Can you selectively report transcripts?

[chirodoc]

Just a question but what if one decided not to report going to a particular school b/c of bad grades/withdrawls/etc. In my case they wouldn't help or hurt but I guess I'd have to explain them. I'm thinking of not listing it at all b/c it doesn't matter to my degree attained or the one I'm going after.

Anyone else with experience not reporting every school attended (yes, I know it's an ethical thing but is it if it's used to typecast your academic record inspite of other evidence to the contrary?) to avoid bad transcripts?

Thanks. Just looking for info.

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[toothless rufus]

Dang it! I thought they had super-secret ways of finding these things out! Otherwise I wouln't have sent any of mine! Arrgh!😡

 

[MSgtLou]

Perhaps I am not 100% certain on this, but it may be difficult to do. I know that I transfered transcripts from one school to the next, and the newer school had a small blurp typed onto it. "12 units transfered from SoHK University". I know that for my programs, CASPA will send in their cultivated academic record, and the University would never know, However, once I had been accepted, I will then be required to send official transcripts, and something only a total idiot would not detect were those typed in blurps! Of course, my program states that any dishonesty is automatic grounds for withdrawl of acceptance offer or academic dismissal.

I think the dishonesty factor would "typecast" you a lot more than you wish. My opinion anyway.

You can't be worse than me though, my first year was a 0.97GPA. My current is 3.56 overall, and 3.8 Sciences. I haven't been admitted, but I am on the alternate list. I think they are probably more understanding of poor grades than you give them credit. Of course, I had to get straight "A" in every class since then, but I think that it says a lot about me that I want them to hear. Hope that helps.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Just a question but what if one decided not to report going to a particular school b/c of bad grades/withdrawls/etc. In my case they wouldn't help or hurt but I guess I'd have to explain them. I'm thinking of not listing it at all b/c it doesn't matter to my degree attained or the one I'm going after.

Anyone else with experience not reporting every school attended (yes, I know it's an ethical thing but is it if it's used to typecast your academic record inspite of other evidence to the contrary?) to avoid bad transcripts?

Thanks. Just looking for info.

You could do it, of course. You could do anything you wanted.

However, if your school ever found out they could pull your medical degree and you could loose you medical license. It would be considered fraud.

I wouldn't put it past some backstabbing son of a gun to turn you in later in life just to get ahead.

Just write a kick butt Personal statement that puts a new spin on it; "CHIRODOC- THE WONDER YEARS"

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Bad grades, withdrawals, etc. aren't the end of the world. Come to terms with what you did as a younger, less mature person. Show the adcom how you've learned from it. It speaks to your character.

I sure you can find stories of applicants who have hid their pasts well and managed to make it through. But if you are found out and expelled from medical school for a stunt like this good luck getting back in anywhere.

I'd report all transcripts not only because it's the right thing to do, I just don't think it's worth the gamble. Plus, I'd be miserable throughout all of medical school wondering if/when I'd get that call into the Deans office to learn I was being expelled.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

I thought of trying the same thing, but the real world will not allow it. Yeah, I know what you mean. You're telling yourself what's the difference? You get a second BS, get all A's, put in some volunteer time, do some research, get a slightly above average MCAT, don't reveal past poor performance, and you have a very excellent chance of getting in versus getting a post-bac/masters, get all A's (same classes/materials mind you), be more altruistic than Ghandi, Mother Theresa, or Jesus, find a cure for cancer, score 40-45 on the MCAT, and have no guarantee of getting in because of past records. Yeah, that's an extreme example but that's sometimes how the process feels and is, you have no guarantee of getting in in either case but the former is a nicer option.

 

[blee]

Do not hide *any* of your undergrad transcript(s). Doing so is both unethical and risky. 🙁

 

[DD214_DOC]

There is a national database for the stafford loan that details every school you have attended, so long as you used a stafford loan to pay any portion of the tuition.

Ergo, schools will be able to find out rather quickly if you lied. I know it's an enormous pain to send in every damned transcript. I have one from a grad psych program I withdrew from because I didn't like it, and every time I apply I have to get the school to mail it.

 

[futurederm]

this is a really interesting thread... 😉

 

[Law2Doc]

There is a national database for the stafford loan that details every school you have attended, so long as you used a stafford loan to pay any portion of the tuition.

Ergo, schools will be able to find out rather quickly if you lied. I know it's an enormous pain to send in every damned transcript. I have one from a grad psych program I withdrew from because I didn't like it, and every time I apply I have to get the school to mail it.

