Career/Vet School Doubts

[JoShappo]

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Hi everyone,
I applied to vet school this fall and upon having some major concerns in the profession applied to PA school as well. I'm worried about the long hours and not getting paid very much. I would like to be a mother someday and would like to have time to spend with my kids, while still making enough money to support a family. I am interested in doing equine medicine. Although, I'm afraid as an equine vet I will never have the time to spend with my own horse. Further, I would like time to be able to pursue other interests in my life. I have discussed this with three small animal vets I work for, and all agreed these are majors problems with being a vet. Any one have any input? Any advice on how to balance a life with work, or is it really difficult? Any idea of better hours and pay working as a specialist? I know no one can make this decision for me but I appreciate seeing other people's perspectives. Thanks for your comments!

 

[agr1365]

First of all. Follow your heart. Second of all...a friend of mine is a mother of two (both under the age of 5) and is starting vet school this fall with me. If you want it bad enough, you'll make it work. Third, as a professional you'll be able to schedule your own hours and work as hard as you see fit. Fourth, if don't want to give up a few years of your life towards this profession it may not be for you. Fifth, if you do go to vet school and then decide not to practice then you've wasted your education and someone else, who could have been a great DVM, was possibly declined. My suggestion, think long and hard about your choices and be prepared to face the facts of the profession.

 

[Fairyblastt]

Another note, not all good dvms go into practice, there are many, many different careers in science that a dvm prepares you for. While many of these careers (like research, public health, ect) may require more than vet school (and so a bigger time input up front)... not everyone with a dvm is your stereotypical local vet in practice. Just a reminder, lol.

 

[agr1365]

Very, very good point. It is hard sometimes to get that stereotypical idea of a veterinarian out of our brains. Excellent point.

 

[silverelf]

i work for a small animal orthopedic surgeon...for him it was a long hard road to get to where he is today...there is a lot of extra "schooling" beyond the 4 yr DVM program to specialize, and continued schooling if you want to stay active with your speciality (for example, he had to take a course when the TPLO procedure was first introduced in orthopedics so he could learn the procedure and use it in his practice). He also worked long and hard to establish referral relationships with surrounding hospitals and also to make his general practice part of his business profitable to the point where he could exclusively do surgeries.

That being said, he now has the job he always dreamed of...he does exclusively surgery and referral appts and is such a well-known surgeon in our area that he also does a lot of soft tissue work as well. He works the hours he wants to when he wants to and makes enough money that working part-time (or full-time, if we're busy and he's in the mood) still supports him and his wife...but it took him awhile because he never wanted to sacrifice his family for work. Its do-able but being a surgeon or any other type of specialist doesn't give you the "instant win" paycheck, you still have to work to build a clientele and your reputation.

 

[thesonofdarwin]

I'll add that it can be done. My vet is a prime example. Graduated from Penn working on equine, raised a family, and as he nears retirement he has dropped equine and concentrated on the reliable semi-consistency of small animal. He spends a lot of his extra time attending horse shows and such. But, he told me many stories where he had to just drop what he was doing at home to take care of his patients, which doesn't seem too out-of-the-ordinary for someone in medicine.

 

[InfiniVet]

Yeah, no offense at all, but these questions are probably better asked of oneself before even applying (and paying all those stupid fees! =) ). Its typically part of the application essay too - "Yes, I have critically re-evaulated this decision and decided I NEED to be a veterinarian in order to live."
I'm female and I work for 2 small animal vets. One tells me he'd never hire me as a vet because he thinks I wouldn't work very hard and 5 years into my career decide to quit in order to have kids. The other one says he'd hire a female vet in a heartbeat so that when I do have kids, I can work part time and he could work part time and it would work out for both of us.
From my experience working in equine veterinary medicine, you need to be the best of the best in your area in order to make a dime over $40k/yr. Horse owners are nuts, they only want the best care, for the lowest price - they're simply awful to have as clients, and the work is dangerous (and I can say that because I have 3 horses!). Either that or you can be a track vet, and let the trainer make all the decisions for you but you at least make good money. Also, equine vet is rarely 9-5...unless you're the best in your area, again.
For me, I feel like I was born to be a vet, I've never seriously considered another career, I'd do it for $5/hr if that's what it paid, and I hardly consider it work so the hours are irrelevant to me.
If I start a family, I'd probably scale back to part time and do small animal since that pays the best, or go into something safe with reliable income like FDA carcass inspection or something.
PA's on the other hand, are a dime a dozen, and work long hours, no matter what. You can't set your own hours or customize your practice. The schooling is just about as tough as it is to be an M.D. except guess what? You won't be an M.D.
Go to dental school instead. 4 yrs of college, bout the same toughness as medical school, you work 30 hours/week and make 150-300k year, own your own practice, and theres never an emergency or mortalities to deal with. Refer all the tough cases to specialists and they refer cavities to you. Its the sweetest job for those who like medicine, have a good GPA, but haven't got the feeling they "NEED to be a vet or a M.D."
Just my 2 cents

 

[bubbles525]

Anything CAN be done. It's what your willing to do to make it happen. Long hours are a must for any non-independantly wealthy American (or stay at home for a high income household). The middle class in the US works more hours than any european country and saves less money for the future. How much do you need to be a vet?

