SGU vs MUA 2023 ; carribean MD school

[roc7485]

Hi,

I am currently applying to SGU and MUA and I am hoping to begin this August. I have heard many great things about both schools.

For MUA, I have heard that the small class sizes is an advantage as well as their strict prep for USMLE. However, I have heard that their USMLE pass rates are skewed because their block exams require 85% to pass.

For SGU, I have heard great things about their residency placements, how many students get into competitive residenceis. I have also heard that SGU does not have block exams, and that their pass rates are lower than MUA, around 70%.
Although, i dont know much about basic sciences and the curriculum, and how well one must prepare to get through basic sciences.

Me personally, I would like to go to a school that provides me clear guidance on how to get through basic sciences. I am willing to put the work in, I would just like to hear from others about their experience at each school. As well as how exams are like and if they are meant to make you fail or truly help you prepare for USMLE.

Thank you everyone.

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[DarkHorizon]

Neither. Apply to US/Canadian schools.

 

[roc7485]

I understand your point of view, but I come from a background of IMG graduates. My family, my friends, everyone is IMG. As of now, this is my decision and what I feel most confident in succeeding in.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I understand your point of view, but I come from a background of IMG graduates. My family, my friends, everyone is IMG. As of now, this is my decision and what I feel most confident in succeeding in.

That’s a silly reason to go IMG. Get your application up to par and roll the dice. Don’t fold before it even begins. I would at least apply 3 times to US/Canadian school before even considering offshore. I’d probably go PA or NP before I do that honestly.

 

[Gambino.]

SGU (now that they have their ECFMG recognition with GMDC), Ross, or AUC if you go carib. Don't entertain any other school.

 

[roc7485]

SGU (now that they have their ECFMG recognition with GMDC), Ross, or AUC if you go carib. Don't entertain any other school.

Thank you Gambino, I am hoping to matriculate into SGU's charter term program. I heard it is tense and difficult but I am willing to put the work in. I know no matter what school I decide on, hard work is a priority.

 

[Osminog]

I understand your point of view, but I come from a background of IMG graduates. My family, my friends, everyone is IMG. As of now, this is my decision and what I feel most confident in succeeding in.

The fact that those around you made poor decisions doesn’t mean you have to make a poor decision too. There has literally never been a worse time to attend a for-profit medical school in the Caribbean. Everybody enters these programs thinking that they’re hard workers and have what it takes to survive on the island—but huge proportions of the entering classes eventually flunk out.

I talked to a fourth-year MUA student recently, and his class has had 50-60% attrition. SGU’s attrition rate is estimated to be closer to 40%, which is still horrific. At either school, it’s a Herculean undertaking to match into anything outside of primary care and pathology.

I hope you take the time to reflect on your goals and consider the enormous risks of this pursuit. This is about your life, not the past choices of your friends and family members. Best of luck.

 

[roc7485]

The fact that those around you made poor decisions doesn’t mean you have to make a poor decision too. There has literally never been a worse time to attend a for-profit medical school in the Caribbean. Everybody enters these programs thinking that they’re hard workers and have what it takes to survive on the island—but huge proportions of the entering classes eventually flunk out.

I talked to a fourth-year MUA student recently, and his class has had 50-60% attrition. SGU’s attrition rate is estimated to be closer to 40%, which is still horrific. At either school, it’s a Herculean undertaking to match into anything outside of primary care and pathology.

I hope you take the time to reflect on your goals and consider the enormous risks of this pursuit. This is about your life, not the past choices of your friends and family members. Best of luck.

Thanks, Osminog, I definitely appreciate your insight. I do agree that Carribean schools have immensely changed, in terms of their goals to educate students vs to gain profits. It definitely is a lot to consider, I will have to weigh the pros and cons in terms of my career and personal goals.

 

[roc7485]

I'm planning on taking it in August. I will be spending 3 months full-time. Shooting for a 512.

 

[S R K]

I'm planning on taking it in August. I will be spending 3 months full-time. Shooting for a 512.

You want to start med school in August and take the MCAT in August?

 

[xffan624]

I'm planning on taking it in August. I will be spending 3 months full-time. Shooting for a 512.

You want to start med school in August and take the MCAT in August?

So your plan is to work hard for 3 straight months to get a competitive MCAT (which you don't need for those schools) and then leap into MS1 coursework at SGU or MUA? Better to cut out two of those months, get a lower MCAT, and at least prepare yourself to hit the ground running instead of burning out before you even get there. Or even better yet, reconsider the Caribbean plan and apply the hard work to getting into a US school. Your plan is basically equivalent to building a building using hand tools instead of using heavy equipment. Both might get the job done, but one is infinitely harder and will probably build a crappier building (that might collapse on you).

 

[Ryuzaki]

Hi,

I am currently applying to SGU and MUA and I am hoping to begin this August. I have heard many great things about both schools.