Also bear in mind that the relativly limited ability to search for old transcripts over databases today may not be so limited in about 5 years when you are applying for a medical license (technology tends to move quickly). Thus it is conceivable that all schools and licensure committees will have access to national (and perhaps international) academic history databases down the road. If it comes out then that you committed fraud (by omission of grades) to get into med school, you will not be licensed, and will have wasted 4 years of your life and a lot of tuition.

 

[blee]

In all honesty, I would bet that one's chances of getting caught are actually not that great...especially if the applicant had attended a four-year college for the full years and omitted courses taken elsewhere for other reasons.

Still, the consequences of getting caught are IMO totally not worth the risk. Even if it's a matter of having a "respectable" GPA or not, what's the point of getting in if you're eventually caught and stripped of your degree?

 

[MachoPanchoMan]

I've seen the word "fraud" a few times, but I don't know if anybody's mentioned that it's illegal to withold transcript information from the school you hope to attend. If you're applying for a job, the rules might be different state by state. I took some art history classes at a local community college and wasn't going to transfer them to my university until the registrar told me I had to, even though they didn't count toward anything.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've seen the word "fraud" a few times, but I don't know if anybody's mentioned that it's illegal to withold transcript information from the school you hope to attend. If you're applying for a job, the rules might be different state by state. I took some art history classes at a local community college and wasn't going to transfer them to my university until the registrar told me I had to, even though they didn't count toward anything.

I'm not sure I would call it "illegal" in the sense that you are breaking laws and could go to jail, but to the extent you submit AMCAS and secondaries indicating that you have provided them all the information requested, when you know that is not the case, you are committing a fraud by the omission. This probably gives the schools grounds for not admitting you, or if they find out later, dismissing you, and similarly could impact on medical licensing. AMCAS is pretty specific that you need to provide ALL college (and graduate) level coursework transcripts notwithstanding what they counted toward.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

Is there any part that says "knowingly" omit information? Sometimes when records aren't relevant for some application process I omit it.

Aditionally, I received government financed retraining from a community college after the dot com bust and got a certificate, it was more or less vocational training. I probably wouldn't include it. It's not really true undergrad grades if you will. I wonder if you'll get screwed then. Though, I did get perfect 4.0's through out the 1.5 years retraining, but anybody who knows anybody knows community college.

 

[MollyMalone]

Is there any part that says "knowingly" omit information? Sometimes when records aren't relevant for some application process I omit it.

Aditionally, I received government financed retraining from a community college after the dot com bust and got a certificate, it was more or less vocational training. I probably wouldn't include it. It's not really true undergrad grades if you will. I wonder if you'll get screwed then. Though, I did get perfect 4.0's through out the 1.5 years retraining, but anybody who knows anybody knows community college.

You still have to include it. They want anything you've done post-high school, and any college credits from high school. They don't care if you took it at Timbuktu Junior College or Harvard.

 

[QofQuimica]

Is there any part that says "knowingly" omit information? Sometimes when records aren't relevant for some application process I omit it.

Aditionally, I received government financed retraining from a community college after the dot com bust and got a certificate, it was more or less vocational training. I probably wouldn't include it. It's not really true undergrad grades if you will. I wonder if you'll get screwed then. Though, I did get perfect 4.0's through out the 1.5 years retraining, but anybody who knows anybody knows community college.

Community college classes DO have to be included. I even had to include two CC classes I took before I started college.

 

[chan]

I took a couple classes for fun after graduating college (photography, etc...) Before I started my premed post bacc work. Currently I am in a post bacc program different from the university I did my U-grad work and my junior college work leading up to my undergrad degree. The junior college I took the photography class is also seperate from any of those colleges I am attending or have attended previously. I wasnt going to subit the photo class from that junior college because it has no relevance towards any degree or premed work... plus it was credit/ no-credit.

how about that?

 

[MollyMalone]

Yes! You have to include it! AMCAS people are crazy!

