Can you read books in the OR?

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punkedoutriffs

punkedoutriffs

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Like during a light/routine case or whatever, can you straight up bring War & Peace into the OR instead of a crossword/sudoku and just read it? Would that be frowned upon?
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punkedoutriffs said:
Like during a light/routine case or whatever, can you straight up bring War & Peace into the OR instead of a crossword/sudoku and just read it? Would that be frowned upon?
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Your implication is that crosswords/Sudoku would be acceptable - that would be incorrect.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Like during a light/routine case or whatever, can you straight up bring War & Peace into the OR instead of a crossword/sudoku and just read it? Would that be frowned upon?
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If you are a trainee first you need to ask yourself whether you are ethically/medicolegally comfortable with reading in the OR (imagine yourself on the witness stand answering the plaintiff's attorney's questions about what you were doing when the patient arrested on the table). Then get a sense for your program and your individual attendings' tolerance for reading in the OR (some are OK with it, some are not). Then it had damn well better be something educational or there'll be a lot of eyebrow raising about you in the anesthesia lounge.
 
Gimlet said:
If you are a trainee first you need to ask yourself whether you are ethically/medicolegally comfortable with reading in the OR (imagine yourself on the witness stand answering the plaintiff's attorney's questions about what you were doing when the patient arrested on the table). Then get a sense for your program and your individual attendings' tolerance for reading in the OR (some are OK with it, some are not). Then it had damn well better be something educational or there'll be a lot of eyebrow raising about you in the anesthesia lounge.
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Oh, of course. I wasn't specific enough. I didn't mean during training. I mean like when you're an established attending, your surgeons, nurses, fellow anesthesiologists all have faith in your competence.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
I mean like when you're an established attending, your surgeons, nurses, fellow anesthesiologists all have faith in your competence.
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You'll hear some people say they can pull it off, but I don't think they're really aware of what the surgeons, nurses, and their fellow anesthesiologists really think of their reading in the OR.

Nothing good can come of it. Read at home.
 
For me, for those long stretches of nothingness I think it is helpful to be doing something be it reading, xword, internet, talking to surgeon, teaching resident. It keeps your brain stimulated. In my personal experience, I won't speak for others, if I am just staring at the monitor I will space out completely after a certain point. This is assuming everything is very stable. The data on this subject is pretty vague but at least a few papers i know of showed no difference in attentiveness. You may be right that other people may see it as a problem and legally it could be bad news. What else is new?
 
Would you be willing have an article published in the local paper describing how you like to do crosswords or sudoku or read novels in the OR to keep your brain stimulated? If not don't do it. All those activities will distract you from your job - monitoring patient, managing anesthetic. It doesn't look good in court if someone says "I don't know about that day, but dr x usually does the crosswords during the case". A surgeon's lawsuit went badly when it was revealed to the jury that he routinely made lengthy personal phone calls (? Wireless headset?) during cases.
 
I do during appropriate cases and while on pump during cardiac cases. All appearances aside, I know this practice does not distract me from delivering the safest possible anesthetic.

During residency we had several world reknown anesthesiologists who would review manuscripts or even....lol....malpractice cases for which they were serving as experts while they gave us breaks.

I would love to see a survey of actual practice.
 
I'm in the never, ever, ever camp (at least while I'm the primary provider in the OR). I just pay attention, bs with the surgeon and keep everything on the up and up. Surgeons (and residents, techs, scrub nurses, etc) notice if you aren't paying attention. I hear complaints about it regarding our CRNAs or even my partners. I think it looks lazy, unprofessional, and dangerous. I don't care if you're reading A&A or the funny pages. It just means you're attention is focused elsewhere and you're probably (read: definitely) not doing your job. I'm also wondering what is an "appropriate case" to not pay attention to?

EDIT: I would do it while on pump. Some places, the anesthesia providers leave the room completely while on pump, though, so I guess its all relative.
 
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stonemd said:
Would you be willing have an article published in the local paper describing how you like to do crosswords or sudoku or read novels in the OR to keep your brain stimulated? If not don't do it. All those activities will distract you from your job - monitoring patient, managing anesthetic. It doesn't look good in court if someone says "I don't know about that day, but dr x usually does the crosswords during the case". A surgeon's lawsuit went badly when it was revealed to the jury that he routinely made lengthy personal phone calls (? Wireless headset?) during cases.
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Not to call you out, but the "it doesn't look good in court" explanation isn't a good way to explain things. I understand how litigation can be detrimental to a medical career, but I'm not going to build my practice around "what the courts would think".

By the time training is complete, I think anesthesiologists should be comfortable enough knowing when they can and cannot push the limit with extraneous "distractions".

Be safe. Be responsible. Know your limits.
 
Just get a job where you're supervising CRNAs; then you can read in the lounge.
 
As someone who is far more likely to be a patient than a practicing anesthesiologist in the near future....

