can someone help me decide...

[amalgamgrillz]

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i mean i'm not saying i'll go to a porsche school, i might end up at a honda school😱 but IF I DO, i would definitely play my role and give props to the BETTER APPLICANTS who got into porsche schools. i wouldn't front like oh whatever i'm still just as smart as ya'll the admissions committee was hating on me. if i do end up at a porsche school, i'm not gonna rub it the honda school student's face like oh yeah you go to vcu what is that? i would treat them as equals but of course deep inside i'll be thinking, i'm just flat out better than you homeyyyyy. and why shouldn't i think like that? i was smarter than them, i worked harder than them, and i would deserve it.

This is exactly my point..many of the "best" applicants don't want to go to Harvard and do two years of med school + research..they'd rather go to a 4 year clinical school and be damn good at what they'll actually be doing on a regular basis.

Michael Jordan didnt perfect his jumpshot by reading about how the muscles in the arms worked..he was on the court perfecting the shot 24-7 - and yes, you can relate sports to dentistry. Routine practice makes you better (not reading).

 

[armorshell]

You quoted me a bit late. But I'd like to see Dale Earnhardt Jr drive a Prius on the track.

Well if you compare the absolute worst to the best, the analogy breaks down. But I'm sure there's hundreds of instances where a driver has taken what was by all rights a mechanically inferior car (compared to the best) and still managed to outcompete them.

I distinctly remember a story about Mushashi winning a dual (and killing his opponent) with a boat oar when the other guy had a sword.

 

[armorshell]

This is exactly my point..many of the "best" applicants don't want to go to Harvard and do two years of med school + research..they'd rather go to a 4 year clinical school and be damn good at what they'll actually be doing on a regular basis.

Michael Jordan didnt perfect his jumpshot by reading about how the muscles in the arms worked..he was on the court perfecting the shot 24-7 - and yes, you can relate sports to dentistry. Routine practice makes you better (not reading).

This is a good point. The analogy breaks down because there's no best school for everything. While one could argue that there is a subset of schools which are very well rounded, or schools that are far and above better at certain elements than others, I don't believe there is a school that stands out as a "must attend" if accepted.

 

[Pat Kelly]

This is exactly my point..many of the "best" applicants don't want to go to Harvard and do two years of med school + research..they'd rather go to a 4 year clinical school and be damn good at what they'll actually be doing on a regular basis.

Michael Jordan didnt perfect his jumpshot by reading about how the muscles in the arms worked..he was on the court perfecting the shot 24-7 - and yes, you can relate sports to dentistry. Routine practice makes you better (not reading).

How do you think he gets those jump shots off in games? He has to study opponent's tapes too for hours and hours just so he know what the defense tendencies are. Routine practice gets you nowhere if you don't know how to use it effectively.

 

[lemoncurry]

i love how my car analogy is catching on


truth.
this irks me. not all dentists are equal and this applies to not just dentists but schools, cars, students, and pretty much anything in life. a havard bio major and university of north dakota bio major will both graduate and obtain the same bs in biology, but are they the same? no the harvard kid will be better.

that's total BS and you know it. It's like saying that the smartest students HAVE to go to Harvard or some other ivy league and NO OTHER or they are just poseurs.

you can make a million scenarios on how harvard kid was a legacy, affirmative action or the university of north dakota kid had an iq of 200, didn't focus in high school and wanted to save money going in state. if you had to bet your own money on who is smarter, you would pick the harvard kid 100 out of 100 times.

I would be willing to stake my reputation that I, with my lowly CSU biology degree, would be smarter than your average harvard biology grad.

for those dental students who went to honda dental schools and claim they are equals...don't they have any shame?

for what? for choosing to go to a school they wanted to go to instead of one that rides on reputation? Believe it or not, many top applicants don't WANT to go to Harvard because they actually want to be good clinicians, or they don't want to pay the money, or they don't want to live in New England.

shouldn't they feel grateful that they are receiving the same dds that other students at porsche schools get? considering there is a significant discrepancy in the admissions requirements for honda dental schools vs. porsche dental schools?

So, as a honda driver, I should be grateful because Porsche has this amazing technological advances without which Honda wouldn't exist? BS again. Honda technology and Porsche technology are very different, and they truly use two approaches to get the same results. Ever heard of the Acura NSX? V6 engine, ran with the big boys. The only thing that's trickling downhill is the BS that you're spewing. And the "significant discrepancy" exists between "porsche" schools and "hyundai" schools.

