MN, we have 3 insurance companies that basically control all of our costs. If another option was brought in, it could have lowered costs for everyone.

But then again, I may an optimistic socialist 😉

where's mccarthy when you need him? go distill vodka from potatoes, commie!
 
As far as I know, though, the public option has been taken out of most of the proposed healthcare reform bills

5 Congressional committees (2 in the Senate, 3 in the House) have currently passed health-care reform bills, and 4 of them contained a public option. The only exception was the Senate Finance Committee, run by the more moderate Dem Max Baucus, but this is the one that got the most attention because it worked the hardest to generate a compromise that would appeal to Republicans like Olympia Snowe.

The full House of Representatives will almost definitely end up passing a bill containing a robust public option; meanwhile, it is unclear whether the bill that will be voted on in the Senate will eventually contain one. The news coming out today makes it likely that Majority Leader Reid, who is responsible for creating a single bill out of the two ones crafted in comittee, will draft a bill that includes the so-call "opt-out" public option--that is, a government-run insurance program that states legislatures would have the power to block from being offered to their citizens.

vickpick said:
doesnt seem so bad the way u tell it.. i've never really understood national economics but I dont see much wrong in this public option system

The truth is that the public option, or at least any incarnation that has a chance of becoming law, would not be large enough in scope to do either tremendous good or tremendous bad. First of all, the public option would only be offered to a narrow slice of the general public--people who aren't given insurance by their employers, and who also fall into certain low-to-mid income categories, I believe. So there isn't really any worry that the public option will dominate the market and crowd out private ensurers, despite what critics claim. In fact, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that at most 12 million people would enroll in the plan as created in one of the bills (I don't remember which one).

Also, any public option would--beyond initial startup costs--be paid by the premiums of the people who chose to enroll (just like a private insurance plan), so there's no danger of the public option becoming a budget-buster. Actually, the public option is estimated to *save* the government some ~50 billion dollars over 10 years, since having a government competitor in the market will drive down costs generally (to what extent is the subject of debate), leading to government savings in Medicare and Medicaid.

Finally, the bills coming out the Senate will probably have the government negotiate with health-care providers to come up with rates (i.e., how much doctors get paid for procedures), rather than tying the rates to what Medicare pays. So the public option won't be devastating to doctors' income.

The real justification for the public option is two-fold. First, one of the main goals of health-care reform is to guarantee that everyone has basic coverage, and one of the most important steps to making that happen is to pass the so-called "individual mandate"--a low forcing people to buy insurance (a lot of people, especially young people, don't buy insurance because they naively don't think they'll get sick, and then sooner or later they show up in an emergency room in need of care). However, to pass an individual mandate without a public option is kind of ridiculous: you're essentially forcing people to buy something from private companies that is over-priced, padding the pockets of the insurance companies at the expense of the individual's (or in some cases, the taxpayer's) money. Offering the (presumably cheaper, but also more basic) government-run insurance plan to these people ensures that, though they have to buy something, they at least have a legitimate choice about what to buy.

Second, the public option is claimed to be able to drive down health-care costs generally. This is because (a) you're simply inserting another competitor in a market which is typically dominated by just a few insurers, (b) the government will have a lot of bargaining power to keep costs low, and (c) the government plan won't waste money through profits or advertising and will probably have lower overhead (as Medicare done), thereby putting pressure on private insurers to keep premiums low. This will, in principle, benefit everyone who pays for healthcare, even if they aren't eligible or don't chose the public option.
 
Researching facts and gaining insight from both sides of an argument is probably a much safer way of becoming informed than posting for opinions on internet forums.
 
The Public Option is predicated on the notion that a non-profit "insurance" plan will force private insurance companies to lower premiums in order to remain competitive.

Unfortunately, I doubt that adding yet another insurance plan to the market will do that. The system is designed such that competition among insurance companies will do little, if anything, to actually lower costs.

In fact, insurance companies really don't have that much power to lower costs across the system - they're merely a part of the problem, and without strong reform to address the other parts of the health care system, reform to any one component won't do much.
 
