MD Can you use spaced repition without any form of flashcards/anki ?

[alaaz]

Hello,
So i feel like my retention rate is like 0 , i do remember something if i read it enough times like 5 times and then quickly forget it.

I wqs wondering let's say i have +200 slides to memorize for an exam tomorrow , will it be better
To read the them in a spaced manner , for example the first time at 8 am the second time 2 pm the third time 6 pm and the last time at 10 pm
?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Jojos]

So this is a two part response. The first one is for if you can do spaced rep without flaschards and or anki.
yes you can, programs like anki and others just make it easier. The point is to review the material in a matter which requires you to have active recall (instead of flash cards you can use the feynman method) in time intervals which promote memory retention. The basic spaced rep algorithm is; you study something, you review it that day, review it the next day, review it within a week, review it within a month, within 3,6,12 months. At any point which you cannot recall you go back to the beginning. Totally doable, you just have to keep track of a lot of topics you studied and when which is a pain in the ass.b

as for your question about the slides for the exam tomorrow. Doesn't really work like that. Spaced rep is for the long term, if you want to memorize somethign for tomorrow that is VERY short term. Honestly, although i rarely condone it, cram it! But doing what you mentioned probably won't hurt i guess

 

[Nucleophile1]

Is there a specific reason why you don't want to use Anki or flashcards? Anki is extremely effective when done correctly. Reading the slides, textbook, etc. is passive studying and will not contribute much to long-term retention.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hello,
So i feel like my retention rate is like 0 , i do remember something if i read it enough times like 5 times and then quickly forget it.

I wqs wondering let's say i have +200 slides to memorize for an exam tomorrow , will it be better
To read the them in a spaced manner , for example the first time at 8 am the second time 2 pm the third time 6 pm and the last time at 10 pm
?

I’m glad you asked because I think ANKI obsession on here is out of control. I don’t see any weak students starting ANKI and suddenly seeing a shoot up in grades. I suspect what ANKI is, is a neuroticism spill-over from students who are already good test-takers and use ANKI to pass (waste) their time. What ANKI gets you to do is memorize and reproduce, but it doesn’t teach you to recognize and critically think. I’ve tried it, I’ve used the reddit guides, it’s all very time consuming. The best use of your time is practice questions. Watching lectures (who would have thought) also helps. For questions banks, you can spatially repeat the content through your units in by starting them with your corresponding school units and then keep adding units the the mixed bag of questions you do daily. That’s how you spatially repeat things.

 

[operaman]

I’m glad you asked because I think ANKI obsession on here is out of control. I don’t see any weak students starting ANKI and suddenly see a shoot up in grades. I suspect what ANKI is, is a neuroticism spill-over from students who are already good test-takers and use ANKI to pass their time. What ANKI gets you to do is memorize and reproduce, but it doesn’t reach you to recognize. I’ve tried it, I’ve used the reddit guides, it’s all very time consuming. The best use of your time is practice questions. You can spatially repeat that through your units in by starting them with your corresponding school units and then keep add units the the mixed bag you do daily. That’s how you spatially repeat things.

Agree that anki is not the panacea some people think it to be, but it can form the backbone of a solid study strategy. I have both used it and personally seen it help struggling students turn things around.

I like to think of learning in three parts: factoids, concepts, and application. Neglecting any of them can lead to trouble. Anki is a fantastic method for the factoid knowledge base kind of learning and I especially like it for long term retention. I use it even now as a resident for long term retention of things.

Practice questions are also a critical part of things and once you have built a factual and conceptual knowledge base are certainly one of the most efficient uses of study time. I would put anki up with it when used correctly. Many people don’t understand the long term nature of anki and just use it to cram before a test (I suspect these may be the people you’ve seen who don’t see much benefit). If you use it over the long haul, it becomes more and more efficient by only showing you what you don’t know as well.

 

[Redpancreas]

Agree that anki is not the panacea some people think it to be, but it can form the backbone of a solid study strategy. I have both used it and personally seen it help struggling students turn things around.

