Can you give me a realistic perspective on the journey I'll be on before making my final decision?

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SouthernSurgeon said:
:troll:
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You are completely wrong about that. If you actually helped answer the question, this thread would be long over.

The question being, what are my options for working in an inner city, and how much can I expect?

I'm having to figure it out on my own for the most part, although some people on here have been helpful (thank you)

Like I said, private practice in the inner city doesn't seem to be possible based on the fact Medicaid is "lost money" according to a thread on here. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how FQHC's work, and seeing if there might be other opportunities in the inner city that I am unaware of.

I suppose you are probably upset about my trust, which I regrest mentioning at all. It has become a big distraction from the actual question at hand.
 
RNineTime said:
You are completely wrong about that. If you actually helped answer the question, this thread would be long over.

The question being, what are my options for working in an inner city, and how much can I expect?

I'm having to figure it out on my own for the most part, although some people on here have been helpful (thank you)

Like I said, private practice in the inner city doesn't seem to be possible based on the fact Medicaid is "lost money" according to a thread on here. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how FQHC's work, and seeing if there might be other opportunities in the inner city that I am unaware of.

I suppose you are probably upset about my trust, which I regrest mentioning at all. It has become a big distraction from the actual question at hand.
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You're misunderstanding the comments being directed towards you. No one cares that you're rich through an accident of birth. It has everything to do with what you've said your goals are, the lifestyle you desire, and the level of effort you've stated you're comfortable with, all of which do not align with a career in medicine, especially that of a PCP.
 
TheLionheart said:
You're misunderstanding the comments being directed towards you. No one cares that you're rich through an accident of birth. It has everything to do with what you've said your goals are, the lifestyle you desire, and the level of effort you've stated you're comfortable with, all of which do not align with a career in medicine, especially that of a PCP.
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All right. I get it. Doctor's can't live in 5 million dollar high rise condos in Miami and go shopping on the weekends and live the glitz and glamourous life I want. I'm not looking to medicine to fulfill that desire of mine. The "accident of birth" has taken care of that desire already.

As far as work is concerned, I've learned from all your posts you must work 60 hours a week instead of the 40 hours I originially thought, and I am 100 percent good with that. I will work 60 hours a week or however many hours to be successful in this career.

None of this has anything to do with FQHC's or working in the inner city. Whatever the case I will find out the answers to these questions ultimately.

EDIT: Medical school is coming up. All I'm trying to do is figure out if medicine is good enough for me or whether I should pursue business or whatever else.

I'm not going to accept blanket statements like "medicine is not right for you go away" type answers. I need actual data and facts to base my decsision. Not an opinion.

And I believe the reason why I'm receiving some hostility on here is because there are some people that don't like that I have a trust. But in hindsight, I shouldn't have expected better.


EDIT II: And I'll add one more thing. If I have hurt anyone's ego regarding their salary, my apologies. That was not my intent.
 
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RNineTime said:
All right. I get it. Doctor's can't live in 5 million dollar high rise condos in Miami and go shopping on the weekends and live the glitz and glamourous life I want. I'm not looking to medicine to fulfill that desire of mine. The "accident of birth" has taken care of that desire already.

As far as work is concerned, I've learned from all your posts you must work 60 hours a week instead of the 40 hours I originially thought, and I am 100 percent good with that. I will work 60 hours a week or however many hours to be successful in this career.

None of this has anything to do with FQHC's or working in the inner city. Whatever the case I will find out the answers to these questions ultimately.

EDIT: Medical school is coming up. All I'm trying to do is figure out if medicine is good enough for me or whether I should pursue business or whatever else.

I'm not going to accept blanket statements like "medicine is not right for you go away" type answers. I need actual data and facts to base my decsision. Not an opinion.

And I believe the reason why I'm receiving some hostility on here is because there are some people that don't like that I have a trust. But in hindsight, I shouldn't have expected better.


EDIT II: And I'll add one more thing. If I have hurt anyone's ego regarding their salary, my apologies. That was not my intent.
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Then you need to figure out whatever arbitrary salary number is sufficient to pay your "bills", and then come to terms with the fact that no one will be able to tell you what compensation is going to look like in 2022 when you become an attending physician.

Maybe you'll discover that today, right now, a PCP doing what you want to do can earn 200k, and that's the right tail of the distribution. What happens if you finish residency and reimbursements have dropped further, and now the right tail is around 170k? Is that okay? How about 150k?

Do you begin to see the problem of making your decision revolve around projected salary, especially in your case when the range you've described as acceptable and unacceptable is relatively small?

