Caribbean Med Schools

Started by lk2230
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Guys, I'm writing to get some honest answers and opinions regarding the Caribbean schools (I guess most specifically Ross and St. George's). Please note that I'd rather not hear about the two absolute extremes of the obvious: that a) no one chooses the Carib schools over any U.S. school; I realize that nearly all Americans who go to these schools go cuz they couldn't get into a U.S. school, and b) that if you work hard and succeed you can be a great doctor no matter where you go; I realize that these schools to graduate at least some doctors who get top residencies, become board certified, etc.

So let's here some opinions regarding the down and dirty of these schools. What are your general opinions, thoughts? Are there any websites that supply the average GPA and MCAT of these schools' students (I don't see it on their sites)?
How much of a hindrance is it really to have gone to one of these schools? I know most U.S. trained doctors look down on them, but don't some people from these schools genuinely get top residencies? If so, what's the big deal? Or do most of the students' from these schools get the bottom of the barrel residencies? What happens if you get one of those residencies, how much harder is it to become a top doctor?
I guess the reason I ask is cuz this forum rarely discusses these schools, and when they do its usually as a joke. Are they that bad, or are these jokers just elitist snobs who don't know what they are talking about?
While I am working my butt off to get into a U.S. school, I find it comforting to know that there is a real option out there should I not quite make it. Am I misguided?

I'd love to hear answers to these questions, plus general opinions and thoughts, from all of you. Any students/graduates of these schools here on the forum?
 
hey!

well just the other day at the starbucks in my school, i met this girl who just finished doing 16 months at st ross, and now she is here in miami doing clinical rotations for the next to years... so basically you do 16months there and then come back to U.S. She said that its not the prettiest place to go... she said that its VERY different from U.S. and that there wasnt much to do... BUT she said that you have to spend it studying anyway so thats not much of a problem...

If I dont get into any U.S. schools, I wont waste a year, I will go to UAG or St Georges, or Ross.... I mean it doesnt make you a worse doctor I dont think... After You take the SAME USMLE step 1, USMLE step 2, step3...etc...

P.S. I think there will always be this "looking down" attitude EVERYWHERE... even if you graduate from a U.S. school... for example, I have seen some M.D.s from the same school who look down at other specialists (In this case it was Emergency Medicine doctor sneering at Dermatologists because according to him, they werent "real doctors"....

Main point: Do what you need to do, and dont think about what others will think... because you cant satisfy everyone, its not possible... Satisfy yourself. Oh and remember that you need to enjoy the journey, not just the destination.
 
lk2230 said:
Guys, I'm writing to get some honest answers and opinions regarding the Caribbean schools (I guess most specifically Ross and St. George's). Please note that I'd rather not hear about the two absolute extremes of the obvious: that a) no one chooses the Carib schools over any U.S. school; I realize that nearly all Americans who go to these schools go cuz they couldn't get into a U.S. school, and b) that if you work hard and succeed you can be a great doctor no matter where you go; I realize that these schools to graduate at least some doctors who get top residencies, become board certified, etc.

So let's here some opinions regarding the down and dirty of these schools. What are your general opinions, thoughts? Are there any websites that supply the average GPA and MCAT of these schools' students (I don't see it on their sites)?
How much of a hindrance is it really to have gone to one of these schools? I know most U.S. trained doctors look down on them, but don't some people from these schools genuinely get top residencies? If so, what's the big deal? Or do most of the students' from these schools get the bottom of the barrel residencies? What happens if you get one of those residencies, how much harder is it to become a top doctor?
I guess the reason I ask is cuz this forum rarely discusses these schools, and when they do its usually as a joke. Are they that bad, or are these jokers just elitist snobs who don't know what they are talking about?
While I am working my butt off to get into a U.S. school, I find it comforting to know that there is a real option out there should I not quite make it. Am I misguided?

