Caribbean Diploma Mills

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You'll hear this often enough, but: ONLY ATTEND US ACREDDITED MEDICAL SCHOOLS TO PRACTICE IN THE US.

There are a number of medical schools are based in the Caribbean (not including Puerto Rican schools, which are legit) (but including Mexican schools like the University of Guadalajara) that are for US MD students. They are bad schools. Do not go to them.

I'm bringing this up now in hSDN because it looks like a few, including Ross, St. George's University, and the American University of Antigua, are offering joint BS/MD programs through a real US undergraduate program somehow. Don't do it.

Go to medical school in the country you intend to practice medicine in.

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It's worth explaining, but I didn't want people to see a wall of text on the original post and nope out, so I'll do it in the comments.
Here are some of the programs I was talking about:
Premed Pathway: Medicine (BS/MD St. George University) | MCPHS University
MD or DVM Pathway Program - Franklin Pierce University
Articulation Agreements - American University of Antigua (AUA)

The colleges are real, it's the med schools we don't like. Here are the explanations by people much smarter than me:
Caribbean MD or CRNA ?
Caribbean med student to derm resident.
DO vs Carib vs reapplying MD

Shortened, if you don't like links: Caribbean schools for US students prey on vulnerable young adults who just want to do something good with their lives and become doctors. They have horrible conditions and a very high drop-out rate, putting some students in high debt with no degree. They use the money from the dropouts to pay for clerkships in the US for the people who remain (one of their main selling points). The report a falsely high level of students who go onto US residencies by ignoring attribution rates. Sometimes some of them even get into a competitive residency (the best scams are occasionally successful--that's how MLM schemes live and breathe). This gives them nice stats to lure another student in.

These schools are not US accredited. They want to make money from you.

I want to make clear: the issues with Caribbean schools are kinda recent and all US doctors pass a US licensing test regardless of school location. If your family member or doc went to a Caribbean school, I'm not implying they are worse doctors for it.
 
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As a medical graduate from a Caribbean school (AUA) and having obtained residency in Massachusetts, I cannot agree with you. A lot of students from many Caribbean schools such as myself obtained the same residency positions as a US grad student, and have been increasing in number. We take the same exams (USMLE). Yes, there are times when courses are challenging and students do drop out but the same would be seen with a US grad student (and I do know a few friends who did that from a US program).

Caribbean schools do not "rob" students' money for any reason, especially when it comes to rotations. All students pay the same tuition and either the tuition goes to clinical rotations or the basic science curriculum.

My role here is not to promote anything but only to provide a fair justification that any route one takes--US or international--the same criterion are met with same exams and clinical rotations. Going to a Caribbean school is not a failure, but rather an alternate pathway to achieve a dream of going into a medical field as a practicing physician.
 
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As a medical graduate from a Caribbean school (AUA) and having obtained residency in Massachusetts, I cannot agree with you. A lot of students from many Caribbean schools such as myself obtained the same residency positions as a US grad student, and have been increasing in number. We take the same exams (USMLE). Yes, there are times when courses are challenging and students do drop out but the same would be seen with a US grad student (and I do know a few friends who did that from a US program).

Caribbean schools do not "rob" students' money for any reason, especially when it comes to rotations. All students pay the same tuition and either the tuition goes to clinical rotations or the basic science curriculum.

My role here is not to promote anything but only to provide a fair justification that any route one takes--US or international--the same criterion are met with same exams and clinical rotations. Going to a Caribbean school is not a failure, but rather an alternate pathway to achieve a dream of going into a medical field as a practicing physician.
The last place to justify an extraordinarily weak alternative to US medical schools is in the high school forum. There will already be plenty of data-free marketers in college as it is.
 
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As a medical graduate from a Caribbean school (AUA) and having obtained residency in Massachusetts, I cannot agree with you. A lot of students from many Caribbean schools such as myself obtained the same residency positions as a US grad student, and have been increasing in number. We take the same exams (USMLE). Yes, there are times when courses are challenging and students do drop out but the same would be seen with a US grad student (and I do know a few friends who did that from a US program).

Caribbean schools do not "rob" students' money for any reason, especially when it comes to rotations. All students pay the same tuition and either the tuition goes to clinical rotations or the basic science curriculum.

