Can't match need the truth

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inneedofhelp120

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I'm 33 year old male. U.s. citizen. Went to Caribbean med school. Failed step one passed on second attempt. Failed step two passed on second attempt. Passed step 3 first attempt. I have applied for Match last 3 years and have only gotten one phone interview didn't get the position. Last two years nothing whatsoever not in scramble either. I've desperately hung onto hope like butter stretched too thin over toast, but I'm finished right. Brutal truth I'm never going to match right? I could spend 6000 a year applying and no one would ever pick me right? I imagine over and over when they get My app the powers that be look at my scores and instantly throw me out. I'm literally the bottom of the waste basket. ... I just need to know my odds its like 1 out of 200,000 or worse now right? I'm never going to be a doctor and the blow from this has and will surely define and devastate Me forever. But I just need to know so I can truly attempt to began to accept /process/ suffer the gravity of my faliure.
 
inneedofhelp120 said:
I'm 33 year old male. U.s. citizen. Went to Caribbean med school. Failed step one passed on second attempt. Failed step two passed on second attempt. Passed step 3 first attempt. I have applied for Match last 3 years and have only gotten one phone interview didn't get the position. Last two years nothing whatsoever not in scramble either. I've desperately hung onto hope like butter stretched too thin over toast, but I'm finished right. Brutal truth I'm never going to match right? I could spend 6000 a year applying and no one would ever pick me right? I imagine over and over when they get My app the powers that be look at my scores and instantly throw me out. I'm literally the bottom of the waste basket. ... I just need to know my odds its like 1 out of 200,000 or worse now right? I'm never going to be a doctor and the blow from this has and will surely define and devastate Me forever.
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Sorry to hear it. That depends on what specialty you applied to, what programs you applied to, if you applied extremely broadly, how well you interview, etc.

Anecdotally, I know of people who failed the USMLEs then passed on their second attempt (barely passing too) who still matched into FM and IM. I think it might be possible to do this in psych as well as pathology.

However, the people I know who did this only applied once, they didn't try to apply 3 years in a row. So I'm not sure what to say in your case.

Hopefully a PD will respond.
 
I applied very broadly screened programs as best I could that disqualify for fails. I was shooting for im but have applied for fm as well. As far as interview skills no one will give me a real interview. My phone interview was short and seemed like they just had to fill a pool of people to pick the best from. And as usual that wasn't even closely me. I realize my post is extremely negative and it's obvious im hurt and devastated (for years now ) but just ignore that **** and give it to me real deal straight no ***** footing around. There is nothing anyone can do to sugar coat it and nothing anyone can say to bring me down more than I've alredy done to myself
 
If you've applied three years in a row and received only a single phone interview, then it's unlikely that applying again with the same application will be successful. You definitely need to focus on FM rather than IM. If there's any way to get new experience, new LOR's, etc, that would be helpful. As mentioned, any networking you can do to get some face time with programs would be helpful. I worry that there's something else problematic in your application, beyond the step failures. Did you finish in 4 years? Which school? How were your clerkship grades?
 
That really stinks OP, as an MD degree without a residency is next to worthless. I suppose you could be a consultant or sales rep for a pharmaceutical company with that degree.

Have you looked at going back to school? What were your undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores?

I know going back to school may not be the best use of time, but have you considered podiatry school? There was a student on the forums that did medical school in Europe and then matriculated to a pod program here in the states and she didn't have to do first year. That could save you some time. Having the DPM degree from an American school would give you much better chances at matching into a pod residency in 2022 (90%+) than the 3 failed attempts now. You could have been almost done with pod school at this point.

Something to think about, as the MD/DPM would give you a bigger license than just a DPM degree. You could probably manage light internal medicine issues with the MD backing. Pod residencies are only 3 years long and are very surgical in nature, but you don't have to practice surgery once you are out if you don't want to.

inneedofhelp120 said:
I applied very broadly screened programs as best I could that disqualify for fails. I was shooting for im but have applied for fm as well. As far as interview skills no one will give me a real interview. My phone interview was short and seemed like they just had to fill a pool of people to pick the best from. And as usual that wasn't even closely me. I realize my post is extremely negative and it's obvious im hurt and devastated (for years now ) but just ignore that **** and give it to me real deal straight no ***** footing around. There is nothing anyone can do to sugar coat it and nothing anyone can say to bring me down more than I've alredy done to myself
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sb247 said:
I would also find the places that take fmgs and have empty slots specifically and try to work out something at their places
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Are you applying to all or mostly all community programs that typically don't fill all of their spots? Agree with applying to FM only.