I like to think of learning in three parts: factoids, concepts, and application. Neglecting any of them can lead to trouble. Anki is a fantastic method for the factoid knowledge base kind of learning and I especially like it for long term retention. I use it even now as a resident for long term retention of things.

Practice questions are also a critical part of things and once you have built a factual and conceptual knowledge base are certainly one of the most efficient uses of study time. I would put anki up with it when used correctly. Many people don’t understand the long term nature of anki and just use it to cram before a test (I suspect these may be the people you’ve seen who don’t see much benefit). If you use it over the long haul, it becomes more and more efficient by only showing you what you don’t know as well.

This is a really thoughtful analysis. I agree. I suppose I’m looking over the importance of the factoids.

 

[DrDude2004]

Hello,
So i feel like my retention rate is like 0 , i do remember something if i read it enough times like 5 times and then quickly forget it.

I wqs wondering let's say i have +200 slides to memorize for an exam tomorrow , will it be better
To read the them in a spaced manner , for example the first time at 8 am the second time 2 pm the third time 6 pm and the last time at 10 pm
?

You may find it easier to try to look through the high yield slides in the morning then try to explain what you learned to a friend or to the mirror. That way you start to recognize the gaps in understanding. Once you get through the "big picture" high yield information then dedicate your time to the other slides and you will find those subtle details start to make more sense. Spaced learning will not be effective if you have 200 slides to get through for tomorrow.

So the method I am suggesting goes like this - Read - teach - recognize - reread - teach - etc etc

 

[alaaz]

The major problem with anki is time consuming , it is extremly time consuming and it taked a lot of time to make anki cards.

And for the teaching part how can i teach something if i can't even remember what i read 1 hour ago ??

 

[DrDude2004]

The major problem with anki is time consuming , it is extremly time consuming and it taked a lot of time to make anki cards.

And for the teaching part how can i teach something if i can't even remember what i read 1 hour ago ??

The teaching part allows you to focus in on what you can't remember or failed to understand. So that you can go back and try to understand it better.

When you read you should be in quiet, distraction free area. Take your time, read a page at a time or a few slides at a time, take notes and summarize. You should be able to recall the big picture stuff pretty quickly. Details come later. Teach your summary an hour later, if you can't remember anything then go back and start over. You are in med school so I think you have the capacity to understand concepts. Alternatively, talk to your advisers about developing better study habits.

 

[Nucleophile1]

This is a really thoughtful analysis. I agree. I suppose I’m looking over the importance of the factoids.

@operaman post describes how I use Anki. For example, if I am studying immunology, I use Anki to memorize things like Interleukins, Cytokines, etc. Then, I use concept maps for big picture and keep using Anki to keep the little details memorized. Once I know some (not all) of the details, I start using practice questions. When I review my practice questions, I will take factoids from the questions that I missed and put them into Anki as well.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Hey OP, I work a lot with medical education and the learning process, so based on current research literature, this is a quick and dirty summary of what's out there. It has worked great for me and a lot of the students that I tutor at my school.

Learning essentially needs to be broken up into 3 parts - comprehension, retention, and application. It requires all 3 to say that one has truly learned something. From reading your posts, it seems that you're stuck between comprehension and retention. The comprehension portion of learning is what is believed to be the longest and most exhausting part of learning. The evidence for this is that as you learn more and more material related to a certain subject, it may take weeks before you finally see connections (i.e congestive heart failure leading to renal failure, leading to worsening heart failure). If you feel that after looking at your lecture powerpoints that you're struggling to remember what you read an hour ago, it is likely that the information in the way it is presented in the powerpoint is not clicking with you and the best bet would be to find a supplemental resource that will word things differently so it will click with you. Fortunately in this day and age, there are so many fantastic resources out there like sketchymed, osmosis, boards and beyond, etc that you'll likely find something that will help you quickly comprehend your lecture material.

