Cannot get back into residency...need help/ideas please

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Any chance this is an epic troll thread? Like some a-hole finds a person who had exceptionally ridiculous discipline history on BME site, drops all the right clues, sits back and enjoys the meltdown?

It's hard to imagine anyone is dumb enough to use their real name on sdn with all of these other identifiers. But then again, Hanlon's razor. Who knows.

You run the risk of libeling someone if you cop a real person's name and make posts in their name Ike this, so doubtful anyone with Half a brain would take that risk. There were also more details in the OPs initial post that weren't in the Texas publication and related news story on google. And the OP didn't give the whole name or the exact facts, so it took an early poster a bit of digging on google to bring those out and question her veracity. So I bet this was the actual poster asking about her own predicament. Hope she gets the help she needs, and finds a way to live a productive life, but realistically Residency isn't going to be in the cards.

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You run the risk of libeling someone if you cop a real person's name and make posts in their name Ike this, so doubtful anyone with Half a brain would take that risk. There were also more details in the OPs initial post that weren't in the Texas publication and related news story on google. And the OP didn't give the whole name or the exact facts, so it took an early poster a bit of digging on google to bring those out and question her veracity. So I bet this was the actual poster asking about her own predicament. Hope she gets the help she needs, and finds a way to live a productive life, but realistically Residency isn't going to be in the cards.

agree that this is not a troll. However, it doesn't take much digging on google- just type in the user name medical license (Stacy Elise medical license) and it pops right up-
 
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Maybe she was high on Ambien when she started the post. Ha! I slay me
 
There's a huge difference between what you are describing and someone taking home prescription meds, faking a drug test, getting suspended.

Really? If you think about it, is there really that much of a difference between a person who swipes meds at work and takes steps to prevent from getting caught on random UDS vs. somebody who willingly goes out on the street and buys pot, coke, oxy, whatever and doesn't cover his tracks?

The only difference between these two people is that first is stealing his drugs from a hospital and trying to cover his tracks while the second is buying from criminals and supporting the illegal drug trade and not covering his tracks. Yeah, getting caught with fake urine looks bad. But all it means is that person was using drugs. Is using drugs somehow more morally tolerable if you don't try and cover it up? Having the fake urine means absolutely nothing more than this person had a drug problem. That's it. The person who lit up a random UDS might have some plausible deniability by claiming false positive, but I don't understand how there is a "huge difference" between a doctor who has a "drug and a marijuana problem" vs. one who has the same problem but fakes a drug tests and obtains the drugs through work vs. the black market. Both are very bad.

Come on, it's not like the person who has the fake urine somehow is more aware of what he is doing is wrong than the druggie who doesn't.

People make mistakes throughout all stages of life. We don't know the facts, just a few tidbits posted online. We don't know what drove this person to drug use. We don't know this person's current state of sobriety. Yeah, this person rightfully has some explaining to do and has to prove herself worthy, but to say that she can never be a doctor again for the rest of her life is absurd. That punishment does not fit the crime.

I do reviews of physician "issues" on a regular basis from all across my state. I do see folks come back from these events.

However, it is usually NOT by way to new training.

There may be an underserved area in TX willing to take you back on a supervised license setting where you can do the required AA/NA, piss-test, etc. for a number of years. This could lead to reinstatement of your right to practice independently. There is a physician-in-recovery groups. As a rule, physicians do very well in chemical recovery programs as they are highly motivated.

Agreed. OP will need to prove herself with a solid amount of time served in (probably less than desirable setting) clinical medicine before being ready to pursue residency training. It can be done but might not be worth it and I could see where people would consider non-clinical careers. Medicine is a stupidly judgemental and unforgiving profession, and there are certainly plenty of people who never walked in her shoes but will judge her as unworthy, even decades later. Others are more reasonable and forgiving.

Think of what were to happen if you had a string of DUIs and finally caused a traffic accident. No, this doesn't mean you will never ever be able to drive again. But it's unrealistic to expect that the DMV will give you your license a month after it was taken away. You will have to spend some time in prison, attend AA meetings and stay sober, be on probation, attend driver education, finally get a restricted license, and eventually, way down the road, you get your privileges back. Collateral consequences will follow you forever when you apply for a job, but unless you commit capital murder, you have the chance to prove yourself. It just takes time and dedication. I don't see how this is any different. If the OP can stay away from drugs permanently, focus on retaining a license and finding clinical work, it will work out. I have known of physicians who have gotten caught doing worse stuff and were able to turn things around and eventually get their lives and careers back. But it doesn't happen overnight.
 
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Really? If you think about it, is there really that much of a difference between a person who swipes meds at work and takes steps to prevent from getting caught on random UDS vs. somebody who willingly goes out on the street and buys pot, coke, oxy, whatever and doesn't cover his tracks?

The only difference between these two people is that first is stealing his drugs from a hospital and trying to cover his tracks while the second is buying from criminals and supporting the illegal drug trade and not covering his tracks. Yeah, getting caught with fake urine looks bad. But all it means is that person was using drugs. Is using drugs somehow more morally tolerable if you don't try and cover it up? Having the fake urine means absolutely nothing more than this person had a drug problem. That's it. The person who lit up a random UDS might have some plausible deniability by claiming false positive, but I don't understand how there is a "huge difference" between a doctor who has a "drug and a marijuana problem" vs. one who has the same problem but fakes a drug tests and obtains the drugs through work vs. the black market. Both are very bad.