I'd love to hear answers to these questions, plus general opinions and thoughts, from all of you. Any students/graduates of these schools here on the forum?
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The only down side to Carribean schools is that they want $$. They enroll way more than could possible ever graduate in a given year and force the students to compete in order to pass. Sure it's easy, if you are motivated, but those islands lack resources and the professors- much like the students, are there because they did not get positions in US med schools.

I would have gone to the carribean if I did not get in, so I am not bashing them. You just got to go into it with a serious mindset. I heard that the island Ross is on doesn't have a theater or mall, not a big deal for us as M1's or M2's, but its something to consider if you are married like me- my wife would go nuts without a MAC or Sephora nearby!

But hey, do it and you'll get through it. I'd recommend AUC or SGU over Ross despite the hype for Ross. You'll get a better quality of life over there instead.

Good Luck!
 
You should try to improve your candidacy before applying... a year's worth of improving oneself can save a potential lifetime of stigma.

BUT! With that said, I know a 3rd year at St George's... she's really smart, motivated, but had a 7 in verbal (with 11's in bio and physical) on her first and only MCAT. She decided she didn't want to "waste" a year, so she decided on St George's. She did really well in her science years, as expected, and is now in clerkships. She said that the island experiences (and her brooklyn teaching hospital) were kind of "ghetto" (her words), but overall better than all the other Caribbean schools. "Ross is a giant med school factory," she opined, commenting on the fact that Ross's class is 300-500 people.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
You should try to improve your candidacy before applying... a year's worth of improving oneself can save a potential lifetime of stigma.

BUT! With that said, I know a 3rd year at St George's... she's really smart, motivated, but had a 7 in verbal (with 11's in bio and physical) on her first and only MCAT. She decided she didn't want to "waste" a year, so she decided on St George's. She did really well in her science years, as expected, and is now in clerkships. She said that the island experiences (and her brooklyn teaching hospital) were kind of "ghetto" (her words), but overall better than all the other Caribbean schools. "Ross is a giant med school factory," she opined, commenting on the fact that Ross's class is 300-500 people.
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I've got TONS of info. on St. George and Ross because I applied and was accepted to both. I also went to info. sessions on both schools hosted at regional locations. Let me give you some basics and if you need more, pm me.

St. George: Nicest facilities. The True Blue Campus is gorgeous (they show it every chance they get). You spend two basic science years on Grenada which is nice except that it was leveled two years ago by Hurricane Ivan. The schools wasn't damaged much, and they showed pictures to prove it. I'd still check on that though. They claim to only have one hurricane like that once every 50 years. You do a pre-clinical semester on the island of St. Vincent before doing clinical rotations at affiliate hospitals in the states. Selling point of St. Georga: all rotation hospitals are ACGME approved which means they're more credible when it comes time for residency. Accept about 1/4 all applicants. Average MCAT ~26. Claim to have low atrition rate (I doubt it).

Ross: Less nice facilities, VERY poverty stricken island. However, probably the MOST reputable school outside the U.S. I shadow a third year Family Practice Resident from Ross right now. He's GREAT. But he said at Ross its all about work. He NEVER went to class. He said the trick there is they accept most applicants, but make the curriculum even harder than U.S. schools to purposely fail a bunch of people. That way ,those that make it do well on the boards and make them look better. I mean they bost like a 93% first time pass rate which is great by any standard. Look at residencies. You'll see Ross grads all over. They have a couple in the surgery residency at MEdical College of Georgia. They're all over.

Bottom line...both schools are outrageous expensive. Living conditions are poor. Congress constantly debates over whether Caribbean schools should be eligible for Stafford Loans for students (they currently are). There is a stigma, but once your in residency, does it really matter? I mean, who's going to ask? The education is solid, etc. etc.

I personally chose to wait a year. My choice was motivated ONLY by the fact that my wife would not be able to find work and didn't want to sit around in a 3rd World apt. all day. A year is not that long. I studied hard over the summer, and improved my MCAT. I've already been accepted to a D.O. school and am waiting to hear back from 4 M.D. schools that I've interviewed at. Its a tough choice and a lot of money to gamble with. I trust you'll do the right thing!
 
