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632703
So much judgement without knowing the whole story...
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What have you done since 2008? What fields are you trying to get into? Have you talked with your prior residency program as to the possibility of coming back at all even after all this time? Would your old PD be able to give you a good letter?
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These questions may feel very personal, so it's ok to be vague on questions if you feel you need to. More info can certainly help us give advice, though. What have you been doing since the ER job? What exactly do you mean by complications with the license?
As far as a letter from your prior program, future programs will want a letter from them. It sounds like the best you can hope for with them is that they said you were there for 8 months and performed satisfactory during that time. Future programs may even want to call that PD.
For applying to residency again, you will have multiple red flags - the number of years since med school, the license issues, the period of time away from medicine, leaving in the middle of your prior residency and the issues surrounding that. You will need to be very open to going anywhere and to any program to try and get a spot. Consider things like Occupational or Preventative medicine. You could probably get your intern year to count for those and they would allow you to get board certified. You will need to apply very broadly, basically every FM, psych, OM, and PM programs out there that might even consider you. You may need to contact these programs as well to see if they would consider you given those red flags that might screen you out from them even seeing your application. @aProgDirector and @IMPD may have some thoughts that could help as well.
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Oiy. Applying broadly is not likely to help here. Your application is not just red-flagged, it's on fire with problems.
If your desire is to complete training, you are going to need an advocate who will vouch for you with a PD and will attest to your desire and commitment to finish.
Applying to 300+ programs is a lot of money that might be better spent on a 3-6 month period working with a program so that they can get to know you personally. If you are not geographically limited, you should start networking with your previous PD/DIO or, failing that, cold calling nearby programs. You need to get in front of someone and present them a plan to prove yourself.
Your story presents a huge risk to a program and I would recommend the personal approach. You should be aware that you'll need to sell yourself as an asset to the program and not just ask them for a favor. Asking for favors is not likely to work.
If your desire is to complete training, you are going to need an advocate who will vouch for you with a PD and will attest to your desire and commitment to finish.
Applying to 300+ programs is a lot of money that might be better spent on a 3-6 month period working with a program so that they can get to know you personally. If you are not geographically limited, you should start networking with your previous PD/DIO or, failing that, cold calling nearby programs. You need to get in front of someone and present them a plan to prove yourself.
Your story presents a huge risk to a program and I would recommend the personal approach. You should be aware that you'll need to sell yourself as an asset to the program and not just ask them for a favor. Asking for favors is not likely to work.
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I agree that there are details missing that make it difficult to give you clear advice. It certainly does sound like you had some personal tragedies during your training, and if taking time to be with your family is what you needed to do then I certainly respect that.
1. You mention that you left your program. Did you leave with a good performance? Some people have personal issues arise, and decide they need to leave. Others have issues, those issue affect their performance, and then they leave / fail out. If the latter, you have a bigger problem.
2. You mention license issues. If you lost a license, I'd need to know why to advise you. As an AMG with 12+ months of training, you should be able to get an unrestricted full license in most states. If your license was taken away, then that's a HUGE red flag as there is no guarantee that you'd get a new license for a residency program. If you have a license but lost your job because of board certification issues (or something else), then you'd be able to work and get clinical experience at a program as IMPD suggests. Most IMG's can't do this because they don't have any US clinical training and so can't get a license.
3. I'm not sure why you waited so long -- it would have been much better to get back into training much earlier than this.
4. You might need to target a prelim IM program, or a prelim GS program. In your case, a prelim GS year might get you back on track -- good clinical experience, which you could use to springboard into other fields. For most fields you might be interested in, you're probably going to need to repeat your PGY-1.
5. You ask how you find spots outside of ERAS. That's complicated. For programs that classically start in PGY-2 as an Advanced match (like some Anesthesia, Radiology, Derm, PM&R, etc) any open PGY-2 spots to start July 2015 will now be in the match, as "R" positions. You apply for them just like you apply for any other program, and can rank them in any order. If a program has a spot that is open now and looking for an off cycle start, you simply have to contact programs individually. Some fields have a PD website where openings are listed, many do not. Some programs who have an off cycle position will simply review their ERAS apps, look for people who could start early (already graduated), and consider interviewing them and starting them off cycle.