Some links for your enjoyment:

http://merceschcconsulting.com/2012/04/25/fqhc-physician-compensation-may-yet-be-competitive/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-low-can-salary-go.985988/
 
RNineTime said:
All right. I get it. Doctor's can't live in 5 million dollar high rise condos in Miami and go shopping on the weekends and live the glitz and glamourous life I want. I'm not looking to medicine to fulfill that desire of mine. The "accident of birth" has taken care of that desire already.

As far as work is concerned, I've learned from all your posts you must work 60 hours a week instead of the 40 hours I originially thought, and I am 100 percent good with that. I will work 60 hours a week or however many hours to be successful in this career.

None of this has anything to do with FQHC's or working in the inner city. Whatever the case I will find out the answers to these questions ultimately.

EDIT: Medical school is coming up. All I'm trying to do is figure out if medicine is good enough for me or whether I should pursue business or whatever else.

I'm not going to accept blanket statements like "medicine is not right for you go away" type answers. I need actual data and facts to base my decsision. Not an opinion.

And I believe the reason why I'm receiving some hostility on here is because there are some people that don't like that I have a trust. But in hindsight, I shouldn't have expected better.


EDIT II: And I'll add one more thing. If I have hurt anyone's ego regarding their salary, my apologies. That was not my intent.
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Ffs. Do this because you love medicine. You can make a lot of money thru other channels, like investing your trust fund would probably serve you better.

You need to not hate your life when busting your butt at three in the morning. Trust me when i say you'll hate your miserable life if you do this for money. School and residency will be far more than sixty hours. And theres nothing more than hard working residents will hate than a brat that doesn't want to be there.

There is no conrete data for this.

So stop. Just. Stop.
 
not trying to feed the troll but if this is a real person situation then I really speak this for all who are in medicine (not just physicians): Go to another company and start working there. When you realize that daddy is the only one paying you $100k for the work you do then you will be extremely happy to see your stability and hours. Business is an amazing gift to have and I suggest carrying your family business through and showing your father that you can become a boss. Nothing is better when children are capable of doing what their predecessors have done and including the family business in the family for future generations. Don't jump around for the money because it's not worth it if you don't like medicine and don't see beyond the glitz and glamour behind Grey's Anatomy. The odd hours and the amount of it you will work will not be compensated in your paycheck even though the median you see right now looks good to the eye...trust me that you are earning every single penny for it and who is to say that you are going to get the creme of the residency choices? Will money buy you the residency because that will completely destroy the purpose of being independent and maybe your family might have less of a respect for you any ways. If you really want to make money, why not own a hospital or multiple clinics? I mean as a doctor your personality will naturally focus on the financial aspect. It seems to me that your personality is better suited to business persons and you know that is great. Don't run away from your talents (unless you are horrible at business but great at counting dollars). Enjoy what you have and whoever is making you feel guilty of your continued linkage with family business needs to be ignored; I know plenty others who have taken reign of their family's work and have made it better. Make your current business successful and focus on becoming a business tycoon if a penthouse and shopping sprees are what you envision (nothing wrong with that but medicine might never give you a break). I think we can all see where your true inclinations are and maybe the only thing that irks all of us is the "easy" life idea you have which is neither found in a business genius nor a physician. I'll say this with experience and I say it again: something about medicine and money don't mix together and you know why? People in the field envision each one of us to be in the field for the patient. When I hear co-workers changing fields for money I don't trust who they are there for; whether they are even proud of the work they do. Loyalty in this field is of utmost concern and it makes the workplace better when someone stays in the line for a greater purpose; it's cheesy but you wouldn't know unless you were working the medical field. All of this is coming from a kid who might be the same age as you and is working hard in the field already to an extent. If I say this as a student and part-time worker, imagine my assumptions when I go full-time.
 
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OP, do you realize how much work you'll have to put into med school and residency before you can get those positions and salaries that you are talking about? The caps for residents are 80 hrs/week - maybe a resident or attending can weigh in on how often residents do work those 80 hour weeks.

You don't want to work hard and that's understandable given that you don't have to but that means you should not go into medicine. The PA route is an interesting idea for you. You'd only be making around $100k but your lifestyle would be a bit more flexible.

I say this because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt but I really don't think you have a whole lot of compassion, which is what I'd want in my doctors, PAs, and nurses. And no, don't bring up your trust as the reason for my answer. It's because of your attitude.
 