VCU, UNMC, UCLA are just a few state schools that are excellent and could easily provide a better clinical experience than Harvard. It is a fact, btw, that UNMC has one of if not the highest average GPA of its first year enrollees. Not bad for a Honda!

i mean i'm not saying i'll go to a porsche school, i might end up at a honda school😱 but IF I DO, i would definitely play my role and give props to the BETTER APPLICANTS who got into porsche schools.

So, by your logic, since you are a self-proclaimed genius, if you didn't get into Harvard and got into a lowly state school, it would prove that you're not as smart as you think you are? I think you need a high colonic because you're full of BS. Are we really expected to believe that you're going to bow down to other students simply because they got into Harvard? Anyone who has read your posts won't believe that YOU actually would do that.

i wouldn't front like oh whatever i'm still just as smart as ya'll the admissions committee was hating on me.

oh hell yes you would.

if i do end up at a porsche school, i'm not gonna rub it the honda school student's face like oh yeah you go to vcu what is that? i would treat them as equals but of course deep inside i'll be thinking, i'm just flat out better than you homeyyyyy. and why shouldn't i think like that? i was smarter than them, i worked harder than them, and i would deserve it.

You're clearly not better than us because only ignorant people truly think they are "better" than other people.


I know, I know, I shouldn't feed the trolls.

 

[AndyK]

Porsches have engines in the back.

that's just dumb

 

[Shunwei]

lol, those with the highest averages are usually ones that are more researched focused as they want students that are smart enough to publish papers - that says nothing about their clinical skills. And let's face it, do we really care if our dentists have superior knowledge about rare cases that they'll likely never encounter? I'm sure I speak for alot of people when I say that i'd rather have a dentist that can just get rid of my toothache.

In your terms, a dodge viper can have all its flashy credentials, slick paint job and can go 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, but really, if it simply cant get me from my house to the grocery store, then its just plain crap.

Yep, I agree with this assessment. The so-called "top dental schools" as designated by who-or-whatever his name is (man, I'd be careful if I were you--is that your real picture below your moniker?) is more research based, although as someone coming from that background I'd say publishing papers has very little to do with intelligence in modern Science. It's more like how much you can put up with a sweatshop mentality and being used as slave labor, pure and simple.

If you look at the schools with the higher statistic entry criteria (let's use Columbia and Harvard here as examples, as I am sure that who-what's his name would cite as "top schools"), you will see that most of them are big, established universities with a long history and already a lot of name recognition. My personal theory for why these schools have higher stats is a simple matter of "face." Because of their name, they cannot or do not want to compromise it by having a lower-than-elite standards. You don't think that the president of Big H would have cardiac arrest if he finds out that HSDM is having entry standards on par with (*gasp*) Howard? It would just rub their elitist mentality in the most horrible way.

My personal research over the past two years have been that clinically speaking, where you graduate from really has no bearing whatsoever on your future clinical competency. If anything, it seems like there is a lot of sentiment going around that research-based schools are weaker in that department (but this is not something that I want to bring up here). The point is, if I were who-what's his name, I'd spare the use of the term "top dental schools" around here. That is extremely subjective and bound to one's own interpretation.

 

[whoispittsnogle]

that's total BS and you know it. It's like saying that the smartest students HAVE to go to Harvard or some other ivy league and NO OTHER or they are just poseurs.I would be willing to stake my reputation that I, with my lowly CSU biology degree, would be smarter than your average harvard biology grad.

i already addressed this bs explanation. nothing in this world is absolute. of course there COULD be a genius like you who went to csu and there might be an idiot who went to harvard. but is it likely? HELL NO. it doesn't matter how confident you are about your ability, it's about what others think. you think people will think oh lemoncurry he is so smart but he just wanted to save money and wanted to live at home so he went to csu. no. they'll more likely think oh he must've partied a little too hard in high school, didn't get good grades, or was a "bad test taker" and went to csu. 100 out of 100 people would bet their money on the harvard grad being smarter than the csu grad. if you disagree, that's total bs and you know it.

i'm secure enough with myself to accept my failures and shortcomings and move forward. i may make excuses for myself and tell myself oh i could've done much better i just didn't try. but i would not say those poor excuses out loud and look even more pathetic in others' eyes. and i certainly would not try to discredit what more successful applicants have accomplished by saying oh yeah my honda dental school is just as good even though i know damn well it's not.👎

 

[armorshell]

i'm secure enough with myself to accept my failures and shortcomings and move forward. i may make excuses for myself and tell myself oh i could've done much better i just didn't try. but i would not say those poor excuses out loud and look even more pathetic in others' eyes. and i certainly would not try to discredit what more successful applicants have accomplished by saying oh yeah my honda dental school is just as good even though i know damn well it's not.👎

I actually like the porsche vs. honda comparison. It really illustrates how different people value different things. Porsches are horrendously expensive, have terrible gas mileage, are considered very cool, have high performance in certain areas/types of racing, require tons of maintanence and if they were your only car would severely limit the things you can do with it. Good luck camping, hauling groceries or hanging out with more than 1 other friend in a porsche. Need to move a fridge? Good luck with that. In some arenas or racing even (drag racing, rally) a porsche would be all but worthless.