Two questions:

1. What's AUG? I don't think I've heard of that one.

2. How big is each incoming class as SGU?
 
I think the big 3 or 4 (including the two you named) are considered respectable Caribbean schools and will get you residencies etc as long as you pass your classes and your courses. You will become a doctor as long as you work hard there. Just remember, it's a third world country and will hardly be a vacation studying there.

That said, I would try to avoid leaving the country. If you need to, reapply. Getting the residency you want will be much more difficult because you will be applying as an international student and you have to wait until the US med students gets first pick (as far as I know). That may not be a big deal if you don't care for anything competitive, but outside of primary care, going Caribbean will only hinder you. I personally won't look down at anyone who has passed their classes and their boards and were deemed worthy of getting whatever residencies they got into, I doubt your patients will care either as long as you are a competent doc.
 
If you work hard at a Carib school, pass the boards with a decent score and are a US citizen you will probably get a residency in the U.S. However, this residency probably won't be the most desirable. If you are sure that you want to go into a less competitive specialty (family practice, general pediatrics, physical medicine and rehab, ob/gyn, internal med, etc) or maybe something moderately competitive like general surgery or anesthesiology and you don't care if you end up doing your residency in the ghetto or the middle of nowhere, then you can probably achieve your goal at a carib med school. However, if you are not sure what you want or you want something competitive, then you should do everything in your power to stay in the states. International grads do get top residencies every now and then, but these grads are the exception (and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have connections). Going to a caribbean school will almost certainly hinder you while you look for a residency.
 
GAdoc said:
I've got TONS of info. on St. George and Ross because I applied and was accepted to both. I also went to info. sessions on both schools hosted at regional locations. Let me give you some basics and if you need more, pm me.

St. George: Nicest facilities. The True Blue Campus is gorgeous (they show it every chance they get). You spend two basic science years on Grenada which is nice except that it was leveled two years ago by Hurricane Ivan. The schools wasn't damaged much, and they showed pictures to prove it. I'd still check on that though. They claim to only have one hurricane like that once every 50 years. You do a pre-clinical semester on the island of St. Vincent before doing clinical rotations at affiliate hospitals in the states. Selling point of St. Georga: all rotation hospitals are ACGME approved which means they're more credible when it comes time for residency. Accept about 1/4 all applicants. Average MCAT ~26. Claim to have low atrition rate (I doubt it).

Ross: Less nice facilities, VERY poverty stricken island. However, probably the MOST reputable school outside the U.S. I shadow a third year Family Practice Resident from Ross right now. He's GREAT. But he said at Ross its all about work. He NEVER went to class. He said the trick there is they accept most applicants, but make the curriculum even harder than U.S. schools to purposely fail a bunch of people. That way ,those that make it do well on the boards and make them look better. I mean they bost like a 93% first time pass rate which is great by any standard. Look at residencies. You'll see Ross grads all over. They have a couple in the surgery residency at MEdical College of Georgia. They're all over.

Bottom line...both schools are outrageous expensive. Living conditions are poor. Congress constantly debates over whether Caribbean schools should be eligible for Stafford Loans for students (they currently are). There is a stigma, but once your in residency, does it really matter? I mean, who's going to ask? The education is solid, etc. etc.

I personally chose to wait a year. My choice was motivated ONLY by the fact that my wife would not be able to find work and didn't want to sit around in a 3rd World apt. all day. A year is not that long. I studied hard over the summer, and improved my MCAT. I've already been accepted to a D.O. school and am waiting to hear back from 4 M.D. schools that I've interviewed at. Its a tough choice and a lot of money to gamble with. I trust you'll do the right thing!
Click to expand...

SO how much money do they milk out from you per year??????? thats the real question...i would love to experience the caribbean--ive never been there though!!
 