My role here is not to promote anything but only to provide a fair justification that any route one takes--US or international--the same criterion are met with same exams and clinical rotations. Going to a Caribbean school is not a failure, but rather an alternate pathway to achieve a dream of going into a medical field as a practicing physician.

Honestly there is so much false and misleading information in this post that I got too lazy and bored to respond to it. I'll tag @Goro @gonnif to respond with links.

In the meantime, going to post these here for thread readers.

gonnif's Analysis of the Caribbean Route (read this carefully and in detail to know why going to the Caribbean is a very bad idea)

WedgeDawg's Argument Against Going to Medical School in the Caribbean (also see the Caribbean Cycle Theory)
 
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As a medical graduate from a Caribbean school (AUA) and having obtained residency in Massachusetts, I cannot agree with you. A lot of students from many Caribbean schools such as myself obtained the same residency positions as a US grad student, and have been increasing in number. We take the same exams (USMLE). Yes, there are times when courses are challenging and students do drop out but the same would be seen with a US grad student (and I do know a few friends who did that from a US program).

Caribbean schools do not "rob" students' money for any reason, especially when it comes to rotations. All students pay the same tuition and either the tuition goes to clinical rotations or the basic science curriculum.

My role here is not to promote anything but only to provide a fair justification that any route one takes--US or international--the same criterion are met with same exams and clinical rotations. Going to a Caribbean school is not a failure, but rather an alternate pathway to achieve a dream of going into a medical field as a practicing physician.
No, they don't commit robbery in the literal or legal sense of the term.

More accurate to say that they commit fraud, since they run confidence games.
 
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The bottom line is that Carib schools (especially Med Schools) are a mixed bag. Calling them "a scam" or "a waste" or "a diploma mill" is unfair, since there are plenty of successful carib grads. Saying that they are "equivalent to US schools" is also untrue. I agree that advertising them to HS students is complicated and fraught with difficulty, as many will assume that all medical schools are equivalent. And a guaranteed acceptance seems like a good deal, but it isn't at all. So, here's my summary of Carib schools (shamelessly copied from another thread):

1. They accept people who cannot get into a US medical school. Whether you see this as "giving deserving people who messed up their GPA / can't do well on the MCAT a second chance" or "leeching tuition off of desperate students who can't get into US medical schools" depends on how you view the situation. No combination of metrics perfectly predict medical school success, some people with poor GPA's and MCAT's do fine. But many with low prereq's will struggle.

1b. It is hard to explain how much work medical school is. Most find it much more difficult / time intensive than college. Everything builds on everything else, so you can't just study / test / forget like you can for lots of college courses. Getting in isn't necessarily the hardest part -- it's succeeding / surviving.

2. Top performers in Carib schools will do fine, and be able to get mid-competitive fields /spots. Anesthesia, EM, Rads, University IM, etc. Ortho/NS/Vascular/Derm is very unlikely even for the top performers, and usually requires years of research and/or connections.

3. Middle performers will also do fine, but often end up in FM / Community IM / peds / Psych / Neuro. Nothing wrong with those fields, but those attending Carib schools should understand that their choices may be limited.

4. Those at the bottom of their class, failing a class, or worse failing a step, often have much more problems. Students retake, pass, and then think everything will be OK, and it might not be. These students might still match, but it's much harder. These students are definitely limited to the least competitive fields and programs.

5. A reasonable percentage of all students starting in carib schools fail out in the first 2 years. Exactly how high that percentage is, is unclear. It clearly varies by school. Some see this as "The school takes more students than it has clinical spots for, and then fails them out to make more money". Others see it as "These schools know that some percentage of students will fail out. Rather than leave clinical spots empty, they take enough pre-clinical students so that their clinical spots are filled -- this offers the maximum number of students an opportunity to be a physician". The crux is whether the pass level is adjusted specifically to fail out people, or whether it's set at some reasonable benchmark and some people happen to fail.

The other part of this discussion usually revolves around "Well, the school takes people with very low MCAT's and then they fail out -- it's a scam and they should have a higher MCAT cutoff". Data from the LCME shows that lower MCAT scores tend to be associated with failing the USMLE. But population statistics don't tell you how any one person will do -- some people with low MCAT's do just fine. So, again, how you interpret this depends upon how you look at it.

6. If you fail out of med school, or can't match to a residency, you really have limited options. A partial MD is of no value. An MD without a residency is also of very limited value, especially an international degree. People talk about "consulting", but I've never seen that actually happen. There are several stories of people getting jobs working for insurance companies, or state disability office, etc. These positions don't pay well, but at least they are something and might qualify for PSLF.