Come on, it's not like the person who has the fake urine somehow is more aware of what he is doing is wrong than the druggie who doesn't.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. Demonizing this person who we don't know and suggesting she is "never able to practice again" is absurd. We all agree that what she did was stupid and wrong. We don't know her clinical expertise she may have been great. Clearly she was in a top notch program, so clearly we have to give her some credit. Poor decisions? Sure.

But I totally agree that if she can show insight into her wrongdoings, correct her wrongs, and prove herself she can and should certainly be able to practice medicine again. I made a very similar statement as you - we see drug addicts all the time, we traet them, give them resources, etc. Why are we soooo judgmental with one of our own? Are doctors invinsible, perfect and never humans who make stupid decisions?

As doctors we are faced with a tremendous amount of stress, we many times are not allowed to be humans with personal pressures and problems. Many of us can manage those in appropriate ways, but when one of our colleagues makes a mistake, does something wrong, etc the finger pointing starts.

Why can't we take the attitude of - this perhaps is perhaps sick, just like one of our patients. Perhaps they need to be shown the same mercy most of our patients get. Perhaps saying - let us help you and heal you vs. demonizing them and saying "oh evil dr! should never practice again!"

It's crazy to think that people are this judgmental and critical. While it's great that many of us never have resorted to handling issues in that way, demonizing one of our colleagues is sad imo.

I know a number of docs, many in high positions, who have had problems with drug use, alcoholism, etc. and have screwed up royally, have gone through different processes - whether counseling, rehab, etc and have been "forgiven" sort of speak and have had successful careers.

When someone is in a position of need, I think it makes more sense to try to help than to blame and demonize.
People make mistakes throughout all stages of life. We don't know the facts, just a few tidbits posted online. We don't know what drove this person to drug use. We don't know this person's current state of sobriety. Yeah, this person rightfully has some explaining to do and has to prove herself worthy, but to say that she can never be a doctor again for the rest of her life is absurd. That punishment does not fit the crime.



Agreed. OP will need to prove herself with a solid amount of time served in (probably less than desirable setting) clinical medicine before being ready to pursue residency training. It can be done but might not be worth it and I could see where people would consider non-clinical careers. Medicine is a stupidly judgemental and unforgiving profession, and there are certainly plenty of people who never walked in her shoes but will judge her as unworthy, even decades later. Others are more reasonable and forgiving.

Think of what were to happen if you had a string of DUIs and finally caused a traffic accident. No, this doesn't mean you will never ever be able to drive again. But it's unrealistic to expect that the DMV will give you your license a month after it was taken away. You will have to spend some time in prison, attend AA meetings and stay sober, be on probation, attend driver education, finally get a restricted license, and eventually, way down the road, you get your privileges back. Collateral consequences will follow you forever when you apply for a job, but unless you commit capital murder, you have the chance to prove yourself. It just takes time and dedication. I don't see how this is any different. If the OP can stay away from drugs permanently, focus on retaining a license and finding clinical work, it will work out. I have known of physicians who have gotten caught doing worse stuff and were able to turn things around and eventually get their lives and careers back. But it doesn't happen overnight.
 
Think of what were to happen if you had a string of DUIs and finally caused a traffic accident. No, this doesn't mean you will never ever be able to drive again. But it's unrealistic to expect that the DMV will give you your license a month after it was taken away. You will have to spend some time in prison, attend AA meetings and stay sober, be on probation, attend driver education, finally get a restricted license, and eventually, way down the road, you get your privileges back. .
actually in some states, yes, that is exactly what that means…permanent revocation of your drivers license…because its not a right, its a PRIVILEGE…as is being a physician…just because you went to medical school doesn't mean you have the right to become a practicing one...
 
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actually in some states, yes, that is exactly what that means…permanent revocation of your drivers license…because its not a right, its a PRIVILEGE…as is being a physician…just because you went to medical school doesn't mean you have the right to become a practicing one...


I think that's makes no sense. Most criminals even get a chance at redemption. And I think that you should probably not be so harsh on others given your track record - I think you know what I mean.
 
That was uncalled for.

What was uncalled for? I have not said anything inappropriate, but facts are facts. That poster has a poor personal record, I'm certainly not going to post personal information about her on here, like others have done for the OP poster, but a brief search on her name (since you all seem to be cool with searching people online) shows that she is not well liked. So throwing rocks should not be done by those living in glass houses like the saying goes.

I also think the way that the OP was treated is rather uncalled for, so why are you being all righteous? Since we are all talking "facts" why are you coming to the defense of another poster, when I'm merely speaking "facts"? You are all tearing apart the OP yet more than one person on this thread alone is not exactly perfect let's just say, but everyone is ready to jump down OP's throat and rip her to shreds. I would expect any and all of those who are sooo condemning of her behavior to be perfect and impeccable. Talk about uncalled for!!
 