Please share what programs were on your past app lists.

This is such a painful thread. I'm imagining huge loans and little means to pay them.

You mention passing Step 3. Did you do a internship/trans/prelim year somewhere?

What were your step 1 and step 2 scores
 
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You have three red flags (Caribbean, Failed Step 1, Failed Step 2) -- so I do think you're out of luck going through the traditional channels. So don't do the traditional channels ---

I think @GypsyHummus brings up a very practical suggestion. MD+ a less-exclusive credential could put you in the upper rungs of a slightly different profession. Like podiatry -- maybe PA, pharmacy, public health administration, research?

If you decide to continue trying to secure a medical residency, then you need to completely change your tactics. If you've got any connections, USE them to find yourself a position where you can gain exposure and prove yourself. Select programs that look like they might consider you for residency IF you prove yourself to be a capable candidate. Your 'paper' credentials are a glaring weak spot, so you might as well spare yourself the pain and expense of applying where all they'll see will be your paper...
 
Your best hope is an earthquake. Lot of positions unfilled after the match in the bay area after the Loma Prieta quake in '89, and again in LA in '94 after the Northridge quake. Programs were desperate to fill and basically took anyone who applied.
 
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what have you been doing the last 3 year to improve your application and show that you are interested in a spot?

is there a residency program near you? have you talked to the PD if you can be involved with anything there? obviously you can't do direct patient care, but what about some clinical research? have you asked if you can go to say, Grand rounds, morning report, journal club, etc to get a change to interact with the residents and the faculty?

have you contacted programs to see if there are any unexpected openings? this time of the year, many spot open due to visa issues or people realizing that medicine is not for them. Cold call them, email, etc to see if there is any thing open. Also, see if any of your former classmates know of anything open.

is there a faculty member, PD or APD that you can sit down with (formal appointment but just hey can i talk to your) and discuss your application and what if anything, you can so to improve your chances of matching.

you need to be proactive in trying to find something...applying over and over again with the same application is going to get you the same results.
 
Paul R McHugh said:
Some positions go unfilled every year, correct?

Wouldn't these PDs rather select individuals like the OP than leave these positions open?

The odds don't seem great based on the results of the match results for you the last three years and being three years out from medical school doesn't help either. Could you get a spot if you applied to a bunch of pediatrics, IM, FM, and psychiatry programs? Of course, you need LORs and all that to match each specialty.

I feel like a US citizen IMG should have a path forward to practice somehow. Have you made any connections anywhere during the last three years?
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more often than not, a program will work around the manpower shortage than have to deal with a bad resident...not saying the OP would be a bad resident, but if on paper he looks like trouble then they may pass on him.
 
I have heard this as well, even in the podiatry world. People who are difficult to deal with, they do not want and would rather let the residencies go infilled, which is a same considering.

rokshana said:
more often than not, a program will work around the manpower shortage than have to deal with a bad resident...not saying the OP would be a bad resident, but if on paper he looks like trouble then they may pass on him.
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rokshana said:
more often than not, a program will work around the manpower shortage than have to deal with a bad resident...not saying the OP would be a bad resident, but if on paper he looks like trouble then they may pass on him.
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That's why this guy should have been doing some rotations or research in FM/IM/psych/whatever to fill in the last couple years, not only because he needs to show he was doing something to fill up his time but also to make some connections that can write him good letters/make phone calls and vouch for him showing up to work, doing well at a job, not being a pain in the butt, etc.

That's still a key question here. What have you been doing the last few years? If it's nothing...yeah no wonder nobody is gonna take a chance on you. Like any other profession, no employer wants to see a multi-year gap where it looks like you did nothing.
 
What have you been doing in the last 3 years? This is the time to find a job with a MD without residency, when unemployment is hovering near the 4.0-4.4% bracket. Can't tell how long the bull market will last.

Account management for health insurance or pharmacy benefit manager will be nice. You could probably try to be an appeals analysts. There are jobs out there for MD's without residency. But it's really depending on the geographic location, and what skill set you have. If you have some SQL, SSAS, or R knowledge... You can probably do data analytics. I don't think you'll be joining Truven or Milliman, but there are positions out there for smaller groups.

Best of luck. I am always willing to steer people towards the right direction for MDs without residency.
 
thxleave said:
What have you been doing in the last 3 years? This is the time to find a job with a MD without residency, when unemployment is hovering near the 4.0-4.4% bracket. Can't tell how long the bull market will last.