7. If you fail out of school, or can't find a residency because of poor performance, your loans are non-dischargable. Paying them off is very difficult. PSLF or "extreme hardship" may be able to discharge them after 10+ years. if you have a cosigner, they are on the hook just as much as you.

8. It's hard to assess how successful Carib schools are at placing grads into residencies. They sometimes list their "placement lists", although there's never a denominator of how many people initially started in the class. Many schools end up being 4.5 or 5 years due to some delays / exams / etc. Positions in IM or GS are often not labeled as to whether they are Prelim or Categorical, a huge difference. That said, some carib grads do just fine and end up in great fields / programs.

9. US med schools have increased their class size. Residency spots are also increasing slowly. So far, it hasn't been a problem. It may be that as time goes forward, IMG's will have further trouble getting even IM and FM spots and the change might happen between the time you matriculate and graduate. But, the opposite might be true also -- spots might grow at a higher rate than students.

So: Going to a Carib school is an uphill process. You need to work harder and be better than your US colleagues to do "equally" well. Carib schools often tout their successes, and ignore the students who never make it to graduation, are only able to get a prelim spot, or not match at all. Yet, at the better carib schools, the majority of students probably succeed (again, difficult to say due to lack of transparency), mainly in the primary care fields. Advertising from these schools (on their websites) doesn't do a great job of balancing these risks and benefits. Threads on SDN tend to tout only the negatives.

The Carib should never be someone's Plan A. In general, going to a US school is far preferable. You'll have all fields open to you, the match process is much more streamlined and you'll have more success. These direct admission / combined programs sound like a bad idea all around. I expect some of it is marketing -- the metrics they are setting to get into the program are probably the same as what you'd need to simply apply, from anywhere, and get in. If you're interested in medicine as a career, you should go to college and do the pre-reqs, take the MCAT, and apply to US schools (MD and DO). If that is unsuccessful, then the Carib may be worth considering, as long as you understand the risks. Some would argue that you should try two full application cycles in the US before considering the Carib.
 
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Not worth to attend. At the same time, if you do, know the risks.
 
This is the high school section and I am familiar with this topic since I actually went to one of these schools which had a pre-med to med program.

In short, don't do it.

But don't take that advice blindly just because some people here heard that Caribbean school's were statistical dead ends. I will tell you how those pre-med programs really work and all the tricks that they don't tell you about.

1. Most of the pre-med parts of these programs, if not all, are not accredited. If you pass the pre-med part but don't get to the MD program, you can't do a thing with those credits if you bring them back to the States. Some other Caribbean school might take them but I'd tell you if you couldn't cut it at one program, you probably won't cut it anywhere else in the Caribbean. So essentially, you're dealing with an all or nothing situation.

2. These programs are subject to the same politics as the for-profit Caribbean medical school model. They will weed you out of these programs as well. At my school, students did not have access to their exams for two classes. You just had to believe what you got. When that is the situation, I can guarantee you they are fudging the numbers in some way. I mean why else?

3. Quality of education is not like taking those courses at a university or college. The pre-med courses in the Caribbean are MCAT-focused and accelerated just like the medical programs. The goal of these programs is not to teach you what you need to know about each subject. The goal is to give you some type of baseline knowledge before starting the med program. When a program is offering courses like "medical terminology" or "physics for medicine," you are not getting a well-rounded pre-medical background that you can do anything else with.

4. As stated above, the programs are "MCAT-focused" which means they are teaching you what they think you should know for the MCAT. For the most part they do succeed in hitting on all the necessary topics covered but you have people who take the "full" version of these courses and still do poorly on the MCAT. These accelerated courses will almost guarantee you will do poor to mediocre at best when you do take the MCAT. And this brings me to the next point...

5. If you are in one of these pre-med to med programs, they don't care what MCAT score you get. They care more about you passing the in-house comprehensive exam to be promoted. The MCAT is a formality. You could score poorly and they will still pass you granted you passed their pre-med comp. Yes, pre-med's get a comp too lol. This creates all types of problems because if you do poorly on the MCAT, I can't imagine that's a good thing. Secondly, that score stays with you if you plan on applying somewhere else. So in the short term it might seem like a relief to get in with a low score but going back to the all or nothing approach, if you don't make it at that school you lose everything because you are stuck with a pre-med program specific to that school only and a lackluster MCAT score. Both of which will prove useless when applying elsewhere.