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What was uncalled for? I have not said anything inappropriate, but facts are facts. That poster has a poor personal record, I'm certainly not going to post personal information about her on here, like others have done for the OP poster, but a brief search on her name (since you all seem to be cool with searching people online) shows that she is not well liked. So throwing rocks should not be done by those living in glass houses like the saying goes.

I also think the way that the OP was treated is rather uncalled for, so why are you being all righteous? Since we are all talking "facts" why are you coming to the defense of another poster, when I'm merely speaking "facts"? You are all tearing apart the OP yet more than one person on this thread alone is not exactly perfect let's just say, but everyone is ready to jump down OP's throat and rip her to shreds. I would expect any and all of those who are sooo condemning of her behavior to be perfect and impeccable. Talk about uncalled for!!
Please don't be so obtuse.

This isn't about @rokshana, what he/she may have done in the past, or whether he/she is well liked.

You disagree with what he/she posted and instead of accepting that, you chose to deliver a low blow. That's what was uncalled for.

The OP asked for advise about her situation in this thread. @rokshana did not.
 
Really? If you think about it, is there really that much of a difference between a person who swipes meds at work and takes steps to prevent from getting caught on random UDS vs. somebody who willingly goes out on the street and buys pot, coke, oxy, whatever and doesn't cover his tracks?

The only difference between these two people is that first is stealing his drugs from a hospital and trying to cover his tracks while the second is buying from criminals and supporting the illegal drug trade and not covering his tracks. Yeah, getting caught with fake urine looks bad. But all it means is that person was using drugs. Is using drugs somehow more morally tolerable if you don't try and cover it up? Having the fake urine means absolutely nothing more than this person had a drug problem. That's it. The person who lit up a random UDS might have some plausible deniability by claiming false positive, but I don't understand how there is a "huge difference" between a doctor who has a "drug and a marijuana problem" vs. one who has the same problem but fakes a drug tests and obtains the drugs through work vs. the black market. Both are very bad.

Come on, it's not like the person who has the fake urine somehow is more aware of what he is doing is wrong than the druggie who doesn't.

People make mistakes throughout all stages of life. We don't know the facts, just a few tidbits posted online. We don't know what drove this person to drug use. We don't know this person's current state of sobriety. Yeah, this person rightfully has some explaining to do and has to prove herself worthy, but to say that she can never be a doctor again for the rest of her life is absurd. That punishment does not fit the crime.



Agreed. OP will need to prove herself with a solid amount of time served in (probably less than desirable setting) clinical medicine before being ready to pursue residency training. It can be done but might not be worth it and I could see where people would consider non-clinical careers. Medicine is a stupidly judgemental and unforgiving profession, and there are certainly plenty of people who never walked in her shoes but will judge her as unworthy, even decades later. Others are more reasonable and forgiving.

Think of what were to happen if you had a string of DUIs and finally caused a traffic accident. No, this doesn't mean you will never ever be able to drive again. But it's unrealistic to expect that the DMV will give you your license a month after it was taken away. You will have to spend some time in prison, attend AA meetings and stay sober, be on probation, attend driver education, finally get a restricted license, and eventually, way down the road, you get your privileges back. Collateral consequences will follow you forever when you apply for a job, but unless you commit capital murder, you have the chance to prove yourself. It just takes time and dedication. I don't see how this is any different. If the OP can stay away from drugs permanently, focus on retaining a license and finding clinical work, it will work out. I have known of physicians who have gotten caught doing worse stuff and were able to turn things around and eventually get their lives and careers back. But it doesn't happen overnight.

Um, you totally misunderstood my post and pulled out a sentence out of context in order to ascribe a position to me I never took. I said little of what you seem to be ascribing to me in your initial couple of paragraphs. A prior poster said "lots of doctors use drugs and their careers are fine" in medicine and i essentilly said "not those who get caught and suspended". I am not sure how you went from that to thinking Im defending illegal drug use or suggesting it's somehow justifiable. Nowhere did I suggest using illegal drugs is preferable or more justifiable or more forgivable. I just stated the facts -- that someone CAUGHT and SUSPENDED for drugs is not similarly situated. OP won't be getting back into residency. The resident who uses drugs but never gets caught isnt in the same situation, obviously. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be, but he isn't.
 
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I think that's makes no sense. Most criminals even get a chance at redemption. And I think that you should probably not be so harsh on others given your track record - I think you know what I mean.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't recall anything specific on his/her track record. AFAIK @rokshana is one of our IM subspecialists who provides fairly decent advice both here and in the IM forum. We don't always agree, but there's no track record of malice. I mean, the poster has been around longer than I have so maybe there's something in decade-old postings, but meh. If arguing on SDN invalidated your posts in further threads, most of our posters and half of our moderators would be banned from the forum by this point.

Back on topic:
Drug abuse is bad, but drug abuse to the point you're getting high at work and have your license suspended is a poison pill. I know a few physicians that fell down pretty low, may have stopped working for a while, sought treatment, paid their dues, and rehabilitated. At least one who taught our class in medical school event went an did a second residency afterwards (was previously anesthesia, became psych). But the OP's problems are multifold, show a pattern of behavior, and incredibly poor insight. If she were a boarded attending when that all went down with a (prior to problems) track record of doing OK, she might be able to rehabilitate, but at this point you have a half-trained doctor who really is way more risk that she is worth for any employer or training program.
 