So:
1. If you have a license, you're in a much better spot.
2. If you lost a license, that's a huge problem unless there's a really benign explanation.
3. You need to get back into clinical work, hopefully with your license, hopefully at a local program where you can get some GME experience.
4. You could consider contacting your prior medical school to see if they can help, but they often can't.
5. You might need to apply both to your "choice" programs and to some prelim programs, including prelim GS programs, to get your foot back in the door.
1. You mention that you left your program. Did you leave with a good performance? Some people have personal issues arise, and decide they need to leave. Others have issues, those issue affect their performance, and then they leave / fail out. If the latter, you have a bigger problem.
2. You mention license issues. If you lost a license, I'd need to know why to advise you. As an AMG with 12+ months of training, you should be able to get an unrestricted full license in most states. If your license was taken away, then that's a HUGE red flag as there is no guarantee that you'd get a new license for a residency program. If you have a license but lost your job because of board certification issues (or something else), then you'd be able to work and get clinical experience at a program as IMPD suggests. Most IMG's can't do this because they don't have any US clinical training and so can't get a license.
3. I'm not sure why you waited so long -- it would have been much better to get back into training much earlier than this.
4. You might need to target a prelim IM program, or a prelim GS program. In your case, a prelim GS year might get you back on track -- good clinical experience, which you could use to springboard into other fields. For most fields you might be interested in, you're probably going to need to repeat your PGY-1.
5. You ask how you find spots outside of ERAS. That's complicated. For programs that classically start in PGY-2 as an Advanced match (like some Anesthesia, Radiology, Derm, PM&R, etc) any open PGY-2 spots to start July 2015 will now be in the match, as "R" positions. You apply for them just like you apply for any other program, and can rank them in any order. If a program has a spot that is open now and looking for an off cycle start, you simply have to contact programs individually. Some fields have a PD website where openings are listed, many do not. Some programs who have an off cycle position will simply review their ERAS apps, look for people who could start early (already graduated), and consider interviewing them and starting them off cycle.
So:
1. If you have a license, you're in a much better spot.
2. If you lost a license, that's a huge problem unless there's a really benign explanation.
3. You need to get back into clinical work, hopefully with your license, hopefully at a local program where you can get some GME experience.
4. You could consider contacting your prior medical school to see if they can help, but they often can't.
5. You might need to apply both to your "choice" programs and to some prelim programs, including prelim GS programs, to get your foot back in the door.
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Also you should probably delete all your posts, given that googling "stacy elise ambien" comes up with your full name, the multiple news stories on your arrest, and the news story that you were accused of falsifying your urine sample and that you submitted a synthetic urine substitute for testing and had documents on how to fake a urine test on your person...
I'm gonna say you will have a very hard time finding a position.
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Also you should probably delete all your posts, given that googling "stacy elise ambien" comes up with your full name, the multiple news stories on your arrest, and the news story that you were accused of falsifying your urine sample and that you submitted a synthetic urine substitute for testing and had documents on how to fake a urine test on your person...
I'm gonna say you will have a very hard time finding a position.
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Also you should probably delete all your posts, given that googling "stacy elise ambien" comes up with your full name, the multiple news stories on your arrest, and the news story that you were accused of falsifying your urine sample and that you submitted a synthetic urine substitute for testing and had documents on how to fake a urine test on your person...
I'm gonna say you will have a very hard time finding a position.
Wow...
And to warn you, Program directors and Interviewers DO google!
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Isn't posting a persons personal info against TOU rules ?
Also you should probably delete all your posts, given that googling "stacy elise ambien" comes up with your full name, the multiple news stories on your arrest, and the news story that you were accused of falsifying your urine sample and that you submitted a synthetic urine substitute for testing and had documents on how to fake a urine test on your person...
