Career growth

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MDPsychologist

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I am a licensed psychologist in Maryland. I have been working in a group practice setting for the last 4 years. I feel that there is no career growth. Even newer opportunities don't seem to bring any career growth in group practice settings. I have been earning ~80-85k working part-time in two group practices (total patient load is 6-7 patients/day). The cut is 55-57% in both practices. I have tried to renegotiate the cut but doesn't seem to work. I am also looking for alternate places but most large group practices don't seem to pay well either. The best offer I have seen so far is a W2 position (fee-for-service model) with 401k, some stock options but with no paid vacation. I was told that seeing 6 patients/day would end up with earnings of 97k. Am I doing anything wrong? I also don't see much growth inthink group practice settings. I think about starting my own but get demotivated just thinking about having to deal with insurance stuff and getting lower reimbursement compared to working in group practices. I am wondering if people are/were in similar situations and how they got over it. I feel that the psychologist community in general is not helpful and collegial. I hope I am wrong with the forum members here and hoping to get some good advise/suggestion.

Thank you in advance!
 
OP, I don't think that you are doing anything wrong. Those numbers sound fairly average. You are simply hitting the wall of where basic clinical skills will get you. I would ask how many years have you been practicing? At the end of the day, you have a few different options if you want career growth:

1. Start your own practice. You know the split, so you know you are leaving money on the table. This means educating yourself in business. There are certainly some business savvy folks on this board. However, it is up to you if you want to focus on the business aspect or not.

2. Shop around and find a better split. This may or may not work. Not sure what you have tried.

3. See more patients/work more hours. Some of the higher earning folks here doing therapy, including myself, have seen more patients than you do. I used to see anywhere from 8-12 patients day in the past. If not, find a higher paying niche.

4. You live in Maryland, plenty of government and medical systems to work for there. The Dept. of Veterans Affairs will definitely pay you more than you are making in group practice. Not sure exactly where you live and whether that would fit your areas of practice.


Hope that gives you some ideas and gets the ball rolling here.
 
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Yeah, you're getting worked over in those group practices. You'd be doing significantly better in a VA or other larger system working the same hours. If you don't want to open up your own practice, I'd definitely look into institution jobs.
 
MDPsychologist said:
I am a licensed psychologist in Maryland. I have been working in a group practice setting for the last 4 years. I feel that there is no career growth. Even newer opportunities don't seem to bring any career growth in group practice settings. I have been earning ~80-85k working part-time in two group practices (total patient load is 6-7 patients/day). The cut is 55-57% in both practices. I have tried to renegotiate the cut but doesn't seem to work. I am also looking for alternate places but most large group practices don't seem to pay well either. The best offer I have seen so far is a W2 position (fee-for-service model) with 401k, some stock options but with no paid vacation. I was told that seeing 6 patients/day would end up with earnings of 97k. Am I doing anything wrong? I also don't see much growth inthink group practice settings. I think about starting my own but get demotivated just thinking about having to deal with insurance stuff and getting lower reimbursement compared to working in group practices. I am wondering if people are/were in similar situations and how they got over it. I feel that the psychologist community in general is not helpful and collegial. I hope I am wrong with the forum members here and hoping to get some good advise/suggestion.

Thank you in advance!
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Are you an actual employee or a contractor of some kind?
 
Sanman said:
you know you are leaving money on the table. This means educating yourself in business. There are certainly some business savvy folks on this board. However, it is up to you if you want to focus on the business aspect or not.

2. Shop around and find a better split. This may or may not work. Not sure what you have tried.
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psych.meout said:
Are you an actual employee or a contractor of some kind?
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Thanks for the suggestions. I am working as a contractor. I am not a US citizen as of yet so may not be eligible for VA jobs. I have been practicing for 4 years now but am dissatisfied with the payout. Because I do psychotherapy I feel more patients will end up in burnout so don't want to push it too much.
 
If that number is total compensation then that isn’t very good. Also, if you did the same amount of work for yourself, then you would have another 70k for overhead. You might want to see what office space costs. One nice thing is since you’re in two places part-time, you could hang onto one while you move into your own shop. How saturated is the area and what is your target market and how does current practice help with that and how would you market yourself? Insurance billing isnt actually that complicated and with my current software it is just about inputting the info once and then clicking a button to submit the claim. If the private route isn’t the direction you want to go, then as others said, look at agencies. Geographic flexibility can help.