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What was uncalled for? I have not said anything inappropriate, but facts are facts. That poster has a poor personal record, I'm certainly not going to post personal information about her on here, like others have done for the OP poster, but a brief search on her name (since you all seem to be cool with searching people online) shows that she is not well liked. So throwing rocks should not be done by those living in glass houses like the saying goes.

Let's be clear here...since I'm the one who originally put the OP's public information here that you seem to take such issue with.

One of the main guidelines of this site is to protect user's anonymity. Something I fully respect and appreciate.

The OP posted using their real name. The entire reason I googled them was because I read this thread and said to myself...holy crap, there is no way this person is using their real name, right?

Then when I confirmed that it was her real name, I posted that she should perhaps change it or delete her posts. I was admittedly critical of her, since it seems clear she is being disingenuous with the posters who have tried to genuinely provide advice.

As @Winged Scapula said, it's not an effective or acceptable tactic to belittle other posters (or imply you know salacious details about their personal life) because you disagree with them. You may also want to take a second to acknowledge that when you get advice from one of the websites most senior administrators, it is in your best interest to at least consider it, rather than continuing to snark back.
 
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Ok, back on track.

1) Several people think that there are "sub-par applicants" who are still given a chance to match and practice medicine. There is an enormous distinction between someone who failed a step, or repeated a clerkship, or even was accused of plagiarism, versus someone who was compromised, severely endangered patients under her care, was arrested (and cited for resisting arrest), and charged with (convicted of?) felonies.

2) There is also a difference between rehabilitating someone already in practice versus agreeing to take and train someone who is not in practice but who has this track record. Why would a program director take her? PDs are under no social obligation to rehabilitate compromised physicians.

Advice for Stacy:

Stacy has done everything the court asked of her and successfully had a conditional license reinstated. She attended AA/NA and presumably has practiced under physician supervision, as required, before it became too expensive for her to maintain her license and she voluntarily surrendered. Based on that, she might have a shot at a second chance.

BUT why come on SDN and present such a willfully factually distorted version of events? Is it fun to enjoy a little fantasy realm where a group of anonymous people (who don't know the truth) reassure you that yes, absolutely, you deserve another chance and we're all sure you'll get into residency? Do you really think that even if you fool the people on this site, your future PD wouldn't find out the truth? Or did you have some plan of bamboozling them in the Match, and once you show up you'll dazzle them with your genius and clinical acumen and they'll be willing to brush everything under the rug?

The thing that is so troubling about your story is the complete and willful lack of insight and responsibility. THAT is what bodes ill for your chances-- even more so than the felonies and addiction. If you had started a post saying "I became addicted to opioids and acted like an addict in every way, including lying, stealing and getting high at work while caring for patients; I was caught and I was punished and now I want a second chance" then you might have gotten constructive advice. I mean it sounds like an amazing hook for a second career in addiction psychiatry, for example. OBVIOUSLY you'll never get into anesthesia, emergency medicine, or anything else where you have easy access to controlled substances. But since you've been through the battle and presumably won it, you could easily have an amazing career treating others with the same condition. I would think a psych program might be willing to take a chance on you if you expressed contrition and clearly demonstrated that this battle was behind you. You might even get unusual LORs like one from your AA/NA sponsor. But again, the troubling thing is the lack of ownership and the continued deception-- basically, you're still acting like an addict, even if you're no longer using.
 
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OP:

I have that feeling you may have withdrawn from this thread, and hence this might be a waste of time, but I'll try anyway.

Reviewing all of the posts on this thread (and google searches), here's the timeline:
You went to medical school at UTMB, graduated, completed an internship, and started an Anesthesia residency at Hopkins. Obviously, you must have done reasonably well in medical school.
You left that residency in your CA-2 due to personal tragadies, unspecified.
You return to texas, get a medical license, and work in an ED.
You have an "incident" at that ED, and your license is revoked in 2010
In 2012 your license is restored with limitations / conditions.
In 2013 your license is permanently revoked, documentation from the board suggests you were no longer willing to abide by their conditions.

There are two theories on this thread for these facts. Both leave you in a difficult spot, but the solutions are completely different.

Theory #1: A Giant Misunderstanding

Your explanation for all of this is that it is a huge mistake. You left your residency due to something completely unrelated. You were working in this ED, and took Ambien instead of Alleve. You became confused/altered, and don't remember the details. You apparently took some medication from the ED. This was found in your home. Hence, the BoM thought you were abusing drugs. You claim this is all untrue -- and suggest that hair evidence demonstrates that you haven't used drugs. If this explanation is true, then this is a huge social catastrophe.

Problem is, multiple facts don't fit this storyline. The documentation suggests that you had a fake urine system on you, and used it to try to bypass the urine drug screen. Plus, they state that multiple empty vials of medications were found in your home. These facts make no sense in your telling of the story. The only explanation is that they were planted by the police (or someone else) to frame you -- but even that doesn't explain the fake urine situation. Hair samples are notoriously inaccurate, and don't really prove anything. And blaming 2 pills of ambien for your memory loss and bizzare behavior is highly suspect -- sure, Hollywood types do this all the time to explain why they crashed their Ferrari into a lightpost and claim they can't remember, and it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the alcohol they drank. And they get off. But we all know that this is completely bogus -- that 80+ year old patients with mild dementia can go bonkers after getting low doses of sedatives, but 10 or 20mg of ambien in a young healthy woman are very unlikely to have the same effect.

