Dec 7, 2013
9
0
Hello all,
As you might have noticed I am a newbie on this forum.

The child psychiatry fellowship interview season 2013-14 has ended and we are close to submitting ROL. Some might consider this a pretty late post and I think it is. Nevertheless I wanted to know if people know of any red flag programs amongst the big names anywhere (costs, south, midwest) and also if there are programs that have big names but the training is not as good- again any where (costs, midwest, south). Will appreciate input from veterans who have posted reviews for 2010-11, 2012-13 season- now they have more first hand experience eg trophyhusband, billypilgrim37 etc

Thanks in advance.
 

trophyhusband

7+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2009
257
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Non-Student
Hello all,
As you might have noticed I am a newbie on this forum.

The child psychiatry fellowship interview season 2013-14 has ended and we are close to submitting ROL. Some might consider this a pretty late post and I think it is. Nevertheless I wanted to know if people know of any red flag programs amongst the big names anywhere (costs, south, midwest) and also if there are programs that have big names but the training is not as good- again any where (costs, midwest, south). Will appreciate input from veterans who have posted reviews for 2010-11, 2012-13 season- now they have more first hand experience eg trophyhusband, billypilgrim37 etc

Thanks in advance.
Hey, I did see this... I was hoping someone else would respond but since no one has I'll give you my thoughts from a spouse's perspective.

It's hard to give a lot of advice on this type of subject since once you're safely in the fellowship bubble of your institution you don't really hear a ton about other programs (especially when your program is the only one in the state/city/region). But that being said the match process is more about going with your gut instinct and using what you know about the programs to help guide that instinct. For general residency my wife went against her gut and went with family preference and we paid the price for that decision. During the CAP match she went with her gut (and it helped that we had a clear #1) and she couldn't be happier.

She went against her gut for #2 on her ROL and in retrospect it would have been a huge mistake on our part had it happened. We ranked that program based on my geographic preference and didn't take into enough account the workhorse reputation of the program and some of the other defects we saw. We should have ranked another program in that spot but we weren't sure we wanted to move back to the Midwest. It all worked out in the end but we're both very happy that we never have to go through this process again. Interviewing for employment (should she decide to go that route) has it's own issues but those issues aren't as acute as the ones the Match presents (in our opinion anyway).

Red flags are a hard one to gauge because for CAP she didn't run into any blatantly malignant programs (unlike her general residency interviews). So it came down to personal red flags like not enough inpatient experience, call schedule, workhorse reputation (in CAP terms not surgery), expanding hospitals with no clear program plan to handle expansion, etc. A lot of it came down to personal preference so it's hard to warn anyone against specific programs when something she considered a red flag might be a positive for someone else.

Hope that helps but I don't think it really does. At any rate best of luck with the decision.
 
OP
Q
Dec 7, 2013
9
0
Hello trophyhusband! Thanks for the advice. I like the way you put this- "match process is more about going with your gut instinct and using what you know about the programs to help guide that instinct." On the other hand I am wondering, does it remain your gut instinct anymore if you are guiding it based on your knowledge? Nonetheless, thank you for your help. It helps to hear clear words when you are confused. I really appreciate that!! :)
 

billypilgrim37

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I would actually say that my understanding of programs is getting less (or more) helpful over time, in that most of the biases I learned for/against particular programs seem not so relevant as I meet people from these programs. Most fellows in most programs I've met have been really happy with their programs. Obviously there are exceptions, but while I used to have some standard lists in my head of which places were "best" and which might not be as good as the reputation of their adult programs, I don't think that really applies so much anymore. While maybe not as helpful, the good news is that I think the pressure should be off a little.
 
OP
Q
Dec 7, 2013
9
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Thanks billypilgrim37!