Also, as an immigrant, does that give you an edge with a similar population? It could also be an additional barrier for some patients depending on language and culture. Patients do like someone that has a similar frame of reference or someone who has some familiarity with their background. As someone who started their training and grew up in a very diverse, multicultural location, that has helped me to connect well with a diverse clientele.
 
It sounds like the employers are exploitative... that sucks. But it also sounds like you're being passive as hell, which is blood in the water to these people.

1)Things you can correct
a. It would seem that you haven't educated yourself about business practices, which is screwing your negotiations.
i. How typical is it for a FFS contract to offer paid vacations? How would that be accomplished? How have you determined that this is a typical thing to ask for?
ii. What is the CMS reimbursement rate for all of Maryland? I know that. I know how much you gross. You should know that off the top of your head for negotiations? "I bring in X gross per year. You, Mr. Employer, get Y per year off of me. I would like more money or I leave."
iii. Let's say I am negotiating with an employee. They tell me "I can't be bothered to learn about billing. Without evidence, I think reimbursement is worse for the solo practitioner.". Is that a negotiation from strength? Or can I exploit that? This is how car financing at the dealership screws people.
iv. Why is a ~20%, 12-17k pay increase not worth it?!?
v. What do you mean "negotiations don't work"? Leave. Take the other job. "I have a job offer for 20% more with stock options. Can you beat that? No. Here is my letter of resignation.".
 
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As others have said, you're not getting a great deal from a straight money for time perspective. It sounds like you're working in a standard traditional therapy practice setting where you schedule patients for an hour *45-53 min," get nothing if they no show, and if I'm reading this correctly you're doing two part time practices across a 5 day work week? On another note it appears you aren't salaried

Consider what's more important to you time or money?

Do you want consistent pay and benefits or do you want more freedom and flexibility with your time and how you spend it?

I learned, perhaps the reality check hard way, that salaried work, especially in more traditional therapeutic one hour of therapy per patient often comes with burnout heavy productivity requirements and conditions. With little control over no shows, reschedules, etc. Sure you might get PTO, health insurance, and some other benefits but at what cost? You're often made to work 5 days a week 8+ hrs a day leaving little time for a side practice or side work should you want it with work/life balance. I know quite a few psychologists more than happy to make their $70-95k a year salaried 35+ billable hour a week required group practice jobs, but plenty others where it really doesn't go with their lifestyle and expectations. Neither is incorrect but one should know what they're getting into.

Figured out that, at least for me, W2 FFS work and some side contract work is the path for me. I'll gladly pay my own health insurance, take time when I want and how I want, and work less days per week. Freedom, flexibility, less stress about meeting some "numbers" to "earn my salary and benefits" were worth a risk of lower yearly income for me. But I also focus mainly on work based in healthcare systems and facilities with some limited group practice side work. So if a day is slow or can't work that day I can choose to "make up" the lost revenue if I want another day. I also feel better about knowing if I want to pivot, adjust ratio of time spent at one "job" over another, or even pick up some adjunct teaching or consulting I can make a change more easily. There's no 'moving up' or "career growth' in the traditional sense in many of these jobs, unless one wants to get more into the administrative non-direct work, but that's ok with me.

So another question to ask yourself is do you want to be a practitioner/provider mainly or do you see yourself "moving up" in an agency, company, etc and being a supervisor, boss, manager, or something like that?

It looks different for each person and sometimes it's trial and error finding what fits your life and expectations best. But others are right, you're not getting a great deal in your current situation and likely leaving opportunity and potentially more income on the table.
 
I worked in a very similar group practice setting for many years. I was similarly held back by thinking that "dealing with insurance stuff" was going to be soooo hard and it would be hard to find clients. I moved into a solo private practice two years ago and I wish I would have done it sooner! It was so much easier than I expected. I'm making much more money and feel a sense of pride in running my own business. I would urge you to talk to people running their own practices and see if that might be a good option for you!
 
quickpsych said:
As others have said, you're not getting a great deal from a straight money for time perspective. It sounds like you're working in a standard traditional therapy practice setting where you schedule patients for an hour *45-53 min," get nothing if they no show, and if I'm reading this correctly you're doing two part time practices across a 5 day work week? On another note it appears you aren't salaried

Consider what's more important to you time or money?

Do you want consistent pay and benefits or do you want more freedom and flexibility with your time and how you spend it?