Account management for health insurance or pharmacy benefit manager will be nice. You could probably try to be an appeals analysts. There are jobs out there for MD's without residency. But it's really depending on the geographic location, and what skill set you have. If you have some SQL, SSAS, or R knowledge... You can probably do data analytics. I don't think you'll be joining Truven or Milliman, but there are positions out there for smaller groups.

Best of luck. I am always willing to steer people towards the right direction for MDs without residency.
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I am so happy you found a positive path forward and are happy in your career!
 
inneedofhelp120 said:
I applied very broadly screened programs as best I could that disqualify for fails. I was shooting for im but have applied for fm as well. As far as interview skills no one will give me a real interview. My phone interview was short and seemed like they just had to fill a pool of people to pick the best from. And as usual that wasn't even closely me. I realize my post is extremely negative and it's obvious im hurt and devastated (for years now ) but just ignore that **** and give it to me real deal straight no ***** footing around. There is nothing anyone can do to sugar coat it and nothing anyone can say to bring me down more than I've alredy done to myself
Click to expand...

If you're going to apply for FM, you really have to apply to every program THIS year. The problem is is that you are now 3 years out of school. Assuming that you have not had any meaningful clinical experience in the past 3 years, you need to be aware that many FM programs will not accept people more than 5 years out of med school. So the window of opportunity, even for FM, is drawing to a close in the next year or so.
 
Might also try for bottom of the barrel surgical prelims to get some USCE, hundreds go unfilled every year, but they could get you updated letters, recent experience, etc. Even those are becoming a long shot this far out though.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
That's not really true anymore. After the SOAP last year there were only about 40 spots left, which while not zero is not "hundreds"

It's also unclear how many of those are "real" spots since many programs are approved for more than they really try to fill.
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Yeah, I was more referring post-Match, but you're right, post-SOAP things are pretty ugly nite.
 
So I wasn't sure in reading this thread, did u mainly focus on applying to IM over these last 3 years?

How many FM programs and prelim surg programs did u apply to each year?

If you applied to all of them and still didn't get interviews, I'd say it's unlikely you would be able to match on trying again. However, if u didn't apply broadly enough before you may still have a chance. Best of luck!
 
Mad Jack said:
Might also try for bottom of the barrel surgical prelims to get some USCE, hundreds go unfilled every year, but they could get you updated letters, recent experience, etc. Even those are becoming a long shot this far out though.
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Not anymore. I glanced over the SOAP list this year and it looks like a lot of them filled.
 
inneedofhelp120 said:
I'm 33 year old male. U.s. citizen. Went to Caribbean med school. Failed step one passed on second attempt. Failed step two passed on second attempt. Passed step 3 first attempt. I have applied for Match last 3 years and have only gotten one phone interview didn't get the position. Last two years nothing whatsoever not in scramble either. I've desperately hung onto hope like butter stretched too thin over toast, but I'm finished right. Brutal truth I'm never going to match right? I could spend 6000 a year applying and no one would ever pick me right? I imagine over and over when they get My app the powers that be look at my scores and instantly throw me out. I'm literally the bottom of the waste basket. ... I just need to know my odds its like 1 out of 200,000 or worse now right? I'm never going to be a doctor and the blow from this has and will surely define and devastate Me forever. But I just need to know so I can truly attempt to began to accept /process/ suffer the gravity of my faliure.
Click to expand...

Other than applying over and over again, what have you done for the past 3 years since graduating?
 
Please everyone. Stop giving bad advice. Do not encourage the OP.

Carrib grad + multiple usmle failures + no match in 3 years? You're done. Stop chasing this pipe dream. Look into something else.
 
such as?

doc05 said:
Please everyone. Stop giving bad advice. Do not encourage the OP.

Carrib grad + multiple usmle failures + no match in 3 years? You're done. Stop chasing this pipe dream. Look into something else.
Click to expand...
 
I was exactly in your position 20 years ago(Believe me things haven't changed much). You have to try a different route. Get a research job in a place which takes IMG's. Work hard for a year or two. Make connections, get noticed. Unexpected positions open all the time. At that point your citizenship, cleared step 3 will make you an ideal candidate. Unfortunately match has become an auction house where score is the only thing which counts. It takes more than that to be a good physician and succeed in life.
 
Pathbusiness said:
I was exactly in your position 20 years ago(Believe me things haven't changed much). You have to try a different route. Get a research job in a place which takes IMG's. Work hard for a year or two. Make connections, get noticed. Unexpected positions open all the time. At that point your citizenship, cleared step 3 will make you an ideal candidate. Unfortunately match has become an auction house where score is the only thing which counts. It takes more than that to be a good physician and succeed in life.
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The guys 3 years out with multiple red flags. Not sure giving him the "get a research job" is really the best advice. Spin your wheels for 2 years to get some worthless abstract/paper that will do nothing unless he can get a spot in that program.