In my eyes, a porsche is a terrible car. I will never own a porsche, and don't want to. If I won a porsche in a contest, I would sell it.

Does this make me objectively wrong?

The point is, no one here is saying VCU is better than Harvard. They're not. There isn't even a way to say that. What they're trying to tell you is VCU meets their educational goals in ways Harvard never could, because Harvard is not the best dental school for everything, and you can ask any Harvard student that and I'm sure they would agree (as should every dental student, at every school).

 

[amalgamgrillz]

How do you think he gets those jump shots off in games? He has to study opponent's tapes too for hours and hours just so he know what the defense tendencies are. Routine practice gets you nowhere if you don't know how to use it effectively.

That's a very linear way of thinking..what happens when the situation strays from the "tendancy"?

I think everyone would agree with me when I say that every situation he encountered was different. Michael Jordan likely doesnt look to see who's guarding him -You can't tell me that he memorized every single opponent's game in the NBA..he he just schools whoever tried to guard him..no matter which player it is. Plus, do you actually value studying tapes more than actually practicing the shot? You'd be the most useless player if you knew what to do "hypothetically," but you're screwed once you're in the situation because you can't make the shot..because you didnt practice lol.

Similar to dentistry, it's all case-by-case..you can read all you want about how to fill a cavity, but if you get a slightly different case than the one you read about in your textbook, i'd say you're pretty effed lol. I'd lovvvvve to be a specialist in your area..i'd get never ending referrals!

 

[armorshell]

Both theory, evidence based research and practice are all important in dentistry. I think many of you pre-dents have some serious misconceptions about what goes on at dental schools. "Clinical" dental schools study theory and current research as well as so-called research schools. I have the feeling you believe Harvard students sit around all day debating over papers as opposed to working in the clinics, which is also hardly the truth.

All dental schools are clinical schools, and all dental schools are so called "research" schools, it's just slightly different blends of each combined with different educational environments.

If you honestly think the average graduate from Harvard doesn't know which end of the handpiece they're supposed to use (figuratively of course), you need to get a reality check.

Additionally, the way you handle variations on ideal in clinical practice is usually based on research and theory, not clinical experience. What a prep is "supposed" to look like clinically doesn't matter if you understand the orientation of enamel rods, how they interact with restorative materials and various techniques. Note that all of this is learned AT BOTH CLINICAL AND "RESEARCH" SCHOOLS!!!

That's a very linear way of thinking..what happens when the situation strays from the "tendancy"?

I think everyone would agree with me when I say that every situation he encountered was different. Michael Jordan likely doesnt look to see who's guarding him -You can't tell me that he memorized every single opponent's game in the NBA..he he just schools whoever tried to guard him..no matter which player it is. Plus, do you actually value studying tapes more than actually practicing the shot? You'd be the most useless player if you knew what to do "hypothetically," but you're screwed once you're in the situation because you can't make the shot..because you didnt practice lol.

Similar to dentistry, it's all case-by-case..you can read all you want about how to fill a cavity, but if you get a slightly different case than the one you read about in your textbook, i'd say you're pretty effed lol. I'd lovvvvve to be a specialist in your area..i'd get never ending referrals!

 

[dentstd]

Porsches have engines in the back.

that's just dumb

It provides much more torque and better handling. You've never driven a porsche, I take it. Try out a 911, and you'll never go back.

 

[dentstd]

that's total BS and you know it. It's like saying that the smartest students HAVE to go to Harvard or some other ivy league and NO OTHER or they are just poseurs.I would be willing to stake my reputation that I, with my lowly CSU biology degree, would be smarter than your average harvard biology grad.

for what? for choosing to go to a school they wanted to go to instead of one that rides on reputation? Believe it or not, many top applicants don't WANT to go to Harvard because they actually want to be good clinicians, or they don't want to pay the money, or they don't want to live in New England. So, as a honda driver, I should be grateful because Porsche has this amazing technological advances without which Honda wouldn't exist? BS again. Honda technology and Porsche technology are very different, and they truly use two approaches to get the same results. Ever heard of the Acura NSX? V6 engine, ran with the big boys. The only thing that's trickling downhill is the BS that you're spewing. And the "significant discrepancy" exists between "porsche" schools and "hyundai" schools.