I learned, perhaps the reality check hard way, that salaried work, especially in more traditional therapeutic one hour of therapy per patient often comes with burnout heavy productivity requirements and conditions. With little control over no shows, reschedules, etc. Sure you might get PTO, health insurance, and some other benefits but at what cost? You're often made to work 5 days a week 8+ hrs a day leaving little time for a side practice or side work should you want it with work/life balance. I know quite a few psychologists more than happy to make their $70-95k a year salaried 35+ billable hour a week required group practice jobs, but plenty others where it really doesn't go with their lifestyle and expectations. Neither is incorrect but one should know what they're getting into.

Figured out that, at least for me, W2 FFS work and some side contract work is the path for me. I'll gladly pay my own health insurance, take time when I want and how I want, and work less days per week. Freedom, flexibility, less stress about meeting some "numbers" to "earn my salary and benefits" were worth a risk of lower yearly income for me. But I also focus mainly on work based in healthcare systems and facilities with some limited group practice side work. So if a day is slow or can't work that day I can choose to "make up" the lost revenue if I want another day. I also feel better about knowing if I want to pivot, adjust ratio of time spent at one "job" over another, or even pick up some adjunct teaching or consulting I can make a change more easily. There's no 'moving up' or "career growth' in the traditional sense in many of these jobs, unless one wants to get more into the administrative non-direct work, but that's ok with me.

So another question to ask yourself is do you want to be a practitioner/provider mainly or do you see yourself "moving up" in an agency, company, etc and being a supervisor, boss, manager, or something like that?

It looks different for each person and sometimes it's trial and error finding what fits your life and expectations best. But others are right, you're not getting a great deal in your current situation and likely leaving opportunity and potentially more income on the table.
Click to expand...


I think that the fundamental question in this post bears repeating, OP. What does career growth mean to you? More money, more responsibility, a change in role? Keep in mind that those don't always happen together. I took a demotion for more money and fewer hours.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Maybe I missed it skimming the OP, but does that compensation health insurance? PTO? 401k match? Disability insurance? Before or after taxes?
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I believe the OP stated current employment was 1099 contractor at two practices, so no benefits. My assumption was that the numbers are gross based on the math but the OP can speak to that better.
 
Sanman said:
I believe the OP stated current employment was 1099 contractor at two practices, so no benefits. My assumption was that the numbers are gross based on the math but the OP can speak to that better.
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Can non-citizens work as contractors?
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Maybe I missed it skimming the OP, but does that compensation include health insurance? PTO? 401k match? Disability insurance? Before or after taxes?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. Yes there a 401k match. disability insurance. liability insurance. They have unpaid Time Off, the way they calculate salary is taking into account 48 work weeks.
 
Sanman said:
I think that the fundamental question in this post bears repeating, OP. What does career growth mean to you? More money, more responsibility, a change in role? Keep in mind that those don't always happen together. I took a demotion for more money and fewer hours.
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I was looking for a more managerial role possibly supervising a few. I do agree that you won't get everything.
 
MDPsychologist said:
I was looking for a more managerial role possibly supervising a few. I do agree that you won't get everything.
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Supervision of trainees certainly exists in group practices, but my first thought is that you'd have better luck being able to supervise trainees in settings that already are devoted to being training clinics of some kind. Might be worth looking specifically for settings that you know are training sites or including "supervising psychologist" or something similar in your job searches. Not sure where you are in Maryland, but from my experiences there tends to be more opportunities in the northeast compared to many other parts of the country (e.g., especially mid-west or the south), so that should be in your favor. If I were you, first thing I would do would be to start looking for opportunities outside of private practice.
 
MDPsychologist said:
Thanks for your response. Yes there a 401k match. disability insurance. liability insurance. They have unpaid Time Off, the way they calculate salary is taking into account 48 work weeks.
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run.

your contract job is leaving you to float the self employment tax and most things, but pretending to be a w4'd gig with the easier benefits. I assume their 401k match is low. you are paying way too much for health insurance, which is the biggest ticket benefit. the pay rate is low with how much overhead they take. unpaid vacation isn't a benefit. workweek calculated at 48 hours a week should pay way more. any Psychologist making less than 100k+ after a few years to get fully licensed (+etc) is leaving money on the table.
 
Justanothergrad said:
run.

your contract job is leaving you to float the self employment tax and most things, but pretending to be a w4'd gig with the easier benefits. I assume their 401k match is low. you are paying way too much for health insurance, which is the biggest ticket benefit. the pay rate is low with how much overhead they take. unpaid vacation isn't a benefit. workweek calculated at 48 hours a week should pay way more. any Psychologist making less than 100k+ after a few years to get fully licensed (+etc) is leaving money on the table.
Click to expand...

