Cardiology

[worldpeace0]

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What is the difference between a cardiologist and a cardiovascular thoracic surgeon? Are both always on call? What's the job setting? How long are the daily work hours of each ( at most)? 10 hours a day or more?

 

[Winged Scapula]

A cardiologist manages cardiac disease medically, although they do do some procedures (whether or not they should is another argument altogther). He/she is an internist by training.

A cardiovascular (or cardiothoracic surgeon) manages cardiac disease surgically. He/she is a surgeon.

Both take call. The amount of which will vary depending on the size of their practice group or department.

Job settings can be private practice, community hospital or HMO or academic medical center. Can also be just research, not clinical practice.

Both work long days. In most surgical jobs you can count on 10 hour or more days regularly. This is also true of most busy medical practices. Cardiology and CT Surgery are not one of the fields which work fewer hours. The daily work hours could be 24 or more depending on what is going on...emergencies, on call, etc. A "normal" day could be 12 hours....HIGHLY variable depending on situation, practice setting, etc.

 

[-Goose-]

CT surgery FAQ:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=457999

Good stuff 👍

 

[-Goose-]

What is the difference between a cardiologist and a cardiovascular thoracic surgeon? Are both always on call? What's the job setting? How long are the daily work hours of each ( at most)? 10 hours a day or more?

Having recently spent some time with a private practice CT surgery group (a big one) in the southeast, I gathered that CT surgeons work really damn hard. The patients are sick as stink and complications are more the norm than the exception. One told me he works over 80 hours a week. That being said, the technology in CT is, from my perspective, pretty awesome. The DaVinci robot procedures are really cool (http://www.pinnaclehealth.org/body.cfm?id=1609). I don't know how practical they are, but they sure are interesting to watch. Search OR-Live.com for some examples.

 

[Blade28]

CT surgery FAQ:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=457999

Good stuff 👍

Thanks! 🙂

 

[dynx]

What is the difference between a cardiologist and a cardiovascular thoracic surgeon?

What an interesting question. The difference is basically one of attitude and goals. A cardiologist carefully looks at how much call she's going to have to do, how nice her job setting is and how many hours a week she'd have to work before choosing a profession where she can practice the art of "aesthetic stenting" where-by she makes coronary angiograms look pretty and may or may not actually give the patient thier best shot at living a longer healthier life. To make critical patient care decisions in the middle of the night a cardiologist must know a lot of things...like what day of the week it is, what else they have going on tomorrow and if the patient has insurance....these are all evidence based factors in deciding if that patient needs a by-pass or a stent. Complications involve a lot of work where-by you have to call a CT surgeon from your porshe cell phone on your way home and let them know whats going on.

A CT surgeon doesn't really consider hours worked or how much time he's going to spend on call. Or, if he does he considers the effort time either worth-it or even desirable, since it will allow him to provide optimal care for the patient. You need to know when to operate or not based upon the patients risk of dying on the table or in the ICU after surgery. Often he's grumpy and has a harsh attitude since if there's a patient that needs him he's the last line of defense and he needs to come in whatever day of the week it is and whatever time. If there is a complication there isn't really anyone that can bail him out.

In other words CT surgery is better.

Are both always on call?

Cardiologists are on call Q10 CT surgeons are on call Q2

What's the job setting?

Often a hospital.

How long are the daily work hours of each (at most)?

Cardiologists can work up to 10 even 12 hours a day. CT surgeons are always at work

10 hours a day or more?

stick with cardiology

 

[Castro Viejo]

What an interesting question. The difference is basically one of attitude and goals. A cardiologist carefully looks at how much call she's going to have to do, how nice her job setting is and how many hours a week she'd have to work before choosing a profession where she can practice the art of "aesthetic stenting" where-by she makes coronary angiograms look pretty and may or may not actually give the patient thier best shot at living a longer healthier life. To make critical patient care decisions in the middle of the night a cardiologist must know a lot of things...like what day of the week it is, what else they have going on tomorrow and if the patient has insurance....these are all evidence based factors in deciding if that patient needs a by-pass or a stent. Complications involve a lot of work where-by you have to call a CT surgeon from your porshe cell phone on your way home and let them know whats going on.

A CT surgeon doesn't really consider hours worked or how much time he's going to spend on call. Or, if he does he considers the effort time either worth-it or even desirable, since it will allow him to provide optimal care for the patient. You need to know when to operate or not based upon the patients risk of dying on the table or in the ICU after surgery. Often he's grumpy and has a harsh attitude since if there's a patient that needs him he's the last line of defense and he needs to come in whatever day of the week it is and whatever time. If there is a complication there isn't really anyone that can bail him out.

In other words CT surgery is better.