From the AMCAS instruction booklet:

One official transcript is required from each U.S., U.S. Territorial, or Canadian post-secondary institution at which you have attempted course work, regardless of whether credit was earned. This includes but is not limited to:
• College-level courses attempted while in high school, even if they did not count toward a degree at any college.
• Colleges at which you originally attempted a course, even if transfer credit was subsequently accepted by another school.
• Colleges where you registered but did not earn any credit (e.g., incompletes, withdrawals, failures, audits, etc.).
• Courses that did not count toward a degree, regardless of whether credit was earned or transferred.
• Extension programs through which you attempted courses, if a separate transcript is provided by the Extension Division.
• Correspondence and home study programs.
• Military education.
• American schools overseas.
• U.S., U.S. Territorial, and Canadian medical schools.
Note also that some universities issue separate transcripts for undergraduate and graduate course work. Please be certain to request an English language transcript from the registrar whenever possible.

 

[chan]

Do you guys think a lot of people do this? Not report unimportant coursework. I wonder if anyone has actually got caught doing this.

 

[QofQuimica]

Do you guys think a lot of people do this? Not report unimportant coursework. I wonder if anyone has actually got caught doing this.

Not if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives hoping that the skeletons stay in the closet. 🙄 It's foolish to not report all of your transcripts when the instructions explicitly tell you that you must do so. Everyone has blemishes in their apps and has made mistakes at some point in their lives. Covering them up never makes them better, and in fact, can make things much, much worse. Just ask Bill Clinton.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

I wouldn't intentionally cover it up.

Bill Clinton at least became president, and he'll still have plenty of work post-presidency. plus, he's probably financially stable to care less about any hidden secrets.

the average joe, not so lucky. if a doc get their license pulled, what else are they going to do? they're experience in nothing else.

now, if the doc became attorney general or some kick ass person finds the cure for cancer and saves lives yearly, i wonder if yanking their license will do any good?

Not if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives hoping that the skeletons stay in the closet. 🙄 It's foolish to not report all of your transcripts when the instructions explicitly tell you that you must do so. Everyone has blemishes in their apps and has made mistakes at some point in their lives. Covering them up never makes them better, and in fact, can make things much, much worse. Just ask Bill Clinton.

 

[QofQuimica]

I wouldn't intentionally cover it up.

Bill Clinton at least became president, and he'll still have plenty of work post-presidency. plus, he's probably financially stable to care less about any hidden secrets.

the average joe, not so lucky. if a doc get their license pulled, what else are they going to do? they're experience in nothing else.

now, if the doc became attorney general or some kick ass person finds the cure for cancer and saves lives yearly, i wonder if yanking their license will do any good?

I don't care how much money the guy has; it's gotta hurt when you're getting impeached for perjury and having your dirty laundry literally aired out in front of the whole world. Mortifying. 😳

 

[Beau Geste]

I don't care how much money the guy has; it's gotta hurt when you're getting impeached for perjury and having your dirty laundry literally aired out in front of the whole world. Mortifying. 😳

Ditto. But apparently this world has different "levels" of lying. Lying under oath is conditional as to what the topic is, right? WRONG.

We should keep politics out of this or it will get ugly! I know I've never been a Clinton supporter so I can't say anything nice about him.... I'll follow my grandma's advice and not say any more.

 

[blee]

Ditto. But apparently this world has different "levels" of lying. Lying under oath is conditional as to what the topic is, right? WRONG.

We should keep politics out of this or it will get ugly! I know I've never been a Clinton supporter so I can't say anything nice about him.... I'll follow my grandma's advice and not say any more.

In order to keep politics out of a conversation, it's best not to bring it up oneself.

Going back to the topic of transcripts -- I've heard of people who've been caught for not reporting grades. It would take a little effort for the AAMC to find an entire transcript from a different school, but it can be done. The more obvious approach to selective reporting -- leaving grades out, reporting grades other than those reported in the transcript -- are caught nearly every time. Thankfully, this is usually done during the AMCAS certification process, which means that any unintentional slip-up will be caught before med schools ever see your application.

 

[Beau Geste]

No offense, but this topic is really a no-brainer. If you are seriously contemplating not including transcripts because you are 1. trying to hide something or 2. too lazy to get them, then I shudder to think what you would do as a physician and have data to report (drugs, payment, etc.).

It may not seem important to some, but it speaks volumes as to a person's ethical decisions. This is why you can ruin a career by doing it!

My father always gave me good advice .... Do as the Angels would do (the ones in heaven, not the baseball team!), and you'll never go wrong.

Chirodoc, I'm not meaning to come down on you, because this question has been asked before. It's one of those questions that you can ask out loud and see the answer for yourself.

 

[Beau Geste]

And sorry, blee, I couldn't help myself.