My read was that was referring to calculation of 48 working weeks out of the year when calculating salary, not 48 hour weeks. Still, I wholeheartedly agree that this is very much a **** deal for OP and that they can likely do much better.
 
MDPsychologist said:
I was looking for a more managerial role possibly supervising a few. I do agree that you won't get everything.
Click to expand...

I would perform a self analysis to define EXACTLY what benefit you provide to an employer. You absolutely bring in revenue. Do you have managerial experience and/or education? How common is that job? How common is that job for non EdD psychologists (EdDs are the most common degree for hospital CFOs, so it skews everything)? Why would someone hire you, rather than someone else?

You have some special talents. I have no idea what they are. But if you can't define those, and how those abilities financially benefit a business, you're screwed. You also have to be willing to walk away from a bad offer.
 
WisNeuro said:
My read was that was referring to calculation of 48 working weeks out of the year when calculating salary, not 48 hour weeks. Still, I wholeheartedly agree that this is very much a **** deal for OP and that they can likely do much better.
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ah. my bad. no coffee. still. thats not deal with 'unpaid vacation'.
 
MDPsychologist said:
I was looking for a more managerial role possibly supervising a few. I do agree that you won't get everything.
Click to expand...

Harry3990 said:
Supervision of trainees certainly exists in group practices, but my first thought is that you'd have better luck being able to supervise trainees in settings that already are devoted to being training clinics of some kind. Might be worth looking specifically for settings that you know are training sites or including "supervising psychologist" or something similar in your job searches. Not sure where you are in Maryland, but from my experiences there tends to be more opportunities in the northeast compared to many other parts of the country (e.g., especially mid-west or the south), so that should be in your favor. If I were you, first thing I would do would be to start looking for opportunities outside of private practice.
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PsyDr said:
I would perform a self analysis to define EXACTLY what benefit you provide to an employer. You absolutely bring in revenue. Do you have managerial experience and/or education? How common is that job? How common is that job for non EdD psychologists (EdDs are the most common degree for hospital CFOs, so it skews everything)? Why would someone hire you, rather than someone else?

You have some special talents. I have no idea what they are. But if you can't define those, and how those abilities financially benefit a business, you're screwed. You also have to be willing to walk away from a bad offer.
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As I mentioned before, are you expecting a pay bump with this added responsibility? You can supervise trainees at my current job with no added pay bump (though you get workload credit). Certainly, many places will allow this opportunity no or minimal extra cash to get supervisory experience. If you are expecting a pay bump, I would second @PsyDr's question. You can certainly join a bigger organization and work your way up. However, if you don't have managerial experience already, why would they give you a chance over an experienced manager or current employee? If they are offering you a management job with no experience, ask yourself why (hint: it is probably a bad job or a bad deal for you).
 
Justanothergrad said:
run.

your contract job is leaving you to float the self employment tax and most things, but pretending to be a w4'd gig with the easier benefits. I assume their 401k match is low. you are paying way too much for health insurance, which is the biggest ticket benefit. the pay rate is low with how much overhead they take. unpaid vacation isn't a benefit. workweek calculated at 48 hours a week should pay way more. any Psychologist making less than 100k+ after a few years to get fully licensed (+etc) is leaving money on the table.
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how many clinical hours would you consider full time? Seeing 8 patients a day?
 
MDPsychologist said:
how many clinical hours would you consider full time? Seeing 8 patients a day?
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That leaves zero time for admin work, for the most part, For therapy, it'd probably be 6-7/day for a 40 hr week, assuming all of the scheduling/non-note admin work was being taken care of by someone else.
 
MDPsychologist said:
how many clinical hours would you consider full time? Seeing 8 patients a day?
Click to expand...
To chime in as well, although I don't do full-time therapy, the numbers for most 40-hour/week salaried positions are similar to what WisNeuro said (i.e., 6 to 7 patients per day, assuming ~an hour per appointment). However, if a position is paying a well above average salary, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to expect the psychologist to potentially see more patients.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Yeah, for VA, I've most typically seen 32-ish hours or 90% time as the face-to-face patient contact requirement.
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Between my previous VA and now my new VA, they have increased it by 2 hours. In my previous VA, 30 hours was considered full time clinical, but back in April/May they bumped it up to 32 hours...it just so-happens that my new VA also considers 32 hours full time. They were like "find two hours in your grid." I was like "well, if I take out my lunches and skip some meetings during the week, then sure."
 