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omgwtfbbq? said:
what about Canadian med schools?
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don't open this can of worms (it was open last week or so). they're really hard to get into -- socialized medicine means socialized (i.e. government) schools (with great education). the exception is mcgill in montreal, which has a good quota for americans. i got an interview there, but i could never see myself going to school where it was frigid. no safeties up in the north.
 
what is the average gpa and mcat scores of people who enter into carribean medical schools?
 
nekrogg said:
what is the average gpa and mcat scores of people who enter into carribean medical schools?
Click to expand...

GPA = low (as long as you have one)

MCAT = low (some don't even require the MCAT)
 
OSUdoc08 said:
GPA = low (as long as you have one)

MCAT = low (some don't even require the MCAT)
Click to expand...

All I know is I am NOT leaving this country, even if it means applying several times. If I wanted to go to international schools, I would have stayed in Mexico, finished high school, and gotten into med school right afterwards, seeing I had a 4.0 gpa and a dad teaching at the college.
I have seen their facilities, and they are not nearly as nice, and there are many complications afterwards.
 
Why not DO schools? That would make you more competitiive for a wider range of residencies than Carib grads?

They are also recognized with full medical practice rights recently in many other countries other than the 50 states.....like UK, NZ, Germany.........45 countries worldwide.
 
Search for my posts about living on Dominica. We did it with 4 kids as did lots of families.
 
vmgopal said:
Why not DO schools? That would make you more competitiive for a wider range of residencies than Carib grads?

They are also recognized with full medical practice rights recently in many other countries other than the 50 states.....like UK, NZ, Germany.........45 countries worldwide.
Click to expand...

most go to the carribbean over DO school b/c they want to be an MD. its one of those "looking down on" stigmas, i guess, which is kinda funny b/c you probably be looked down upon either way. Through my experience: US MDs look down on DOs and Carrib MDs, and DOs and carrib MDs look down on each other. Although in the grand scheme of things, this really doesnt mean anything.
 
spitfire5454 said:
most go to the carribbean over DO school b/c they want to be an MD. its one of those "looking down on" stigmas, i guess, which is kinda funny b/c you probably be looked down upon either way. Through my experience: US MDs look down on DOs and Carrib MDs, and DOs and carrib MDs look down on each other. Although in the grand scheme of things, this really doesnt mean anything.
Click to expand...

I haven't found this to be true in my experience. The MDs that I have met have always been very complementary of DOs. This may have to do with the strength of the DO schools in my area, however.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
GPA = low (as long as you have one)

MCAT = low (some don't even require the MCAT)
Click to expand...

You really can't generalize too much here as there is great variation among carib schools in both quality and standards. There are definitely some schools that will take you as long as you can fork the cash over.
At SGU where I go the average GPA is about a 3.4 and 26 MCAT.
 
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Dukes said:
You really can't generalize too much here as there is great variation among carib schools in both quality and standards. There are definitely some schools that will take you as long as you can fork the cash over.
At SGU where I go the average GPA is about a 3.4 and 26 MCAT.
Click to expand...

Point being: the variation is too great for Caribbean schools in general to have any credibility with U.S. residency programs, due to the majority of schools which give the select few "good" programs a bad name

(I use the word "good" in quotation marks, since the stats you give me for SGU are pretty low anyway)
 
There are students who have gained admission to US allopathic schools with a 26 and a 3.4 so the stats are not that far off.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
don't open this can of worms (it was open last week or so). they're really hard to get into -- socialized medicine means socialized (i.e. government) schools (with great education). the exception is mcgill in montreal, which has a good quota for americans. i got an interview there, but i could never see myself going to school where it was frigid. no safeties up in the north.
Click to expand...

Is it tough to get into mcgill? Like as hard as US schools?
 
Dukes said:
You really can't generalize too much here as there is great variation among carib schools in both quality and standards. There are definitely some schools that will take you as long as you can fork the cash over.
At SGU where I go the average GPA is about a 3.4 and 26 MCAT.
Click to expand...

No its not, its 3.2 and 24. Says so right on their website. Why fudge with the truth to make your school look better?
 