6. These pre-med programs are a way for the schools to make even more money. At my school, the medical students enjoyed the nicer facilities and the pre-med students got the crappiest classrooms and teaching materials. When they go to the anatomy lab for some mandatory lab sessions, they get to see the crap left over from the med students. It's not like they are going to give the pre-med's their own cadaver.

7. The pre-med program will maybe get you ready for the first term of medical school but that's it. It's not enough time to transform you from an average student into a high-performing medical student.

Take it from me. I've been to the Caribbean. I know how this stuff works. I'm now convinced medicine is the one field where you don't want to take any shortcuts. These pre-med programs are shortcuts. Everybody goes in thinking they are going to be the best but how can you be the best when the program is not designed to make you the best?

Summary: All of those pre-med to med programs are dead ends no matter which way you look at them.
 
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The Caribbean is a great place to go...
On vacation.
Don't believe the hype. There are no shortcuts in medicine.


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Il Destriero

I'm curious though. It says you are a physician. Don't you work alongside some Caribbean graduates?
 
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No.
There are a couple DOs around though.


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Il Destriero

You would be amazed at the number of students in my organic chemistry class who opted to go Caribbean over applying to DO program in the states. Ridiculous.
 
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I should lend my knowledge to all those who are considering applying to a foreign medical school.

First let me give you some background on myself so you know where I am coming from. I graduated with a degree in history from UCLA in 1977. I applied one year to US medical and osteopathic schools and did not get in. There was a 40% US medical school acceptance rate in those days. I had four fraternity brothers already in medical school in Guadalajara at the Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara (UAG) who told me to get down there and not waste any more years applying to US schools. I took their advice and started the UAG in 1978 graduating in 1982. I did a six week rotation at William Beaumont Hospital in Michigan during my fifth semester and a six week rotation at Prince George's Hospital in Maryland during my sixth semester. The UAG students did their entire fourth year at a US training hospital in those days which I also did at PG.

To enter a residency you are required to have the necessary curriculum to be licensed in the country where you graduate. In Mexico, much like the rest of the world, this was a six year program. Four years of medical school, one year of internado, and one year of social service. You were then granted your Titulo, or license, to practice in Mexico. The Fifth Pathway program was sanctioned by the ECFMG (after a lawsuit by UAG students) so that IMG's at Mexican medical schools could do an extra year following their fourth year in a US medical school that had the program. During it's height there were more Fifth Pathway program spots then those applying to them. So you completed your four years at the UAG, were granted a diploma, but not a license. Americans all did Fifth Pathway programs in those years. Fifth Pathway was officially over in 2009. Once you completed your Fifth Pathway year in a US medical school you could enter or match for a residency program. I hope that straightens that out.

The UAG has 15,000 practicing physicians in the United States. It has graduated Americans since the mid 1950's. It was the premiere foreign medical school way before the Caribbean. That has changed due to the loss of the Fifth Pathway Program because the UAG program is six years.

I went on to do my Fifth Pathway at the University of Maryland School of Medicine at Prince George's Hospital (PG) just outside Washington, DC. I then stayed on at PG, accepted outside the match, to complete a three year internal medicine residency from 1983-1986. I served as Chief Resident. I met my wife at PG who I have been with for 36 years. Following this I was the first foreign grad to be admitted to the University of Virginia Anesthesiology Department Critical Care Medicine Fellowship. So I was an internist in the anesthesiology department doing a two-year fellowship. It was a wonderful two years in Charlottesville, VA. I published 6 papers and they invited me to stay and do an anesthesia residency. I felt I needed to return to CA at this point and applied to all of the anesthesia residency programs in CA. With my background I was accepted to 12 of 13. I ended up back at UCLA from 1988-1991 (six months off for other training) doing my anesthesiology residency. So after nine years of residency and fellowship I finished in 1991.

I am now a practicing cardiac anesthesiologist in the busiest hospital in Newport Beach, CA for the past 26 years. I have been a clinical professor of anesthesiology at UCLA for 26 years. I have been both Chairman and President (twice) of the contracted anesthesia corporation at my hospital. There are 60 anesthesiologists in our group.