 

[mistifical]

Go to dental school instead.

Am I the only person who has wondered why people choose to go to dental school? Obviously, teeth are not a huge interest of mine, but I have asked several pre-dent students why they chose dentistry... and I can't get an answer from them that seems... oh, I can't think of the word... but its certainly not like any of our answers for "why do you want to be a vet?" Has anybody else observed the same thing? Don't get me wrong... I'm glad there are people out there that want to be dentists... just like I'm glad there's people who enjoy accounting and economics...

Sorry, just a little rant. Oh, and I have a dentist appointment next week that I really don't look forward to...

Anyways, back onto the real topic... if you ONLY want to be an equine vet and are reconsidering the whole thing because of time/money/future family... maybe this isn't for you. However, there's a ton of areas in vetmed that I'm sure many of us have not even considered as a career possibility that we could be very happy and successful in. If you really do want to be a vet, I say go for it and I'm sure you can make it work. By the way... what have you heard back from schools so far??

 

[twosoakers]

I am currently writing my dissertation in literature, and I'm walking away from a 20 hour/week job, making 60k a year as a prof., and walking into a career that's 60 hour/week, making 60k a year. You need to love it.

 

[sambone]

m I the only person who has wondered why people choose to go to dental school? Obviously, teeth are not a huge interest of mine, but I have asked several pre-dent students why they chose dentistry... and I can't get an answer from them that seems... oh, I can't think of the word... but its certainly not like any of our answers for "why do you want to be a vet?" Has anybody else observed the same thing? Don't get me wrong... I'm glad there are people out there that want to be dentists... just like I'm glad there's people who enjoy accounting and economics...

Sorry, just a little rant. Oh, and I have a dentist appointment next week that I really don't look forward to...

Funny you should mention that. A Polar Bear at the Pittsburgh Zoo had a root canal last weekend, and a human dentist assisted for free. I'm pretty sure that bear got a better root canal than I did...I just had the most miserable root canal today and my dentist couldnt finish it so I have to go back in 2 weeks...

Anyhow, I used to want to be a dentist. If you like people, are interested in health/science, are good with your hands and love doing really small, intricate work I think it'd be awesome. I'd just rather be doing it on animals!

 

[mistifical]

Funny you should mention that. A Polar Bear at the Pittsburgh Zoo had a root canal last weekend, and a human dentist assisted for free. I'm pretty sure that bear got a better root canal than I did...I just had the most miserable root canal today and my dentist couldnt finish it so I have to go back in 2 weeks...

Anyhow, I used to want to be a dentist. If you like people, are interested in health/science, are good with your hands and love doing really small, intricate work I think it'd be awesome. I'd just rather be doing it on animals!

I'm glad/lucky I didn't need a root canal! I used to have great teeth. Eating/drinking habits haven't changed, brushing/flossing habits haven't changed... I go to the dentist for the first time in 7 years... 14 cavities!!! And 3 years ago when I had my wisdom teeth taken out he said I had stellar teeth... what the hell happened? Or is my dentist just trying to get some new fancy equipment? Whatever it is, I've spent close to 5 hours getting them filled so far and still not done...

 

[JoShappo]