I'm gonna say you will have a very hard time finding a position.
I try to give ppl the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps she made a mistake but I think judging so harshly is not cool. At the end of the day we are doctors and should have compassion.
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I originally posted it as a heads up to her that she should probably delete her posts or change to an anonymous screen name.
But at the same time, this is just ridiculous. She's blatantly lying to us about what happened - why would she do any better with a program director?
Lol..."accidentally" had hospital meds in her possession...right you just accidentally grabbed some propofol and morphine and demerol...honest mistake...that definitely explains the empty bottles of it and syringes the police found in your house. "Complications" with her license...please.
State medical board records are public, this is very easy stuff to look up.
And from the perspective of her asking advice about how to get residency? This will all have to be disclosed. Whether the state medical board is correct or not about the events that happened, for the PDs perspective this is her word versus the board. She needs a better answer than attributing this to a misunderstanding.
As long as your license is restricted to 30 hours a week, I can't see a residency taking you.
What personal information? The poster's user name and a key part of her story?
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I don't know her whole story and perhaps she did something wrong sure. But people make mistakes and in general I think most ppl deserve a chance at redemption.
We treat patients who have done terrible things at times , who are drug a users etc. why do they deserve so much compassion but we don't give our own any slack? So if this person screwed u p in a moment of stupidity don't they deserve a chance at redemption?
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As well, it makes me wonder what happened with the anesthesia residency. Based on another place online, the OP said she completed 2 years and 10 months of the program. There's got to be more to that story too...
...because (per one of the news articles) being caught with controlled substances, synthetic urine, a heating pad, and giving a urine sample with too low of a spec grav to be tested is hardly just a moment of stupidity.
...because there's a difference between a board certified physician going through a diversion program where a 30 hr/week restriction is managable... and a residency program where even the most chill of rotations will bump up against a 30 hours/week restriction (Oh, sorry, you're hitting a 30 hour a week restriction... no worries, the rest of us aren't even close to hour 80 hours a week restriction).
Do I think that people deserve a second chance? Sure... however there comes a time when giving someone a second chance (because, remember, she needs to find a residency program who can meet her restrictions) isn't likely. This is one of those times.
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(a) I don't think this qualifies as a moment of stupidity
(b) Sure people deserve a chance at redemption. Does that mean they get another shot at residency? Or a medical license? Not necessarily
Consider your options as a program director. Do you take this person on knowing full well that they may not be able to get a license AT ALL (Her state gave her a provisional/probationary license with a lot of stipulations including the aforementioned 30 hrs. She voluntarily surrendered her license so as to avoid further hearings a year later. There is no guarantee another state would give her ANY license)? Or that if they do get a license they will require extraordinary amounts of accommodation?
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The restrictions were placed on her independent medical license. IF (and that is a huge if) she were to convince a program director to take her, she could get a resident training license which may not have such restrictions. Either way, it doesn't sound like she is the ideal candidate.
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Few people are "the ideal" candidate. Most people though deserve a second chance.
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Not in this case. This was not merely a case of a subpar resident being terminated and then having to find another residency. In that case, I could sort of see the resident being given a second chance if s/he was willing to work hard to overcome his/her weaknesses. Competence at least can be built. The OPs case, in my opinion, does not merit a second chance. To me, judging from her colorful history, she seems to lack integrity. Even now, she is, if not outright lying, telling half-truths. At this point in his/her life, a person either has integrity or doesn't have it. You cannot build that with residency training. I really can't blame residency programs for being unwilling to take a chance on her.
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"When police searched _______'s home they found drug paraphernalia, including marijuana and controlled substances taken from the hospital, the release said."
A lot of red flags
I think her medical career is pretty much over.
A lot of red flags
I think her medical career is pretty much over.
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This is medicine. There's a planet full of eager, smart, and well educated physicians eager to train in a US residency program. When you make a series of poor life choices, the people waiting behind you deserve a first chance long before you deserve a second chance...