I have a 26 year old daughter who graduated from San Diego State and was a fitness model. She has 250,000 Instagram followers. I have a 29 year old son who graduated from the University of Colorado, Boulder, who is a petroleum engineer. Why do I mention this. Because they have both decided they want to be physicians. They will not make the cut for the MD/DO schools. When they asked for advice I asked them how badly they wanted to be physicians. They are both now at St. George's Medical School in Grenada. They put all the social media and internet negativity behind them because they have me as a example of what can be accomplished if that is what you truly want in life. Every single one of my friends from the UAG is a practicing physician in the United States today, in every specialty, and many rising to the top of their specialty.

Why St. George's versus my Alma mater the UAG? Because you receive your degree in four years and can enter residency after graduation. Not so any longer at the UAG without Fifth Pathway. I am available for any questions that may help an aspiring future physician.
 
One of my friends is an anesthesia chair making >$1m/yr and he graduated from UAG... 30 years ago.
Times have changed. Good luck to your kids. There's a real risk of them not completing the program and/or having residency problems. That's the reality today. Perhaps you can call in some favors from your colleagues at UCLA if needed. Most people don't have that going for them either.
For most people, aiming for a DO is a much safer bet. I could bore you with "the tale of 2 Carib grads" one with connections and one without, but I'm sure you know how it ended.


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Il Destriero
 
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I should lend my knowledge to all those who are considering applying to a foreign medical school.

First let me give you some background on myself so you know where I am coming from. I graduated with a degree in history from UCLA in 1977. I applied one year to US medical and osteopathic schools and did not get in. There was a 40% US medical school acceptance rate in those days. I had four fraternity brothers already in medical school in Guadalajara at the Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara (UAG) who told me to get down there and not waste any more years applying to US schools. I took their advice and started the UAG in 1978 graduating in 1982. I did a six week rotation at William Beaumont Hospital in Michigan during my fifth semester and a six week rotation at Prince George's Hospital in Maryland during my sixth semester. The UAG students did their entire fourth year at a US training hospital in those days which I also did at PG.

To enter a residency you are required to have the necessary curriculum to be licensed in the country where you graduate. In Mexico, much like the rest of the world, this was a six year program. Four years of medical school, one year of internado, and one year of social service. You were then granted your Titulo, or license, to practice in Mexico. The Fifth Pathway program was sanctioned by the ECFMG (after a lawsuit by UAG students) so that IMG's at Mexican medical schools could do an extra year following their fourth year in a US medical school that had the program. During it's height there were more Fifth Pathway program spots then those applying to them. So you completed your four years at the UAG, were granted a diploma, but not a license. Americans all did Fifth Pathway programs in those years. Fifth Pathway was officially over in 2009. Once you completed your Fifth Pathway year in a US medical school you could enter or match for a residency program. I hope that straightens that out.

The UAG has 15,000 practicing physicians in the United States. It has graduated Americans since the mid 1950's. It was the premiere foreign medical school way before the Caribbean. That has changed due to the loss of the Fifth Pathway Program because the UAG program is six years.

I went on to do my Fifth Pathway at the University of Maryland School of Medicine at Prince George's Hospital (PG) just outside Washington, DC. I then stayed on at PG, accepted outside the match, to complete a three year internal medicine residency from 1983-1986. I served as Chief Resident. I met my wife at PG who I have been with for 36 years. Following this I was the first foreign grad to be admitted to the University of Virginia Anesthesiology Department Critical Care Medicine Fellowship. So I was an internist in the anesthesiology department doing a two-year fellowship. It was a wonderful two years in Charlottesville, VA. I published 6 papers and they invited me to stay and do an anesthesia residency. I felt I needed to return to CA at this point and applied to all of the anesthesia residency programs in CA. With my background I was accepted to 12 of 13. I ended up back at UCLA from 1988-1991 (six months off for other training) doing my anesthesiology residency. So after nine years of residency and fellowship I finished in 1991.

I am now a practicing cardiac anesthesiologist in the busiest hospital in Newport Beach, CA for the past 26 years. I have been a clinical professor of anesthesiology at UCLA for 26 years. I have been both Chairman and President (twice) of the contracted anesthesia corporation at my hospital. There are 60 anesthesiologists in our group.