To add to the dentist rant... I have a friend that went to dental school because she liked medicine but couldn't handle the gore of working with patients. But, I read somewhere (can't remember where so I don't know how reliable of a source it is) that dentists have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession. As far as schools go, I was offered an interview at KSU, Washington State, and University of Minnesota. I am waiting to hear from CSU and Penn State. I also applied to Madison, but they don't have an interview so it will be awhile until I hear anything from them. And to add more to above comments, I know there are many other options in vet med. It's just hard because there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about them, such as typical duties, hours, salary, and ease of finding a job. I know it's about doing what you love, but there are a lot of things I love in life and I would like to find a good balance. I am just over analytical and probably thinking things through too much, but in reply to an above comment by agr1365... I have thought LONG and HARD already about these decisions, and that's why I have many questions and doubts. Also, I think it is a fallacy to say that because " you are a professional you'll be able to set your own schedule and work as hard as you see fit" Unless I've had some crazy unusual experience (which would be strange considering I've worked in numerous small animal clinics, a large animal clinic, and with a shelter vet) it is NOT that way in vet med. Especially if you are self-employed because you have many outside things to worry about such as staffing, scheduling, etc... along with the fact that you need to make sure your business makes money! Also, you have to worry about making an impression on your clientele... if someone comes in at 5:30 for vaccines and brings up something they think is a "minor" problem that turns out to require extensive bloodwork, you can't just say, well it's 6:00 and I'm technically off so I'm going home. And from my experience this occurs more often than not... ESPECIALLY on Friday night. Sorry for the rant, I just don't want everyone thinking I haven't "thought hard" about my decision. I don't know, maybe I'm just intimidated or scared of having an "open" future. I just know so many vets that have burnt out and lost their passion for animals after being a vet. I worked for a vet that went to vet school at ~40. Prior to going, she asked 19 vets if they could go back and do it over again, if they would. 17 out of 19 said they would've chosen a different profession but she still went to vet school. She quit doing medicine 3 years after getting out of school. And before everyone jumps down my back, I know this is just one opinion, and I obviously love the profession or I wouldn't have spent so much time working/volunteering/researching it... I'm just trying to be the devils advocate and point out some of the reasons I have doubts. And on this note, it is great to take the notion to say "do what your heart tells you" or what you love... but certain circumstances can make doing what you love miserable. Maybe I've just had the unfortunate experience of working with a crop of vets that aren't satisified with their jobs. And one more thing, all of these vets have said they wished they would've specialized instead of doing GP, but the amount of schooling and work that entails is highly intimidating to me. Ok I'm done ranting... sorry! Just feels good to share this with people that don't know me at all and may have the same feelings.

 

[Cheska]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning being a vet- it just shows that you know the realities of the career. There are a lot of pros and cons to the lifestyle of being a vet, there are ways that you can avoid some of it (work part time, work outside of private practice, etc.)

The hours are not always great, neither is the pay or the cost to attend, but if there is nothing else you would rather do, then you are stuck- like I am. I have applied multiple years (had too much "fun" in my first undergrad degree), I have worked with some truly awful vets- that really really made me question what I was getting into! I tried some other jobs, but being a vet is what I always came back to- so I will continue to apply to vet school until I am old and gray, and maybe longer.... 🙂

My bf is a 2002 vet school grad- I have watched his career from the beginning, the ups and downs... they happen, you can't escape it. Most of the time he loves the work, but on the bad days he wishes he was flipping burgers. Vet med becomes your life, but it helps to have other hobbies, someone to listen to you rant about a bad day, and sometimes a pint of beer.
Sometimes it seems to be "a calling" as it is for clergy.

 

[JoShappo]

Thanks for your reply! That is exactly how I've felt through my undergrad... trying to see if there is something else I would rather do and I always ended up at vet med. The thing is, in the past few months after considering PA school, I have conflicted feelings inside, and no longer have that intrinsic urge to be a vet. Well, it's still there but it's also being tugged by an urge to be a PA. That's why I've become obsessed with trying to figure out my doubts/concerns with both, so that maybe something will spark me to feel confident choosing one.

 

[mistifical]

Thanks for your reply! That is exactly how I've felt through my undergrad... trying to see if there is something else I would rather do and I always ended up at vet med. The thing is, in the past few months after considering PA school, I have conflicted feelings inside, and no longer have that intrinsic urge to be a vet. Well, it's still there but it's also being tugged by an urge to be a PA. That's why I've become obsessed with trying to figure out my doubts/concerns with both, so that maybe something will spark me to feel confident choosing one.

Perhaps the fact that you applied to both PA school and vet school this year says something about what you should be doing... maybe you would be better off taking next year "off" and exploring your options. Obviously, you don't want to start a program, put the time and money into it, and change your mind... but then again, depending on the type of person you are, maybe thats what you need to make that decision. I started my undergrad work when i was 17, and the only reason I went to college is because I was under the impression that that was what you were supposed to do after high school, not because I had a particular goal in mind... and I can't say I performed very well. I advise my younger friends to take some time off from college if they find themselves in that situation. Anyways, maybe a year off would be good for you, I guess thats my point. Unless you can quickly make a decision that you are confident and happy with.