cyclopes93 said:
not trying to feed the troll but if this is a real person situation then I really speak this for all who are in medicine (not just physicians): Go to another company and start working there. When you realize that daddy is the only one paying you $100k for the work you do then you will be extremely happy to see your stability and hours. Business is an amazing gift to have and I suggest carrying your family business through and showing your father that you can become a boss. Nothing is better when children are capable of doing what their predecessors have done and including the family business in the family for future generations. Don't jump around for the money because it's not worth it if you don't like medicine and don't see beyond the glitz and glamour behind Grey's Anatomy. The odd hours and the amount of it you will work will not be compensated in your paycheck even though the median you see right now looks good to the eye...trust me that you are earning every single penny for it and who is to say that you are going to get the creme of the residency choices? Will money buy you the residency because that will completely destroy the purpose of being independent and maybe your family might have less of a respect for you any ways. If you really want to make money, why not own a hospital or multiple clinics? I mean as a doctor your personality will naturally focus on the financial aspect. It seems to me that your personality is better suited to business persons and you know that is great. Don't run away from your talents (unless you are horrible at business but great at counting dollars). Enjoy what you have and whoever is making you feel guilty of your continued linkage with family business needs to be ignored; I know plenty others who have taken reign of their family's work and have made it better. Make your current business successful and focus on becoming a business tycoon if a penthouse and shopping sprees are what you envision (nothing wrong with that but medicine might never give you a break). I think we can all see where your true inclinations are and maybe the only thing that irks all of us is the "easy" life idea you have which is neither found in a business genius nor a physician. I'll say this with experience and I say it again: something about medicine and money don't mix together and you know why? People in the field envision each one of us to be in the field for the patient. When I hear co-workers changing fields for money I don't trust who they are there for; whether they are even proud of the work they do. Loyalty in this field is of utmost concern and it makes the workplace better when someone stays in the line for a greater purpose; it's cheesy but you wouldn't know unless you were working the medical field. All of this is coming from a kid who might be the same age as you and is working hard in the field already to an extent. If I say this as a student and part-time worker, imagine my assumptions when I go full-time.
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I appreciate everyone’s thoughtful answers. I know it must’ve taken time to type so much, and I am thankful for your feedback.

Yes, I am considering business school at this point. You can expect around 120K starting salary, which isn’t much better but…

Maybe I’ll be able to use the skills I acquire in school to help the business, or even start a new business(es) with the capital I will have.

If anyone is still interested, I found this FQHC willing to share their starting salary. The only issue that it’s essentially in Manhattan. So you’ll have a good time, lots to do. But the salary after taxes would mean money would be tight for such an expensive city, unless you have a rich spouse or another means of funding your endeavors.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/jobsee...Q43P78RP3LNW1V88V&showNewJDP=yes&IPath=JRKV0D
 
Gauss44 said:
PAY AND HOURS
The following is my impression based on websites that use surveys from actual doctors to get their information.


SPECIALTIES AND PAY
Top Paid = Cardiologists, Urologists, Orthopedics
Average pay for (non-primary care) specialists: around $230k
Lowest Paid = Primary Care

Highest Annual Salary: a little over $600k (made by at least one Cardiologist in Alaska, most Cardiologists don't make that much)
Average for Cardiologists: about $330k

REGIONS AND PAY
Rural>Urban

HOURS
9am-5pm Specialties = Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology
Part Time, I believe, is allowed in just about any specialty.
Longest Hours = ??? I have no idea, but might guess Emergency Medicine?

JOB MARKET
I'm not sure how easy or difficult it is for a doctor to find work. That might depend on the specialty, and almost definitely depends on the area.

PROFESSOR SALARY = usually between 130k & 220k, medical surgery professors might double that

Non-Medical High Paying Jobs (not necessarily directed at OP) = Look up partner, analyst, associate, vice president, president, director, CFO, COO, CEO, etc. for law firms, financial firms, and major corporations. It may be hard to get some of these jobs, but it's hard to get into medical school too. You pick what's right for you!

*When researching this topic, be sure to research specialties like cardiologist and radiologist. And when researching university teachers, use titles like, "professor." There is a difference in rank between a lecturer, assistant professor, associate professor, etc.

(Feel free to comment, provide a different opinion, add to this list, etc. Just don't be rude.)
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Sorry, but a lot of mistakes here! For example, Radiology is no longer 9-5 pm....Plenty of docs earn over 600k...longest hours is def NOT EM...etc...
 
Please, if you actually have a medical school acceptance give it up because there is someone who deserves it more than you. You keep going back to money so clearly that's all you care about. You'll despise medicine.
And on another note:
:troll::troll:
 
I think it's important to drill this message home. This candidate may have a true story or a made-up one but one thing is clear and that is what the OP is best suited for. Calling OP a troll might just make us respond with dismissive replies which would make the OP do opposite of what we are saying in our annoyed tones.
 
samac said:
Please, if you actually have a medical school acceptance give it up because there is someone who deserves it more than you. You keep going back to money so clearly that's all you care about. You'll despise medicine.
And on another note:
:troll::troll:
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Financial literacy is extremely important to an individual's future (regardless of the presence of absence of old money), and to the future of the medical profession. There are plenty of businesses that would love to take financial advantage, or further financial advantage of doctors given the chance, certain educational institutions, insurance companies, the government, etc.
 
