nuclearrabbit77

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as an incoming M1, i envision myself needing to have gunner-like study habits since i'm contemplating doing a highly competitive residency (ENT), yet i see so much stigma against gunners that i'm afraid that the costs aren't worth the benefits. obviously, it's possible to divorce personality and attitude from study habits,...but from people currently in school,..how frequently do you see a friendly and social "gunner"?
 

MustafaMond

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People hate gunners, cuz they r jealous of them.

Gun away, man! Its ok to be competetive...its just that most gunners lose sight of important things like hangin out, relaxing, and most gunners have serious attitude...

I know a few that are the coolest, smartest people i know....

guess it jus depends on your personality...
 

mikegoal

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it depends on your definition of gunner most people would say that a gunner is not someone that studies harder then everyone else he is someone that is malicious about and asks questions just to ask a question even if he knows the answer someone who gives his classmates the wrong information to help the curve or in clinical years tells everyone in every rotation that that is what he wants to do he is someone that will tattle on a classmate who looks good

but for you study hard the more you know the better doctor you can be if you do it right your not a gunner
 

DuneHog

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Many people don't understand the distinction between being a gunner and doing well as a medical student. They are not the same thing. Students come to be known as gunners because other students don't like working with them because of their competative nature and backstabbing tactics on the wards. You don't have to try and prevent other students from doing well or make them look bad to do well youself. Remember also that residents, who generally grade you, were recently students themselves. They undoubtedly worked with gunners themselves as students. They are generally aware which students don't get along with fellow students, and are likely to grade gunners poorly.

Realize also that your behavior as a medical student will set the tone for your career and your life. If you adopt a competative attitude as a medical student, then you will be an obnoxious resident, and when you get into practice you will gain a repuation as a real a-hole. People who are gunners in medical school end up forever worrying about whether they drive the nicest car, have the poshest practice etc.

Many medical students that do well are not gunners. The key to doing well as a medical student without being a gunner is to succeed by being prepared. Be ready with the right answer when asked. Wow people with you meticulously prepared case presentations. Know your patients well. Don't try to make up for lack of preparedness or your own insecurity by trying to make other medical students look bad.

The people who truly succeed in medicine are the ones who are able to do well academically, AND who are liked by their colleagues.
 

mikegoal

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yes thats exactly what i was trying to say though stated a lot better
 

Mossjoh

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I met another MS1 starting this weekend at Barnes and Noble. I've been talking to her via email for a while. She is an older student, like 30 or so, but she had all these notes already typed for biochem ect. She had like a whole binder full!! And school hasn't even started, I was like...gunner. That kind of annoyed me a bit.
Its not that I haven't studied a little, its just to have pages and pages of typed notes!! WOW!!

Well, at least I know someone.

Mossjoh
 

ckent

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Originally posted by Mossjoh
I met another MS1 starting this weekend at Barnes and Noble. I've been talking to her via email for a while. She is an older student, like 30 or so, but she had all these notes already typed for biochem ect. She had like a whole binder full!! And school hasn't even started, I was like...gunner. That kind of annoyed me a bit.
Its not that I haven't studied a little, its just to have pages and pages of typed notes!! WOW!!

Well, at least I know someone.

Mossjoh
Ironically, if that annoyed you, that would make you more of a "gunner" in my book. To me, being a gunner isn't about studying hard or going extra distances to do well. It's students who try and "gun" other students down, or who get upset when their classmates are doing well or working hard. I would focus on your own studies, don't worry about what other people are doing, and try to do the best that you can do. And on a side note, the whole binder full of notes will probably not do her any good. It's what goes into your brain, not what you write down, that counts. I would suggest that you advice her that making nice notes is usually a fruitless activity, but people like that usually don't listen to advice. They ultimately have to figure it out for themselves when they get torn between their note-writing duties and spending time actually learning the material during the school year. It sounds like she is just nervous about starting school.
 

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Originally posted by Mossjoh
I met another MS1 starting this weekend at Barnes and Noble. I've been talking to her via email for a while. She is an older student, like 30 or so, but she had all these notes already typed for biochem ect. She had like a whole binder full!! And school hasn't even started, I was like...gunner. That kind of annoyed me a bit.
Its not that I haven't studied a little, its just to have pages and pages of typed notes!! WOW!!

Well, at least I know someone.

Mossjoh
Like ckent notes, many students will start off the semester doing this type of stuff, only to see it impossible to maintain. Even worse are the types (and my med school roommate was one) who spend MORE TIME organizing than they do memorizing. Fancy notes, slides, computer programs are great but if you don't actually study and remember the material, you might as well not study at all.

Don't worry about what others are doing (as ckent notes, only "gunners" do).
 

Mossjoh

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No, I'm not concerned with what others do. I just found it interesting that anyone would be motivated that much before school started to do this. I realize that medicine isn't a competition, we all are going down the same road and all med students should help each other.