 

[Blade28]

One goes through 6 years of training after med school, then cherry-picks from any number of great jobs in great cities here in the US.

The other goes through 7-10 years of training after med school, then either tries to find a terrible job in a terrible city, or goes back and spends another 3 years doing a super-fellowship.

 

[Castro Viejo]

What is the difference between a cardiologist and a cardiovascular thoracic surgeon? Are both always on call? What's the job setting? How long are the daily work hours of each ( at most)? 10 hours a day or more?

One is an animal.

The other is an animal with a job.

(Stay the hell away from peripheral vascular work! )

 

[TheBoondocks]

One is an animal.

The other is an animal with a job.

(Stay the hell away from peripheral vascular work! )

lol castro, you're too funny. i'm an undergrad but love coming here because of your humor. cardiologists are so greed it's ridiculous. you know there's a problem when everyone hates you. IR vs. Cards CT. vs card VS vs. Cards, yea you should be scared of them taking over peripheral work. when i read some studies showing that greedy cards stented even though it was no better than medication it made me sick. I'm really interested in surgery right now, but we'll see. I'm definitly going to do GS residency assuming i get in. It'll be either VS or CT surgery, despite the dim prognosis for the latter.

 

[Blade28]

It'll be either VS or CT surgery, despite the dim prognosis for the latter.

Nah, it'll be OK.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I volunteer to eat lots of cheesecake and french fries to assist you in having patient population to operate on in 20 years. 😀

 

[Blade28]

I volunteer to eat lots of cheesecake and french fries to assist you in having patient population to operate on in 20 years. 😀

Ah, at the Cheesecake Factory near your place, right? 🙂

 

[TheBoondocks]

Nah, it'll be OK.

i hope so. one of my brother's friends dad is a CT surgeon and i've watched a bunch of his surgeries. it's so awesome. but i'm only watching, i don't care too much about hours, but i'm niave right now, so i'll take your word for it blade28. i like your posts too, you and castro are hilarious.

 

[Blade28]

i hope so. one of my brother's friends dad is a CT surgeon and i've watched a bunch of his surgeries. it's so awesome. but i'm only watching, i don't care too much about hours, but i'm niave right now, so i'll take your word for it blade28. i like your posts too, you and castro are hilarious.

Well best of luck to you! Where are you in the med school admissions process?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ah, at the Cheesecake Factory near your place, right? 🙂

Right...I can walk there!😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

i hope so. one of my brother's friends dad is a CT surgeon and i've watched a bunch of his surgeries. it's so awesome. but i'm only watching, i don't care too much about hours, but i'm niave right now, so i'll take your word for it blade28. i like your posts too, you and castro are hilarious.

Ct Surgery Checklist:

Obviously insane: check

 

[Castro Viejo]

Ct Surgery Checklist:

Obviously insane: check

Don't be hatin'!

I gotz me a fan club, yo...

 

[Blade28]

Ct Surgery Checklist:

Obviously insane: check

Unfortunately for Castro he's in Vascular, not CT. 🙂

 

[Castro Viejo]

True. It is unfortunate to get grownup pay as a Vascular Surgeon than do yet ANOTHER CT fellowship to get resident pay. I hear all that money and all the bling you can afford with good pay can hurt your back.

🙂

 

[Castro Viejo]

True. It is unfortunate to get grownup pay as a Vascular Surgeon than do yet ANOTHER CT fellowship just to have a job to make payment on your Hyundai and studio apartment every month.

🙂

 

[TheBoondocks]

True. It is unfortunate to get grownup pay as a Vascular Surgeon than do yet ANOTHER CT fellowship just to have a job to make payment on your Hyundai and studio apartment every month.

🙂

lol, you really got him there.

 

[TheBoondocks]

lol, you really got him there.

but you're forgetting that blade28 is no regular surgeon. he'll be one of the few who get their pick of jobs, the few ones there are, if they even exist.

you're still my hero blade, except for the fact that you like the RED Sox.

 

[Castro Viejo]

but you're forgetting that blade28 is no regular surgeon. he'll be one of the few who get their pick of jobs, the few ones there are, if they even exist.

He sure will.

"Pediatric Cardiac Surgery Fellow."

"Cardiopulmonary Transplant Fellow."

"Adult Cardiac Surgery Fellow."

"Cardiac Surgery Clinical Fellow."

And my favorite... "Chief of French-Frying at McDonald's." 😛

Just kidding, Blade... Ya know you got nuthin' but love from me, yo... 😀

(Not Brokeback kind of love... You know what I mean.)

 

[Blade28]

you're still my hero blade, except for the fact that you like the RED Sox.

*Shudder* You're a Yankee fan? You AND Castro? 😱 🙂

He sure will.