I have a 26 year old daughter who graduated from San Diego State and was a fitness model. She has 250,000 Instagram followers. I have a 29 year old son who graduated from the University of Colorado, Boulder, who is a petroleum engineer. Why do I mention this. Because they have both decided they want to be physicians. They will not make the cut for the MD/DO schools. When they asked for advice I asked them how badly they wanted to be physicians. They are both now at St. George's Medical School in Grenada. They put all the social media and internet negativity behind them because they have me as a example of what can be accomplished if that is what you truly want in life. Every single one of my friends from the UAG is a practicing physician in the United States today, in every specialty, and many rising to the top of their specialty.

Why St. George's versus my Alma mater the UAG? Because you receive your degree in four years and can enter residency after graduation. Not so any longer at the UAG without Fifth Pathway. I am available for any questions that may help an aspiring future physician.

There are countless discussions here regarding what goes on INSIDE of these schools. Your kids may succeed and may be in the best position to do so but telling someone else to apply to the Caribbean blindly is not sound advice as these are for-profit schools and they are not for everybody.
 
There are countless discussions here regarding what goes on INSIDE of these schools. Your kids may succeed and may be in the best position to do so but telling someone else to apply to the Caribbean blindly is not sound advice as these are for-profit schools and they are not for everybody.
Thank you for your concern. If you have no other choice then you have to decide if a foreign school is for you despite all of the problems associated with them. A US allopathic or osteopathic school should always be the choice over a foreign school.
 
A US MD or DO program is always the first preference. No question there. If a student feels they can improve their rejected application through improved grades, improved MCAT, another advanced degree, more volunteer work, etc. etc. then they should go that route. Keep in mind that each cycle of applications and acceptances takes a year of your time and life. The most important thing is to look at the profile of the students and schools they are accepted at and be realistic with regard to your chances of improving your application enough to have a chance.

The foreign school route is the last opportunity for those that will never be in the running for entrance to a US program no matter what they do. With that route you have to go in with the realistic knowledge of all the ups and downs of foreign programs; both success and failure.

My colleagues son just started Tulane. $85,000 a year tuition not including room/board/books/etc, so $450,000 or more. That's the point; be realistic of your situation and go from there.

As an aside, many of the those foreign grads that get into a first year residency do so outside the match.
 
Thank you for your concern. If you have no other choice then you have to decide if a foreign school is for you despite all of the problems associated with them. A US allopathic or osteopathic school should always be the choice over a foreign school.

Can't argue with that. Some people on this site don't see it like that though. They would rather have you become a podiatrist or a PA before trying the Caribbean route. That logic makes no sense IMO if you weren't interested in those fields to begin with.
 
I think they say that because PA or opto or Podiatry is more likely to lead to a degree and a job than taking your chances in a foreign school.
A lot of the likelihood of success likely comes down to why you failed to begin with. Were you a bright kid that got into drugs and alcohol and womanizing and failed out only to redeem yourself later vs a chronic average intellect slacker that will fall back into their lazy ways and fail out of the Carib as well.


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Il Destriero
 
I think they say that because PA or opto or Podiatry is more likely to lead to a degree and a job than taking your chances in a foreign school.
A lot of the likelihood of success likely comes down to why you failed to begin with. Were you a bright kid that got into drugs and alcohol and womanizing and failed out only to redeem yourself later vs a chronic average intellect slacker that will fall back into their lazy ways and fail out of the Carib as well.


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Il Destriero

I think the logic is flawed. If you want to become a doctor and you can't get into medical school, I don't see why that person would automatically switch to podiatry or PA school just for a "job." I think the better advice would be try to become a doctor and if you can't go choose something that would be your second best choice and that could be outside of the medical world. I highly doubt most people would choose podiatry or PA as those careers vary greatly from medicine in many aspects.

Med school has nothing to do with intellect lol. It's preparation, hard work and lots of fine tuning. I think intellect applies more towards research opportunities or other positions within academia.
 
While I do agree with RFK1954 that it is possible to be successful coming out of the Caribbean I too have an n=1 story about UAG. An peds ortho I used to go to went to UAG in the late 60s/early 70s i believe, he then did his rotations at a very well respect hospital in NY, did his residency at a smaller hospital, and finally a fellowship at Harvard. Why do I say all of this, simple.......in the game of life everything is possible but I don't think its going out on a limb to say a fellowship at Harvard is most likely NOT going to happen coming from UAG or a Caribbean school. A residency may not even come out of it but again we can't predict things.