Medicine might in fact just be the worst choice of [legit] profession for someone that makes 500k/yr in 100% passive, guaranteed income.

Essentially every single characteristic of "practicing medicine" can be had by an alternative profession with a lot less blood/sweat/tears (perhaps except someone that "loves to cut people" so becomes a surgeon).
 
Gauss44 said:
Financial literacy is extremely important to an individual's future (regardless of the presence of absence of old money), and to the future of the medical profession. There are plenty of businesses that would love to take financial advantage, or further financial advantage of doctors given the chance, certain educational institutions, insurance companies, the government, etc.
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While I agree financial literacy is important, if that's the only consideration your weighing on whether or not to become a physician you don't need to become one. If I was making 500K a year it would make it that much easier of a decision for be because I wouldn't have to worry about med school debt.
 
samac said:
While I agree financial literacy is important, if that's the only consideration your weighing on whether or not to become a physician you don't need to become one. If I was making 500K a year it would make it that much easier of a decision for be because I wouldn't have to worry about med school debt.
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Money is not the only consideration so I'll go on ahead and nip that statement in the bud. Whatever the case, I don't think anyone realizes how hard it is to just drop something you've been working hard at for years now. Undergrad courses, volunteering, shadowing, research, mcat, application essays, interviews, admission, then just dropping it and pursuing a whole new career? So I just order some GMAT books and start prepping for business school?

I know it might not sound like a big deal to you, but it is definitely hard to just drop something in an instant after pursuing it for so long.

I have a couple questions

1. If one enrolls in medical school and later decides to drop out, what's the reprucussions of that?

2. Once you finish your step 3 exam, do you HAVE to practice in order to keep your license? Or can you just hold on to it while doing other things? Then use it later to practice if need be?

EDIT:

Question 3. What exactly does the statement "Don't do medicine for the money" mean? Are you saying that because a) medicine is an selfless profession and it is immoral to consider money as a factor for practicing it

OR

b) don't do medicine for the money because there isn't a lot of money in it...
 
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cyclopes93 said:
I think it's important to drill this message home. This candidate may have a true story or a made-up one but one thing is clear and that is what the OP is best suited for. Calling OP a troll might just make us respond with dismissive replies which would make the OP do opposite of what we are saying in our annoyed tones.
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Hahahahaha, I'm imagining someone enrolling in medical school just to spite anonymous online forum posters.
 
Question 3:
Neither. There isn't enough money in the world to motivate someone to work as hard and as long as they need to sustain a happy/healthy outlook in their career.
 
In medicine, you have to continue taking exams periodically for the rest of your career to hold your license because that is usually state mandated law. I'm sorry but medicine is not a part time gig.
 
1. Repercussions of dropping out of medical school are that you keep the debt and if you change your mind about it your chances of getting back into school are greatly diminished.
2. I'm not an authority on that. Hopefully someone else can answer that question.
3. For the amount of work doctors put in through their UG, Med school, residency, and hours in their practice it's not worth it for the money. It really is a selfless profession and, while I don't think considering the money is immoral, you shouldn't let it be a deciding factor.
If your debating a different profession purely because the compensation isn't enough for you you probably shouldn't go into into medicine.
 
RNineTime said:
Money is not the only consideration so I'll go on ahead and nip that statement in the bud. Whatever the case, I don't think anyone realizes how hard it is to just drop something you've been working hard at for years now. Undergrad courses, volunteering, shadowing, research, mcat, application essays, interviews, admission, then just dropping it and pursuing a whole new career? So I just order some GMAT books and start prepping for business school?

I know it might not sound like a big deal to you, but it is definitely hard to just drop something in an instant after pursuing it for so long.

I have a couple questions

1. If one enrolls in medical school and later decides to drop out, what's the reprucussions of that?

2. Once you finish your step 3 exam, do you HAVE to practice in order to keep your license? Or can you just hold on to it while doing other things? Then use it later to practice if need be?

EDIT:

Question 3. What exactly does the statement "Don't do medicine for the money" mean? Are you saying that because a) medicine is an selfless profession and it is immoral to consider money as a factor for practicing it

OR

b) don't do medicine for the money because there isn't a lot of money in it...
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1. You can drop out. No problem. You might even be allowed to go back to the school you dropped out of because schools like to protect their graduation rate. It is rare for someone to drop out but it has happened and it is possible to decide to go back. (I know at least one person who has done so.)

2. You don't have to practice to keep your license. You do need to take and pass an exam periodically. Some elderly docs who are no longer practicing drop their license and their malpractice insurance so as to have an excuse when someone asks for a curbside consultation.