VCU, UNMC, UCLA are just a few state schools that are excellent and could easily provide a better clinical experience than Harvard. It is a fact, btw, that UNMC has one of if not the highest average GPA of its first year enrollees. Not bad for a Honda!So, by your logic, since you are a self-proclaimed genius, if you didn't get into Harvard and got into a lowly state school, it would prove that you're not as smart as you think you are? I think you need a high colonic because you're full of BS. Are we really expected to believe that you're going to bow down to other students simply because they got into Harvard? Anyone who has read your posts won't believe that YOU actually would do that. oh hell yes you would. You're clearly not better than us because only ignorant people truly think they are "better" than other people.


I know, I know, I shouldn't feed the trolls.

It's not the school. It's the abilities of those students at the school. It's a form of peer assessment.

 

[AndyK]

It provides much more torque and better handling. You've never driven a porsche, I take it. Try out a 911, and you'll never go back.

I'd love to drive a 911... I was just kidding about the engine thing, but I think a mid-engine is the ideal for a great sports car.

I have, however seen a 911 driving down the road with an enormous plume of smoke coming out of where the trunk should be.

 

[amalgamgrillz]

Both theory, evidence based research and practice are all important in dentistry. I think many of you pre-dents have some serious misconceptions about what goes on at dental schools. "Clinical" dental schools study theory and current research as well as so-called research schools. I have the feeling you believe Harvard students sit around all day debating over papers as opposed to working in the clinics, which is also hardly the truth.

All dental schools are clinical schools, and all dental schools are so called "research" schools, it's just slightly different blends of each combined with different educational environments.

If you honestly think the average graduate from Harvard doesn't know which end of the handpiece they're supposed to use (figuratively of course), you need to get a reality check.

Additionally, the way you handle variations on ideal in clinical practice is usually based on research and theory, not clinical experience. What a prep is "supposed" to look like clinically doesn't matter if you understand the orientation of enamel rods, how they interact with restorative materials and various techniques. Note that all of this is learned AT BOTH CLINICAL AND "RESEARCH" SCHOOLS!!!

lol no, I understand that Harvard students do not just read all day, obviously. A lot of my comments are sarcastic responses to pittsnogle's exaggerated comments. As important as research is, I personally value the extra two years of clinical that other schools get. Yes alot of the variations of procedures are learned from research and theory, but a good chunk of things comes from practice/experience, no?

For example, we had a working interview with a recent graduate from UPenn i think..some high end american school that was "research" focused..anyways he was a VERY smart guy, really intelligent..but it took him 12 minutes to put on the rubber dam...also, he didnt tie floss around the clamp..and his temp was crooked..and he didnt check the chart for latex allergies before putting his gloves on.. maybe it was nerves, i dont know..minor things like that should be second nature by now, i figure the 2 more years of extra practice would have done him some good.

 

[dentstd]

I actually like the porsche vs. honda comparison. It really illustrates how different people value different things. Porsches are horrendously expensive, have terrible gas mileage, are considered very cool, have high performance in certain areas/types of racing, require tons of maintanence and if they were your only car would severely limit the things you can do with it. Good luck camping, hauling groceries or hanging out with more than 1 other friend in a porsche. Need to move a fridge? Good luck with that. In some arenas or racing even (drag racing, rally) a porsche would be all but worthless.

In my eyes, a porsche is a terrible car. I will never own a porsche, and don't want to. If I won a porsche in a contest, I would sell it.

You should try the Cayenne S. Oh man...

 

[dentstd]

This type of thread is always full of students who barely got into Hyundai and Kia dental school thinking they're as good as BMW and Audi dental students. The vast majority of students at BMW and Audi were in high demand when applying and also got into Hyundai, Kia, and Ford. The Hyundai's will brag about their 10year/100k mile warranty. It's a pitiful scenario of those at BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda looking at Hyundai...and just smiling, not wanting to hurt its feelings. In the end, BMW will always win out over Hyundai.

 

[armorshell]

This type of thread is always full of students who barely got into Hyundai and Kia dental school thinking they're as good as BMW and Audi dental students. The vast majority of students at BMW and Audi were in high demand when applying and also got into Hyundai, Kia, and Ford. The Hyundai's will brag about their 10year/100k mile warranty. It's a pitiful scenario of those at BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda looking at Hyundai...and just smiling, not wanting to hurt its feelings. In the end, BMW will always win out over Hyundai.

