Canadian SGU conundrum

[QuebecFlunkie]

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I'm a 26 year old graduate student from Quebec. During my undergrad years, I managed to get relatively good grades at a **** university, meaning that my A- average translates to a 3.3/4.0 GPA. I then sat the MCAT, and got 10VR-11PS-13BS, which I understand is slightly above average. Some time after that I undertook a master's degree where I managed to get a GPA of 4.0.

Medical schools in Quebec are not made for graduate applicants. I managed to limbo under the grade cutoff this year at one of them on account of that particular school being the only one in the province to recognize the existence of graduate studies, only to be rejected during the CV review, seeing as I've basically done nothing except study, and work to pay for my education my entire life. There were 8 slots open for people with graduate degrees for the entire province, and apparently I was set up against returning professors and other people who understandably have much more interesting things on their CV than a 26 year old grad student that's worked for the army.

Getting into med school in Quebec would basically require me to undertake another undergraduate degree, which is in my eyes a total waste of time and money, and is thus not a viable approach to take. Last year, I applied to SGU, and got in. Seeing as I hadn't completed my master's at the time, I manages to have my application deferred another year.

The problem with my current situation is that A) I don't think I really understand the ramifications of graduating as a student of SGU in order to come back to practice in Canada. Will I be considered an IMG? Or will I be able to apply to CaRMS right away? I have complete faith in my ability to achieve outstanding grades at SGU, so I don't think that aspect will be much of a problem. B) The other facet of the problem is that my family is broke. I myself have amassed around 100k in liquidities, but other than that any possible cosigner I have has basically zero assets. I understand I am looking at about 300k in total costs for SGU, and even if I do manage to get scholarships and bursaries that's pretty steep for someone without valid cosigners.

Basically, I'm posting this thread in order to get some feedback on my future course of action. Should I go to SGU? Should I try my luck next year somewhere else in Canada (and be stuck as an out-of-province applicant everywhere?)? Should I try for a lower-tier US med school (in order to solve any IMG-related problems that would arise from the carribean approach)? Should I do something else?

I know a lot of you have an absurdly large amount of knowledge about these issues, and I would appreciate your feedback.

 

[Medstart108]

I'm a 26 year old graduate student from Quebec. During my undergrad years, I managed to get relatively good grades at a **** university, meaning that my A- average translates to a 3.3/4.0 GPA. I then sat the MCAT, and got 10VR-11PS-13BS, which I understand is slightly above average. Some time after that I undertook a master's degree where I managed to get a GPA of 4.0.

Medical schools in Quebec are not made for graduate applicants. I managed to limbo under the grade cutoff this year at one of them on account of that particular school being the only one in the province to recognize the existence of graduate studies, only to be rejected during the CV review, seeing as I've basically done nothing except study, and work to pay for my education my entire life. There were 8 slots open for people with graduate degrees for the entire province, and apparently I was set up against returning professors and other people who understandably have much more interesting things on their CV than a 26 year old grad student that's worked for the army.

Getting into med school in Quebec would basically require me to undertake another undergraduate degree, which is in my eyes a total waste of time and money, and is thus not a viable approach to take. Last year, I applied to SGU, and got in. Seeing as I hadn't completed my master's at the time, I manages to have my application deferred another year.

The problem with my current situation is that A) I don't think I really understand the ramifications of graduating as a student of SGU in order to come back to practice in Canada. Will I be considered an IMG? Or will I be able to apply to CaRMS right away? I have complete faith in my ability to achieve outstanding grades at SGU, so I don't think that aspect will be much of a problem. B) The other facet of the problem is that my family is broke. I myself have amassed around 100k in liquidities, but other than that any possible cosigner I have has basically zero assets. I understand I am looking at about 300k in total costs for SGU, and even if I do manage to get scholarships and bursaries that's pretty steep for someone without valid cosigners.

Basically, I'm posting this thread in order to get some feedback on my future course of action. Should I go to SGU? Should I try my luck next year somewhere else in Canada (and be stuck as an out-of-province applicant everywhere?)? Should I try for a lower-tier US med school (in order to solve any IMG-related problems that would arise from the carribean approach)? Should I do something else?

I know a lot of you have an absurdly large amount of knowledge about these issues, and I would appreciate your feedback.

You will be considered an IMG. In Quebec, they have special rules which from what I hear requires you to take at least a year off. If you apply to other provinces, you don't, but the competition in other provinces is usually much higher.

I recommend going to a lower tier US med school or DO school or going for the rest of Canada although with a 3.3. UG GPA those chances are low. However, if you really can't wait, don't care or want to become a family doc and don't mind return of service and likely taking a year off for Quebec or doing your residency in the US, SGU is not a bad option.

I'm not sure if SGU will take you if you don't have a co-signer who can prove assets, but either way its a pretty big risk I would recommend first trying one more year of broad applications across North America before going to SGU.

 

[QuebecFlunkie]

Thank you for your response, Medstart. Isn't my adjusted GPA is going to be way too low for me to get admitted to an US med/do school? Also, what do you mean by return of service/taking a year off?

And in any case, going to an US med school is probably going to cost around the same thing as SGU, which basically puts me in the same situation financially, won't it?

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[Medstart108]

Thank you for your response, Medstart. Isn't my adjusted GPA is going to be way too low for me to get admitted to an US med/do school? Also, what do you mean by return of service/taking a year off?

And in any case, going to an US med school is probably going to cost around the same thing as SGU, which basically puts me in the same situation financially, won't it?

Yes, actually your GPA is probably too low for US MD school, but maybe not for DO schools. Even if the cost is around the same with the Caribbean your chance of getting residency is lower so the risk of taking on so much debt is reduced if you got into a US DO school for example.