3. Most medical practice requires long hours and most requires some work on weekends and holidays at least a few times per year. There are odors that will make you gag, sights that will turn your stomach, people in pain and misery that modern medicine has nothing to offer, people who are angry with you for things beyond your control, people who will insult you, ignore your advice, and blame you for whatever goes wrong. There will be kids who have been abused, people with the latest electronics and handbags who will complain about the cost of a generic antibiotic for their kid's strep throat, parents who go out for a smoke while you are treating their kid's asthma, demented grannies in soiled clothing who have been dumped by family members who can't take it anymore. For a candid account from someone who has done it see: http://www.studentdoctor.net/pandabearmd/q24h/

Going back to some of my original advice, go to med school, do a residency, get licensed and then get a job with a foundation (or establish a foundation) that will let you do what you want to make the world a better place.
 
That was an enlightening read, no doubt. I see why physicians say don’t go in it for the money now. Thanks.

To anyone interested, I found a link for the tuition for every medical school in America, public and private, from 1996-2015. AAMC did a great job with this, and it’s an incredible resource for all the premeds out there (and premed parents who might be wondering about tuition).

The med school I got into will cost over 200k. I’m guessing more around 225k-250k including living expenses.

My grandmother is a businesswoman. I asked her for advice, and she was pretty blunt. Being the businesswoman she is, she told me that if I took 250k and bought shares in our company instead of investing it in an education, by the time I am a doctor, it would likely balloon up near the 1 million mark. Possibly even higher depending on the broader market.

Now, I know that has little to do with making a decision to go medical school. But it’s definitely an interesting perspective that I never thought about, none the less.

Anyway, again, I must thank everyone for the replies and private messages! You guys and girls have been very helpful.

Here’s the link. Hope it helps.

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/
 
RNineTime said:
That was an enlightening read, no doubt. I see why physicians say don’t go in it for the money now. Thanks.

To anyone interested, I found a link for the tuition for every medical school in America, public and private, from 1996-2015. AAMC did a great job with this, and it’s an incredible resource for all the premeds out there (and premed parents who might be wondering about tuition).

The med school I got into will cost over 200k. I’m guessing more around 225k-250k including living expenses.

My grandmother is a businesswoman. I asked her for advice, and she was pretty blunt. Being the businesswoman she is, she told me that if I took 250k and bought shares in our company instead of investing it in an education, by the time I am a doctor, it would likely balloon up near the 1 million mark. Possibly even higher depending on the broader market.

Now, I know that has little to do with making a decision to go medical school. But it’s definitely an interesting perspective that I never thought about, none the less.

Anyway, again, I must thank everyone for the replies and private messages! You guys and girls have been very helpful.

Here’s the link. Hope it helps.

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/
Click to expand...

Please don't go into medicine.
 
RNineTime said:
That was an enlightening read, no doubt. I see why physicians say don’t go in it for the money now. Thanks.

To anyone interested, I found a link for the tuition for every medical school in America, public and private, from 1996-2015. AAMC did a great job with this, and it’s an incredible resource for all the premeds out there (and premed parents who might be wondering about tuition).

The med school I got into will cost over 200k. I’m guessing more around 225k-250k including living expenses.

My grandmother is a businesswoman. I asked her for advice, and she was pretty blunt. Being the businesswoman she is, she told me that if I took 250k and bought shares in our company instead of investing it in an education, by the time I am a doctor, it would likely balloon up near the 1 million mark. Possibly even higher depending on the broader market.

Now, I know that has little to do with making a decision to go medical school. But it’s definitely an interesting perspective that I never thought about, none the less.

Anyway, again, I must thank everyone for the replies and private messages! You guys and girls have been very helpful.

Here’s the link. Hope it helps.

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/
Click to expand...

Most folks borrow the cost of medical school and pay it back with their earnings from the practice of medicine. It is unlikely that many of them could borrow $250K to invest in the market and the carrying costs would have to be considered when measuring the return on investment. If you are paying cash for med school rather than borrowing, you have a real choice regarding the best use of capital. Decide wisely. Your grandmother seems very astute and if your decision is on the best investment for your future, then investing in your family's business rather than in professional education, might be a good choice for you.
 
If it was as simple as quadrupling your money every 10 years we would all be multimillionaires. Please share this business that is poised for this 400% explosive growth.
Here's math I can follow.
Borrow ~250 now, pay ~500 later.
Work 30 years at 250/yr and have about 7.5 million lifetime earning.
Of course you're investing as you go and making smart money decisions, so you'll earn quite a bit in investments over that time as well.
Of course your 250k that quadruples every 8-10 years will be worth much more, at least 16 million in the bank.
You're so lucky to have this sage advisor. I'm happy if my primary financial advisor beats the market. Which he has for many years. And I really am happy.
 
Hi ladies and gentlemen. Hope everyone on here has been doing well.

I want to share some interesting information I received after visiting my primary care physician.