Just read what I posted above, again. There's no such thing as an ideal dental school for everyone. I'm sure there are some dental schools that are characteristically not people's first choices, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're of worse quality, or provide an inferior education. NYU for example is a "backup" school, but has ridiculous facilities, huge patient pool and from what I understand, provides stellar education both clinically and didactically. It's just crazy expensive.

 

[armorshell]

Additionally, if there's any school out there that's a Porsche, it's UoP, because it's get you where you're going faster ahahhahahaha.

 

[rose786]

Additionally, if there's any school out there that's a Porsche, it's UoP, because it's get you where you're going faster ahahhahahaha.

ha. You find that humerus?

 

[dentstd]

ha. You find that humerus?

Is that an anatomy joke?

 

[dentstd]

Just read what I posted above, again. There's no such thing as an ideal dental school for everyone. I'm sure there are some dental schools that are characteristically not people's first choices, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're of worse quality, or provide an inferior education. NYU for example is a "backup" school, but has ridiculous facilities, huge patient pool and from what I understand, provides stellar education both clinically and didactically. It's just crazy expensive.

Ah, my friend, you must read carefully. BMW dental students tend to be better than Kia dental students, not BMW dental school's better than Kia dental school. The Taurus and Jag are both made in Ford's factories, but the Jag's clear winner.

 

[rose786]

Is that an anatomy joke?

I thought it was punny.

 

[armorshell]

Ah, my friend, you must read carefully. BMW dental students tend to be better than Kia dental students, not BMW dental school's better than Kia dental school. The Taurus and Jag are both made in Ford's factories, but the Jag's clear winner.

Then we have an accord (CAR JOKE INTENDED AHAHAHAH)

 

[Wordead]

that's total BS and you know it. It's like saying that the smartest students HAVE to go to Harvard or some other ivy league and NO OTHER or they are just poseurs.I would be willing to stake my reputation that I, with my lowly CSU biology degree, would be smarter than your average harvard biology grad.

I cannot believe anyone would make such a claim. Wow.

 

[Pat Kelly]

That's a very linear way of thinking..what happens when the situation strays from the "tendancy"?

I think everyone would agree with me when I say that every situation he encountered was different. Michael Jordan likely doesnt look to see who's guarding him -You can't tell me that he memorized every single opponent's game in the NBA..he he just schools whoever tried to guard him..no matter which player it is. Plus, do you actually value studying tapes more than actually practicing the shot? You'd be the most useless player if you knew what to do "hypothetically," but you're screwed once you're in the situation because you can't make the shot..because you didnt practice lol.

Similar to dentistry, it's all case-by-case..you can read all you want about how to fill a cavity, but if you get a slightly different case than the one you read about in your textbook, i'd say you're pretty effed lol. I'd lovvvvve to be a specialist in your area..i'd get never ending referrals!

How exactly does getting more clinical exposure help you deal with cases that aren't the norm? You do different cases over and over again, but you might not even understand why you do them, or you only learn the background on that specific case, instead of more general knowledge that will apply to ALL cases. That's why you go to school to have an EDUCATION, so that you can think by yourself instead of following protocol. How will I be "effed" if I get a different case and I went to a school that's less clinically involved? In fact I think it's the opposite - you will be the one scrambling to try different procedures that you have seen your instructor did in the clinic maybe once or twice, but it's totally not applicable to the situation at hand. At least I will know how to approach it and solve the problem, and with my 2 "inferior" years of clincial training, I will be able to apply correct scientific reasoning behind each of my steps.

If you think that reading cases don't help, then why do dentists have to finish continuing education credits every year? There are tons of studying clubs devoted to reading literature, but not so many classes on reinforcing hand skills. Why do we need to have an undergrad scientific background then? Why don't we just spend that three years looking at more cases and practicing our hand skills? We don't NEED to have those knowledges anyways right? 🙄

I have never said that it's either classroom teaching or clinic practice. By going to a more classroom teaching-based school, you don't totally miss out on clinical practice. Your opinion sounded like you don't need to read a case to be a good clinician, and by just practicing more and more you will be able to overcome the knowledge defecit.. WRONG.

You want to be a specialist in my area and get my referals? good luck. I am sure you will be tops in your class to get into a specialty by just slaving away in the clinic all day long and not read cases.