If this is the actual truth, then the solution is proving these conflicting facts false. The system has "screwed" you and now you need to prove your innocence. So much time has passed, that might be difficult.

Theory #2: You have a major substance abuse problem and are in total denial.

In this situation, you were caught using drugs at work, and stealing them also. You had a whizzinator to fake your urine, because you were worried you would get caught. Ultimately you were caught, but remain in complete denial that there was a problem. You're blaming everyone else for the situation, instead of accepting responsibility for your actions. All of the facts fit this theory, perhaps except the hair testing (which as I mentioned, is highly inaccurate).

In this case, I agree with others that you had several concerning behaviors -- you used substances illicitly, stole them from work, and tried to be deceitful when caught to cover your tracks. However, the latter two behaviors are often tied up with the first. This doesn't excuse them, but part of the pathology of substance abuse (especially in physicians) is their ability to obtain substances from work and cover their tracks well.

If this is the "truth", then the biggest problem is your continued denial. As I'm sure you have discussed at AA/NA, admitting you have a problem is the first step -- without that, there is no recovery.

We all believe Theory #2, because it's the only thing that fits the facts. Most, if not all, PD's or possible employers who review your application will also because frankly, Theory #1 is contradicted by the facts. And that's the challenge you face -- with your current explanation, no one is going to take you seriously. The saddest part of this whole story is that, despite all that has happened, you don't really see the root of the problem -- which unfortunately is a common problem with addiction.
 
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OP:

I have that feeling you may have withdrawn from this thread, and hence this might be a waste of time, but I'll try anyway.

Reviewing all of the posts on this thread (and google searches), here's the timeline:
You went to medical school at UTMB, graduated, completed an internship, and started an Anesthesia residency at Hopkins. Obviously, you must have done reasonably well in medical school.
You left that residency in your CA-2 due to personal tragadies, unspecified.
You return to texas, get a medical license, and work in an ED.
You have an "incident" at that ED, and your license is revoked in 2010
In 2012 your license is restored with limitations / conditions.
In 2013 your license is permanently revoked, documentation from the board suggests you were no longer willing to abide by their conditions.

There are two theories on this thread for these facts. Both leave you in a difficult spot, but the solutions are completely different.

Theory #1: A Giant Misunderstanding

Your explanation for all of this is that it is a huge mistake. You left your residency due to something completely unrelated. You were working in this ED, and took Ambien instead of Alleve. You became confused/altered, and don't remember the details. You apparently took some medication from the ED. This was found in your home. Hence, the BoM thought you were abusing drugs. You claim this is all untrue -- and suggest that hair evidence demonstrates that you haven't used drugs. If this explanation is true, then this is a huge social catastrophe.

Problem is, multiple facts don't fit this storyline. The documentation suggests that you had a fake urine system on you, and used it to try to bypass the urine drug screen. Plus, they state that multiple empty vials of medications were found in your home. These facts make no sense in your telling of the story. The only explanation is that they were planted by the police (or someone else) to frame you -- but even that doesn't explain the fake urine situation. Hair samples are notoriously inaccurate, and don't really prove anything. And blaming 2 pills of ambien for your memory loss and bizzare behavior is highly suspect -- sure, Hollywood types do this all the time to explain why they crashed their Ferrari into a lightpost and claim they can't remember, and it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the alcohol they drank. And they get off. But we all know that this is completely bogus -- that 80+ year old patients with mild dementia can go bonkers after getting low doses of sedatives, but 10 or 20mg of ambien in a young healthy woman are very unlikely to have the same effect.

If this is the actual truth, then the solution is proving these conflicting facts false. The system has "screwed" you and now you need to prove your innocence. So much time has passed, that might be difficult.

Theory #2: You have a major substance abuse problem and are in total denial.

In this situation, you were caught using drugs at work, and stealing them also. You had a whizzinator to fake your urine, because you were worried you would get caught. Ultimately you were caught, but remain in complete denial that there was a problem. You're blaming everyone else for the situation, instead of accepting responsibility for your actions. All of the facts fit this theory, perhaps except the hair testing (which as I mentioned, is highly inaccurate).

In this case, I agree with others that you had several concerning behaviors -- you used substances illicitly, stole them from work, and tried to be deceitful when caught to cover your tracks. However, the latter two behaviors are often tied up with the first. This doesn't excuse them, but part of the pathology of substance abuse (especially in physicians) is their ability to obtain substances from work and cover their tracks well.

If this is the "truth", then the biggest problem is your continued denial. As I'm sure you have discussed at AA/NA, admitting you have a problem is the first step -- without that, there is no recovery.

We all believe Theory #2, because it's the only thing that fits the facts. Most, if not all, PD's or possible employers who review your application will also because frankly, Theory #1 is contradicted by the facts. And that's the challenge you face -- with your current explanation, no one is going to take you seriously. The saddest part of this whole story is that, despite all that has happened, you don't really see the root of the problem -- which unfortunately is a common problem with addiction.