WisNeuro said:
Must be upping the requirments. We used to get by with 3-4 neuropsych evals/week. And 1-2 of those could be supervised cases with interns/postdocs.
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For neuropsych, at least IME, 4 evals/week generally equates to about 32 hours (especially if also considering the same number of feedback sessions). If the evals are averaged at 7 hours each and feedbacks at 1 hour each, you're all set.

The issue is when management doesn't realize that a significant chunk of neuropsych time isn't face-to-face, even though it's still clinical time. Fortunately, I never had to deal with management trying to schedule me for 32 hours of actual face-to-face neuropsych contact; otherwise I'd probably have had patients sitting in the room with me while I wrote.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
For neuropsych, at least IME, 4 evals/week generally equates to about 32 hours (especially if also considering the same number of feedback sessions). If the evals are averaged at 7 hours each and feedbacks at 1 hour each, you're all set.

The issue is when management doesn't realize that a significant chunk of neuropsych time isn't face-to-face, even though it's still clinical time. Fortunately, I never had to deal with management trying to schedule me for 32 hours of actual face-to-face neuropsych contact; otherwise I'd probably have had patients sitting in the room with me while I wrote.
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For VA evals, about that, for general dementia evals, I'd say I'm spending about 6 hours of actual time per pt, billable time depends on if you are over those time cutoffs.
 
WisNeuro said:
For VA evals, about that, for general dementia evals, I'd say I'm spending about 6 hours of actual time per pt, billable time depends on if you are over those time cutoffs.
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Yeah, I would always block my VA eval schedule for 7 hours just to be sure I had enough time, even if not all of the evals required that.
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
Between my previous VA and now my new VA, they have increased it by 2 hours. In my previous VA, 30 hours was considered full time clinical, but back in April/May they bumped it up to 32 hours...it just so-happens that my new VA also considers 32 hours full time. They were like "find two hours in your grid." I was like "well, if I take out my lunches and skip some meetings during the week, then sure."
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Does that mean 32 scheduled hours? If so, that doesn’t seem to bad to me given that some of those aren’t going to show up. Or do you have to make that up somehow? That would be ridiculous. Probably shouldn’t go to the meetings anyway 😁
 
smalltownpsych said:
Does that mean 32 scheduled hours? If so, that doesn’t seem to bad to me given that some of those aren’t going to show up. Or do you have to make that up somehow? That would be ridiculous. Probably shouldn’t go to the meetings anyway 😁
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Oh...these are scheduled hours. Yeah, I haven't hear (yet) about anything requiring me to make hours up should someone no show. Alternatively, I attended my first psychology practice meeting yesterday and was advised that in order to achieve "satisfactory" rating in my performance evaluation for the year, I have to offer a rotation for the internship and/or post-doc program here. I am not really on board with that. Notwithstanding the fact that I really have zero desire to supervise anybody (including trainees), there is an ethical aspect of this that doesn't well with me. In this case, as far as I know, the decision to be a supervisor should be made by the individual - whom, shall weigh the pros and cons of taking responsibility in supervising a trainee for a given skillset. Competency comes to mind with this. In effect, it's the proverbial "gun to the head" situation where the "gun" in this case is the satisfactory review vs. not should I not offer a training rotation.
 
smalltownpsych said:
Does that mean 32 scheduled hours? If so, that doesn’t seem to bad to me given that some of those aren’t going to show up. Or do you have to make that up somehow? That would be ridiculous. Probably shouldn’t go to the meetings anyway 😁
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I certainly can't speak for ohiopsychdoc, but I never saw folks who were directly required to "make up" for no-shows. At least not that I ever saw. And I never had to make up for any no-shows, but I was pretty consistently about my RVU targets.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
I certainly can't speak for ohiopsychdoc, but I never saw folks who were directly required to "make up" for no-shows. At least not that I ever saw. And I never had to make up for any no-shows, but I was pretty consistently about my RVU targets.
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Indeed - I somehow achieved 106% for a couple of months for my RVUs. I also do a decent amount of testing, so perhaps that offset the no shows.
 