He told me that he’s seeing more patients than ever, because 3 private practices in the area had to close down. He said the future is heading away from private practice as we know it, and it will be more group oriented and hospital oriented, which will in turn will result in more closures.

He also said that ICD-10 is going to be implemented in October and that a lot of private practices are showing concern about this because it essentially makes the billing process more difficult.

He also said that there are a lot more restrictions than before. For example, medicare (or medicaid?) only pays 2.5 days for hospital stays. So hospitals don’t want to keep patients longer, but he often times feels that a patient needs to stay longer so he won’t discharge them.

But he said the hospital is hiring hospitalist that are under the “whip” of the hospital and they just dismiss the patient.

He also said his overhead is almost 25k a month. Just a random fact. But obviously he's making more than that.

He also said in 2019, which is a while away, but still important for premeds to consider, they will have a panel who will decide how much for reimbursements for medicare patients.

He said it is intended to cut the costs of medicare which will in turn will pay doctors less, and that the Supreme Court sided with the Affordable Care Act on this issue recently when an Orthopedic surgeon sued.

Anyway, that’s about all we talked about besides the reason for my visit.

I’ve been talking to other premeds. They’ve been hearing a lot too. Some have decided to do other things because of the debt. One of my friends got into a great school, but he said he’ll probably end up in 400K debt and won’t be able to pay much back until after residency.

Another friend said he’s concerned about the cuts but he’ll get into a specialty so he makes enough to pay back debt.

As far as I’m concerned, I’m leaning towards business because I feel like there’s more opportunity there for me. I actually have a business trip planned to New York, NY and well as Toronto, ON.
 
Hi! I have some more updates, but they are not very good.

I want to discuss the state of affairs for 3 doctors my family knows and 1 medical students’ and 1 residents' parent.

Doctors 1& 2) Two doctors my family knows are struggling to get patients and are hoping to get referrals by working at other clinics. One of them has been practicing for over 20 years! Neither of them had to do this before.

Doctor 3) She is a psychiatrist. She had to shut down her entire practice. The good news is that she was able to get another job (as a psychiatrist).

Resident’s parent) She said her daughter blames her everyday for sending her to med school, and said it is very difficult with all the new changes.

Med Student’s Parent) She said that medicine has lost its glamor. It is no longer a glamorous profession.

Every doctor mentioned above use to live flashy lifestyles before the recent ACA implementations. One of them had to sell his $70,000 luxury car.

I think if they viewed medicine in their heart of hearts as a nobel profession they wouldn’t care as much about the pay cuts. But to each his own.

I am not altruistic enough to be a doctor. I care for humanity, but not enough to sacrifice 80+ hours a week of my life unless the pay is high.

The kind of life I plan to live is directly counter to the life I would have to live as a physician, and unless I’m getting paid a lot for it, it is a sacrifice I am not willing to make.

I have no plans at this point to continue along this path.

Best regards,

Rninetime
 
RNineTime said:
Hi! I have some more updates, but they are not very good.
I want to discuss the state of affairs for 3 doctors my family knows and 1 medical students’ and 1 residents' parent.
Doctors 1& 2) Two doctors my family knows are struggling to get patients and are hoping to get referrals by working at other clinics. One of them has been practicing for over 20 years! Neither of them had to do this before.
Doctor 3) She is a psychiatrist. She had to shut down her entire practice. The good news is that she was able to get another job (as a psychiatrist).
Resident’s parent) She said her daughter blames her everyday for sending her to med school, and said it is very difficult with all the new changes.
Med Student’s Parent) She said that medicine has lost its glamor. It is no longer a glamorous profession.
Every doctor mentioned above use to live flashy lifestyles before the recent ACA implementations. One of them had to sell his $70,000 luxury car.
I think if they viewed medicine in their heart of hearts as a nobel profession they wouldn’t care as much about the pay cuts. But to each his own.
I am not altruistic enough to be a doctor. I care for humanity, but not enough to sacrifice 80+ hours a week of my life unless the pay is high.
The kind of life I plan to live is directly counter to the life I would have to live as a physician, and unless I’m getting paid a lot for it, it is a sacrifice I am not willing to make.
I have no plans at this point to continue along this path.
Best regards,
Rninetime
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Did you just pull this from Fox News? It is May 2015 and we still have to deal with anti-ACA propaganda...
 
nRomaleos said:
Did you just pull this from Fox News? It is May 2015 and we still have to deal with anti-ACA propaganda...
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Yeah, ikr? Another poor soul who can't think for themselves...
 
I sent an email to the doc I shadowed about my decision. He didn't seem too happy about it. At all. I think he might have taken it personally. His attitude was as if I'm not good enough when I'm the one denying med school by not going. Med school accepted me so obviously I'm qualified. But whatever.