Most people do. It strikes me that she's already had her second chance, namely her career post-incomplete residency. The "collateral" available suggests multiple red flags, and the fact that they were misrepresented here is hardly reassuring. There's a difference between providing reasonable opportunities for people able to correct prior problems or poor decisions and, well, this.
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I've seen some other threads where people (albeit with no red flags) who had not completed much residency were advised to try and do family med work for the IHS or prison systems until they had some good time under their belt and then to try and reapply to residency. OP, you could investigate that route but you may be done...at the least, you must be flawless from this point forward.
There is also missouri, where med school grads can practice as assistant physicians without a residency
There is also missouri, where med school grads can practice as assistant physicians without a residency
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Not excusing her or anything, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that a lot of physicians, including attendings, have a drug and a marijuana problem, and many/most of them have successful careers.
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Most of them don't get high as f*** at work, lie about it and steal drugs from the hospital.
I like beer...hell, I'm kind of lit up right now. But I'm not at work. And I bought my beer at a bar (and will walk home), I didn't steal it from the office. I like weed too (but quit using it a long time ago because of the risk to my career and livelihood). There's a difference between getting loaded on your own time, and getting loaded at work, using the company dope you stole, and then lying about it.
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So because other physicians out there have/had substance issues, it's okay? That's the argument you're going with?
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The first thing i said-I'm not excusing it. Don't twist my words. But if she has a substance abuse problem, then the right thing to do is try to get her help, not demonize her. How many of you work/have worked with addicts who need help? And yes I agree that taking drugs from the hospital is a terrible idea and wrong, but again, not allowing her to practice medicine over that seems a bit harsh. I agree that she should not practice in anesthesia or ER. But if she gets clean, accepts true random drug testing to ensure she's clean, have her do a clinical type specialty, I don't see why she could not be re-instated.
And the point I was also trying to make is that just because she may have had marijuana at home doesn't make her evil and/or incapable of practice. I don't condone it, and I certainly think it's a poor choice for anyone and certainly for a physician in general, but making a witch hunt like no one physician has ever done MJ or like no one physician has a substance abuse problem is just absurd.
I am a person who believes in giving people a second chance, what can I say. She was clearly sufficiently good to get a residency at a solid program, and to clinically be capable of working independently.
Can she not get clean? I think it may be a tough road, but if she wants to, I think she can likely be rehabilitated.
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There's a big difference between that, and stealing potent narcotics from the hospital, lying about it, and faking a drug screen. And the fact that she described her voluntary revocation of her license as "licensure complications" shows that she still lacks credibility.
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Yes, I agree that it's wrong. Again, people make mistakes and do things that are wrong. Like I said, I think that people can change and learn from their mistakes. I think it's crazy to say hey this person did something wrong, they are done for life.
Criminals get more chances than this person is!
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Essentially, she is a criminal. She stole narcotics and was found to be in possession of them at her home.
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Just so we're on the same page here...this person is a criminal.
And if you haven't figured out by now that medicine is not a field that agrees with the premise that "it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission" then you're going to have a very hard career.
Look, one of my partners went through the whole, license limitation, supervised practice, required counseling/meetings, weekly piss-test business for 3 years. This was for alcohol alone. Didn't steal drugs from the pharmacy (which we have on site), didn't lie about actions, didn't try to cheat the testing. He came out sober and "clean" on the other side. The OP/Troll is not this person.
She didn't just have marijuana; she was found with vials of propofol and fentanyl unlawfully taken from the hospital, along with synthetic urine for the purposes of cheating a urine drug test. While I would not say such events are necessarily irredeemable, she hasn't been straight about what happened on this forum, and that in itself is a major red flag. I don't buy that you can mistake an Ambien for an Aleve either, though I'm one of those who puts unlabelled meds immediately in the garbage (it's a little bizarre that someone with any kind of anesthesia training would do differently).
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The thing is...they aren't done for life. They aren't in jail.
That doesn't mean you get a residency slot.