You won't be able to apply to CaRMS straight away for Quebec, you won't be able to directly go from med school to residency, thats what i meant by taking a year off. If you apply to other provinces you should be able to go directly from med school to residency and same if you apply to the US. So, it looks like if you can get the loans, and DO school isn't feasible go for SGU, but if you really want to do residency in Quebec, you won't be able to go directly from med school to residency, but if you don't mind doing residency in US or the rest of Canada you can go direct from med school to residency.

Another thing, SGU is really one of the best Carib schools but its also the most expensive, if cost or loans are an issue for you consider cheaper schools that still have good rotations, an alumni base in the US and 50 state certification.

Consider SABA? - It seems to be a lot cheaper, it is one of the big 4 (meaning it has 50 state accreditation) and it is quite popular with Canadians.
https://www.saba.edu/saba/index.php/admissions/financial-information

 

[bambi]

Australia? Still IMG but less stigma.

 

[Medstart108]

Australia is also an option but the negative would be that its also very expensive, and at least with the Carib you can do your rotations in the US making ur chance of matching somewhere in North America higher.

 

[bambi]

I would question whether graduating from the Carribean would give you a higher chance of matching in the US than Australia other than maybe in terms of connections and most people wont make great ones. Caribbean schools only exist for people that didn't get in at home so some people will always question them/the quality of education, Australian schools aren't like that. There are always electives you can do in the US too.

 

[Medstart108]

I would question whether graduating from the Carribean would give you a higher chance of matching in the US than Australia other than maybe in terms of connections and most people wont make great ones. Caribbean schools only exist for people that didn't get in at home so some people will always question them/the quality of education, Australian schools aren't like that. There are always electives you can do in the US too.

With the Caribbean you are getting 2 years of rotations vs 8 weeks from Australia unless you are at Ochsner.

Also, if you've seen the MCAT scores and GPAs some top Australian unis are taking for medical students its pretty obvious that the fees they can charge do make a major difference. The fact still remains that most Australian medical students from North America are those who could not get in in their own countries. So its not as if someone from Canada or the US who graduates from USyd or Melbourne is going to get ooos and ahhs from program directors who know that the schools will take 3.5 GPA and 28 MCAT candidates who in Canada couldn't get into any medical school.

The quality of education in Australia will definitely be better than what you get in the Caribbean, especially the poor quality clinical education you will get being sent to a different cash strapped hospital every few months.

This guy won't be able to take the loans necessary for Australia and if he does manage it its questionable whether or not its worth it. You lose an extra year by going to Australia just through the semester differences.

I know i'm listing all the negatives and there are many positives but in my opinion because of his financial situation there is no point considering Australia.

 

[bambi]

Of course US students who go to Australia go because they couldn't get in at home, my point was they aren't the reason for the existence of the schools like in the Caribbean. Lots of places, the UK for example, technically only allow 8 weeks of electives elsewhere but there are ways around it to get more time. Also students from Australian schools will likely do their electives at better US schools/hospitals than Caribbean students so any connections will likely be better. As we both said Australian education is better, I expect a lot of places will prefer students from these schools for that reason alone, not all, but some.

How expensive is Australia? SGU isn't exactly cheap!

 

[PteFabulous]

Of course US students who go to Australia go because they couldn't get in at home, my point was they aren't the reason for the existence of the schools like in the Caribbean. Lots of places, the UK for example, technically only allow 8 weeks of electives elsewhere but there are ways around it to get more time. Also students from Australian schools will likely do their electives at better US schools/hospitals than Caribbean students so any connections will likely be better. As we both said Australian education is better, I expect a lot of places will prefer students from these schools for that reason alone, not all, but some.

How expensive is Australia? SGU isn't exactly cheap!

If you really want to match in the US why would you take the chance of only doing 8 guaranteed weeks of clinicals in the US, instead of 2 full years guaranteed in the US? Honestly, I seriously doubt that Australian school do electives at better hospitals then Caribbean students, and even if they do who cares? The match is a numbers game, as an IMG you have to apply as broadly as possible and still will only end up with maybe half the number of interviews as you were hoping for. Having more US clinical time at different programs IMO is more important then having one or two clinicals at a prestigious program.

 

[bambi]

If you really want to match in the US why would you take the chance of only doing 8 guaranteed weeks of clinicals in the US, instead of 2 full years guaranteed in the US? Honestly, I seriously doubt that Australian school do electives at better hospitals then Caribbean students, and even if they do who cares? The match is a numbers game, as an IMG you have to apply as broadly as possible and still will only end up with maybe half the number of interviews as you were hoping for. Having more US clinical time at different programs IMO is more important then having one or two clinicals at a prestigious program.

If it was me I am not sure which I would take but a better quality of education in general would impact my decision. Plenty of people in the UK at least have managed to do 6 months abroad. Not 2 years but still a decent amount of time. US residencies like people to have rotated in the US at least partly for systems reasons, a few months is long enough to figure out the system differences enough to do well as an intern.

Of course a lot of people from Australian schools will do electives at better hospitals than Caribbean students. Those from 1st world countries doing electives in the US tend to go to the big names, not random sketchy hospitals that a lot of Caribbean students are forced to rotate at. It is a generalisation but people don't bother to fly half way around the world for a few weeks to go somewhere where they might not do/learn anything and a lot of foreign schools have links to certain US schools.

A lot of the match is about numbers of course but connections help and in those cases rotating at better hospitals means letters from bigger names.

I think you can argue it either way and it will just come down to the preference of individual PDs.