The public option as it is now (which isn't even on the table) would not be funded through taxes (the initial start-up costs probably would be in some way carried by us); it would be your choice whether you wish to pay for the public plan as opposed to the private plans. Basically this single payer system will ensure affordable health care by competing with the wasteful insurance companies, who are notorious for habitually denying care without a medically valid reason. Furthermore the private insurance companies employ tactics to deny claims that are very wasteful and lead to 30 percent of the costs associated with private health insurance. What is most problematic with this health care "reform" (I put this in quotes because nothing will change from this except our debt) is that it does not address any of the fundamental flaws in our pay for service system. It will not repeal the anti-trust exemption, it will not increase medicare pay-outs sufficiently, it will not institutionalize tort reform, it will not incentivize better care over more care; it is truly and utterly a prime example of political corruption (read: health care lobbies) and backwards politics.
I hope I wasn't too biased (i.e., informed) for you.

Strong ignorance


OP: Sassilysweet explained it well.
 
The "original idea" for the public option was to give people the option to get the same type of insurance that government workers are eligible for.

I don't entirely agree. The public option finds its policy root in writings that Yale Political Science Professor Jacob Hacker did when he was a graduate student. There is a good (and recent) Salon interview with him here.

His original idea was to build a plan around expanded access to Medicare (he termed it "Medicare Plus"). The later incarnation was called "Health Care For America."

sassilysweet said:
A lot of people confuse "public option" with "single payer", which means that the government pays for your insurance (i.e. socialized medicine, similar to Europe and Canada).

Clearly the terminology remains somewhat loose, but there are some important differences between single payer and bona fide socialized medicine. Single payer simply means that medical services are billed to one source of reimbursement: the government. In Canada each province does this. Taiwan is another example. In either case most or all of the medical care received is obtained from private providers operating on a fee-for-service model. Much like the American system at large.

Socialized medicine implies that the public/government owns the healthcare delivery apparatus (hospitals and clinics), and directly employs the providers, who are most often salaried. The UK has the best example of this, although the VA system in America is quite close.

I do think it's a little unfair to paint all the healthcare systems of Europe together as monochromatically socialized. There are, I think, 47 independent nations in Europe, and each has its own unique system.
 
I don't entirely agree. The public option finds its policy root in writings that Yale Political Science Professor Jacob Hacker did when he was a graduate student. There is a good (and recent) Salon interview with him here.

His original idea was to build a plan around expanded access to Medicare (he termed it "Medicare Plus"). The later incarnation was called "Health Care For America."



Clearly the terminology remains somewhat loose, but there are some important differences between single payer and bona fide socialized medicine. Single payer simply means that medical services are billed to one source of reimbursement: the government. In Canada each province does this. Taiwan is another example. In either case most or all of the medical care received is obtained from private providers operating on a fee-for-service model. Much like the American system at large.

Socialized medicine implies that the public/government owns the healthcare delivery apparatus (hospitals and clinics), and directly employs the providers, who are most often salaried. The UK has the best example of this, although the VA system in America is quite close.

I do think it's a little unfair to paint all the healthcare systems of Europe together as monochromatically socialized. There are, I think, 47 independent nations in Europe, and each has its own unique system.

Hence my comment that it was a VERY BASIC explanation and therefore generalized.

I didn't mean that the idea of a public option didn't exist before this past election cycle. I was talking about the administration's basis of a public option.
 
Hence my comment that it was a VERY BASIC explanation and therefore generalized.

Just a pet peeve of mine. We can appreciate the distinctions between Mississippi and Maryland, why do we insist on lumping together Portugal and Poland?

sassilysweet said:
I didn't mean that the idea of a public option didn't exist before this past election cycle. I was talking about the administration's basis of a public option.

And that basis is a publicly funded insurance system, not opening up the private insurers that many government employees use.
 
The public option is intended to put the private insurance companies out of business, leading to a government-run single payer system. Obama said this himself a few years ago, before he ran for president.

The private insurers will not be able to compete with the government because the government does not need to make a profit, or even break even. It can cover losses by raising taxes, etc. Also, while proponents claim that the public option will have limited enrollment, companies will eventually dump their private coverage, making the employees eligible. I believe Walmart was accused of basically doing this, limiting hours and pay of employees to the point that they were eligible for Medicaid health coverage.

The public option, as well as the entire attempt at health care "reform," will be an unmitigated disaster if it passes. First, even if the "reform" is good in theory, we can count on the government to mess it up. It didn't handle the much simpler "cash for clunkers" program so well, did it? Second, the Obama clearly targets those it believes make too much money. Like executives. And doctors. Some Medicaid/Medicare reimbursements are so low that they don't cover the cost of providing the services. Do you really think this will improve under a government-run plan, single-payer or otherwise?

Health care "reform" must be stopped.
 