For MUA, I have heard that the small class sizes is an advantage as well as their strict prep for USMLE. However, I have heard that their USMLE pass rates are skewed because their block exams require 85% to pass.

For SGU, I have heard great things about their residency placements, how many students get into competitive residenceis. I have also heard that SGU does not have block exams, and that their pass rates are lower than MUA, around 70%.
Although, i dont know much about basic sciences and the curriculum, and how well one must prepare to get through basic sciences.

Me personally, I would like to go to a school that provides me clear guidance on how to get through basic sciences. I am willing to put the work in, I would just like to hear from others about their experience at each school. As well as how exams are like and if they are meant to make you fail or truly help you prepare for USMLE.

Thank you everyone.

SGU, if you have to go there

 

[luvmydoc]

Thanks, Osminog, I definitely appreciate your insight. I do agree that Carribean schools have immensely changed, in terms of their goals to educate students vs to gain profits. It definitely is a lot to consider, I will have to weigh the pros and cons in terms of my career and personal goals.

I think the best advice is to find someone who went to a Caribbean school and successfully navigated the process. There are so many "Debbie Downers" who love to slam any program that is not in the U.S. Will the journey be more difficult? Yes, it will. My daughter's journey began when she talked with a Hematology resident from a prominent U.S. hospital who attended Ross. It was becoming clear that attending Med School in the U.S. would not be an option. Eventually, my daughter chose SGU. She will tell you the students who were attending SGU were there for a host of reasons. Poor MCAT scores, Canadian citizens, GPA's under 3.5 or students who only wanted MD and were not willing to go DO - these were a few of the reasons. My daughter has graduated, passed all her USMLE's and is loving her residency. Was it a walk in the park? Nope! Would she do it again if it were the only way to reach her dream of becoming a Physician? Yes! Would she have chosen a DO school if she was accepted into one of the many she applied to? Yes! However, there were DO schools that she did not prefer to SGU. Do the math to see what the cost comparisons might be. My daughter's costs are pretty darn similar to her peers who studied in the US. These forums are filled with folks who love to slam schools that they know very little about. If you have the ability - the intellectual and emotional intelligence to complete the rigorous coursework and the Caribbean is your only option, it just might be the right path to becoming a physician. There are recent graduates from Ross, SGU, SABA and AUC all over the US. Find one and they will honestly share their experience and answer your questions.

 

[Gambino.]

I think the best advice is to find someone who went to a Caribbean school and successfully navigated the process. There are so many "Debbie Downers" who love to slam any program that is not in the U.S. Will the journey be more difficult? Yes, it will. My daughter's journey began when she talked with a Hematology resident from a prominent U.S. hospital who attended Ross. It was becoming clear that attending Med School in the U.S. would not be an option. Eventually, my daughter chose SGU. She will tell you the students who were attending SGU were there for a host of reasons. Poor MCAT scores, Canadian citizens, GPA's under 3.5 or students who only wanted MD and were not willing to go DO - these were a few of the reasons. My daughter has graduated, passed all her USMLE's and is loving her residency. Was it a walk in the park? Nope! Would she do it again if it were the only way to reach her dream of becoming a Physician? Yes! Would she have chosen a DO school if she was accepted into one of the many she applied to? Yes! However, there were DO schools that she did not prefer to SGU. Do the math to see what the cost comparisons might be. My daughter's costs are pretty darn similar to her peers who studied in the US. These forums are filled with folks who love to slam schools that they know very little about. If you have the ability - the intellectual and emotional intelligence to complete the rigorous coursework and the Caribbean is your only option, it just might be the right path to becoming a physician. There are recent graduates from Ross, SGU, SABA and AUC all over the US. Find one and they will honestly share their experience and answer your questions.

It's good to see both sides but if you only speak with people that pass you get survivor bias. At the end of the day, about 30-40% of the students from SGU/AUC/Ross fail out. It is just as important to speak with the carib physicians as it is to speak with people now saddled with 200k+ worth of student loans with no way to pay it off. I'm a current clinical student at Ross, I've seen friends and classmates kicked out now scrambling for what to do next.

Carib isn't as bad as most SDN posts make it out to be but it also isn't great as some may say. It's a calculated risk relying on the prospective student having done proper research regarding attrition, career prospects, and calculating if the risk is worth the reward for their circumstance. The only issue is if the student believes all the propaganda the schools throw at them (90+% match rate with no mention of attrition).

 

[Highlander455]

Takes a very particular person to be successful in Caribbean med schools. Seems like Luvmydoc's daughter was one of them. Requires intelligence, adaptability, determination, financial resources, ability to learn independently, and a good support system. Gambino is right about the attrition rates. On the up side, if you make it through one of the top Caribbean schools, you've got almost as good a chance of matching as a US grad. However, you're more likely to match to primary care even with great step scores, and more likely to match to an IMG friendly program. If you have the right personal qualities and you're happy with that, it can be a viable route, but as many have said, it is far more challenging than US MD or DO schools, and should not be undertaken lightly or withought a lot of thought and a solid understanding of the risks and all that is involved.