"Pediatric Cardiac Surgery Fellow."

"Cardiopulmonary Transplant Fellow."

"Adult Cardiac Surgery Fellow."

"Cardiac Surgery Clinical Fellow."

And my favorite... "Chief of French-Frying at McDonald's." 😛

I'd laugh if it weren't actually a possibility. 🙁

 

[Castro Viejo]

*Shudder* You're a Yankee fan? You AND Castro? 😱 🙂

I knew there was something about Boonie that I liked.

I'd laugh if it weren't actually a possibility. 🙁

It doesn't have to be. Just join the dark side. Do Vascular Surgery. You know deep down inside it's the right thing to do. It may not be as sexy as Cardiac where you're crackin' chests all the time, but at least you won't have to deal with cancer.

 

[Blade28]

It doesn't have to be. Just join the dark side. Do Vascular Surgery. You know deep down inside it's the right thing to do. It may not be as sexy as Cardiac where you're crackin' chests all the time, but at least you won't have to deal with cancer.

Actually I WANT to deal with cancer! Lung cancer (VATS lobes!) and esophageal cancer (Ivor-Lewises!) fascinate me. 🙂

Oh, and I want to operate on the heart and aorta as well. 🙂

 

[njbmd]

Ah, at the Cheesecake Factory near your place, right? 🙂

Right...I can walk there!😀

I have one of these within walking distance too. If I jog over and back, I can justify eating a slice. 😀

Don't be hatin'!

I gotz me a fan club, yo...

And I am one of the honored members. I love this thread!

Actually I WANT to deal with cancer! Lung cancer (VATS lobes!) and esophageal cancer (Ivor-Lewises!) fascinate me. 🙂

Oh, and I want to operate on the heart and aorta as well. 🙂

I loved doing thoracic surgery (pneumonectomies were the best) but when it comes to sewing down grafts, I like being out of the thoracic cavity. Give me a good fem-distal any day. I just love the sound of a biphasic waveform!

 

[Castro Viejo]

And I am one of the honored members. I love this thread!

You sure are. 😍

I loved doing thoracic surgery (pneumonectomies were the best) but when it comes to sewing down grafts, I like being out of the thoracic cavity. Give me a good fem-distal any day. I just love the sound of a biphasic waveform!

Like I said... Vascular is king.

 

[TheBoondocks]

Well best of luck to you! Where are you in the med school admissions process?

i apply for entry into 2010, so aamcas 2009. just working to keep up the gpa, volunteer, shadowing, the whole bit. yes i'm a yankee's fan, but your redsox have been doing too much winning lately. I just turned 22, i graduate in dec 2008. i took a semester off since one of my friends died due to an undiagnosed cardiac arrhythmia fall of my sophomore year. That's kind of when i really became set on medicine. i could have applied for entry in 2009, but i really want to take a year off before entering med school.

 

[TheBoondocks]

i apply for entry into 2010, so aamcas 2009. just working to keep up the gpa, volunteer, shadowing, the whole bit. yes i'm a yankee's fan, but your redsox have been doing too much winning lately. I just turned 22, i graduate in dec 2008. i took a semester off since one of my friends died due to an undiagnosed cardiac arrhythmia fall of my sophomore year. That's kind of when i really became set on medicine. i could have applied for entry in 2009, but i really want to take a year off before entering med school.

so i'll be entering med school when castro is finishing up his VS residency in chicago. it's the journey. it's weird blade, despite it's questionable future, there is nothing from my limited experience, like watching the beating heart up close. my friend's death taught me that life is short and all the money in the world doesn't mean squat if you're not happy. GS will be hell, i saw a thing on CNN about residents at Emory. man it was bad, they slept at the hospital, constantly tired. this one chick husband left her since she was always at the hospital, so i have a lot of sleepless nights to look forward to. but seeing you and castro talk, i know it'll be worth it in the end.

 

[Blade28]

Give me a good fem-distal any day. I just love the sound of a biphasic waveform!

I'll admit that a strong Dopplerable signal (after a long fem-DP, fem-PT, or fem-AT case) is tough to beat. 🙂

GS will be hell, i saw a thing on CNN about residents at Emory. man it was bad, they slept at the hospital, constantly tired.

We don't usually get to sleep. But we are always tired! 😱

You must have been seeing the lives of the non-surgical residents! 🙂

Edit: BTW I thought from previous posts that you were interested in Interventional Cards and/or getting an MBA? 😕

 

[njbmd]

GS will be hell, i saw a thing on CNN about residents at Emory. man it was bad, they slept at the hospital, constantly tired. this one chick husband left her since she was always at the hospital, so i have a lot of sleepless nights to look forward to. but seeing you and castro talk, i know it'll be worth it in the end.