The public option is intended to put the private insurance companies out of business, leading to a government-run single payer system. Obama said this himself a few years ago, before he ran for president.

The private insurers will not be able to compete with the government because the government does not need to make a profit, or even break even. It can cover losses by raising taxes, etc. Also, while proponents claim that the public option will have limited enrollment, companies will eventually dump their private coverage, making the employees eligible. I believe Walmart was accused of basically doing this, limiting hours and pay of employees to the point that they were eligible for Medicaid health coverage.

The public option, as well as the entire attempt at health care "reform," will be an unmitigated disaster if it passes. First, even if the "reform" is good in theory, we can count on the government to mess it up. It didn't handle the much simpler "cash for clunkers" program so well, did it? Second, the Obama clearly targets those it believes make too much money. Like executives. And doctors. Some Medicaid/Medicare reimbursements are so low that they don't cover the cost of providing the services. Do you really think this will improve under a government-run plan, single-payer or otherwise?

Health care "reform" must be stopped.

Sigh, I don't even know where to begin, Glenn.
 
I agree with literally everything yeastfan21 said. If you're looking for a basic, unbiased view of the public option and all it entails, read his post above. Seriously, do it.

I have a few comments, but quickly, I want to give a definitive layout of single payer vs. socialized medicine vs. the public option.

Single Payer - As mentioned above, this simply refers to any system in which all citizens are REQUIRED to have a single type of insurers administered by the government, and thus, all health care providers bill a single, central insurer. Canada is single payer. Doctors and hospitals in Canada are private. They have no government bureaucracy directing their medical decisions, they just bill to one place. Granted, this lowers salaries because there is no competition for doctors' rates. Doctors don't have to accept Medicare (that's the name of Canada's single payer system), but if they don't, they are usually forced to practice totally concierge medicine.

Medicare in the US is also single payer. All citizens over 65 are required to have it (although you can buy private supplemental insurance through Medicare Advantage). Rates are set by the government, and premiums are subsidized by the government...thus, a small monthly premium (compared to private insurance) is paid based on a sliding scale of income/means. If you have $200,000 to spend a year, you'll pay the full (albeit small) premium. If you have $2000 to spend a year, you'll pay nothing for Medicare.

Socialized Medicine - All doctors and health care workers are employees of the government. They are generally paid a yearly, but incentivized, salary. The UK's National Health Service is a great example here (even in the UK though, you can buy private insurance if you can afford it and would rather not use the NHS). Doctors in socialized medicine are definitely paid less, but their medical education is typically almost free, because they will work for the government upon graduation. There's a bit of leeway here. Like I said, there are private hospitals, doctors, and insurers even in the UK. So if you go that route, it's a bit different.

Now for the public option:

The public option is neither socialized medicine nor single payer. It is simply one plan, among many, which some parts of the population will be able to choose to enroll in. It is not government subsidized, minus a repayable start-up cost, and exists solely on premiums from its customers. There will be a government administration (to lower costs), but no government bureaucrat has any say on medical policy. Just like with private insurers, those decisions (what to cover, when to cover it, etc.) are made by the public option's medical board. The government administrator simply ensures the smooth operation of the plan (just like a private CEO).

Remember that the public option as it now stands is NOT government-funded. It will be paid for by monthly premiums paid by its customers. In fact, the latest CBO estimate actually has it saving well in excess of $50 billion. Of course, this estimate is highly specific to the "type" of public option that ultimately comes out of Congress.

A "weak" public option which negotiates rates with doctors the same way as private insurers saves about $50 billion over 10 years.

A "strong" or "robust" public option which reimburses doctors at Medicare rates + 5% will save closer to $150 billion over 10 years.

Because the plan is not government-subsidized, most of its cost savings are in reduced overhead (2-3% like Medicare vs. 20-30% for private companies) and reimbursement rates. A strong public option saves more money quite frankly BECAUSE it pays doctors less.

Remember that only a small subset of the population will even be able to use this plan. As yeastfan21 mentioned, it appears that it will be limited to middle-to-low income Americans who cannot get insurance from their job. From an economic standpoint, there's a danger that since relatively few people will actually have the plan and since it will pay less anyway, many doctors may choose NOT to accept it. This might pigeonhole public option patients to a few doctors, much like the problems today with Medicaid.

Now, the public option is still AN OPTION. So, if this situation develops, nothing prohibits people from canceling or not renewing their policies (or simply not choosing it in the first place).

