Can someone explain the basics of Match?

[futuredoc0307]

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I am trying to understand the process of matching from the osteopathic point of view but can't find info online that explains my questions. On the document released by the school that I will most likely attend, there are data for AOA and NRMP, and I have no idea what those mean and so i can't read the document.

is one of them associated with allopathic residency?

 

[workaholic181]

I am trying to understand the process of matching from the osteopathic point of view but can't find info online that explains my questions. On the document released by the school that I will most likely attend, there are data for AOA and NRMP, and I have no idea what those mean and so i can't read the document.

is one of them associated with allopathic residency?

AOA = American Osteopathic Association. This is the "DO Match."

NRMP is the "MD Match."

The merger is gonna make one matching service in 2020.

 

[futuredoc0307]

AOA = American Osteopathic Association. This is the "DO Match."

NRMP is the "MD Match."

The merger is gonna make one matching service in 2020.

since matching is merging, what does this mean in terms of board examinations? will everyone be required to take the same exam?

 

[workaholic181]

since matching is merging, what does this mean in terms of board examinations? will everyone be required to take the same exam?

The boards are required for licensing. So DOs will still be required to take the COMLEX just to be licensed as physicians, and MDs will need to do the same to be licensed through USMLE. There is debate that someday COMLEX will go away but that will be years and years down the line if ever.

General consensus is that as a DO student, you will have more opportunities for residencies if you feel you can take both COMLEX and USMLE. In theory, all residency programs will have to accept both, but having a good USMLE score as a DO will open doors.

 

[futuredoc0307]

The boards are required for licensing. So DOs will still be required to take the COMLEX just to be licensed as physicians, and MDs will need to do the same to be licensed through USMLE. There is debate that someday COMLEX will go away but that will be years and years down the line if ever.

General consensus is that as a DO student, you will have more opportunities for residencies if you feel you can take both COMLEX and USMLE. In theory, all residency programs will have to accept both, but having a good USMLE score as a DO will open doors.

but since both MDs and DOs will be in the same pool for matching, doesn't that mean it only becomes more harder for DOs to match in general whether they take the USMLE or not?

 

[workaholic181]

but since both MDs and DOs will be in the same pool for matching, doesn't that mean it only becomes more harder for DOs to match in general whether they take the USMLE or not?

There are a ton of threads on this here on SDN and on meddit that are worth looking up. No one knows the extent of how the merger may negatively affect DO students. As it stands right now, only DO students can apply for AOA residencies. Once the merger happens MDs can go for these spots too. It's definitely possible that for competitive things like AOA ortho, a lot of MDs will want those spots and apply for them. So yes, in certain specialties, DOs will have more competition.

Again, mainly speculative here, but I think for "DO friendly" residencies, the merger will be a positive thing. So lets say a DO student applies for Family Medicine right now, pre merger. They either have to apply to the AOA match, which happens first, or wait until AOA match has happened to apply through NRMP. Basically, DO students either have to commit to an AOA residency, or take the chance of entering the NRMP and competing with MDs, which is a bit more risky. The merger will change that by making one application. Now, DO students who want to try for a former NRMP residency can apply for it without giving up the chance to still match to a former AOA program. Hope that makes sense.

So in summary, if more competitive residencies it's likely gonna be more competitive for DOs, but for everything else it will make the match less of a gamble for DO students who want former NRMP residency programs. I'm not a DO student either, and I genuinely believe that from what I've read. Again, no one knows for sure, but if you're going to a DO school, you should 1) feel comfortable that you will probably match into something unless you do terribly in med school and 2) it will be harder to match into a competitive specialty than from an MD school.

 

[gensurghopeful]

Even with the merger, I don't see much changing. Yes, it makes sense for it to be under a single umbrella, but the fact of the matter is, DO PD's will prefer DO students, and MD PD's will probably prefer MD students. The fact that anyone can apply anywhere, gives you more outside chances at various residencies, but for the most part I'm not seeing anything big as a result of the merger.

 

[workaholic181]

Even with the merger, I don't see much changing. Yes, it makes sense for it to be under a single umbrella, but the fact of the matter is, DO PD's will prefer DO students, and MD PD's will probably prefer MD students. The fact that anyone can apply anywhere, gives you more outside chances at various residencies, but for the most part I'm not seeing anything big as a result of the merger.

I disagree. Some former AOA residencies have already transitioned to NRMP and are taking MD and DOs. I don’t have that data at hand but you can find it in last years match data. The people acting like the sky is falling and that DOs will be pushed out of all competitive fields are definitely wrong, but MD students will apply for former AOA residencies in competitive specialties, and we are already seeing the former AOA who have transitioned being willing to have a significant percentage of their class be compromised of MDs.

 

[GatsbyK]

I have heard rumors from former AOA members that those programs who have "Osteopathic Recognition" might try to "balance" it in terms of competition by requiring both COMLEX and USMLE from all its applicants, since DO's usually have to take both tests for former allopathic matches. Not sure how true this will be, but its something they've thought about from what I've heard.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I have heard rumors from former AOA members that those programs who have "Osteopathic Recognition" might try to "balance" it in terms of competition by requiring both COMLEX and USMLE from all its applicants, since DO's usually have to take both tests for former allopathic matches. Not sure how true this will be, but its something they've thought about from what I've heard.