I have some finalist on my list. Yale, UCSF, Wash U, U of Michi, UIC, UC Denver. I am looking for 1)good training - didactics+supervision+clinical experience 2) reasonable work where I can be home by 5-6pm 3) not to mention-collegial atmosphere. Now that I have had the courage to open up, I will love to hear from one and all (to my surprise, some 200 people viewed this.)
 

trophyhusband

7+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2009
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Status
Non-Student
Hello trophyhusband! Thanks for the advice. I like the way you put this- "match process is more about going with your gut instinct and using what you know about the programs to help guide that instinct." On the other hand I am wondering, does it remain your gut instinct anymore if you are guiding it based on your knowledge? Nonetheless, thank you for your help. It helps to hear clear words when you are confused. I really appreciate that!! :)
Ha, pretty funny. The best example I can give is a program that was in the running for #2 (not one of the two I previously mentioned). My wife really hit it off with the fellows and the faculty and she liked most aspects of the program. But we weren't sure we wanted to live in the city it was located and traveling between the two main sites would have been a pain. But she could have handled that. The main issues were that the # of faculty were on the low side (what if you couldn't fine a mentor?), there didn't seem to be much therapy training, and the fellows gave off a vibe that they were a bit overworked.

We ended up moving it all the way down to #5 or 6. That was the clearest example of using knowledge to guide or override gut instinct. Oddly enough one of the attendings from her current program went to the program I'm talking about above and didn't have very good things to say about it. He's been out a few years so she took it with a grain of salt but it was still interesting to hear.
 

trophyhusband

7+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2009
257
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Status
Non-Student
Thanks billypilgrim37!

I have some finalist on my list. Yale, UCSF, Wash U, U of Michi, UIC, UC Denver. I am looking for 1)good training - didactics+supervision+clinical experience 2) reasonable work where I can be home by 5-6pm 3) not to mention-collegial atmosphere. Now that I have had the courage to open up, I will love to hear from one and all (to my surprise, some 200 people viewed this.)
UM was the only program on your list that my wife interviewed at and is actually the one I was describing in my first reply about the program that should have been #2. From what she wrote in her interview review it seems to hit on all three points that you're looking for plus it had a vibe that she really liked (she really liked the PD and program coordinator). Can't help you with the rest, good luck.
 
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OP
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Dec 7, 2013
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Thank you trophyhusband! I have same feel about U M and same dilemma about the city.
@ Billypilgrim37.. I have read your previous threads that mention other programs, do you have any updates? Here are my questions/concerns. Is Yale considered not so good for the fellowship training part? Seemed like they have longer days...is that true? Of course I loved their residents esp chief resident and the way treated us on interview day. Wash U: they have call q week in second year- home call but you have to come in. does anybody know about the real picture of call. I thought their residents were happy. Now, there is no mention of UC Denver program on SDN...and I don't understand why... ? I liked UCSF program-esp their didactics, but has weekly schedule and commute in between sites. Residents said they worked from 8 to 6, so I am assuming it should be more than that.
 
OP
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Dec 7, 2013
9
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One thing concerning about UC Denver was they have one full year of inpatient (4 mo at Denver General (county), 2 mo CL, 1 mo ER, 5 months- combination of Children's (main hospital) child inpatient +Neuropsychiatry special unit +eating disorder). I am not an inpatient person, but I understand that inpatient world teaches you lot and makes you be comfortable with kids- but 1 year?
 

billypilgrim37

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Mostly just hearsay. Yale has the New Haven track and the "other" track and the combined research track, and my friends there have either done the "other" track or the combined research track. The guy who did the "other" track thought very highly of his training. Friends in the research track have been a little frustrated, but they've been fairly productive and feel supported overall. Andres Martin works with residents and fellows. Dorothy Stubbe is super cool. Yale is still an elite program with a lot of connections, thought it's certainly not perfect. A friend who was a med student there had some nonspecific reservations with them downscaling the outpt program a few years ago, but that's about all I can say.

I really know nothing about Wash U, which is more a function of geography than anything. Barbara Geller has a strong mood disorder research program still, but other than that, no idea.

My guess is that either could be a great program if you get a good vibe from them on interview day and the geography suits you.
 
OP
Q
Dec 7, 2013
9
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Thanks Billypilgrim. Does it matter that Child study center does not accept insurance patients? They accept only medicaid and out of pocket.
 

billypilgrim37

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It certainly will effect your clientele, but medicaid kids are on average exactly the kinds of challenging patients that good training should feature.