*offtopic - but I am going to reinforce my stance that I never said that you don't have to "practice" your jump shot. That's what people do when they do their 2 years of clincial training. You think Jordan doesn't watch tapes and just beat everyone by sheer power? Then why will the americans have any trouble this year in winning the basketball gold? They have the best players on the planet.. they sure as hell practice more than 5-6 hours a day.. why do they need to have a scouting department? Why does Kobe need to sit beside Coach K and the rest of the coaching staff and watch the game between Greece and Germany? You are absolutely NAIVE if you believe that you can just do clinical training all day long and become a GREAT clinician.

 

[dentstd]

I cannot believe anyone would make such a claim. Wow.

It's hard to tell how he'd outperform a Harvard bio with his CSU bio degree, looking at how difficult a time he had getting into dental school. Multiple cycles, nearing lost hope this past cycle.

 

[rose786]

..

 

[lemoncurry]

I cannot believe anyone would make such a claim. Wow.

It's called not buying into the hype and being confident in your abilities. It comes with age.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Oh come on, how can you believe this? Of course more clinical training is better. Speak to anyone who's graduated dental school and they'll tell you confidence is key to dealing with situations. How can you be confident in yourself as a clinician if you've only just memorized tooth numbers and the steps to the Krebs cycle? It's not simply enough to acquire knowledge, you have to be able to apply it effectively. The best way to learn anything is to do it, not read about doing it.

*off soapbox*

I didn't say anything about how more clinical training isn't better. I only said that if you only did your whole 4 years in the clinic and not learning about why you are doing certain things, you won't be able to apply it effectively, as you said.

 

[armorshell]

Oh come on, how can you believe this? Of course more clinical training is better. Speak to anyone who's graduated dental school and they'll tell you confidence is key to dealing with situations. How can you be confident in yourself as a clinician if you've only just memorized tooth numbers and the steps to the Krebs cycle? It's not simply enough to acquire knowledge, you have to be able to apply it effectively. The best way to learn anything is to do it, not read about doing it.

*off soapbox*

I didn't say anything about how more clinical training isn't better. I only said that if you only did your whole 4 years in the clinic and not learning about why you are doing certain things, you won't be able to apply it effectively, as you said.

Please, both of you, read my post above. You really seem to have no idea how dental schools work.

 

[rose786]

..

 

[armorshell]

So enlighten us. Is it not true that some schools see more patients, and therefore more procedures, than others?

I'm sure it is. Not at the expense of learning the theory and research behind each procedure you do as well. Additionally, you have to factor in the complexity of the cases you're exposed to. Would you rather go to a school where you do 100 straightforward operative surfaces, or 60 with some thought-provoking situations.

My point is, there's no such thing as a cut and dry research or clinical school. You're oversimplifying way too much. Research schools do plenty of clinical work , and clinical schools learn a lot about the theory and evidence basis of dental practice. The focus is manifested in very slight differences.

 

[whoispittsnogle]

It's hard to tell how he'd outperform a Harvard bio with his CSU bio degree, looking at how difficult a time he had getting into dental school. Multiple cycles, nearing lost hope this past cycle.

damn that is cold blooded 😱

 

[dentstd]

damn that is cold blooded 😱

This confidence in your abilities talk shouldn't be an euphemism for bold, wreckless, and unsupported. He may feel like he can anything, but the schools he applied to didn't seem to agree.

 

[Shunwei]

This confidence in your abilities talk shouldn't be an euphemism for bold, wreckless, and unsupported. He may feel like he can anything, but the schools he applied to didn't seem to agree.

Man, am I glad you are not going to UCLA. Hate to be have you as a classmate, frankly.

Obviously you have an ego about getting into multiple schools, but unless I am mistaken you can still go to only one school. Want to make a judgment on Lemoncurry? Wait ten years and then see who is more successful in his career--that's more definitive.

For now I am voting to changing your handle to just the last three letters of the current one.

 

[amalgamgrillz]

I didn't say anything about how more clinical training isn't better. I only said that if you only did your whole 4 years in the clinic and not learning about why you are doing certain things, you won't be able to apply it effectively, as you said.

Ok, I don't know which schools you've been researcing, but..NO school JUST does pure clinical or pure theory, so I really don't know what you're talking about, or why you're calling ME the naive one lol. "Research" based schools DO clinical, but not to the same extent as the other schools where you start clinical in your first year. BOTH types of schools do theory/case studies, so THAT'S why I think the extra 2 years of clinical would be benefitial.

 

[amalgamgrillz]

How exactly does getting more clinical exposure help you deal with cases that aren't the norm?

you see more cases. the more cases you see, the more familiar you are with how to deal with them. ie) root canals, go ahead and read all you want about extra roots, good luck finding them with your hand files.