Not sure how many programs will carry on with the "Osteopathic Recognition" or what that really entails. Right now FRIEDA lumps together "Osteopathic Recognition and/or is accredited by the ACGME and the AOA" in one category. So, the way I'm reading it, basically every former AOA program that has applied for ACGME accreditation (that being every program that has survived the merger) is marked "yes" in this category?

Edit: You can search for just Osteopathic Recognition here, if anyone is curious: ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS). Lots of FM, some IM, but the specialties drop off precipitously.

 

[GatsbyK]

Not sure how many programs will carry on with the "Osteopathic Recognition" or what that really entails. Right now FRIEDA lumps together "Osteopathic Recognition and/or is accredited by the ACGME and the AOA" in one category. So, the way I'm reading it, basically every former AOA program that has applied for ACGME accreditation (that being every program that has survived the merger) is marked "yes" in this category?

Edit: You can search for just Osteopathic Recognition here, if anyone is curious: ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS). Lots of FM, some IM, but the specialties drop off precipitously.

Yea... not sure how this will shape out to be... I'm not sure if former AOA automatically get the recognition. Based on other threads, I know some former AOA are just strictly going to ACGME and dropping the "recognition" altogether. I've also heard rumors of those former AOA PDs that want to protect DO's by forcing MD applicants to have to do both tests to apply... I guess we shall see in the next few years which programs will get the accreditation and which ones will choose to get the recognition.

 

[ciestar]

Yea... not sure how this will shape out to be... I'm not sure if former AOA automatically get the recognition. Based on other threads, I know some former AOA are just strictly going to ACGME and dropping the "recognition" altogether. I've also heard rumors of those former AOA PDs that want to protect DO's by forcing MD applicants to have to do both tests to apply... I guess we shall see in the next few years which programs will get the accreditation and which ones will choose to get the recognition.

I saw on a thread not too long ago that I believe a program at Campbell is requiring any MD applicant to have a >250 step 1 and 2 score to even be considered. So, that seems to be another way former AOA programs are protecting DO applicants.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have heard rumors from former AOA members that those programs who have "Osteopathic Recognition" might try to "balance" it in terms of competition by requiring both COMLEX and USMLE from all its applicants, since DO's usually have to take both tests for former allopathic matches. Not sure how true this will be, but its something they've thought about from what I've heard.

No they won’t have to do COMLX but they will have to have OMM training, 60 hours I believe. For our programs MDs have to complete 60 hours of OMM training, from our own OMM department, and the kicker is that this has to be completed to even apply.

No MD is going to do that simply to be able to apply to a small AOA program that likely won’t really consider them anyway.

 

[GatsbyK]

No they won’t have to do COMLX but they will have to have OMM training, 60 hours I believe. For our programs MDs have to complete 60 hours of OMM training, from our own OMM department, and the kicker is that this has to be completed to even apply.

No MD is going to do that simply to be able to apply to a small AOA program that likely won’t really consider them anyway.

Yea, I'm only repeating what was told to me by some of the faculty at my school who are active with AOA board members. I've heard there are lots of different things being thrown around such as what I've said and similarly the same situation you've just mentioned as well. It is still too early to tell what the different programs will do with one match system.

I ultimately think this is what it will be like during the early stages of the merger until they receive more data. I think it needs to transition to be 1 test for the system with some kind of OMM supplemental test for the "osteopathic recognized" programs in the future. One test will allow ALL PDs to atleast gauge numbers equally at a bare minimum, from there look for the OMM, extracurriculars, research, etc.

 

[psammoma1.1]

Any idea how the merging will affect IMGs?

 

[Ragtime]

I disagree. Some former AOA residencies have already transitioned to NRMP and are taking MD and DOs. I don’t have that data at hand but you can find it in last years match data. The people acting like the sky is falling and that DOs will be pushed out of all competitive fields are definitely wrong, but MD students will apply for former AOA residencies in competitive specialties, and we are already seeing the former AOA who have transitioned being willing to have a significant percentage of their class be compromised of MDs.

This is exactly the case at the hospital I currently scribe for--at least for the emergency medicine residency program. The program was formerly AOA and the entire roster comprised of DOs. In speaking with the vice chair of the emergency medicine program at our site, 2/3 of the 2018 roster are now MDs since the transition to NRMP this year. That means that there are already significantly less DOs matching into the program and it's only the first year of the transition. Can't imagine what the ratio is going to be like in the next few years, though it's clear that the transition has already affected DOs negatively--at least at our site.

 

[futuredoc0307]

This is exactly the case at the hospital I currently scribe for--at least for the emergency medicine residency program. The program was formerly AOA and the entire roster comprised of DOs. In speaking with the vice chair of the emergency medicine program at our site, 2/3 of the 2018 roster are now MDs since the transition to NRMP this year. That means that there are already significantly less DOs matching into the program and it's only the first year of the transition. Can't imagine what the ratio is going to be like in the next few years, though it's clear that the transition has already affected DOs negatively--at least at our site.

That’s worrisome

 

[gensurghopeful]

Any idea how the merging will affect IMGs?

Lol who cares