He knows everything about my situation now (the 500k per year trust), as I did end up discussing it with him. Therefore, I don't see why it would come as a surprise. Maybe it's because of my attitude. Ok, sure. Maybe I do have a bit of an attitude. But if you were me, be honest, you would too.

In hindsight, I honestly feel like I have found myself through this long and daunting process. I really have, and I've learned more about the world these past couple months than I have my whole life, specifically this:

Because I am richer than doctors, it will be impossible for me to fit into your culture. My values are vastly different than yours. I was born into the business community, and I will only find like minded people in it. Ultimately, I value a comfortable life and like to indulge in the excesses. Criticize that mode of thinking all you want but that's me. I've had months in my past where I've spent so much money on my dad's credit card that I am ashamed and still cringe when thinking about it. I learned growing up its important to associate with similar people who hangout in the same circles. I'm learning the hard way this is true. I cannot fit in with doctors unless I pretend to be someone who lives an ascetic lifestyle, sleeps in hospital bunkers, and doesn't care to make much money. It's asking for too much out of me.

I will say I'm glad I got into medical school. It feels good to have gotten in given how coveted it is. But I'm glad I'm walking away on my own terms. And I'm glad I'm walking away in a better position than I would've been in if I accepted and went. At the end of the day, I have no worries because I have my trust which pays a lot and by not going I will have more time to enjoy it outside of my work.

I know this is a long post. But I feel like it's important I let go of all my thoughts even if it is to virtual people that go away as soon as I hit the home button lol.

Ok, so last thought. After all that I went through with the whole admissions process (AND MCAT UGH)...I'm booking a ticket to Miami, then fixing myself a drink, and taking the day off because I've been up all night. I deserve a vacation to the beach after all that I've done.

I'm going to take the high ground, and leave you with something nice even though most doctors via anonymous forums are quite immature and seemingly bitter as witnessed in these comments. Anyway here goes:

Thank you med students, residents, and doctors for studying day and night, diagnosing illnesses, and prescribing medication. It is a tremendous sacrifice. Why you do it, few will understand. Certainly not for the Bentleys and Miami mansions lol. Whatever the reason, it's good to know humanity has altruistic people that just want to help people. It is very nice of y'all to do.

Rninetime
 
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RNineTime said:
I learned growing up its important to associate with similar people who hangout in the same circles.
Click to expand...
Actually, one never fully realizes their true potential if they never seek to diversify their beliefs, ideals, and values by associating with people who are different but similar. Have fun being an immature little brat for the rest of your wasted potential of a life. 1/10

Actually, no. More like -12/10.
 
RNineTime said:
...
He knows everything about my situation now (the 500k per year trust), as I did end up discussing it with him. Therefore, I don't see why it would come as a surprise. Maybe it's because of my attitude. Ok, sure. Maybe I do have a bit of an attitude. But if you were me, be honest, you would too.
....
Rninetime
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While I would never be in the situation to have evidence to support what I say. I do believe I would do medicine even if I was suddenly given a trust of that magnitude if I can retain my past experiences. It's one of those decisions to make after asking yourself "If I had all the money I could use for the rest of my life, what do I want to do with myself". As for the money, I would use it to support my family, my elderly parents and in-laws with a sizable chunk saved for truly life affirming charities.

Not trying to say anything about myself. I just believe people have things they are meant to do. Some are meant to be stay at home parents. Some are meant to be scientists. Some are meant to tend gardens. It's important IMO that if you have the option and life isn't oppressing you, find out what you're meant to do. (Hopefully it would be something good for you and giving to society too).
 
Ace Khalifa said:
Actually, one never fully realizes their true potential if they never seek to diversify their beliefs, ideals, and values by associating with people who are different but similar. Have fun being an immature little brat for the rest of your wasted potential of a life. 1/10

Actually, no. More like -12/10.
Click to expand...

I think the MD route would be a waste of potential for someone like me because I won't have time to maximize my opportunities in business.

There is nothing an MD would add to my life that I don't already have.

Immature little brat? Eh, I have been at times. If you were in my shoes, you would be too. But it's more fun than slogging 80+ hours a week. That's for sure.
 
RNineTime said:
5. I am actually kind of delighted to hear that I can work in an underserved inner-city area. That is something I can see myself doing. I grew up in an upper class neighborhood. Ideally, I would like to serve them. But I wouldn’t mind working in the inner-city. For me, as long as I get to stay in the city, I’ll be happy.
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No chance this is a real post
 
@RNineTime I thought you were aiming for financial independence, not taking over the family business. I'll admit, I was skimming over these posts so perhaps I missed the part about the business opportunity. Best of luck running the business.

Edit: I agree it doesn't make sense for people with business opportunities to attend med school, but imo the trust really should not impact this decision. Regardless of whether you become a doctor or not, you'll still have the trust...
 