The retention is where spaced repetition comes into play. Studies show it takes about 3 consecutive days on average for us to commit something in our short term into our long term. This does not mean that within 3 days we'll have mastered the material - it means that after 3 days of continuous exposure, the brain is capable of looking at the same material weeks or months later and is familiar with once knowing it. If you find that flashcards are not for you, there are other methods of spaced repetition that work, but require more significant organizational skills. Using a whiteboard to "summarize" what you learned the day before works just as well as flashcards, but requires that you had good notes to be able to double check yourself. This however, becomes very tedious in the long run especially when you have a lot of material so the recommendation for retention is still flashcards. Making flashcards in itself is a form of learning as long as you are not copying and pasting what is from your lectures. Flashcards to be the most effective should be written in your own words and have at most a few facts. The video below is DEFINITELY worth a watch for anyone that plans to make their own flashcards.



Eventually, you'll want to get to being able to actually apply your knowledge and this is where practice questions come in. The reason practice questions are necessary even if you don't feel comfortable with the material is because it forces you to see the information from a new perspective. Up until this point, the learning process has been very singular because you may have seen the material only from the standpoint of your lecture and only from one set of flashcards - the application lets you see how else the problem can be approached and is necessary for true mastery. There are lots of review books and question sources out there that will help with this.

I hope this information helps you to address your issues!

TL;DR - No, you don't need flashcards, but they're recommended. Spaced repetition reading is unfortunately not effective unless you are actively reading. By actively reading, it means you are taking the time while reading to write yourself questions along the way that later when you look at, you should be able to answer.

 

[vit-012]

Hey OP,
... you're stuck between comprehension and retention. The comprehension ... is believed to be the longest and most exhausting part of learning. ...
... you're struggling to remember what you read an hour ago, it is likely that the information, in the way it is presented,is not clicking with you ... the best bet would be to find a supplemental resource that will word things differently...
=== Another reason: one page is way too much; read a smaller chunk; read again and again - until you understand everything. Take a 5min pause - do not think about the text.
After 5min or more, try to recall it by writing notes ( if u are not sure about smthg, do not
think too long ( false memory !!) ===
.......
The retention is where spaced repetition comes into play. ( === Anki or Textbook ).
... it takes about 3 consecutive days to commit something into long term memory.
Anki's algorithm is : 2 tests on First day ( after full comprehension is achieved); Next day;
2d after that; 3-5d after that ; and keeps doubling forever. ===
... there are other methods of spaced repetition , but require significant organizational skills. .... the recommendation for retention is still flashcards. Making flashcards in itself is a form of learning as long as you are not copying and pasting .... Flashcards ... should be written in your own words and have at most a few ( === up to 4 ===) facts.

TL;DR - 'Spaced' ( === Passive==) reading is not effective unless you are actively reading. ... it means you ... write yourself questions ... that later ... you should be able to answer.
=== And here we have come to the Natural solution: writing the Questions on Anki cards
On the Back side of card, we can write the Source; page number; and question number.
That way u spend minimum time upfront to make cards. Later, during review, you may write
the Answer ( ! in your own words !)- if it is short one; or list the major points ....
PS. There are 2 more users who purportedly follow this idea.

I embedded my comments in this post ,between the === signs.
This video is not very helpful. Fast forward to 9min. ( 10 tips).
How to Write Great Flashcards

 

[vit-012]

The teaching part allows you to focus in on what you .... failed to understand. Take your time, read a page at a time or a few slides at a time, take notes and summarize.

1. Read in smaller chunks .
2. If there is s/thg u dont understand, either postpone it or google.... Ignore small details.
3. Wait 5-10 min instead of 60m.
4. Recite it; omit details; address 1 - 2 big points.

 

[Reveler]

Spaced repetition doesn’t = notecards. There are many ways to feed yourself info but I agree with the posters suggesting active learning methods. Stop and explain it to yourself, out loud in your own words periodically. That significantly helps retention. Also, being able to learn in a variety of formats improves comprehension and recall. Also remember that memorizing facts doesn’t always translate to successful application of that knowledge during an exam. That’s why active learning and testing yourself for true comprehension via the above mentioned methods is so crucial.