There really are three basic ways to look at this scenario.
1) The public option is an ideological tragedy. Because it will not drive any insurers out of business, the only legitimate beef with the public option is that the government should not administer a health care plan. This is basically the same opposition seen from 1960-2000 with Medicare.

2) The public option is useful to drive down costs for people who currently lack insurance and the means to buy it. Like yeastfan21 said, the greatest concern is that we require everyone to have insurance and don't offer people the means to afford it. The public option competes with private insurers directly via an Exchange. If you've ever been to progressive.com, that's what an Exchange is. Unemployed individuals and employers would be able to go on the Exchange and see all of the plans available in their area. They can compare premiums, deductibles, coverage areas, etc. all side-by-side. Even without a public option, this will have a small effect on increasing competition. But for low-to-middle income individuals, the public option will be included in this exchange...further driving down cost (increasing affordability).

3) The public option is too limited in scope to be of much help. For low-to-middle income Americans, the public option is important because it actually will lower costs. However, for the remainder of the country, we won't have access to the public option. Much of the reason for this decision is a desire to keep private insurers in business. Indeed, this policy PREVENTS the much-aligned development of a single payer system in this country. The public option as it stands now will NEVER become the only surviving insurance plan...simply because it will NOT be available to everyone. If you make $250,000 per year and don't get insurance through your job, you CAN'T choose the public option.

Incidentally, though, this point is where the plan can be attacked from the ideological left. Sen. Ron Wyden will debut an interesting amendment once the Senate bill comes to the floor; it will call for an expansion of the public option AND Exchanges to ALL Americans. In terms of economics, this makes perfect sense. It will encourage competition everywhere and at all price points. And yes, the public option (if still Medicare + 5%) would probably come to dominate the market. Some people believe this would be a good thing.

Sen. Rockefeller wants a simple expansion of Medicare to all. That would be a single payer system in line with what Canada has. Even so, it wouldn't outlaw private insurers. Just like Medicare only covers a certain proportion of costs, so too would Medicare-for-all. Just like Medicare, consumers would be free to use Medicare Advantage to buy supplemental and partially subsidized plans from private insurers. Still, this is neither here nor there because at this time, such a plan is politically infeasible.

And finally, if you've made it to the end of this post, let me leave you with a quote:

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

-Ronald Reagan, 1961

Eloquent to say the least, was he talking about the Cold War? Nope, that quote was in reference to the establishment of Medicare in the US.

Don't be swayed by partisan drivel. Medicare has the highest-rated customer satisfaction of any insurance plan in the US, and it has by far the lowest overhead. The public option won't be quite the same, but I guarantee it won't be as bad as Ronald Reagan circa 1961 would have you think.

Thanks for reading (or skimming).
 
Don't be swayed by partisan drivel. Medicare has the highest-rated customer satisfaction of any insurance plan in the US, and it has by far the lowest overhead. The public option won't be quite the same, but I guarantee it won't be as bad as Ronald Reagan circa 1961 would have you think.

Speaking of partisan drivel. This is completely incorrect. Look up satisfaction among the federal employees insurance plan. Also, lowest overhead? How is it then we are going to squeeze out hundreds of billions more in overhead and waste? See, this is a prime example of "lowering costs" by the government. We are taking the only "working" (its not really working all that well) example of a "public option" and seeing how the government keeps cost down, now we are cutting billions from it to pay for another new brain child. Thats not a stellar track record. The problem with federal government administration of something is you have no recourse. If "they" decide to cut it, change it, expand it you have no choice in the matter. But I'm sure I'll be labeled a crazy conspiracy theorist or something here.

Now, the public option is still AN OPTION. So, if this situation develops, nothing prohibits people from canceling or not renewing their policies (or simply not choosing it in the first place).

Lets talk about "options". I'm glad you posted that quote from Reagan because as it stand now we will have a federal mandate that every person purchase insurance whether you think you can afford it or not, if you want it or not. Sure, like Obama keeps saying, the mandate doesn't force you to purchase insurance....thats right, it just fines you $750 if you don’t. 57% of Americans 18-29 years of age oppose that idea(source). Plus I would like to see in writing that you can cancel if you like because in the HR bill you couldn’t cancel once enrolled.
 
hmm public option......

Basically government run insurance that would compete with the private insurance companies. It would be one more option one can buy through health care exchanges--like one more item on the menu.