I think OP if you want to satisfy yourself that you gave it everything you have, apply to every FM program you can find. If it doesn't work out, go for the jobs people talked about above. I would not sink any more of your life into pretending to care about research.
 
psych md jd said:
Your best hope is an earthquake. Lot of positions unfilled after the match in the bay area after the Loma Prieta quake in '89, and again in LA in '94 after the Northridge quake. Programs were desperate to fill and basically took anyone who applied.
Click to expand...

How about applying to programs in Florida that were devastated by Hurricane Irma? Probably no one would want to do their residency in South Florida now
 
doctorKAT said:
How about applying to programs in Florida that were devastated by Hurricane Irma? Probably no one would want to do their residency in South Florida now
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What on earth are you talking about?

What programs in Florida were devastated by Irma? Almost all of the major hospitals in Southeast Florida (i.e. those big enough to host a residency program) continued to stay open through the hurricane. There are no residency programs in the Keys, which is the only part of South Florida that I would genuinely call "devastated."

This is not New Orleans, which was rendered uninhabitable for a long stretch because of Katrina. And I can bet you that almost every resident in South Florida is back to work already. I live and work in Miami, and we've been open since yesterday.
 
doctorKAT said:
How about applying to programs in Florida that were devastated by Hurricane Irma? Probably no one would want to do their residency in South Florida now
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong, buddy. Florida programs tend to be pretty competitive given the reasonable cost of living (Miami an exception) and lack of state income tax. The hospitals were unaffected and continue to run at full speed.

Tell me you aren't that desperate that you would look to take advantage of a misfortunes of others...
 
doctorKAT said:
How about applying to programs in Florida that were devastated by Hurricane Irma? Probably no one would want to do their residency in South Florida now
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Yeah you're right, after Sandy hit all the med students were like NYwho? Why Cornell Medical College? Everyone stopped applying to Manhattan programs and their rankings all dropped
 
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inneedofhelp120 said:
I'm literally the bottom of the waste basket. ... I just need to know my odds its like 1 out of 200,000 or worse now right? I'm never going to be a doctor and the blow from this has and will surely define and devastate Me forever.
Click to expand...

Well, you certainly have a better chance than that. Maybe 4% per year so long as you apply to literally every single program that is weakish. It's a lot of money and I did it for 2 years and get IVs but I really think you are kinda like me. You want to be a doctor for money or getting laid. Or whatever reason but the bottom line is it's such a calling like becoming a priest or a teacher or a cop. You have to know you want it since 4 years old which I surely didn't but there are definitely doctors who have a "calling."

"Doctor", which you are by the way, is kinda going the route of lawyers, especially past few years. Do you know many JDs who practice law? I do, but only half maybe. It's cause it's a sh/t job which does not pay what it used to and life is short. Have fun. Look at all those huge houses around you. Maybe 0.5% are doctors?

GypsyHummus said:
That really stinks OP, as an MD degree without a residency is next to worthless. I suppose you could be a consultant or sales rep for a pharmaceutical company with that degree.

I know going back to school may not be the best use of time, but have you considered podiatry school
Click to expand...

So dopey. Yeah, he's gonna take out more loans to become a podiatrist.

thxleave said:
If you have some SQL, SSAS, or R knowledge... You can probably do data analytics
Click to expand...

Don't forget about Python!
 
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doc05 said:
Please everyone. Stop giving bad advice. Do not encourage the OP.

Carrib grad + multiple usmle failures + no match in 3 years? You're done. Stop chasing this pipe dream. Look into something else.
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REALLY don't like it when people tell program directors and attendings that they are giving bad advice.
 
doc05 said:
Don't like it? Too bad. The OP is DONE and needs to move on.
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I dont remember you being a Program Director like aProgDirector. I hate to use the argument from authority, but its ridiculous to say your word is better than theirs.
 
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Psych_hopeful said:
I dont remember you being a Program Director like aProgDirector or an attending like Mad Jack. I hate to use the argument from authority, but its ridiculous to say your word is better than theirs.
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@madjack isn't an attending.

But the OP's chances are pretty darn slim...and that's being generous.
 
I don't know anything about anything, but the amount of people saying: "apply FM everywhere" astounds me. This dude applied 3 years in a row, I'm pretty sure he figured out he can't be picky. SMH.
 
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