NRAI2001 said:
No its not, its 3.2 and 24. Says so right on their website. Why fudge with the truth to make your school look better?
Click to expand...



No, if SGU's website says 3.2 and 24 I've never seen it. I was told by admission officers that it was 3.4 and 26. But who cares.

I think one of the most telling observations made thus far was a post where someone compared US allopathic schools to a frat-boy, sorority-girl mentality. Obviously, the extent of this mentality varies regionally and with the particular school, but I think there is a lot of truth to it. Read any guide to gaining admission to medical school. They always say the same junk about interviews: dress and talk conservatively, and (for females) be prepared for questions with a sexist tone. I have a friend who is in his first year at a US allo school. He got in with a 24 MCAT! But if medicine doesn't work out, he can be an Calvin Klein model. He played football in high school, never met a stranger, makes you feel like your the coolest person in the world when he talks to you, etc. etc. He's definately qualified to be in med school, but probably not more so than many Carib. students.

Bottom line...for whatever reason, the number of seats in us allo schools does not meet the demand for healthcare in this country. Yet there are more than enough qualified applicants. The result....us allo schools hand select not only the brightest (i.e. those with the highest numbers) they also select those who they feel will be the best doctors (and who knows what that means).

So what's my point? I don't really have one other than that the whole application process is truly a crap shoot. I say, more power to those going to the carib. They show a lot more determination than many us allo students, who simply had the numbers to get right in. I think those who aren't meant to be doctors wash out of those schools. They're left with genuinely good doctors. In an earlier post I mentioned that I currently shadow a 3rd year FP resident who is a Ross Grad. He is without question, the best doctor I've ever shadowed and I've been doing it for years. This guy EXEMPLIFIES a physician. He not only has the science of medicine down, he has the art of care-giving down. I hear so many people complain about FP...this guy LOVES it. He blew his boards away and could've gotten surgery, but he just loves one on one contact with people. This guy listens, he laughs, he touches, he cares! He's a great doctor. Making a 38 on the MCAT and having a 4.0 from an Ivy League school just means you have potential. It doesn't mean your compasionate. It doesn't mean you really care. I interviewed at USUHS this Feb. The admission officer there said it best: "You have to be a genius to get into medical school, but only work hard to stay in".

Yall think about it.
 
GAdoc said:
No, if SGU's website says 3.2 and 24 I've never seen it. I was told by admission officers that it was 3.4 and 26. But who cares.

I think one of the most telling observations made thus far was a post where someone compared US allopathic schools to a frat-boy, sorority-girl mentality. Obviously, the extent of this mentality varies regionally and with the particular school, but I think there is a lot of truth to it. Read any guide to gaining admission to medical school. They always say the same junk about interviews: dress and talk conservatively, and (for females) be prepared for questions with a sexist tone. I have a friend who is in his first year at a US allo school. He got in with a 24 MCAT! But if medicine doesn't work out, he can be an Calvin Klein model. He played football in high school, never met a stranger, makes you feel like your the coolest person in the world when he talks to you, etc. etc. He's definately qualified to be in med school, but probably not more so than many Carib. students.

Bottom line...for whatever reason, the number of seats in us allo schools does not meet the demand for healthcare in this country. Yet there are more than enough qualified applicants. The result....us allo schools hand select not only the brightest (i.e. those with the highest numbers) they also select those who they feel will be the best doctors (and who knows what that means).

So what's my point? I don't really have one other than that the whole application process is truly a crap shoot. I say, more power to those going to the carib. They show a lot more determination than many us allo students, who simply had the numbers to get right in. I think those who aren't meant to be doctors wash out of those schools. They're left with genuinely good doctors. In an earlier post I mentioned that I currently shadow a 3rd year FP resident who is a Ross Grad. He is without question, the best doctor I've ever shadowed and I've been doing it for years. This guy EXEMPLIFIES a physician. He not only has the science of medicine down, he has the art of care-giving down. I hear so many people complain about FP...this guy LOVES it. He blew his boards away and could've gotten surgery, but he just loves one on one contact with people. This guy listens, he laughs, he touches, he cares! He's a great doctor. Making a 38 on the MCAT and having a 4.0 from an Ivy League school just means you have potential. It doesn't mean your compasionate. It doesn't mean you really care. I interviewed at USUHS this Feb. The admission officer there said it best: "You have to be a genius to get into medical school, but only work hard to stay in".