 

[ratbandit]

There’s nothing wrong with having doubts about something your about to dedicate the rest of your life too, not to mention the cost. I think JoShappo has maturely recognized the conflicts that being a vet will have on her other priorities. It’s not a reflection on a passion for the profession – it just means she has other passions as well. It seems there’s a huge range for working environments/salaries/hours for vets. I have worked in a shelter with two vets who were 9-5 every day and took turns being on call for weekends - they probably made about 60K. I also worked with an orthopedic specialist (it was in the Philly suburbs so she was pretty wealthy) who made her own hours and though they were somewhat sporadic, she probably worked about 30 hours/week. The vet at the shelter also worked for Banfield part time when she needed extra money. I guess my point is that you can make it work by being flexible, luckily there are a lot of options out there for us. Don’t feel like if you can’t live without being a vet that its not the right choice for you. At the end of the day, it’s not your profession that makes you happy, it can be a big part, but its ok to say “even if I was a vet, I would not be satisfied with my life without a family, and a horse to ride J " Though it might feel like it now, being accepted is not going to be the key to contentment – recognizing the other things in life that satisfy you is half the battle! Obviously dedication and passion for the field is essential, but like I said, you can make it work if your willing to put in the time and have the flexibility.

 

[seaturtlegirl]

So well said, ratbandit! As for myself, all of my other friends who are applicants/current vet students were always certain they needed to be a vet. On the other hand, I considered other avenues for my life as well. Perhaps this is as much a personality quirk as anything else! I like to relate it to getting "cold feet" before you get married! Commitment of any kind can always be a bit scary, but that's normal, isn't it? I mean, I sometimes wonder if and when I will ever stop shedding a tear for each animal we couldn't save, but then, I don't know if I want to stop...

Being a vet isn't easy, but you sound like the kind of person who knows what's important to you, and you will make the time for those things! Maybe you considered PA school to have an "out", but based on the number of interviews you have, perhaps your history is telling you (and the adcoms) what you are best suited for. If you have put that much time and effort into it already, maybe you already know what you want...

And remember, all professions have their pros and cons...so, when you are old a retired, what career will have pleased you the most?

 

[KittenKiller]

Marry a rich husband and work part time. Plenty of rich medical students around many of the vet schools!

(Alright somewhat tongue in cheek but a disproportionate number of the female veterinarians I know work part time and have doctor husbands)

 

[cyrille104]

Marry a rich husband and work part time. Plenty of rich medical students around many of the vet schools!

(Alright somewhat tongue in cheek but a disproportionate number of the female veterinarians I know work part time and have doctor husbands)

If that's really anyone's plan I think that the spot would be better filled by someone who would actually do something meaningful with the degree.

 

[bostonT]

I can relate to what a lot of you are saying. I have been having some doubts of my own lately. Tonight in one of my classes I ran across this quote and it made me feel better about my situation:

"If a man will begin in certainties he shall end in doubt; but if he will be content to begin in doubts he shall end in certainties"- Francis Bacon

So if you are having doubts like I am, I is okay. A good thing to do now is to educate yourself on all your options. That way when it comes time to make a decision, you can feel confident, even if it was not your initial goal.

 

[dpcdoc]

Just my 2 cents. I will be leaving the military after 21 years of service and applying to Vet school this Fall. A lot of my peers have left the military and began new careers with 6 figure salaries. They think I am nuts to start a 4 year program, possibly going into huge debt in the process (depending on where I get in), earn a nominal starting salary, and all with a wife and 3 children to feed. Although my bride is an RN who does work. My answer to all is that I am not entering this profession for the money and have no dreams of fortune. I think you have to take a hard introspective look at what motivates you in life and where your passions lie and follow your heart. It is seldom wrong. A PA may earn a better living than a DVM, but will you be happy? They say your heart is the compass of your life, follow it and your course will remain true. Good luck to you and best wishes.

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Hey, I just wanted to also say that I'm having a lot of doubts currently as well. How hard is this going to be? Will I succeed? and What do I do if I don't? I also would like to have a family one day but I also know that I'm a driven person who isn't content not working for what I feel passionate about. And being an older than average student (28) is making me feel a little more self-conscious and out of the loop. However, I'm going to keep telling myself that because we are about to embark on a life altering path that its common to have doubts and fears. I know that I wouldn't be happier doing any other job but I also want very much to excel at what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm hoping that its normal to have some fears about all of this. I know it will be nothing compared to the stress of actually being in school but this is still an exciting and stressful time nonetheless.

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Hey, I just wanted to also say that I'm having a lot of doubts currently as well. How hard is this going to be? Will I succeed? and What do I do if I don't? I also would like to have a family one day but I also know that I'm a driven person who isn't content not working for what I feel passionate about. And being an older than average student (28) is making me feel a little more self-conscious and out of the loop. However, I'm going to keep telling myself that because we are about to embark on a life altering path that its common to have doubts and fears. I know that I wouldn't be happier doing any other job but I also want very much to excel at what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm hoping that its normal to have some fears about all of this. I know it will be nothing compared to the stress of actually being in school but this is still an exciting and stressful time nonetheless.

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Sorry for the double post. Ooops!

 

[KittenKiller]

If that's really anyone's plan I think that the spot would be better filled by someone who would actually do something meaningful with the degree.