This is why I like being detailed out in the boonies (even though in reality I am usually remote from home). I can teach/supervise what I want to without having a gun to my head. No one wants to travel to me, so I just shrug and point out I work in the middle of nowhere if someone puts a gun to my head. There are plenty of folks detailed to the main medical center voluntold to do so.
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
Indeed - I somehow achieved 106% for a couple of months for my RVUs. I also do a decent amount of testing, so perhaps that offset the no shows.
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I am at 114% for the year. Have to love the games.
 
Sanman said:
I am at 114% for the year. Have to love the games.
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You are doing great! lol, I honestly don't care about RVUs....but your numbers are impressive. Awesome job! I may consider remote work in the future. I have a laptop, already have a telework agreement in place and my VPN is set. Honestly, I think I will hang out here in SDTP for a year and wait to see if a C&P opening happens. They have a couple of C&P psychologists here, so who knows...
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
You are doing great! lol, I honestly don't care about RVUs....but your numbers are impressive. Awesome job! I may consider remote work in the future. I have a laptop, already have a telework agreement in place and my VPN is set. Honestly, I think I will hang out here in SDTP for a year and wait to see if a C&P opening happens. They have a couple of C&P psychologists here, so who knows...
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I promise you, it really is not. What is impressive is how little work I did for that 114%. The numbers are all made up and gaming the system is easy if you put your mind to it.
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
You are doing great! lol, I honestly don't care about RVUs....but your numbers are impressive. Awesome job! I may consider remote work in the future. I have a laptop, already have a telework agreement in place and my VPN is set. Honestly, I think I will hang out here in SDTP for a year and wait to see if a C&P opening happens. They have a couple of C&P psychologists here, so who knows...
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You want to work in C&P?
 
WisNeuro said:
You want to work in C&P?
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I do. I was doing SSD evaluations outside of the VA back in Ohio. It was a good way to get my foot in the door doing civil forensic work. I want to continue doing that as I work towards ABPP. I am also one who prefers testing and assessments vs. therapy.
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
Oh...these are scheduled hours. Yeah, I haven't hear (yet) about anything requiring me to make hours up should someone no show. Alternatively, I attended my first psychology practice meeting yesterday and was advised that in order to achieve "satisfactory" rating in my performance evaluation for the year, I have to offer a rotation for the internship and/or post-doc program here. I am not really on board with that. Notwithstanding the fact that I really have zero desire to supervise anybody (including trainees), there is an ethical aspect of this that doesn't well with me. In this case, as far as I know, the decision to be a supervisor should be made by the individual - whom, shall weigh the pros and cons of taking responsibility in supervising a trainee for a given skillset. Competency comes to mind with this. In effect, it's the proverbial "gun to the head" situation where the "gun" in this case is the satisfactory review vs. not should I not offer a training rotation.
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I could be wrong, but part of the VA system is that their hospitals are teaching facilities so I understand their point. I also think that if they have a productive provider who is meeting their patients needs, then they should be able to make it work, but it’s hard for systems to be flexible.
 
ohiopsychdoc said:
I do. I was doing SSD evaluations outside of the VA back in Ohio. It was a good way to get my foot in the door doing civil forensic work. I want to continue doing that as I work towards ABPP. I am also one who prefers testing and assessments vs. therapy.
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I like forensic work, just not C&P forensic work. You don't get the bump in pay like you do in the outside world, and way too much red tape, though i assume that varies depending on your area. At least for your neck of the woods, C&P was a rubber stamp factory when I was down there.
 
Maybe. I "hear you." I suppose my thinking is coming from multiple points of consideration. On one hand, at my previous VA, they did not require psychologists to be rotation supervisors; it was a choice. Alternatively, this VA does require it evidently. I also want to echo my previous statement about the ethical aspect of this where I might be matched with a trainee to supervise and may not be 100% competent in those services. Outside of the brief "supervision" stint during internship and my course I took in school, I don't feel confident in my supervisory abilities. I would hate for that to be the result of a board complaint, which, funny enough in Ohio, there were several board complaints regarding inadequate supervision.
 
WisNeuro said:
I like forensic work, just not C&P forensic work. You don't get the bump in pay like you do in the outside world, and way too much red tape, though i assume that varies depending on your area. At least for your neck of the woods, C&P was a rubber stamp factory when I was down there.
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You are probably right. I suppose since I am so new and an ECP, the trade off is that I am getting exposure and experience. At some point, as I hone my skills, expand my professional network, I'd likely be poised to take on more fulfilling/lucrative forensic work.
 
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