Anyway.....Sunday it all starts

Mossjoh
 

DuneHog

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Another thing you will eventually realize is that gunners are often the most insecure people in medical school. They are constantly worrying and comparing themselves to others because they are so concerned with their own inadequacies. One of the best things you can do for yourself in medical school is to adopt a sense of mature confidence:

Be confident in the methods you use to study. Only you know what works best for you. It's OK to take hints from other people that seem to have methods that work well, but be confident in your own experience and knowledge of the way you learn best. You have studied all your life and would not be in medical school if you weren't aware of what study methods work best.

Be confident in the way you handle yourself on the wards. People who get the most respect from others are not the ones always trying to "one up" everyone else. You will gain respect on the wards if you reserve your comments for times when you truly have something to add and can add it confidently.

Be confident about your decisions regarding patient care. Often times no one knows what is the best course of action, but people will respect you for making a decision and sticking with it.

Be confident in the way you discuss things with patients. Patients really value a clear answer stated in a confident manor. Everyone knows that doctors are humans and make mistakes, but your recommendations will always be questioned if you cannot state them with confidence.

Sorry for the tirade - These are just some of the rules that I have tried to live by as a medical student, and I think that the have helped me succeed without being a gunner.
 

WakeMedHeel

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Gunners are the people who get upset when others do well...such as the two students in my class who were upset when they found out that our second anatomy exam had been delayed due to the events of 9/11. They continued to study while the a solid majority of the class had other things on their mind.

Continue to maintain perspective on the things that are important in life. If you have to study all the time that's okay...it doesn't mean you are a gunner. There is nothing wrong with wanting to do well in school. Just make sure you take the time to enjoy life.
 

MD'05

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Some of the most likeable people are gunners ... they pretend that they haven't read the notes, text, lab manual, etc. When you begin to spout your knowledge and they are able to correct you -- you know they know their s**t and have been lying all along. But you can use them to your advantage in correcting your dysknowledge ... :laugh:
 

djjj08

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to me, I think it all depends on who you are and who you deal with...
one particular individual may act like a true "gunner" to some, but not to all...

But above all, I don't see why someone would a have problem seeing someone with an organized notes, etc...

"chances favor prepared mind"!

;)
 

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Al Gore: Ultimate Gunner


Think about it.
 

ligado

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NR77: i agree that most people hate gunners b/c they live in a world of their own and do tend to make people jealous...oh and they love to upset curves...but i admit, im a gunner and i love what it has done for me (ie, 258, need i say more)...you can avoid being a hated gunner though by going out of your way to help others...i do anything i can to help out my team on rotations and they appreciate that...my other suggestion is become notorious for being a gunner and quite the party animal as i have - people have respect for students who ace a test and then go crazy with the rest of the class - my motto - "for every A deserves a 6pack...and a shot"
 

8744

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But almost by definition, if you help other people you are not a gunner. I would say that the top four or five people in my class are not gunners...just a little anal compulsive.

But that's alright. A few of them post all of their "condensed" notes as well as compilations of old test questions. If they were gunners they'd never dream of such a thing.
 

Diogenes

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I think I agree with Panda. Being anal compulsive and being a gunner are not necessarily the same thing. Being at the top of your class does not mean you are a gunner. A gunner is a bad thing to be, because you need to be doing bad things or have bad characteristics to be a gunner, at least the way most people I know use the term.
 

Trek

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Originally posted by ligado
NR77: i agree that most people hate gunners b/c they live in a world of their own and do tend to make people jealous...oh and they love to upset curves...but i admit, im a gunner and i love what it has done for me (ie, 258, need i say more)...you can avoid being a hated gunner though by going out of your way to help others...i do anything i can to help out my team on rotations and they appreciate that...my other suggestion is become notorious for being a gunner and quite the party animal as i have - people have respect for students who ace a test and then go crazy with the rest of the class - my motto - "for every A deserves a 6pack...and a shot"
This ain't the 6th grade anymore, troll, we're in REALITY now. --Trek
 

ligado

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Trek: What kind of reality do you live in??? does not anyone at your school go out? dont give me that med school is supposed to be all serious and no fun - my point was its ok to study all the time and work hard but let others see you relax and be human every once in awhile, troll.
..and i dont know what you guys define gunner as but where i come from a "gunner" is a person who studies way to much for a test and then downplays it like it was nothing (they may or may not have sabotage in mind for other students)..and who said i was the nicest person..check out my website sometime or the post on "its official USMLE STEP 1 scores are in"...if you think a gunner has to have evil tendencies then im sure i meet some of those requirements..hell i wont let anyone study with me and im not one of those tools that rewrites all their notes and then hands them out to everyone..when it comes to classes - youre on your own but i dont see any reason to be like that on rotations was all i was saying
 

Centrum

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^ The above is from Ligados site. Just wanted to clear that up. I wonder what Mustafa would have to say about the comments on liberals. :eek:
 

Diogenes

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Originally posted by Centrum
^ The above is from Ligados site. Just wanted to clear that up. I wonder what Mustafa would have to say about the comments on liberals. :eek:
I found the anti-Native American bigotry to be particularly ******ed.
 