I think that's a little insulting to people who work part time. Just because you dont work 50+ hours a week trying to keep your business running doesnt mean you aren't a good veterinarian. There are plenty of part time vets who arent the primary breadwinners in their families and are still good vets. I put it kind of jokingly, but there are options for people who want families and still want to be veterinarians. Feel better if I say marry a mcdonalds cashier instead of a rich doctor? 😉 That works too. You just need family support - itd be much harder on your own.
(And mind you, the situation can be reversed for men who want to spend more time with their kids)

Jessica

PS Contrary to popular belief, I try not to kill kittens.

 

[KittenKiller]

I will be leaving the military after 21 years of service and applying to Vet school this Fall.

Thats awesome, congratulations and good luck!

 

[seaturtlegirl]

Hi dpdoc! I think that a career change such as yours is incredible! I grew up as an army brat myself! I'm sure you already know, but the military offers a lot in the way of tuition assistance in the form of scholarships, the GI bill, etc. There is also a health science scholarship in which the military will pay for all of the costs of school, with a monthly stipend to boot. (of course, nothing is free, and they want 1 year of active duty for each year they pay!)
Still, since you have a family, I would research the benefits that you have earned as a result of your service!

Good luck!

 

[Cheska]

If that's really anyone's plan I think that the spot would be better filled by someone who would actually do something meaningful with the degree.

Like it or not, many veterinarians are heading in the part-time direction... with/or without that MD spouse. With such a high percentage of women in the profession who "want to have it all" - guilty I want it all too, so if it means I work part time for a while in the future to spend time with my family, then that is life. I can honestly say that I would never trade my DVM spouse for an MD any day- we just will never own a boat or a fancy car... oh well 😀

There will be people with intentions to marry rich and work a little... until you are on the admissions committee seeking them out and turning them down, it can't be changed. Besides who are any of us to say that one with those intentions does not deserve to get in??? To get in, you have to work hard to get the grades and experience. If you win the lottery and want to work 20 hrs/week- who cares, you are doing what makes you happy in life and who says that your life is not meaningful???

Personally I found "kitten killers" comment funny, and we all need to have a few things to laugh at, especially right now, things are stressful enough right now with all the hearing and not hearing from schools.

 

[cyrille104]

Like it or not, many veterinarians are heading in the part-time direction... with/or without that MD spouse. With such a high percentage of women in the profession who "want to have it all" - guilty I want it all too, so if it means I work part time for a while in the future to spend time with my family, then that is life. I can honestly say that I would never trade my DVM spouse for an MD any day- we just will never own a boat or a fancy car... oh well 😀

There will be people with intentions to marry rich and work a little... until you are on the admissions committee seeking them out and turning them down, it can't be changed. Besides who are any of us to say that one with those intentions does not deserve to get in??? To get in, you have to work hard to get the grades and experience. If you win the lottery and want to work 20 hrs/week- who cares, you are doing what makes you happy in life and who says that your life is not meaningful???

Personally I found "kitten killers" comment funny, and we all need to have a few things to laugh at, especially right now, things are stressful enough right now with all the hearing and not hearing from schools.

We have enough vets in small animal clinics. We need people ready to devote their careers to LA, wildlife/conservation, research...and people who just want a DVM to work 20 hrs/wk in a small animal clinic really aren't helping the situation. Justify it to yourself however you want, it's a waste of a degree. If I were going to do that I'd just get some other job with animals that doesn't require 4 years of my life.

Also, what evidence do you have that vets are going part-time? I haven't heard this or seen this anywhere. Are you just assuming that because the profession is becoming dominated by females that they're going to work less? I'm not sure where you're coming from.

 

[KittenKiller]

We have enough vets in small animal clinics. We need people ready to devote their careers to LA, wildlife/conservation, research...and people who just want a DVM to work 20 hrs/wk in a small animal clinic really aren't helping the situation. Justify it to yourself however you want, it's a waste of a degree. If I were going to do that I'd just get some other job with animals that doesn't require 4 years of my life.

Well you might run into some trouble when you discover into the massive lack of funding for wildlife programs. Itd be nice if so many veterinarians could devote themselves to protecting fragile ecosystems and endangered species but Im afraid small animal clinics are where the money is, and ergo where the jobs are. These days pet owners are willing to part with ever increasing amounts of their cash for their pets' health. Elaborate dentistry, chemotherapy, and prozac for dogs and cats are just of few common treatments that were nearly (or totally) unheard of thirty years ago, and this is all because pet owners are investing more in their pets. In the small animal clinic I worked as a receptionist, clients rarely walked out with bills under $300, and bills over $1000 were far from unheard of. So whether or not you like it, these "waste of a degree" vets are in the highest demand in the industry, and working full time or part time, are poised to be the most financially successful.