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I'm getting a "John Carter from ER" vibe, without all the great qualities that made me like John Carter
 
ranob said:
@RNineTime It is quite reassuring to know that people of your caliber choose to pursue the premed track. Sounds like you had it planned out much the same way I do (attempt to gain financial independence in college while hedging on medical school in case said attempt fails). It is clear from this thread that you failed in your attempt at financial independence (you mentioned you were only able to make $100k/year, which is not nearly enough for any meaningful sort of financial independence and tbh quite easy to attain); I am quite surprised that given that, you still decided to give up on your hedge (med school) on the off chance you could make more money in business, despite having absolutely no experience in this area and failing to do so during college. Your blanket statements regarding "culture," "values," and the like are little more than ill-conceived post-hoc justifications. I'm curious what the real reason was for your decision not to pursue medicine is; there's no way a couple snide comments on an anonymous message board or highly inaccurate income information from the doctors you knew turned you away. Ftr, the PCPs I know are all making well over 500k (before taxes). And these are doctors that didn't even get into competitive residencies. It sounds like you're willing to work for a $300k salary; if you pick the right residency (e.g. derm) that's straightforward to attain. In any event, best of luck in business. This thread was quite entertaining to read.
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Ah yes. The ever so "you're a failure" line. I'd rather be a "failure" with a 500K trust than a "winner" as a doctor who earns less. Don't forget, I have made the choice not to attend. In a sense, I denied med school. Not the other way around.

The Medscape report has the highest doc (ortho) at just above 400k so I'm still better off financially, but the biggest difference is time. I don't actually have to do anything while an orthopedist has to work hard.

I don't want to be a doctor anymore for a variety of reasons, but mainly because it would be a step down for me. I don't say this to be pretentious, but it's the truth. I don't think anyone with business opportunity AND a 500K a year trust would become a doctor. It was naive of me in hindsight.

P.S. If you believe school will teach you how to be a successful businesswoman, you have gravely mistaken. It's usually family run- in my case for generations.
 
Marry me so that we can both live in a 6 mln penthouse and shop at Bal Harbour

orm3ix.jpg
 
LizzyM said:
An adcom somewhere made a grave error. Fortunately, RNineTime has rectified that error.

Live long and prosper.
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You think my friends who got in are much different than me?

It's not hard to tell an adcom what they want to hear.

As long as you have a good MCAT & GPA, all you have to do is just write down X hours for i.e. shadowing and how much you learned about the patient-doctor relationship yadda yadda. I just googled "patient doctor relationship" and saw a YouTube video on it.

My friends googled "medical school interview questions" and some sites even tell you the right answer. It worked for them and me

...and I'm sure many other students across the nation...

Seriously, don't believe that every med student you admit is there for the reasons they say.

EDIT: All I learned from shadowing is that you should almost never refer a patient to a specialist bc it's better you keep them coming back. And that you have to run your practice like a business otherwise it will fail.

I also learned that it's OK to make fun of patients. Especially ones with an eGFR of 5 and have STDs.

EDIT 2: Oh and that it's too much hassle to send a patient to the ER so just bounce them to the next doctor and hope they make it to their appointment (which btw they didn't)

Then you wonder why students don't see medicine as a "nobel profession"
 
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I should add 1 more thing to my post above. SDN is the only place I've ever seen where doctors and students act this way.

In the real world, students talk all the time about the money, or these days the lack thereof, and yes they get in.

One doctor I know through friendship with my parents even said she chose medicine to make money and never really felt the rewards of helping others until my mom asked her how good it must feel to be in such a career.

So, yeah I think it's just the fashion to be this way on this website. 1 person does everyone else follows.

EDIT: And I think adcoms need to realize that premed students are not Jesus- wanting to be rich is a fine pursuit. In fact, money being a motivation can make someone do their best and work harder.

If an adcom seriously thinks every student in their classroom is there to help the needy, there's only 1 person in that classroom being fooled.
 
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Here are the videos I mentioned 2 posts above this one. It answers the patient-doctor relationship question and will make you sound like a genius. Even gives examples you can use as your own (I think my friend did that and got in)

Google has made interviewing...a breeze. Just repeat this stuff.



 
OH! How could I forget?

The most classic thing I learned shadowing:

A patient had been taking B6 supplements instead of B12. But the doctor thought she was only on B12 supplements.

Her B6 level was double what it was supposed to be. So the doctor said, just cut your B12 tablets in half!
 
Of course we talk about money.

My peers and I are concerned about our income, and I'm sure some care more than others, the difference between us and you is that we ALL care about our patients MORE. Having a stable, good paying job is a goal, but it is certainly not THE goal.

Props to LizzyM, thanks for the read.
 
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