cap on federal student loans

[askadds]

Administration is planning on capping the loans on grad loans...this will have a huge effect on how you will borrow, the rate on the loans etc etc because it will have to be more private. The number being thrown around is 150k. This is great because it forces schools to come back down to reality regarding tuition and applauded by many professionals. Pay close attention to this stuff guys/gals!

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[Mr.Smile12]

I mean, yes I think this can be well received by many professionals, but it won't "force" schools to do anything with lowering costs. There may be some bad consequences though some of the worst will require accreditation. But if accreditation is going out the window too...

 

[JacquesVallee]

I mean, yes I think this can be well received by many professionals, but it won't "force" schools to do anything with lowering costs.

It will when almost every private dental school can't fill a class because very very few dental applicants would be able to cough up 400-600k. If schools can't be affordable, they shouldn't exist.

 

[askadds]

I mean, yes I think this can be well received by many professionals, but it won't "force" schools to do anything with lowering costs. There may be some bad consequences though some of the worst will require accreditation. But if accreditation is going out the window too...

If they don't, we expect students to go down the private route with parents involved borrowing 500k??? doubt it.

 

[Bigjt1420]

I don't know, maybe I'm cynical but in 2024 there were 6,700 first year dental students enrolled but 12,500 applications. There is a lot more demand than supply for dental school seats -- I wonder if private schools would just lower their standards and accept applicants who have mommy and daddy's money helping them out, rather than lower the tuition cost.

Something has to give though. The government needs to figure this out, it's terrible.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I don't know, maybe I'm cynical but in 2024 there were 6,700 first year dental students enrolled but 12,500 applications. There is a lot more demand than supply for dental school seats -- I wonder if private schools would just lower their standards and accept applicants who have mommy and daddy's money helping them out, rather than lower the tuition cost.

Something has to give though. The government needs to figure this out, it's terrible.

It's happening now with additional dental school seats opening up... it hasn't pushed the costs of dental school down.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Tax bill would cut availability of med school loans amid doctor shortage

Loans would become unavailable for new borrowers starting in the 2026-2027 school year.

www.axios.com

 

[JacquesVallee]

I wonder if private schools would just lower their standards and accept applicants who have mommy and daddy's money helping them out, rather than lower the tuition cost.

They of course would, but I genuinely don't believe there are enough applicants with parents willing or able to pay 400k+ to fill even half of the private schools.

 

[Beau4832]

They of course would, but I genuinely don't believe there are enough applicants with parents willing or able to pay 400k+ to fill even half of the private schools.

Efficient pricing theoretically is the most amount a buyer is willing to pay for something (the income for the rest of their career) less the cumulative economic cost and risk premium...so it's guaranteed people are willing to pay 600k because over their entire lives, they expect to make more than 600k+everything they lose out on in those years. edit: 600k more than if they had done something else

This reminds me of an ad I saw several years ago where banks were offering to invest in students' undergrad, no repayment but they get a % of your income for however many years of your life. I'm sure it's more complicated than that and I don't know if it's still up, but if you get into any medical profession I'm sure that banks would be salivating at the prospect of practicing usury on vulnerable and excited new admits...

 

[JacquesVallee]

Efficient pricing theoretically is the most amount a buyer is willing to pay for something (the income for the rest of their career) less the cumulative economic cost and risk premium...so it's guaranteed people are willing to pay 600k because over their entire lives, they expect to make more than 600k+everything they lose out on in those years. edit: 600k more than if they had done something else

This reminds me of an ad I saw several years ago where banks were offering to invest in students' undergrad, no repayment but they get a % of your income for however many years of your life. I'm sure it's more complicated than that and I don't know if it's still up, but if you get into any medical profession I'm sure that banks would be salivating at the prospect of practicing usury on vulnerable and excited new admits...

Yeah but if you're leaving with 800k, no bank will touch that even taking 15% of your 130k income. 50k from undergrad is significantly different than 800k from dental school. Banks won't cover that because they know they'll never get their money back.

 

[TheeRockChewer]

This whole thing had me freaking out until I read

"The GOP-led reconciliation bill moving through Congress would eliminate a federal loan program for graduate students called Grad PLUS. Loans would become unavailable for new borrowers starting in the 2026-2027 school year and for existing borrowers in the 2029-2030 term."
From the AXIOS article. So currently enrolled students don't need to have a heart attack. But how exactly will this affect students who want to specialize? Who have to take the extra few years as they're existing borrowers in '29-'30? Wonder if students will become far more hesitant to even specialize.

I don't know, maybe I'm cynical but in 2024 there were 6,700 first year dental students enrolled but 12,500 applications. There is a lot more demand than supply for dental school seats

From that population how many have family that are willing to help take on those private loans? Seeing how students regularly ask whether or not dental school is worth it I can definitely see a sudden drop in enrollment.