Jessica

P.S. I have no intention of becoming a small animal vet, its just the reality of the situation from what Ive seen.

 

[AuburnPreVet]

A few quick points:

1) The vast majority of people entering vet school planning to do large animal will end up in small animal practice (just my observation)

2) Although small animal bills tend to be larger, I think if you've ever been on the other side of that granite countertop, you'd realize that very few clinics are laughing all the way to the bank.

3) Small animal hours can be as brutal as large animal - this magical image of coming in at 10am - doing a few physicals, vaccinating a kitten & running back home in the BMW after a 4 hour shift is rather rare.

 

[Cheska]

We have enough vets in small animal clinics. We need people ready to devote their careers to LA, wildlife/conservation, research...and people who just want a DVM to work 20 hrs/wk in a small animal clinic really aren't helping the situation. Justify it to yourself however you want, it's a waste of a degree. If I were going to do that I'd just get some other job with animals that doesn't require 4 years of my life.

Also, what evidence do you have that vets are going part-time? I haven't heard this or seen this anywhere. Are you just assuming that because the profession is becoming dominated by females that they're going to work less? I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Evidence of Veterinarians going part time: read any issue of DVM Newsmagazine recently- they have a great six-part panel discussion that started in October about top professional issues facing vet med for example- part-time and women in the field is mentioned several times. This could also be more predominant issue here in the west- there is always a mention of it at pre-vet discussions at CSU... In Arizona and California, vets will give their right arm for another veterinarian entering their practice-- even these "waste of a degree small animal vets" as you see them.

I do agree that there is a huge shortage of large animal vets and rural vets, but there is also a shortage of small family farms now. For anyone who wants to practice long hours at an enormous dairy or pig farm, you are very noble. AuburnPreVet is right- you will have plenty of classmates who enter veterinary school with plans of being LA vets- but sooner or later many of them see the pros of turning to "the dark side" 😀 of SA vet med. It definitely happened with my bf's vet school class and in our family.
My uncle is a great example- he started out in a Wisconsin dairy practice, had three kids he rarely saw and realized that. So he opened a small animal practice in OH- it wasn't what he planned, but it works better for him. Now the practice has grown so much he had to add a part-time female small animal vet- oh no!!

Now I am sticking up for the SA part-timers, I think it is unfair to just judge their dreams as not worth while. The problem exists, and there are people doing good things to help alter the situation- look at the CSU food animal incentive. BUT this forum is here for us to help each other, not to judge each other as not being meaningful. In all honesty I want to have a rural practice where I see it all, especially hobby farm animals- and yes, I will probably contribute to the issue and hire a part time SA person when my practice grows. There is no easy solution, just education of other pre-vets.

 

[youthman]

From a previous post (DVM News):
....There are 17 veterinarians in California per 100,000 people compared to a national veterinarian-to-population average of 27. Roughly 6,000 veterinarians are working in the state, but if California were to meet the current national average, an additional 3,367 DVMs would be needed. With a population expected to reach 44 million by 2020, officials estimate 725 veterinarians are needed each year in California to address retirement, growth and demand....

sounds like plenty of room for SA vets in California to me

 

[KittenKiller]

From a previous post (DVM News):
....There are 17 veterinarians in California per 100,000 people compared to a national veterinarian-to-population average of 27. Roughly 6,000 veterinarians are working in the state, but if California were to meet the current national average, an additional 3,367 DVMs would be needed. With a population expected to reach 44 million by 2020, officials estimate 725 veterinarians are needed each year in California to address retirement, growth and demand....

sounds like plenty of room for SA vets in California to me

The part I dont get is its not like there's not a whole truckload of people who would love to fill these spots, but there just aren't enough veterinary schools in the country. I'm surprised more universities arent opening up veterinary schools to meet this demand. It seems like it'd be very lucrative for the schools. As it stands, an increasing number of people are just going to school internationally to get their licence.

 

[sisiut1]

The part I dont get is its not like there's not a whole truckload of people who would love to fill these spots, but there just aren't enough veterinary schools in the country. I'm surprised more universities arent opening up veterinary schools to meet this demand. It seems like it'd be very lucrative for the schools. As it stands, an increasing number of people are just going to school internationally to get their licence.

But at the same time more vets would mean more competition in certain areas and that often leads to reduced prices for services and lower salaries. Even though I would hope someone would want to pay for a high quality vet, most (but not all) seem to want the lowest prices they can get.