Yall think about it.
Click to expand...

They changed their website from last time i saw it. Guess what they didnt list any numbers for the avg stats of their students (hmmmmm a bit deceptive). Just a few months ago on the website it said avg gpa = 3.2; avg sci gpa = 3.1 and avg mcat was 24. I know people who got in with lower numbers than their avgs. You got to take anything SGU says with a grain of salt, for example everyone knows how blantantly inaccurate their match lists are.

There is a good chance that I may be attending sgu also, but to fool myself into believing false numbers is stupid. If for whatever reason you end up at SGU, you must acknowledge that at some point you screwed up. SGU isnt the end of the world (more like a second chance) but it certainly isnt the best situation to be in either.
 
NRAI2001 said:
There is a good chance that I may be attending sgu also, but to fool myself into believing false numbers is stupid. If for whatever reason you end up at SGU, you must acknowledge that at some point you screwed up. SGU isnt the end of the world (more like a second chance) but it certainly isnt the best situation to be in either.
Click to expand...

Don't be so hard on yourself.
It is a numbers game.
Know someone who was a peace and conflicts major at UC Berkeley GPA 3.9, took her premed sciences postbac at community college got straight As in them and went to UCLA med. It is all about being smart with your choices. Remember, study hard and post less.
 
neutropenic said:
Don't be so hard on yourself.
It is a numbers game.
Know someone who was a peace and conflicts major at UC Berkeley GPA 3.9, took her premed sciences postbac at community college got straight As in them and went to UCLA med. It is all about being smart with your choices. Remember, study hard and post less.
Click to expand...

Yea i know, numbers arent going to determine if your gonna be a good doctor, but they will determine what schools you go to and that will determine what oppurtonities you have upon graduation.

As with your friend, I know some other people who did similar things as your friend did, which was very smart on their parts.

SGU is a good backup. I am leaving my options open: masters programs, DO schools, SGU, year off?
 
NRAI2001 said:
Is it tough to get into mcgill? Like as hard as US schools?
Click to expand...

Canbadian med schools are about as hard to get into as the top US schools. There are FAR fewer schools and the spots are Canadian exclusive, except McGill. McGill is a top 3 school in Canada, and if you're not good enough to get into the top US schools, forget it.

Also they don't weight your US GPA the way they grade in canada, whicvh means that 3.7 you busted your ass for=a preseconday rejection, whereas someone with an 87% average, (B+ here but an A at msot canadian universities) gets in over you. Trust me I've argued with them and never even realized I would be screwed for transfering to a US school, I work so much harder for an A here than in Canada.

The GPA cut is around a 3.8 at many of them.

GRRRr.

I'm a little bitter, my own country screwed me over! Which is why I'm getting permanent residency in the US as soon as I can get my grimey canadian hands on it.
 
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EMDream said:
Canbadian med schools are about as hard to get into as the top US schools. There are FAR fewer schools and the spots are Canadian exclusive, except McGill. McGill is a top 3 school in Canada, and if you're not good enough to get into the top US schools, forget it.
Click to expand...

Actually, McGill is the top school in Canada and in the top 5 in the world.

UT and McGill tied for top in Canada and UT gets tonnes of funding when compared to McGill. No bias on my end :meanie:

ON the original topic, apply with a 2.5+ and a 25+ and interview well and you will have a shot at the top 4 schools. Pretending like a Caribbean medical school will throw you application away without wanting to meet you is denying the simple fact that Caribbean medical schools are always recruiting, which means they cannot afford to turn you away without checking out the whole story. Who knows? You may be paying cash :laugh:
 
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