Great summary.

I think the big problem is...even if we accept that Theory #1 is true...is there any realistic chance of convincing a program director of this? Especially given the extensive documentation from the medical board? It's her word versus the board's, and a PD would have to take on tremendous risk/liability for the program if they accept Theory #1.
 
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Although I agree with aProg, I hope that this thread is of use to someone else who is struggling with addiction or has a colleague struggling.

You can restore your professional practice, if you are willing to face the "liar's disease" (as Stephen King and others have called it)

When a colleague starts lying about small things repeatedly, don't blow it off. Asking about substance use is a huge problem on a colleague-to-colleague level, but that is why there are medical staff offices, Chiefs of divisions and county/state medical societies. We know this is a problem in our profession and although most people will not accept help before they hit the bottom, do try and catch someone when they do.
 
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I'm always skeptical of a poster who joined less than a week ago yet knows lots of details about longstanding members ...
no i have no idea what the poster is talking about…you google me and there are a gazillion hits, pretty much most are repetitive but there is one post from when i was from, i dunno, an intern where i didn't give a guy HIS dilauded…and he posted something on health grades or some other patient popularity contest…if you pick a doctor from those kind of things from one poster…well you're not exactly the smartest tool in the shed anyway.

and to that poster…i made not one comment on whether the OP should or should not be able to get a residency spot but that the chances of her ACTUALLY getting one is for all intents is nil…who is gonna take the chance on her when you can take someone who doesn't have her record? Thats being realistic.…but that there are SOME states that you get a lot of DWIs you will have your license revoked for life…the second, third, fourth, etc chances of keeping a license and STILL getting DWIs….you DO risk losing your license…
 
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So much judgement without knowing the whole story...

Is it just me, or is this edit the epitome of irony? The very person that specifically omitted the majority of "the whole story" now claims aggrieved status from judgment resulting from the truth independently discovered and presented? Now, granted, perhaps there is even MORE of "the whole story", which is not revealed, but what is known paints a rather robust picture, which would appear to to be seemingly complete.

Yeah, maybe it's just me.
 
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Is it just me, or is this edit the epitome of irony? The very person that specifically omitted the majority of "the whole story" now claims aggrieved status from judgment resulting from the truth independently discovered and presented? Now, granted, perhaps there is even MORE of "the whole story", which is not revealed, but what is known paints a rather robust picture, which would appear to to be seemingly complete.

Yeah, maybe it's just me.
It's probably just you. Couldn't possibly be that other thing.
 
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Holy crap this was a good thread.
 
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The OP's biggest issue right now is probably that she wasn't able to comply with the physician health program she was in in Texas after she had the incident with all the drugs in her home and workplace intoxication. That doesn't mean she could never get back in a physician health program somewhere, but it's another mark against her for getting a residency position somewhere.

I will strongly disagree with some of the posters who implied that just because one breaks the law by taking c2's at work that makes it unlikely to stay in a residency program or get another medical license. The reality is that most opiate dependent physicians who do enter rehab and then a monitoring program got caught initially by either diverting opiates from work in some way or rx fraud of some kind. Or they were noted to be altered at work and then upon investigation were either stealing from work or engaged in rx fraud in some way. All those things are illegal of course, but the vast majority of these physicians end up going to rehab, keeping their licenses, and then continuing to practice. Medical students and residents as well.

But in OP's case, she has not one chance, not two chances, but multiple.....first she washed out of her first residency program. Granted, this wasn't due to drugs/alcohol, but still it's not common to leave residency perm after the death of a loved one. Then of course there was the workplace incident with drugs. And then there was washing out of a physicians health program for some reason. That's at least 3, and I suspect there were more.

For the OP to have any shot of getting any sort of residency position(even a prelim), she really needs to find a way to re-enter a physician monitoring program in some state where she wants to apply for prelim spots. I'd pick a large state with a supportive physician health program. And she is probably going to have to be in the program a bit before they will allow her to apply for a license......

If she really wants this(to get back into residency and practice med again), I think she could do it.....but it would take a long time and require lots of work.
 
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What was uncalled for? I have not said anything inappropriate, but facts are facts. That poster has a poor personal record, I'm certainly not going to post personal information about her on here, like others have done for the OP poster, but a brief search on her name (since you all seem to be cool with searching people online) shows that she is not well liked. So throwing rocks should not be done by those living in glass houses like the saying goes.

I also think the way that the OP was treated is rather uncalled for, so why are you being all righteous? Since we are all talking "facts" why are you coming to the defense of another poster, when I'm merely speaking "facts"? You are all tearing apart the OP yet more than one person on this thread alone is not exactly perfect let's just say, but everyone is ready to jump down OP's throat and rip her to shreds. I would expect any and all of those who are sooo condemning of her behavior to be perfect and impeccable. Talk about uncalled for!!

agreed....I think the original poster was mistreated as well. She's being blamed for not telling the whole truth about her past, and
I can see why she wouldn't. It's possible for posters to give advice without knowing every single detail.....one could have easily taken the initial post(without all the now known information) to be "I've got a number of red flags on my app and have been out of residency for 7 years....what are some things I can do to get back in the game?". And still responded based on that.