I must say I fully support reading in the OR. I mean, I wouldn't want my anesthesiologist to be uncultured (or--heaven forbid!--bored for a few minutes). I'm sure that being on 2% sevo is no danger at all. All those PACs and PVCs can be dealt with later. And a run of Vtach makes the whole OR that much more interesting.

God forbid that I, the patient, should get in the way of you finishing 50 Shades of Gray before your wife.
 
OP, weren't you an English major? I think I remember you saying that in an earlier thread.

I'm connecting the dots... and must agree with the tone of the post above. If you haven't even started med school yet and you're already looking for fields where you can get some reading time in... I'd probably keep that to yourself as much as possible.
 
caligas said:
Im reading this thread in the o.r. Hey what is that squigly line where the ekg is supposed to be?
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Nothing more gas wouldn't solve. Trust me I don't even work in anaesthesia.
 
I'll try another way to explain

Don't read or do crossword puzzles
Because
Surgeons and hospital will not be impressed by your care
You would never want patients to know
Very difficult to argue it could somehow enhance patient care
You would never want your anesthesiologist to be working on puzzles


Patient deaths have occurred from minor distraction in the OR
You really do not want to be the one responsible for morbidity
When you could have been more attentive
 
reading.jpg




http://www.apsf.org/newsletters/html/2004/fall/04reading.htm
 
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punkedoutriffs said:
Like during a light/routine case or whatever, can you straight up bring War & Peace into the OR instead of a crossword/sudoku and just read it? Would that be frowned upon?
Click to expand...

ah..... seriously. I would seriously avoid that. Reading a clinical review or anything regarding medicine/surgery/anesthesia in the OR is o.k. for long boring cases, but IMHO any lay material should be read on your own time. Not in the OR.

I also think that large texts and even ipads are poor form since they can be misunderstood to be some epic Fiction novel or Facebook, respectfully. Reading a review paper on something anesthesia related is o.k. IMO, but only when the case "allows" it.

Just my 2 cents.
 
gasattack3 said:
ah..... seriously. I would seriously avoid that. Reading a clinical review or anything regarding medicine/surgery/anesthesia in the OR is o.k. for long boring cases, but IMHO any lay material should be read on your own time. Not in the OR.

I also think that large texts and even ipads are poor form since they can be misunderstood to be some epic Fiction novel or Facebook, respectfully. Reading a review paper on something anesthesia related is o.k. IMO, but only when the case "allows" it.

Just my 2 cents.
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Ok argument from a professionalism standpoint but from a safety standpoint I dont see how the content or format of the reading matters.
 
caligas said:
Ok argument from a professionalism standpoint but from a safety standpoint I dont see how the content or format of the reading matters.
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Agreed, but the perception is VERY different if anyone got "curious". Perception is often reality, thus I avoid it now and will likely later.
 
I find teaching to be a major distraction in the OR.
 
What about peeing in the or? Behind the drapes, into an empty saline bottle.....while reading the paper.
 
Spinach Dip said:
As someone who is far more likely to be a patient than a practicing anesthesiologist in the near future....

I must say I fully support reading in the OR. I mean, I wouldn't want my anesthesiologist to be uncultured (or--heaven forbid!--bored for a few minutes). I'm sure that being on 2% sevo is no danger at all. All those PACs and PVCs can be dealt with later. And a run of Vtach makes the whole OR that much more interesting.

God forbid that I, the patient, should get in the way of you finishing 50 Shades of Gray before your wife.
Click to expand...

million dollar question, would you rather have the gasman reading a novel by your side, or a crna in her/his top performance danskos ready to call the anest into the room if something goes wrong.
 
Kahreek said:
million dollar question, would you rather have the gasman reading a novel by your side, or a crna in her/his top performance danskos ready to call the anest into the room if something goes wrong.
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Well now that depends on what novel he is reading.
 
Kahreek said:
million dollar question, would you rather have the gasman reading a novel by your side, or a crna in her/his top performance danskos ready to call the anest into the room if something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Danskos are an ankle hazard and I question the judgment of anyone who wears them.
 
Precedex is right. NASA literature from the 50's/60's (which I'm too indifferent to look up right now) showed that response to emergency warning lights was longer when there were long periods without secondary tasks. Meaning stare at a monitor, mentally fall asleep; watch a monitor while filling out paperwork (or sudoku), stay sharp. See, CMS/JCAHO just want to keep us focused with all of their paperwork!
 
Kahreek said:
million dollar question, would you rather have the gasman reading a novel by your side, or a crna in her/his top performance danskos ready to call the anest into the room if something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Depends on:

-Which book it is.
-What the procedure is.
-Whether the crna in question can read an etCO2 and EKG.
-Whether the crna in question is willing to call for help asap, or will try to fix whatever the problem is by themselves.
-How quickly an anesthesiologist could respond if called.
 
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