Army Captain's Career Course

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Baron Samedi

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Hi all. So this year AMEDD CCC is increasing to 6 months. Does anyone have insight as it what it's like and the scope? I am considering going(I don't really have to at this point) but 6 months is a pretty long absence from home.

Also, does it affect ADSO?

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The CCC instructors say the funding isn't available to "go live" with the six month course. I doubt it will happen next year either. I am hearing FY 2022 or 2023. The latter is rumor though (who knows nowadays).
 
I can't believe there are physicians who willingly give up 6 months of their lives to this absurdity.

Your time is more valuable than this. Don't go. If they won't promote you without it, accept that sign as the message that it is, and get out.
 
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Context for Navy/AF folks:
Captains Career Course has traditionally been considered to be a requirement in order to be competitive for O5 in the Army Medical Corps, though of course exceptions do exist. Up until earlier this year, it had been offered as an abbreviated 2-3 week course just for physicians, but that was axed for various reasons.
 
I can't believe there are physicians who willingly give up 6 months of their lives to this absurdity.

Your time is more valuable than this. Don't go. If they won't promote you without it, accept that sign as the message that it is, and get out.

In certain situations, a 6 month course is a respite. I'm currently in one of those situations.
 
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I did 2 weeks and I thought it was waste of time. Military is really putting emphasis in military education so 9 weeks to 6 months CCC is not surprising. It really come down to the fact that you are military officer first who happens to be medical provider. If you cannot meet basic requirements to become officer military does not want you.
 
Wow.....it will be interesting to see what happens with the reserves course! Can probably make it to 0-4 without CCC, but I am sure to make 0-5 I will need CCC and ILE as well to be looked at in zone.

It's been tough already doing 4 weeks of DCC and then the short course for BOLC in the same 12 month period........
 
6 months is a long time out of patient care. Navy and AF equivalent are much shorter. All attendees are now required to take the GRE at CCC, no waiver will be issued for people with doctorate/masters degrees.
 
the navy equivalent is amdoc?
 
the navy equivalent is amdoc?
AMDOC is only 10 days, and aimed at O4 & O5 physicians. I haven't been to it, but it's probably at least a little bit useful. Looking at the outline it seems like there are things that would probably be useful to the average clinician with some admin collaterals. Then again, I got through stints as a dept head and director with only the solid mentorship of the people above and around me. I haven't done it and don't feel the absence.

A six month non-clinical course targeted at O3 physicians is beyond ridiculous. We're talking about people right out of training, still on the steep part of the learning curve, who need to be seeing patients full time. It's criminal fraud, waste, and abuse. I mean, six months is HALF of the time I spent at fellowship doing a high volume of complex cases, research, and preparing for and passing another subspecialty board exam. What could CCC possibly have that's more important than practicing medicine?

The condensed 2-3 week CCC mentioned upthread might be useful or not, I don't know, but it's probably not actively harmful. The idea doesn't fill me with disgusted rage the way a 6 month course does.
 
AMDOC is only 10 days, and aimed at O4 & O5 physicians. I haven't been to it, but it's probably at least a little bit useful. Looking at the outline it seems like there are things that would probably be useful to the average clinician with some admin collaterals. Then again, I got through stints as a dept head and director with only the solid mentorship of the people above and around me. I haven't done it and don't feel the absence.

A six month non-clinical course targeted at O3 physicians is beyond ridiculous. We're talking about people right out of training, still on the steep part of the learning curve, who need to be seeing patients full time. It's criminal fraud, waste, and abuse. I mean, six months is HALF of the time I spent at fellowship doing a high volume of complex cases, research, and preparing for and passing another subspecialty board exam. What could CCC possibly have that's more important than practicing medicine?

The condensed 2-3 week CCC mentioned upthread might be useful or not, I don't know, but it's probably not actively harmful. The idea doesn't fill me with disgusted rage the way a 6 month course does.

Policies like this make me believe that it is best that the army get out of medicine all together EXCEPT for deployments. Anesthesia, general surgeons, orthopedic and FP taken from the reserve corps (no active duty physicians).
 
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That’s the one. Is it also mando?
More and more.

RC has different formats for the course, including entirely distance learning, but it's meant to be death (past participants have told me it's 10-20 hours a week for a year). There is a quasi-residential one for reservists in which you do two weeks onsite followed by eight months of one weekend q month capped by another two weeks onsite. This is not in lieu of drill (at least not where I am), so it's a year in which you're one month away from your civilian practice and eight months in which you are Army half the weekends. Oi...
 
More and more.

RC has different formats for the course, including entirely distance learning, but it's meant to be death (past participants have told me it's 10-20 hours a week for a year). There is a quasi-residential one for reservists in which you do two weeks onsite followed by eight months of one weekend q month capped by another two weeks onsite. This is not in lieu of drill (at least not where I am), so it's a year in which you're one month away from your civilian practice and eight months in which you are Army half the weekends. Oi...

It depends on your unit. My 8 month of weekend classes counted as my drill. The two weeks for Phase I and III of ILE replaced my two week 'summer camp' with my unit, so no difference there either. At least for me. YMMV.

Regarding the time commitment, during the 8 months of weekend classes, it was more like 20 hours of homework per month, not week. During Phase I at Camp Parks, about an hour of homework per night, plenty of time to go out on the town or even a trail ride into San Francisco for dinner, nothing on the weekend to speak of. Phase III was at McCoy for me, so I got in a lot of fly fishing.
 