UDM just opened its Vermont cohort and now has a class size of 170 students. If this proceeds they aren't gonna fill up their seats, especially for a private school. And not to sound like an ungrateful jerk, the school doesn't exactly have a high enrollment rate. People don't want to go to these expensive, private schools. Again, don't mean to sound ungrateful for getting in but its a tough pickle for the school as I imagine this cohort is going to be only fully operational for a single cycle....after all that time and money invested into it.

 

[JacquesVallee]

But how exactly will this affect students who want to specialize? Who have to take the extra few years as they're existing borrowers in '29-'30? Wonder if students will become far more hesitant to even specialize.

Either get into a GME funded residency program or a residency program that is actually affordable where you can get a private loan. It'll be a positive thing if the pay to play programs shut down because of this. It's bad for dentistry having crazy expensive residency programs pop up just to fill the pockets of greedy people. Georgia school of orthodontics takes 40 per class now. Meanwhile, the Mayo clinic orthodontics program takes just one resident.

 

[Bigjt1420]

This whole thing had me freaking out until I read

"The GOP-led reconciliation bill moving through Congress would eliminate a federal loan program for graduate students called Grad PLUS. Loans would become unavailable for new borrowers starting in the 2026-2027 school year and for existing borrowers in the 2029-2030 term."
From the AXIOS article. So currently enrolled students don't need to have a heart attack. But how exactly will this affect students who want to specialize? Who have to take the extra few years as they're existing borrowers in '29-'30? Wonder if students will become far more hesitant to even specialize.



From that population how many have family that are willing to help take on those private loans? Seeing how students regularly ask whether or not dental school is worth it I can definitely see a sudden drop in enrollment.

UDM just opened its Vermont cohort and now has a class size of 170 students. If this proceeds they aren't gonna fill up their seats, especially for a private school. And not to sound like an ungrateful jerk, the school doesn't exactly have a high enrollment rate. People don't want to go to these expensive, private schools. Again, don't mean to sound ungrateful for getting in but its a tough pickle for the school as I imagine this cohort is going to be only fully operational for a single cycle....after all that time and money invested into it.

I think you'd be surprised at how many rich parents there are in the world. The schools will start getting less Americans and more international students who have parents with money. Also, you just said that Vermont has a class size of 170 students. You're proving my point -- These schools still have enough demand to fill 170 (!!!!) student classes. My class had 80 which I feel is average. NYU has 350+ per year. The demand is incredibly high, and we haven't even began to really expand out to foreign students.

These schools wont change until they are forced to.

 

[SigmaFS]

I The demand is incredibly high, and we haven't even began to really expand out to foreign students.

These schools wont change until they are forced to.

Demand is artificially high to due to unlimited resources in the form of federal direct loans and accommodating repayment options in IDR plans. As for foreign students, aren't they required to have US undergraduate degrees to pursue a 4-year DDS/DMD program? Maybe schools will expand the 2-year international dentist programs.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Demand is artificially high to due to unlimited resources in the form of federal direct loans and accommodating repayment options in IDR plans. As for foreign students, aren't they required to have US undergraduate degrees to pursue a 4-year DDS/DMD program? Maybe schools will expand the 2-year international dentist programs.

Subject to accreditation and approval from other "higher authorities." They also need to make sure they have clinic space.

 

[Thehighwind87]

Imagine being the last graduating class that has 700k student loans and the next class is capped out at 150k hahah

 

[Bigjt1420]

Demand is artificially high to due to unlimited resources in the form of federal direct loans and accommodating repayment options in IDR plans. As for foreign students, aren't they required to have US undergraduate degrees to pursue a 4-year DDS/DMD program? Maybe schools will expand the 2-year international dentist programs.

I disagree. But then again, none of this matters because I highly, highly doubt that a cap will actually come to fruition. How many years have we been talking about the ridiculous cost of education in this country?? And how many times has this administration flip flopped on what they are going to do. I'll believe it when I see it.

Until then, if you are a pre-dent reading this, go to the cheapest school possible and do not go "wherever you get in."

 

[JacquesVallee]

I disagree. But then again, none of this matters because I highly, highly doubt that a cap will actually come to fruition.

Well, the bill passed the house by a vote of 215-214. As long as it passes the Senate Trump will sign it into action. This is by far the closest we've ever gotten

 

[TheeRockChewer]

Imagine being the last graduating class that has 700k student loans and the next class is capped out at 150k hahah

honestly, yeah. I'd be so butt hurt if things actually worked out in the future student's favor.

 

[askadds]

I don't know, maybe I'm cynical but in 2024 there were 6,700 first year dental students enrolled but 12,500 applications. There is a lot more demand than supply for dental school seats -- I wonder if private schools would just lower their standards and accept applicants who have mommy and daddy's money helping them out, rather than lower the tuition cost.

Something has to give though. The government needs to figure this out, it's terrible.

Am I reading this correct, about 50% of applicants end up getting in? Thats not bad or is it?

 

[JacquesVallee]

Am I reading this correct, about 50% of applicants end up getting in? Thats not bad or is it?

It's bad in that even though your average dental school probably costs around 400k, there are still a healthy amount of applicants eager to take on life altering debt. This is why the cap on federal loans is a good thing for dentistry.