 

[VaultArmitage]

...On the up side, if you make it through one of the top Caribbean schools, you've got almost as good a chance of matching as a US grad...

I rarely comment on Carribean matters but this is blatant misinformation. Look at the NRMP match data from last year. Table 4 has match rate broken down by applicant status. MD Senior match rate was 92.9%, DO Senior was 91.3%, US IMG Senior was 61.2%.

NRMP Match Data 2022

And those are the people that made it through the abysmal attrition rate. To say that you'll have "almost as good a chance of matching" is simply untrue. I'm not knocking anyone who goes the Carribean route because everyone has a different path but you cannot ignore the data.

 

[Highlander455]

VaultArmitage. You need to read more carefully. I clearly said "one of the top Caribbean schools." The data you quote is a) not for Caribbean schools, it's for all US IMGs regardless of where they studied, and, b) not for top Caribbean schools. SGU posts a 3 yr match rate of 93%, Ross has 96% and AUC also has 96%. These rates are comparable to US match rates. As these statistics must be reported to the US Department of Education to maintain eligibility for Federal loans, I tend to view them as trustworthy. I stand by my original statement.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fsapartners.ed.gov/sites/default/files/2021-03/FSHandbookCh3.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwijnOmgwOD9AhUtl2oFHeuGAmwQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1yU2XV6jYmasnzlQC_JJyD

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

VaultArmitage. You need to read more carefully. I clearly said "one of the top Caribbean schools." The data you quote is a) not for Caribbean schools, it's for all US IMGs regardless of where they studied, and, b) not for top Caribbean schools. SGU posts a 3 yr match rate of 93%, Ross has 96% and AUC also has 96%. These rates are comparable to US match rates. As these statistics must be reported to the US Department of Education to maintain eligibility for Federal loans, I tend to view them as trustworthy. I stand by my original statement.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fsapartners.ed.gov/sites/default/files/2021-03/FSHandbookCh3.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwijnOmgwOD9AhUtl2oFHeuGAmwQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1yU2XV6jYmasnzlQC_JJyD

I won’t even begin to write/talk about how misleading and off this post/numbers reported are….

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'm in an academic program but rotate with residents from a community program with IMGs, caribbean and the like. Now that we're PGY2s, people talk about their scores more openly. I'll just say thank god I didn't go abroad. My dumba$$ would've been stuck there.

 

[Highlander455]

I won’t even begin to write/talk about how misleading and off this post/numbers reported are….

Please, talk. The numbers I provided are from these school's websites and I supported why I believe they are credible with a reference. If you have different or more accurate numbers please share them along with references to their source and credibility. I'm sure readers of this post would appreciate being informed through dialogue about these issues.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Not worth my time.. you can believe that SGU and Ross match at 93%(the USMD match rate isn’t even that high) all you want…

 

[Ryuzaki]

Not worth my time.. you can believe that SGU and Ross match at 93%(the USMD match rate isn’t even that high) all you want…

Honestly, people need to factor in a common starting point regarding the attrition rates. A lot of schools like this juice their numbers because their starting points are not the same. For instance, my school boasts "an X% graduates seeking residency have secured..." — operative word being seeking residency. This does not include anyone who flunked out basic sciences, couldn't pass step 1, failed out of rotation, couldn't pass step 2 cs or otherwise.

For the overall, I would recommend SGU because they have the money to secure spots for clinical rotations. In about a few years, this is going to become even more apparent as the US schools have gotten rid of the Step 1 as a number.

 

[S R K]

Honestly, people need to factor in a common starting point regarding the attrition rates. A lot of schools like this juice their numbers because their starting points are not the same. For instance, my school boasts "an X% graduates seeking residency have secured..." — operative word being seeking residency. This does not include anyone who flunked out basic sciences, couldn't pass step 1, failed out of rotation, couldn't pass step 2 cs or otherwise.

For the overall, I would recommend SGU because they have the money to secure spots for clinical rotations. In about a few years, this is going to become even more apparent as the US schools have gotten rid of the Step 1 as a number.

Ross boasts a "residency attainment rate" and not a match rate. As someone who just graduated and matched from Ross, ive seen a considerable number of people who got positions outside of the match (prematch and SOAP) and Ross includes these people when they come up with that 93% statistic. There are a small number of IM and FM programs who give prematch offers (I actually turned one down). I would argue that 5-10% of people from Ross took these offers and perhaps another 5-10% were able to get a spot from SOAP. No one knows what the actual "match rate" is from Ross.

Edit: From my understanding they also don't include reapplicants in that percentage, just people who have graduated this year and last year who applied first time.