Dude/Dudette, stop watching the telly. All of that stuff is done with an emphasis on the dramatic/sensational. I had far more nights when I got a fair amount of sleep on GS than those "sleepless" nights. On those "sleepless" nights, I was having the time of my life doing some interesting stuff and didn't need the sleep.

If you go into anything with the idea that it will be awful, then it will be. "A chance to cut is a chance to cure". Since I AM the hammer, everything that I see is a nail.

Trust me on this one, most men find women who play with sharp knives, very, very sexy. That husband had problems long before his wife went into surgery and that Emory piece is very dated (before the 80-hour work hour restriction).

 

[TheBoondocks]

Dude/Dudette, stop watching the telly. All of that stuff is done with an emphasis on the dramatic/sensational. I had far more nights when I got a fair amount of sleep on GS than those "sleepless" nights. On those "sleepless" nights, I was having the time of my life doing some interesting stuff and didn't need the sleep.

If you go into anything with the idea that it will be awful, then it will be. "A chance to cut is a chance to cure". Since I AM the hammer, everything that I see is a nail.

Trust me on this one, most men find women who play with sharp knives, very, very sexy. That husband had problems long before his wife went into surgery and that Emory piece is very dated (before the 80-hour work hour restriction).

thanks for the info. no, i don't think it'll be awful. I know it'll be a grind. i don't think most students really understand the sacrifice needed. I always prepare myself for the worst, that way it's always better than i expected. i don't sleep much on average 4-5 hours a night. but i assume it'll be different when im up because i have to versus free will. I'm sure it's awesome when you're doing a really cool procedure. i also find any woman who wants to cut attractive😍 i actually was wondering if the piece was pre 80 hours.

 

[Blade28]

Ah yes it's very different pulling an all-nighter for fun (watching movies, hanging out, partying, etc.) versus working in the hospital. 🙂

 

[OHMAN0125]

One has more patients than he can handle and makes more money than he can spend.

The other is a surgeon.

Oh yes Cardiology. The most hated medical specialty by all other specialties. Maybe they should learn to stop stealing other field's work. 😕

 

[Dr. Dukes]

thanks for the info. no, i don't think it'll be awful. I know it'll be a grind. i don't think most students really understand the sacrifice needed. I always prepare myself for the worst, that way it's always better than i expected. i don't sleep much on average 4-5 hours a night. but i assume it'll be different when im up because i have to versus free will. I'm sure it's awesome when you're doing a really cool procedure. i also find any woman who wants to cut attractive😍 i actually was wondering if the piece was pre 80 hours.

I find it hard to be self richeous about all my experience as an MSI (mostly because I don't have any), but you're not in med school yet. How are you going to comment about how students don't understand the sacrifice needed. Make it though your first set of exams in your pre-clinical years, then make it though a whole year, then both, then the boards, then clinicals, then the match, then talk about how "those kids these days" don't understand the sacrifice. They might, and they might not. Or maybe they do and they aren't willing to make it. Whatever reason, you're not in a position to talk about it, cause you haven't seen it. I haven't either, hence why I don't talk about how hard it is. You don't get to talk about the sacrifice until you've made it, and you don't get to criticize people who didn't make it until you made it.

 

[TheBoondocks]

I find it hard to be self richeous about all my experience as an MSI (mostly because I don't have any), but you're not in med school yet. How are you going to comment about how students don't understand the sacrifice needed. Make it though your first set of exams in your pre-clinical years, then make it though a whole year, then both, then the boards, then clinicals, then the match, then talk about how "those kids these days" don't understand the sacrifice. They might, and they might not. Or maybe they do and they aren't willing to make it. Whatever reason, you're not in a position to talk about it, cause you haven't seen it. I haven't either, hence why I don't talk about how hard it is. You don't get to talk about the sacrifice until you've made it, and you don't get to criticize people who didn't make it until you made it.

i was talking about fellow pre-meds at my school. not med students. that's why i always say from my experience. i know lots of people who want to be surgeons but don't realize how demanding residency will be. hell, a lot of them don't even know what residency is. should have clarified.

 

[Dr. Dukes]

i was talking about fellow pre-meds at my school. not med students. that's why i always say from my experience. i know lots of people who want to be surgeons but don't realize how demanding residency will be. hell, a lot of them don't even know what residency is. should have clarified.

Thats fine. When I was in college I remember a lot of my classmates were like that (more uninformed than everything else). My real point (save the little rant) is that its hard to know what its like till you're there, and even then its different for everyone.
Good luck with your classes, and don't forget to have fun while you're at it.

 

[Blade28]

Good luck with your classes, and don't forget to have fun while you're at it.

👍 👍