Yeah, I heard the blended route is the way to go There is apparently a new 4x4 format which compresses the format a bit.

I'm TIG for an O5 promotion next year and am going to see if I can swing it without ILE at all. It's just a time such that would be hard for me to justify for the next while.
 
Yeah, I heard the blended route is the way to go There is apparently a new 4x4 format which compresses the format a bit.

I'm TIG for an O5 promotion next year and am going to see if I can swing it without ILE at all. It's just a time such that would be hard for me to justify for the next while.

My experience is that ILE still seems to be the exception rather than the rule for promotion to 05.

Good luck.
 
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Back in the days when I asked why did 30% MC officers did not get picked up for O5 the HRC officer replied by saying that 100% MC officers who completed ILE got pick up for O5...:rolleyes:
 
Army: In-residence ILE for most is a 3.5 month course, if you can get selected, not a 10+ month course. Most do not go to the 12 month course, or the next-level course CGSC which is 12 months. Lately, all of the in-residence (3.5 month) ILE slots in the Med Corps have been going to CPTs and MAJs. I was told ILE is an O-5 to O-6 requirement, but the ILE board results (yes it is a board) suggest that O-5s are gonna have to do the distance learning option. It seems like ILE is creeping in as an O-4 to O-5 requirement. It looks like the MAJs who will stay in the Army and compete for O-5 will have done it in-residence as O-4s. Folks in long residencies or fellowships will be at a disadvantage with a shorter time to complete both CCC and ILE before primary zone for O-5 comes along. Captain's Career Course (CCC) is 9 weeks, but is likely going to become a 22 week course unless the MC leadership can point out the myriad of reasons this is a bad idea to TRADDOC (our new overlords). This would mean that between end of residency and making O-5, you would go to 22 weeks of CCC and 3.5 months of ILE. Many will completely opt out of PME, and my prediction is this becomes another roadblock to retention. Imagining missing 9+ months of clinical time for PME, then throw in some deployments and you have been out of medicine for 1.5 to 2 years when you are still in your early, formative years as a clinician.
 
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Army: In-residence ILE for most is a 3.5 month course, if you can get selected, not a 10+ month course. Most do not go to the 12 month course, or the next-level course CGSC which is 12 months. Lately, all of the in-residence (3.5 month) ILE slots in the Med Corps have been going to CPTs and MAJs. I was told ILE is an O-5 to O-6 requirement, but the ILE board results (yes it is a board) suggest that O-5s are gonna have to do the distance learning option. It seems like ILE is creeping in as an O-4 to O-5 requirement. It looks like the MAJs who will stay in the Army and compete for O-5 will have done it in-residence as O-4s. Folks in long residencies or fellowships will be at a disadvantage with a shorter time to complete both CCC and ILE before primary zone for O-5 comes along. Captain's Career Course (CCC) is 9 weeks, but is likely going to become a 22 week course unless the MC leadership can point out the myriad of reasons this is a bad idea to TRADDOC (our new overlords). This would mean that between end of residency and making O-5, you would go to 22 weeks of CCC and 3.5 months of ILE. Many will completely opt out of PME, and my prediction is this becomes another roadblock to retention. Imagining missing 9+ months of clinical time for PME, then throw in some deployments and you have been out of medicine for 1.5 to 2 years when you are still in your early, formative years as a clinician.
Has anyone heard what plans are for CCC at this point? I haven’t heard anything other than the extension seems to be a waste of time (surprising I know). I’m trying to figure out the best time to fit in this nonsense at a time that harms my clinical skills the least. Any suggestions?
 
Has anyone heard what plans are for CCC at this point? I haven’t heard anything other than the extension seems to be a waste of time (surprising I know). I’m trying to figure out the best time to fit in this nonsense at a time that harms my clinical skills the least. Any suggestions?

Not sure about active duty components, but for reserves/guard it's still going on in person for this coming year. I was lucky enough to secure a seat!
 
“Lucky enough.”

I know there has been the end of everything medical in the military foreseen many times before, but it feels like it’s really happening this time.
 
Not sure about active duty components, but for reserves/guard it's still going on in person for this coming year. I was lucky enough to secure a seat!
I could definitely secure a seat…my issue is that I don’t want to at the moment. Every week away from my actual work would make me less able to function in my job. When this thing was three weeks, it was boring, but it didn’t really incapacitate you. In its current form, I can’t seem to figure out a good time to do it. It’s too big to fit in.
 
I could definitely secure a seat…my issue is that I don’t want to at the moment. Every week away from my actual work would make me less able to function in my job. When this thing was three weeks, it was boring, but it didn’t really incapacitate you. In its current form, I can’t seem to figure out a good time to do it. It’s too big to fit in.

Sadly though it seems to be the main thing the 0-4 boards are focusing on. I've seen amazing people passed over in zone from nurse corps and MSC. The only ones I've seen pick up 0-4 even above zone the last 2 boards have had CCC done.
 
More and more.

RC has different formats for the course, including entirely distance learning, but it's meant to be death (past participants have told me it's 10-20 hours a week for a year). There is a quasi-residential one for reservists in which you do two weeks onsite followed by eight months of one weekend q month capped by another two weeks onsite. This is not in lieu of drill (at least not where I am), so it's a year in which you're one month away from your civilian practice and eight months in which you are Army half the weekends. Oi...

Yes I have heard the horror stories of this. I have known a couple people who did the one weekend a month one and were lucky enough to be excused from most BA's because of it. I know that is not always the case.
 
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