Now this ortho is easily one of the best in the northeast region and Im not just saying that just because he was my doctor, he truly is gifted and he proves some students slip through the cracks in the med admissions process. However! one should always pursue the MD/DO route 2-3 times BEFORE you consider otherwise with the merger coming we have no idea what is going to happen it could be good or bad for DO's and IMGs we all know one thing though, US MDs have it made in this future and if you can't get into an MD school you need to be as competitive as possible and in my personal opinion an IMG may not be able to compete as well moving forward not for lack of trying or skill but lack of resources and phasing out
 
While I do agree with RFK1954 that it is possible to be successful coming out of the Caribbean I too have an n=1 story about UAG. An peds ortho I used to go to went to UAG in the late 60s/early 70s i believe, he then did his rotations at a very well respect hospital in NY, did his residency at a smaller hospital, and finally a fellowship at Harvard. Why do I say all of this, simple.......in the game of life everything is possible but I don't think its going out on a limb to say a fellowship at Harvard is most likely NOT going to happen coming from UAG or a Caribbean school. A residency may not even come out of it but again we can't predict things.

Now this ortho is easily one of the best in the northeast region and Im not just saying that just because he was my doctor, he truly is gifted and he proves some students slip through the cracks in the med admissions process. However! one should always pursue the MD/DO route 2-3 times BEFORE you consider otherwise with the merger coming we have no idea what is going to happen it could be good or bad for DO's and IMGs we all know one thing though, US MDs have it made in this future and if you can't get into an MD school you need to be as competitive as possible and in my personal opinion an IMG may not be able to compete as well moving forward not for lack of trying or skill but lack of resources and phasing out
 
Have been busy at work but have a chance to respond today. I will restate what I have already said. US MD and DO programs first. Reapply following rejection to the US programs if you can HONESTLY make yourself a better candidate a year later.

Consider the foreign medical school route after careful consideration of what you are going to be faced with, your only "calling" in life, debt, failure, etc. I am a foreign medical school graduate.

In this post I want to discuss two things. The debt you will accrue with both US private medical schools and foreign medical schools is comparable. Make sure that loans through US lending institutions are available if you are in a particular foreign medical school. US medical school students have huge debt like their foreign medical school colleagues.


In considering how many times you are going to apply to US medical or osteopathic schools take this into consideration. 25% of the physicians practicing in the United States today are US foreign medical school grads or physicians from countries outside the United States. In 2016 the were approximately 53,000 applicants with 21,000 acceptances to US medical schools (not including DO schools) so a 40% acceptance rate. Of those accepted less that 10% were over the age of 28. So that translates into 2,000 acceptances beyond that age.

Take this in consideration when reapplying to US MD and DO schools. That's why foreign medical schools have a greater number of older and second career students. Just another factor to consider as you apply over and over to US programs.

As another member mentioned: why are you considering other health care careers if medical school is your ONLY "calling" in life? If you are considering other careers then a foreign medical school is not for you. It is the last resort for those that strive to be a physician and have no chance for US MD and DO acceptance.
 
Med school has nothing to do with intellect lol. It's preparation, hard work and lots of fine tuning. I think intellect applies more towards research opportunities or other positions within academia.

Ok. Thanks.
The guy that failed out of Caribbean medical school setting me straight about how to succeed in Medicine.
Love this place!


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Il Destriero
 
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As a medical graduate from a Caribbean school (AUA) and having obtained residency in Massachusetts, I cannot agree with you. A lot of students from many Caribbean schools such as myself obtained the same residency positions as a US grad student, and have been increasing in number. We take the same exams (USMLE). Yes, there are times when courses are challenging and students do drop out but the same would be seen with a US grad student (and I do know a few friends who did that from a US program).

Caribbean schools do not "rob" students' money for any reason, especially when it comes to rotations. All students pay the same tuition and either the tuition goes to clinical rotations or the basic science curriculum.

My role here is not to promote anything but only to provide a fair justification that any route one takes--US or international--the same criterion are met with same exams and clinical rotations. Going to a Caribbean school is not a failure, but rather an alternate pathway to achieve a dream of going into a medical field as a practicing physician.
go to any school but AUA! it is a terrible school , no formal education, students are tricked by administration to fail courses so they can get an extra semester of money to send to their "godfather" manipal...just indian immigration to USA In disguise
 
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