 

[mehc012]

I generally have two types of cards in my decks - those that reinforce factoids I have to memorize, and those that require conceptual understanding to answer. The former are more common and quick to make; the latter are harder to make, but the making of them is what actually links concepts in my mind.

 

[Aerus]

The only reason to use flashcards is to force yourself to actively recall instead of passively absorb. If you don't care whether you're actively recalling or passively reading (passive learning works for cramming), then spaced repetition can be used for anything, not just flashcards.

 

[mehc012]

The only reason to use flashcards is to force yourself to actively recall instead of passively absorb. If you don't care whether you're actively recalling or passively reading (passive learning works for cramming), then spaced repetition can be used for anything, not just flashcards.

If OP can't recall something an hour after reading it, I'd recommend they try switching to active recall strategies. They might not like it because recall is tough for them at first, but that's what will make it valuable.

 

[Aerus]

If OP can't recall something an hour after reading it, I'd recommend they try switching to active recall strategies. They might not like it because recall is tough for them at first, but that's what will make it valuable.

Active recall should always be the learning strategy, especially given time.

However, I find passive absorption useful for last minute cramming when active recall is too inefficient to be worth the time. However, retaining information that is passively absorbed is very short term, so it is purely for answering multiple choice questions within a short time period.

 

[mehc012]

Active recall should always be the learning strategy, especially given time.

However, I find passive absorption useful for last minute cramming when active recall is too inefficient to be worth the time. However, retaining information that is passively absorbed is very short term, so it is purely for answering multiple choice questions within a short time period.

I agree completely on both counts, I'm just saying that for OP, passive recall doesn't even seem sufficient for cramming if they can't remember anything that they read only an hour later. I wouldn't even bother with it at that point, honestly. Why read something if you won't remember it after an hour?

 

[Menander's Bust]

I think people underestimate how long it takes to learn something new. I did ancient languages before Med school and the saying is you have to see a word in context 20 times before you really know it. I went into Med school with this perspective in kind. So for example there are sketchy medical and Kaplan videos I’ve seen almost 15 times, some more.

Med school is also designed to try to teach you more than you’re capable of really learning in a given amount of time. It’s dumb, no idea why it’s set up that way, just our culture I guess. Why do we spend 4 years learning physics and botany and physical chemistry to literally never use any of it again in Med school? No idea. A 6 year undergrad + grad combined program makes more sense but in the US we’re obsessed with being “well-rounded”, which means we know a little about a lot of things and nothing substantial about anything. Oh well, long digression.

Med school is a redundant curriculum so you just keep learning the same things over and over. It seems like a lot early on, but by 3rd year, 4th year, intern year, etc. you’re like, hey, isn’t this the 12th time I’ve learned this? And it eventually sticks. The thing with medicine though is that you have to know how to do everything to be able to do anything, so for a long time it feels like you know nothing.

For you I’d say you need to experiment and find a method of learning to where you walk away and think, Yes! That really stuck! It could be videos, reading, note taking, lectures, drawing, flashcards, group discussion. It’s different for every person and often is even different from subject to subject. You have to experiment. And don’t be afraid to watch a video 8 times until you get it.

 

[clamsauce]

You don't need anki if you continually recite facts to yourself from reading/connecting previous concepts and data to new. But you can succeed either way. using this technique i made 95% mcat and 90% plus usmle. Keep it simple. 40/60 rule, 40% time reading, 60% time reciting. Anki can be great but everybody has different intrinsic forgetting curves and it varies by subject. Read make it stick and tear it up in medical school. I did.

 

[Jesus1]

You can actually do really well by just finding well written, HY material that covers the universe of what you're being tested on. Start early and read this "resource" over and over again. The 3rd/4th read is much quicker than the first 2 and you'll learn something new each time. In addition, spend some time doing and thoroughly reviewing "good" practice Qs. You don't need to do thousands of questions to be successful. However, thoroughly reviewing "good" ones can get you to your destination with regards to understanding material, spotting trends, and getting your test taking strategy skills up to snuff. The more you know, the better you'll perform.