"Second chances" and redemption come in many forms.
But at the same time, actions have consequences. Sometimes permanent ones. Some doors get closed.
Forgiveness doesn't buy you a clean slate.
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The Missouri law says that you cannot have entered into a residency and you can't have any limitations on practice other than the minimum federal requirements... so that option is out.
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Is this a joke? Real life isn't like Oprah or whatever. Residency applications are brutal nowadays, even for fields that weren't competitive 5 years ago. It's a bare knuckled brawl. When there are in fact many U.S. M.D. seniors with decent records going completely unmatched, what business do program directors have giving second or third chances to people who are years out and with several red flags?
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Let me be clear to the OP. There is zero chance you will ever practice medicine in this country.
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OP:
To answer your question, you will not be getting any residency position in the US, and most likely not outside the US either.
There is a heavy paper trail where you have trod, and the picture is ugly. There was no misunderstanding. Only lies. And you've been wasting our time and yours by withholding information and thus getting useless responses that cannot properly address your question.
Given that polysubstance abuse has already wrecked your career, I think it's high time you deal with your addiction(s) and the bad behaviors stemming from them (lying, fabricating, in public and managing patients under the influence of drugs, using extremely dangerous medications (i.e. propofol) at home, etc.).
To answer your question, you will not be getting any residency position in the US, and most likely not outside the US either.
There is a heavy paper trail where you have trod, and the picture is ugly. There was no misunderstanding. Only lies. And you've been wasting our time and yours by withholding information and thus getting useless responses that cannot properly address your question.
Given that polysubstance abuse has already wrecked your career, I think it's high time you deal with your addiction(s) and the bad behaviors stemming from them (lying, fabricating, in public and managing patients under the influence of drugs, using extremely dangerous medications (i.e. propofol) at home, etc.).
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Not if they get caught and have their license suspended they don't. There's a huge difference between what you are describing and someone taking home prescription meds, faking a drug test, getting suspended. There are so many applicant for each US residency spot these days that there's really never any reason to ever give someone with this on their record another chance. I'd much rather give the guy who struggled with the steps a first chance.
The real problem here is one of legal liability. If you hire someone knowing they have all this in their background you (the program/hospital) become liable for negligent supervision if they screw up again. so you'd need to watch them like a hawk, regularly drug test them, not leave them alone on overnight shifts, etc. You couldn't afford to treat this person like any other resident. I don't know many PDs looking for this kind of a hassle.
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If you think every person who applies to residency is a rocking mega star you are completely incorrect. There are many many many substandard applicants.
I think we all agree that she was wrong in what she did, no question about that. I nevertheless think that people do deserve second chances.
I doubt that anyone would post such personal information on a public forum so clearly it's very difficult to provide her with any good/helpful advice given that.
I think we all agree that she has a substance abuse problem, and that she needs help with that.
I personally believe that while what she did is wrong she still is "redeemable." Heck the board of medicine didn't even take her license they suspended it, clearly they must have thought that she could still practice even with restrictions.
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come on….did you see the restrictions? effectively they cut out the legs of any real ability to practice medicine (which it sounds like is what happened….)
there is a difference between the "less than stellar" applicant and someone who has proven that they are not capable of dealing with the stresses of training and practicing medicine…the OP is the latter…
we know that medicine and medical boards re unforgiving if you transgress…and very few, if any, will be willing to take the the known risk of training this person…they would much rather take the mediocre on paper applicant and hope for the best than someone who carries this kind of baggage.
to the OP, you need to see if you can find something in a non clinical setting…research? pharma?
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I do reviews of physician "issues" on a regular basis from all across my state. I do see folks come back from these events.
However, it is usually NOT by way to new training.
There may be an underserved area in TX willing to take you back on a supervised license setting where you can do the required AA/NA, piss-test, etc. for a number of years. This could lead to reinstatement of your right to practice independently. There is a physician-in-recovery groups. As a rule, physicians do very well in chemical recovery programs as they are highly motivated.