 

[Emio]

3) Small animal hours can be as brutal as large animal - this magical image of coming in at 10am - doing a few physicals, vaccinating a kitten & running back home in the BMW after a 4 hour shift is rather rare.

agreed on teh 'rare,' but just as an aside, the SA vet for whom i work keeps a very small clientele base as she's the only doctor at the practice. surgeries once a week, most days are primarily well visits with the occasional fat lab with arthritis appointment. never in before 9am, usually leaves around 5 or 6 (except her two late days - 8 pm), and has off every single thursday. and she doesn't drive home in a BMW; its a Corvette. 😍

Now the practice has grown so much he had to add a part-time female small animal vet- oh no!!

i lol'd!

to the OP: i'm of the crowd that thinks if you're not breathing and pissing vetlife, it may not be for you. or the vetlife i imagine for me, may not be for you. i also believe there are ways to make absolutely anything your heart desires come true. like the military guy and lynyrd skynyrd said: "follow your heart and nothing else."

 

[youthman]

Keep in mind there are plenty of vets that breathe and piss vetlife to the point where they are burnt out by the time they are 40 years old and say "if I could do it again I'd do something else." Balance in life is essential to maintaining happiness in your career well into your 40s, 50s, and even 60s.

 

[Emio]

good point, youthman, but i think there's a difference in what you need to live and over indulging. if for one vetlife is comparable to a decadent chocolate cake, yeah, its really really good for 20 years, then you just want a damn apple. if its comparable to the air you breathe, you don't really get sick of it. its a necessity, and its unlikely to wear you down.

there is a lot of talk of burnt out vets. there are a lot of vets that even if they were PAID to make a different choice, they wouldnt give up what they have. i intend to be of the latter aggregation.

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Well, Not to rain on anyone's parade or anything but this forum has sort of gotten away from its original intentions. And I think its fair to say that we have to agree to disagree about what we want and expect from vet school and the vet profession. We can all speak of our great intentions right now but alot of things change in just a few short years.

 

[cyrille104]

Well, Not to rain on anyone's parade or anything but this forum has sort of gotten away from its original intentions. And I think its fair to say that we have to agree to disagree about what we want and expect from vet school and the vet profession. We can all speak of our great intentions right now but alot of things change in just a few short years.

That's a good point. I can sit here and say that if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, and others can say that they can have whatever plans they want for the future...but we're not even in vet school yet. How can we be so sure that we know what we're going to be doing after?

 

[Lycaonpictus]

To add to the dentist rant... I have a friend that went to dental school because she liked medicine but couldn't handle the gore of working with patients. But, I read somewhere (can't remember where so I don't know how reliable of a source it is) that dentists have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession.





In the U.K. Suicide rates for veterinary surgeons were four times the national average and twice that of dentists and doctors!

 

[youthman]

I actually enjoy doing teeth cleanings on dogs/cats and think dentistry is pretty interesting. But, I think almost everything with animals is interesting. With humans, that's another story.

 

[TurboVet]

hey guys, i've been having doubts too. i read a grad fin aid book last night that gave you the recommended salary for the amount of debt you'd incur, and let me tell you- after 6 years of undergrad and 4 years at a vet school, there ain't no vet in hell that makes 350,000 a year. can anyone think of a way into a wildlife pathology career? i'd like to do research on wildlife diseases, necropsies, etc to track emerging wildlife diseases, but i'm afraid the only way to do that is through a pathology/wildlife track. any ideas?

 

[sambone]

We have enough vets in small animal clinics. We need people ready to devote their careers to LA, wildlife/conservation, research...and people who just want a DVM to work 20 hrs/wk in a small animal clinic really aren't helping the situation. Justify it to yourself however you want, it's a waste of a degree. If I were going to do that I'd just get some other job with animals that doesn't require 4 years of my life.

I'm all for educating prevets about the less popular paths of vetmed (I'm in research now and plan to stay) but there seems to be need for small animal vets out there. This is what a really quick look on the avma site got me - 400 vets wanted ads:
http://jobs.avma.org/search/results/?job_category=5562&ss=0&sec=browse

Cyrille, generally you are a voice of reason on this site. But it's self-righteous to tell people they are wasting their degrees by doing one thing or another, even at just 20hrs/wk...people should be informed about their options, then do what they want

My random, unsolicited advice to all pre-vets: research sucks sometimes! I swear, there are infinite ways to screw up, and even when you don't the data doesnt make sense half the time! Dont dedicate your life to it if you dont really want to...

 

[cyrille104]

I'm all for educating prevets about the less popular paths of vetmed (I'm in research now and plan to stay) but there seems to be need for small animal vets out there. This is what a really quick look on the avma site got me - 400 vets wanted ads:
http://jobs.avma.org/search/results/?job_category=5562&ss=0&sec=browse

Cyrille, generally you are a voice of reason on this site. But it's self-righteous to tell people they are wasting their degrees by doing one thing or another, even at just 20hrs/wk...people should be informed about their options, then do what they want

My random, unsolicited advice to all pre-vets: research sucks sometimes! I swear, there are infinite ways to screw up, and even when you don't the data doesnt make sense half the time! Dont dedicate your life to it if you dont really want to...