You do different cases over and over again, but you might not even understand why you do them, or you only learn the background on that specific case, instead of more general knowledge that will apply to ALL cases.

That's why you go to school to have an EDUCATION, so that you can think by yourself instead of following protocol. How will I be "effed" if I get a different case and I went to a school that's less clinically involved? In fact I think it's the opposite - you will be the one scrambling to try different procedures that you have seen your instructor did in the clinic maybe once or twice, but it's totally not applicable to the situation at hand. At least I will know how to approach it and solve the problem, and with my 2 "inferior" years of clincial training, I will be able to apply correct scientific reasoning behind each of my steps.

Believe me, you'll feel alot more confident doing it after you've seen it done/done it yourself..compared to your book knowledge. You WON'T know how to approach and solve the problem if you've never seen the problem before. Do you need to have seen every procedure to be a good dentist? No - but the more you've seen, the more comfortable you'll be. Please don't tell your patients "well, i've read about it before, i know how to do it on paper...ok now sit back and relax"

If you think that reading cases don't help, then why do dentists have to finish continuing education credits every year? There are tons of studying clubs devoted to reading literature, but not so many classes on reinforcing hand skills. Why do we need to have an undergrad scientific background then? Why don't we just spend that three years looking at more cases and practicing our hand skills? We don't NEED to have those knowledges anyways right? 🙄

i never said reading wasn't important or as important as clinical work..if i did, then i retract that statement - RESEARCH isn't as important as clinical work in terms of general practice. When i say research, i don't mean researching how to do a procedure..i mean, writing thesis papers on rare diseases and being in a lab trying to solve unknown things in the dental world.

Then why will the americans have any trouble this year in winning the basketball gold? They have the best players on the planet.. they sure as hell practice more than 5-6 hours a day.. why do they need to have a scouting department? Why does Kobe need to sit beside Coach K and the rest of the coaching staff and watch the game between Greece and Germany? You are absolutely NAIVE if you believe that you can just do clinical training all day long and become a GREAT clinician.

lol yah, unless they have another repeat performance of Athens ... *cough*third place

 

[Wordead]

It's called not buying into the hype and being confident in your abilities. It comes with age.

Since we were talking about being "smarter than the average Harvard biology graduate", I can only assume that you are saying that intelligence increases with age? Right....

Even if you're saying that you are more knowledgeable or experienced, and even if I accept such a specious claim, it is still the very height of arrogance and borderline delusional to claim that you are better than a Harvard graduate. How many Harvard graduates do you even know? I am probably more arrogant than 98% of people in this world, but to suggest that you are more intelligent than people with THE top test scores, grades, and extracurricular achievements in the nation is beyond the pale.

W

 

[Wordead]

Man, am I glad you are not going to UCLA. Hate to be have you as a classmate, frankly.

Obviously you have an ego about getting into multiple schools, but unless I am mistaken you can still go to only one school. Want to make a judgment on Lemoncurry? Wait ten years and then see who is more successful in his career--that's more definitive.

For now I am voting to changing your handle to just the last three letters of the current one.

Why ten years? Perhaps one of them would not have had enough time to spread their wings and soar above the clouds. We should wait until they are both dead to make any judgments about success.

If you are truly that offended by some random snide remarks (that are truthful if nasty), you are going to be in for a rude awakening some day. It's remarkable that people have such thin skins at this age.

P.S.-as dentstd didn't even come close to mentioning his multiple acceptances, to an objective observer it really just looks like you're insecure or jealous. No offense.

W

 

[Shunwei]

Why ten years? Perhaps one of them would not have had enough time to spread their wings and soar above the clouds. We should wait until they are both dead to make any judgments about success.

If you are truly that offended by some random snide remarks (that are truthful if nasty), you are going to be in for a rude awakening some day. It's remarkable that people have such thin skins at this age.

P.S.-as dentstd didn't even come close to mentioning his multiple acceptances, to an objective observer it really just looks like you're insecure or jealous. No offense.

W

Yeah, guess you got me. *ahem* I wish I have accomplished as much in my life as dentstd🙄.

Guess we just have different tolerances on what constitutes a rude post. Personally, it does not matter to me since the post was not directed at me. It just seems so out of line with courtesy, but it might be right up your alley.

 

[rose786]

..

 

[dentstd]

Man, am I glad you are not going to UCLA. Hate to be have you as a classmate, frankly.