Would the advice be as good or complete as if we knew all the details? No, but oh well......

Furthermore, if she had come out and told the truth initially her cover is still blown. So no, once she told all those details it really wouldn't have mattered that she listed her name because she wouldn't have been anonymous anyways....one would have been able to do a quick google search based on her current location and figure out who she is.
 
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The OP's biggest issue right now is probably that she wasn't able to comply with the physician health program she was in in Texas after she had the incident with all the drugs in her home and workplace intoxication. That doesn't mean she could never get back in a physician health program somewhere, but it's another mark against her for getting a residency position somewhere.

I will strongly disagree with some of the posters who implied that just because one breaks the law by taking c2's at work that makes it unlikely to stay in a residency program or get another medical license. The reality is that most opiate dependent physicians who do enter rehab and then a monitoring program got caught initially by either diverting opiates from work in some way or rx fraud of some kind. Or they were noted to be altered at work and then upon investigation were either stealing from work or engaged in rx fraud in some way. All those things are illegal of course, but the vast majority of these physicians end up going to rehab, keeping their licenses, and then continuing to practice. Medical students and residents as well.

But in OP's case, she has not one chance, not two chances, but multiple.....first she washed out of her first residency program. Granted, this wasn't due to drugs/alcohol, but still it's not common to leave residency perm after the death of a loved one. Then of course there was the workplace incident with drugs. And then there was washing out of a physicians health program for some reason. That's at least 3, and I suspect there were more.

For the OP to have any shot of getting any sort of residency position(even a prelim), she really needs to find a way to re-enter a physician monitoring program in some state where she wants to apply for prelim spots. I'd pick a large state with a supportive physician health program. And she is probably going to have to be in the program a bit before they will allow her to apply for a license......

If she really wants this(to get back into residency and practice med again), I think she could do it.....but it would take a long time and require lots of work.

Even if you could find a sympathetic PD, and could get the license provisionally reinstated, how is someone going to work as a Prelim when you are prohibited from working over 30 hours a week or from doing unsupervised overnight shifts exactly? Sorry but there are too many accommodations and hurdles here. It would be hard not to take your chances with the Caribbean school grad with the barely passing step scores who at least can work 70 hours a week without supervision.
 
If I recall correctly (the OP's posts have been deleted), she was in some type of monitoring program with the state medical board in 2012, but had to drop out and surrender her restricted medical license due to not being able to afford the fees. Her only (small) hope of getting back into medicine is to save up some $$$ and go back to that state medical board and try to get back into that monitoring program/get her restricted license back. Maybe after a few months of that she can find a low-paying job in the prison system; also state psych hospitals sometimes hire GP's with license problems.
 
Even if you could find a sympathetic PD, and could get the license provisionally reinstated, how is someone going to work as a Prelim when you are prohibited from working over 30 hours a week or from doing unsupervised overnight shifts exactly? Sorry but there are too many accommodations and hurdles here. It would be hard not to take your chances with the Caribbean school grad with the barely passing step scores who at least can work 70 hours a week without supervision.

That's the least of her problems- if she could get back into another states physician monitoring program and remain in good standing for a bit, she could get the terms of that changed while she is in training. State medical boards almost always do what their physician health program arms rec on these matters. If they say revoke license for a member in a pho, that what the state med board does. Likewise if they said change the restrictions a bit to accommodate her residency, they would do that. And most pds are going to be aware oh how Phps work.

That said, the op still has a ton of other hurdles.

I'm aware of multiple med students who matched into residency programs while in physician health programs. It isn't that rare.
 
If I recall correctly (the OP's posts have been deleted), she was in some type of monitoring program with the state medical board in 2012, but had to drop out and surrender her restricted medical license due to not being able to afford the fees. Her only (small) hope of getting back into medicine is to save up some $$$ and go back to that state medical board and try to get back into that monitoring program/get her restricted license back. Maybe after a few months of that she can find a low-paying job in the prison system; also state psych hospitals sometimes hire GP's with license problems.

Yes but my guess is that there is more to it than that(why she really left).....that really doesn't add up.
 
If I recall correctly (the OP's posts have been deleted), she was in some type of monitoring program with the state medical board in 2012, but had to drop out and surrender her restricted medical license due to not being able to afford the fees. Her only (small) hope of getting back into medicine is to save up some $$$ and go back to that state medical board and try to get back into that monitoring program/get her restricted license back. Maybe after a few months of that she can find a low-paying job in the prison system; also state psych hospitals sometimes hire GP's with license problems.

She stated in her original post that she voluntarily surrendered her license due to the cost of maintaining it.

The documentation from the state medical board suggests she surrendered it as she was no longer complying with their requirements and surrendering it was done to avoid further hearings/possible suspension.
 
She stated in her original post that she voluntarily surrendered her license due to the cost of maintaining it.

The documentation from the state medical board suggests she surrendered it as she was no longer complying with their requirements and surrendering it was done to avoid further hearings/possible suspension.

I don't know if it would be feasible to hire a lawyer and try and get her license back but I see that as significantly more likely then finding a residency program that's willing to bite on taking the risk of training her.
 