Don't discourage research! I am doing research right now and I love it. It has the potential to reach far more animals/patients than clinical work. Sometimes it is a lot of work for a little data, but it is always rewarding. If you want people to be informed about their options and then do what they want, then why not encourage people to try a little research at some point before getting their degree?

Of course people are free to do what they want, but it just bothers me when vets don't have their heart in it. It's just my opinion people, no need to freak out. Besides the fact that no one posted and said that they were really planning on being a part-time SA vet for their whole lives.

 

[InfiniVet]

Hey now, I'm planning on being a part time small animal veterinarian my ENTIRE life =P

Actually, that sounds nice...much better than research. Not to knock research at all, but I don't have the mind for it. Add test tube A into test tube B. Repeat ad nauseum. Record results. Write a 20 page technical paper about it, in order to hope to continue funding for it.
I much prefer the human element, and immediate gratification of returning animals to full health, not to mention the artistry+mechanics of surgery, and besides nothing beats treating impacted anal glands on a 4lb Chihuahua, c'mon now!

Oh and the dentist-suicide thing? I think the sdn dentistry forum had like a 20 page rant about the outrageous invalidity to that myth.

 

[cyrille104]

Hey now, I'm planning on being a part time small animal veterinarian my ENTIRE life =P

Actually, that sounds nice...much better than research. Not to knock research at all, but I don't have the mind for it. Add test tube A into test tube B. Repeat ad nauseum. Record results. Write a 20 page technical paper about it, in order to hope to continue funding for it.
I much prefer the human element, and immediate gratification of returning animals to full health, not to mention the artistry+mechanics of surgery, and besides nothing beats treating impacted anal glands on a 4lb Chihuahua, c'mon now!

Oh and the dentist-suicide thing? I think the sdn dentistry forum had like a 20 page rant about the outrageous invalidity to that myth.

Have you done research? Because that's not what it's like 90% of the time. In fact, I find clinical work to be a lot more tedious than research. Research is always changing and evolving, you're always doing something new. Clinical is the same thing for your entire career.

This is why people don't go into research...they have some bogus idea of what it is.

 

[Emio]

Have you done research? Because that's not what it's like 90% of the time. In fact, I find clinical work to be a lot more tedious than research. Research is always changing and evolving, you're always doing something new. Clinical is the same thing for your entire career.

This is why people don't go into research...they have some bogus idea of what it is.

i've done anatomical research, so it involved no test tubes whatsoever, and i still didnt like it. i think people don't go into research because, unless you have a predisposition towards it, it's a distant, difficult methodology to get to the results you want to see.

i'm glad i did research that semester; i now know i want NOTHING to do with it, lol. i suppose if it was a topic that fascinated me, and i wanted a question answered, sure i'd try my hand in it again. i'd rather just ask questions of those who have down the research, personally. so cyrille, i'll be coming to you in the future, lol.

 

[sambone]

i'm glad i did research that semester; i now know i want NOTHING to do with it, lol.

Haha...Emio, I hear that all the time.

Don't discourage research! I am doing research right now and I love it. It has the potential to reach far more animals/patients than clinical work. Sometimes it is a lot of work for a little data, but it is always rewarding. If you want people to be informed about their options and then do what they want, then why not encourage people to try a little research at some point before getting their degree?

Of course people are free to do what they want, but it just bothers me when vets don't have their heart in it. It's just my opinion people, no need to freak out.

heehee "freak out" um, not really. Actually, I think the vet forum is pretty chill compared to some of the others.

Sorry everyone, that was not meant to dissuade. Just like Cyrille, I'm saying don't do something (research/conservation/wildlife/LA) if your heart's not in it. But of course you gotta try it first to really know!

Research is always changing and evolving, you're always doing something new. Clinical is the same thing for your entire career.

Can I get a job in your lab?
A research techs life a nutshell: PCR, DNA/RNA/Protein Isolation, Cell Culture, Western Blot, Elisa, Immunohistochemistry and the same types of rat or mouse surgeries week after week. It seems like a variety but gets old after doing it 40hrs/week for 3 years. Yeah, sometimes we do other random, cool stuff but generally you repeat the same assays with different samples over and over.
If you're a post-doc/grad student it's more writing thrown in, and the Primary Investigators spend most of their time writing grant applications, and telling people like me what benchwork to do.
I also think people should do more than just undergrad research to really get a feel for it...I've found it very different.

So, IMHO I think you have to truly care about research to make a career of it.