Obviously you have an ego about getting into multiple schools, but unless I am mistaken you can still go to only one school. Want to make a judgment on Lemoncurry? Wait ten years and then see who is more successful in his career--that's more definitive.

For now I am voting to changing your handle to just the last three letters of the current one.

Was it harsh? Absolutely. And purposefully so. There's a number of people with Godlike complexes on here, and I prefer to not stop bleeding on a broken limb with a bandaid. Lemon made one of the absolute most farfetched claim possible, and he seems to believe he can fly. I wonder if there actually are people who read that and actually believed him.

Thousands of people with average or lower abilities seem to think they're as good as the best, and we've heard all sorts of arguments to support that sentiment. Now I wonder if these people are just so filled with pride that they no longer hold a sense of reality and good judgment.

 

[tinman831]

Wow the arrogance is just oozing out of this thread. 🙄

Let's just focus on answering the OPs question please.

 

[whoispittsnogle]

Wow the arrogance is just oozing out of this thread. 🙄

Let's just focus on answering the OPs question please.

lol i bet the op came in like wtf is going on here😱

i'd pick arrogance over ignorance any day though. csu grad being smarter than harvard grad. lol i'm never gonna forget reading that. i remember the day, the time, the weather, and the clothes i was wearing when i read that.

 

[Retimo]

Wow, this post really got highjacked. (PS, why does it seem that any post that whoispitts contributes to quickly gets derailed? Honestly, can we all just ignore him (and flag him when due 😀 )). And to renege on my own plea <sigh>: Pitts, congrats on becoming an active member again. 👍 We really missed your instigating and cynicism.

OP, yea, your stats aren't looking great, but there are still TONS of options. Please, take it from a non-traditional student! I'm 26 now, and have been taking a couples years to "figure it out" and boost my stats. You mentioned SMP, and I"m not exactly sure what those are. But I know there are some post-bac/MA hybrid programs. With these, you get a certificate after the 1st year while you can apply to schools. If you get denied from all your schools, you can continue the 2nd year of these programs and earn you MA, thus becoming even more competitive. It's like an advanced post-bac and MA program safety net. Win-win.

I'd recommend doing your SMP, a post-bac with upper-level classes, or even the aforementioned 'hybrid' before retaking any of your lower classes. Yea, true, you want to demonstrate that you understand bio and chem 101 to your adcoms. But you can do that by acing the upper levels. Plus, many adcoms (I hear) will average your two grades if you retake. Thus, even if you ace your low-level classes, it'll still look like a B. Move on; advance to the upper levels.

OR another great option is to gain field experience!! I'd recommend this over retaking classes as well. Get a job in research, or maybe a job as a dental assistant (yea, I said it, and I know it'll be debated here). I currently have an awesome job in clinical medical research. It's given me amazing opportunities, such as publications, free education, resume buffer, interview topics, exposure to every healthcare worker, and tons of insight into lifestyle (hence the life-changing switch to pre-dental 👍). I'm applying this cycle, but even if I don't get in I won't be too upset because I'm enjoying what I'm doing now. Sure, the dog and kids and white picket-fence will have to wait even longer, but it'll come some day.

Advance your education instead of retaking old classes. Or get a relevant job. Or do both. Any of these options will help sort out your motivation doubts too, which is key. There are many more careers in healthcare then we realize, and a masters or work experience will direct you in the right direction. OP, please PM me if you have any questions! I feel like I have enough experience with low grades and uncertainty and whatnot...

 

[Retimo]

OP, check out the immortal sub-3.0-GPA thread... they mention all the options there .. plus give some hope to people like you and me 🙂

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362708&page=8

 

[HarvardBioGrad]

that's total BS and you know it. It's like saying that the smartest students HAVE to go to Harvard or some other ivy league and NO OTHER or they are just poseurs.I would be willing to stake my reputation that I, with my lowly CSU biology degree, would be smarter than your average harvard biology grad.

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Regards,

HBG

 

[armorshell]

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Regards,

HBG

That's just unlucky that your UID is actually "HarvardBioGrad"

 

[dentstd]

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Regards,

HBG

There's no need for laughing. While Lemon claimed that he's smarter than your average Harvard Bio grad, he later admitted he's never met a Harvard Bio grad. Yup, never sat in class with one, never taken the same test, never known what it's like to compete with some of the brightest minds in the country, never even talked to one. I'm sure he sees now how silly his claim was. But I really don't know anything about CSU. I tried to look it up but never really found anything. Wasn't in the Top National School section of US News. Wasn't in the 3rd tier section. Wasn't even in the 4th Tier section.