Affordability? Probably. The public option doesn't have to market or answer to stakeholders. That drives down costs. A lot of private insurance companies spend a great amount of money on marketing. Compare medicare advantage plans (run by private insurance companies) with medicare. Big difference in spending.

Benchmark? Who knows. People argue it will serve as a standard and compete with private companies on price, service, and quality, demonstrating what transparency means in practice. Idealistic. But it sounds good in theory.

Availability? As I know it, there is no consensus who will have access to the option. Possibly only a sector of population?

Socialism? Naysayers insist that public option will lead to a single payer system as they "crowd out" the private insurance companies, which will find it difficult to compete with a government entity. Can you guys think of other systems in America where the public and private sectors can coexist? There are many. But think back to CHIP. When it came out, people began dropping their private insurance plans and began enrolling in that government-run plan. So might people actually prefer public plans?
 
Affordability? Probably. The public option doesn't have to market or answer to stakeholders. That drives down costs. A lot of private insurance companies spend a great amount of money on marketing. Compare medicare advantage plans (run by private insurance companies) with medicare. Big difference in spending.

But think back to CHIP. When it came out, people began dropping their private insurance plans and began enrolling in that government-run plan. So might people actually prefer public plans?

In the interest of honest debate, we shouldn't only use the example of the terribly mismanaged Medicare Advantage for the private example. Once again, look at the federal employees insurance package (all of which is offered by private plans). On a side note, profit for many companies is what drives innovation and research as well, so we should be careful about vilifying profits everywhere.

As to your second point your absolutely right. We have two modern day examples of "public options" and how they failed because people preferred them. Look up Keiki Care, as a note it was only for children and still failed. Also, look up TennCare, Tennessee's "public option" which has also failed.

We should look to these examples and learn from them. If we really want a public option and care about compromise (you know so that it actually works in the United States) why dont we do something like HSA's? Employers could donate to an employees HSA, for a public option even the government could donate to someone's HSA. Then the patient would have more control over their own healthcare and doctors could go back towards that fee for service idea so many like. This would also help us have better educated and empowered patients. Better all around. Sure there are issues to work out, but thats a "public option" I could support.
 
In the interest of honest debate, we shouldn't only use the example of the terribly mismanaged Medicare Advantage for the private example. Once again, look at the federal employees insurance package (all of which is offered by private plans). On a side note, profit for many companies is what drives innovation and research as well, so we should be careful about vilifying profits everywhere.

As to your second point your absolutely right. We have two modern day examples of "public options" and how they failed because people preferred them. Look up Keiki Care, as a note it was only for children and still failed. Also, look up TennCare, Tennessee's "public option" which has also failed.

We should look to these examples and learn from them. If we really want a public option and care about compromise (you know so that it actually works in the United States) why dont we do something like HSA's? Employers could donate to an employees HSA, for a public option even the government could donate to someone's HSA. Then the patient would have more control over their own healthcare and doctors could go back towards that fee for service idea so many like. This would also help us have better educated and empowered patients. Better all around. Sure there are issues to work out, but thats a "public option" I could support.

I agree, we oughtn't only consider the Medicare Advantage program, but that example is certainly instructive, nonetheless. Similarly, we oughtn't only consider "public option"-type plans that weren't effective or were downright failures.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of fee-for-service, but whatever. I certainly don't have a better option, so I'm not about to put one forward. But I will say that HSA's don't seem like a great idea, especially considering they favor the healthy and moderately well-off, while the sick and poor aren't benefited at all. Additionally, HSA's are subject to market risk, which, in recent years, doesn't seem like a very attractive option.
 
Personally, I'm not a big fan of fee-for-service, but whatever. I certainly don't have a better option, so I'm not about to put one forward. But I will say that HSA's don't seem like a great idea, especially considering they favor the healthy and moderately well-off, while the sick and poor aren't benefited at all. Additionally, HSA's are subject to market risk, which, in recent years, doesn't seem like a very attractive option.

I haven't seen anything to suggest they favor the healthy and moderately well off, especially if employers and (drum roll please) the government are contributing. The sick and poor would benefit the same as everyone else (after all isn't that only fair?). Also, you can protect HSA's in various ways to help avoid that. Just saying, there are some other available options out there no one wants to look at.
 
Strong ignorance


OP: Sassilysweet explained it well.

yeah, sorry the support for your claims really changed my perspective on the issue. Gotta go change my political affiliation due to bullet proof response, brb.
 
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