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I don't know if it would be feasible to hire a lawyer and try and get her license back but I see that as significantly more likely then finding a residency program that's willing to bite on taking the risk of training her.

A lawyer is unlikely to help. The state board has a process that she would have to go through to be able to get her license back. Initially she will have restrictions. No other state will give a license with this prior license still having issues. If the OP wants to work as a doctor, it must be, at least to start, in the same state.
 
A lawyer is unlikely to help. The state board has a process that she would have to go through to be able to get her license back. Initially she will have restrictions. No other state will give a license with this prior license still having issues. If the OP wants to work as a doctor, it must be, at least to start, in the same state.

I'm talking about hiring a lawyer with experience in licensing impaired physicians to represent you at the state board. The OP is several orders of magnitude outside of the usual impaired physician/therapy route and I doubt anyone on this board can give her an accurate idea of the chance of the TMB reinstating her license.
 
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I'm talking about hiring a lawyer with experience in licensing impaired physicians to represent you at the state board. The OP is several orders of magnitude outside of the usual impaired physician/therapy route and I doubt anyone on this board can give her an accurate idea of the chance of the TMB reinstating her license.

That's probably worthwhile to have... I would expect if the OP followed through, she'd have the hour restrictions lifted first, though I would guess she would be on an extended probationary period as well. She's in a hard place...
 
Even if you could find a sympathetic PD, and could get the license provisionally reinstated, how is someone going to work as a Prelim when you are prohibited from working over 30 hours a week or from doing unsupervised overnight shifts exactly? Sorry but there are too many accommodations and hurdles here. It would be hard not to take your chances with the Caribbean school grad with the barely passing step scores who at least can work 70 hours a week without supervision.

Well, those restrictions were on her independent practice license in Texas. Perhaps Texas or another state would place fewer special constraints if she went back to a training permit/training license.
 
Well, those restrictions were on her independent practice license in Texas. Perhaps Texas or another state would place fewer special constraints if she went back to a training permit/training license.

No other state is going to touch her unless she gets reinstated in texas. And in Texas, she is unlikely to get reinstated with more generous terms than she has yet to comply with. I think those restrictions were already tailored to reflect the board's view of the need of close supervision in her particular situation. They presumably felt that only short stints in a hospital with significant oversight was appropriate, given the facts and circumstances. Doubtful that they would say -- she never complied with our 30 hour supervised rule, so let's kick it up to an 80 hour, less supervised situation. No, I'd say these restrictions are unlikely to be lifted without her first completing a pretty substantial period (year or years) of satisfactory compliance. A couple of years of compliance without an issue and then sure, MAYBE she can get the restrictions lifted. But it's not going to happen instantly just because she she can show she has a prelim year lined up.

Most of us spent our intern years running around the hospital on our own at night. Very little sleep, very little supervision, lots of patients at stake. I think her restrictions were selected by people who appreciate this, not people who are likely to say "oh, if she needs to change the hours per week from 30 to 80 and the level if supervision from high to low, that's fine". It was understood she, for some period of time would need to be closely watched and not be on her own in a healthcare setting. And that kind of restriction is precisely what will inhibit her ability to go back to a residency setting.
 
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That's the least of her problems- if she could get back into another states physician monitoring program and remain in good standing for a bit, she could get the terms of that changed while she is in training. State medical boards almost always do what their physician health program arms rec on these matters. If they say revoke license for a member in a pho, that what the state med board does. Likewise if they said change the restrictions a bit to accommodate her residency, they would do that. And most pds are going to be aware oh how Phps work.

That said, the op still has a ton of other hurdles.

I'm aware of multiple med students who matched into residency programs while in physician health programs. It isn't that rare.

I think you overestimate the willingness of a board to override their decision in this setting. When you are talking about "remaining in good standing for a bit" we are probably looking at years not days. She can't go line up a residency, get reinstated and get restrictions lifted in the near term. If she complies with the restrictions for some long period of time, then maybe some of the rest of what you wrote comes into play. There's actully a huge difference between having issues as a med student and losing your license for stealing medications while working as a doctor, so saying "I'm aware of med students in physician health programs who still matched" is apples and oranges.
 
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I think this was a troll thread. Nobody in their right mind (and I understand the OP is posing as a drug-addicted person) would post a thread about getting into residency under their own name and then lie about their history given the actual details of the story are easily accessible on the internet.
 
I think this was a troll thread. Nobody in their right mind (and I understand the OP is posing as a drug-addicted person) would post a thread about getting into residency under their own name and then lie about their history given the actual details of the story are easily accessible on the internet.

Well aren't you just Judgy McJudgerson?

[/sarcasm]
 
I think this was a troll thread. Nobody in their right mind (and I understand the OP is posing as a drug-addicted person) would post a thread about getting into residency under their own name and then lie about their history given the actual details of the story are easily accessible on the internet.

well it was pretty funny lol. For people who don't believe just search her name and something like doctor/medical license/etc on any search engine and the news stories are there.

If she is legit no way she's getting back into residency. She can always try research, pharma, consulting, etc. Plenty of others things to do. She also looks like she needs some substance abuse help. Very poor insight if she is legit on this thread.
 
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