I strongly encourage you to pursue that while you look for a place to resume work with your restrictions. You can have a life back. Do not go back to training. In any future work, you have to be focusing on your recovery and health first and foremost. Status, money, reputation etc. etc. all are secondary at this point.
However, it is usually NOT by way to new training.
There may be an underserved area in TX willing to take you back on a supervised license setting where you can do the required AA/NA, piss-test, etc. for a number of years. This could lead to reinstatement of your right to practice independently. There is a physician-in-recovery groups. As a rule, physicians do very well in chemical recovery programs as they are highly motivated.
I strongly encourage you to pursue that while you look for a place to resume work with your restrictions. You can have a life back. Do not go back to training. In any future work, you have to be focusing on your recovery and health first and foremost. Status, money, reputation etc. etc. all are secondary at this point.
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This is just phenomenal and once again highlights the frequent observation that there's always more to the story is that the user admits to initially.
My concern is that she still seems to lack insight. As noted above, why would you create a user profile with your name knowing that it would be very easy to identify you and complete the story? That coupled with continued lying about the case makes me worry that she still hasn't accepted responsibility for her problem.
My concern is that she still seems to lack insight. As noted above, why would you create a user profile with your name knowing that it would be very easy to identify you and complete the story? That coupled with continued lying about the case makes me worry that she still hasn't accepted responsibility for her problem.
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And it's highly unlikely that an anesthesia resident, who has the constant temptations of easy-access quick-acting opiates, who self-medicates to deal with family stress, who was mysteriously terminated 2 months before completing her CA-2 year, who is found with propofol, Demerol and fentanyl at home... gets that zonked from a freaking Ambien. Another lie.
A 2009 Texas Medical Board licensure order describes a "failure to disclose arrest history on a previous physician in training permit application." It seems likely that this failure to disclose was in whole or in part behind the loss of her residency position. This was before the rural ER position with the problems there. The OP is hoping for a third chance at clinical medicine.
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The Texas Medical Board will go a long way to assist a licensed physician through difficult personal issues, including drug addictions; but no matter what the mitigations, lines are drawn when "the law" is involved. A future residency would be almost an impossibility for this doctor.
To the OP, you are a doctor, you are valuable, so: physician heal thyself. There are many avenues to personal redemption; one could get behind you if a willingness to correct flaws and a sincere want to do well to others can be shown. Good luck.
To the OP, you are a doctor, you are valuable, so: physician heal thyself. There are many avenues to personal redemption; one could get behind you if a willingness to correct flaws and a sincere want to do well to others can be shown. Good luck.
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Reaching out to one or more of these resources might be helpful:
KStar Physician Assessments (Texas A&M HSC)
Physician Assessment and Clinical Education Program (UCSD)
Center for Personalized Education for Physicians
Coalition for Physician Enhancement
International Physician Assessment Coalition
International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous
Impaired Physicians and Professionals track at Florida Recovery Center (UF Health)
KStar Physician Assessments (Texas A&M HSC)
Physician Assessment and Clinical Education Program (UCSD)
Center for Personalized Education for Physicians
Coalition for Physician Enhancement
International Physician Assessment Coalition
International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous
Impaired Physicians and Professionals track at Florida Recovery Center (UF Health)
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Well your initial question painted one picture and then when all the other information came out via the power of Google, the picture is entirely different. Your statements are in a bit of a contradiction to the state medical board findings and news stories out there. That's what escalated it from a person that had a misunderstand to, well, this.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2010
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 55
Any chance this is an epic troll thread? Like some a-hole finds a person who had exceptionally ridiculous discipline history on BME site, drops all the right clues, sits back and enjoys the meltdown?
It's hard to imagine anyone is dumb enough to use their real name on sdn with all of these other identifiers. But then again, Hanlon's razor. Who knows.
It's hard to imagine anyone is dumb enough to use their real name on sdn with all of these other identifiers. But then again, Hanlon's razor. Who knows.