DuneHog

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Gunner or not, ligado is obviously a knob.
 

Centrum

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ligado

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you pansy asses! suck it up! ...besides my website is actually just a motivating factor for injuns to get off the reservations, quit drinking and start contributing to society in some way...think about it...theyve been crying for a couple of hundred years over some land conquered..is that not what history is all about? and yah liberals are the biggest pansies - a whole bunch of tree huggin hippies with no aim except to cry about every social issue.
 

Diogenes

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Originally posted by ligado
you pansy asses! suck it up! ...besides my website is actually just a motivating factor for injuns to get off the reservations, quit drinking and start contributing to society in some way...think about it...theyve been crying for a couple of hundred years over some land conquered..is that not what history is all about? and yah liberals are the biggest pansies - a whole bunch of tree huggin hippies with no aim except to cry about every social issue.
Another person that talks about something with no knowledge base at all. Gotta love the Internet.:rolleyes:
 

ckent

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Originally posted by ligado
you pansy asses! suck it up! ...besides my website is actually just a motivating factor for injuns to get off the reservations, quit drinking and start contributing to society in some way...think about it...theyve been crying for a couple of hundred years over some land conquered..is that not what history is all about? and yah liberals are the biggest pansies - a whole bunch of tree huggin hippies with no aim except to cry about every social issue.
You are racist. If it was more socially acceptable, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you were interested in starting a KKK chapter at your medical school. And if you think that calling someone "worthless"
is going to motivate them to do anything, I feel very sorry for your patients.
 

Centrum

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Originally posted by ckent


You are racist. If it was more socially acceptable, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you were interested in starting a KKK chapter at your medical school. And if you think that calling someone "worthless"
is going to motivate them to do anything, I feel very sorry for your patients.
Yep.
 

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You folks are all in denial because everyone of you are gunners. It's not bad, rather it's inevitable. Premed teaches you to become gunners, and medical school forces you to remain gunners. It's survival of the fittest. There really is no such thing as teamwork in medical school, because most of the time, you are thinking of yourself and how you'll get the most benefit from a team. Whenever there's a competitive environment, the gunner is almost always the survivor. It's just like Nash's equilibrium.
 

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Originally posted by nuclearrabbit77
as an incoming M1, i envision myself needing to have gunner-like study habits since i'm contemplating doing a highly competitive residency (ENT), yet i see so much stigma against gunners that i'm afraid that the costs aren't worth the benefits. obviously, it's possible to divorce personality and attitude from study habits,...but from people currently in school,..how frequently do you see a friendly and social "gunner"?
A--hole Gunners piss off MD/JD students
MD/JD student recognizes Gunner in a malpractice law suit
MD/JD student confesses against Gunner
Gunner go bye bye

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Um....being competitive is okay as long as you are not an
A---hole. Don't be an A--hole and everything should be fine. Don't brag about your grades, it upsets people. Help other students if you can.....just....be nice.
 

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:hardy:
Monster2: You and ligado should hook up-man, you are two peas in a pod...and most entertaining!
 

Centrum

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Originally posted by unregistered
:hardy:
Monster2: You and ligado should hook up-man, you are two peas in a pod...and most entertaining!

I will even purchase you some
.
 

sanfilippo

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we have what we call "closet" gunners: people who are affable, fun-loving, and have the best sense of humor, but when it comes to studies, boards, and working their asses off in the hospital, they do it. yup, i think i fall in this group. however, then there are "hard core" gunners who are antisocial or aggressive, who ridicule and mock others, and who are so opportunisitic that they will crush everything in their way to fawn on residents/attendings and lap up any rewards.


so, two varieties of gunners exist. most people fall into one of those categories. others are the slackers, who don't seem to care much about anything: their grades, their candidacy as future residency applicants, their ignorance...

-s.
 

phllystyl

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Originally posted by sanfilippo



so, two varieties of gunners exist. most people fall into one of those categories. others are the slackers, who don't seem to care much about anything: their grades, their candidacy as future residency applicants, their ignorance...

-s.
anyone else find this comment to be gunner-esque?

If the kids wanna slack let them, who are you to pass judgement?
 

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I've been thinking about this whole "gunner" thing-first I want to say that I love the term "affable gunner" and I reserve the right to use it sometime in the future.

After reading the "gunner" threads (thanks O for pointing me in the direction of the most excellent search feature) I've come to this conclusion: so what, who cares? There will always be gunners and slackers in my med school world-I'm just gonna have to do what I can do and try to get along.

So, no more from me on the whole "gunner" issue-except I still reserve the right to use the term "affable gunner" because that is just toooooo good to let go....:p