Caribbean or the U.K.?

[Mike MacKinnon]

hey Arb

Well, I dont know thats its "better or faster" I just see how it can be percieved that way by some. I believe the largest advantage is that people only have to be there for 2 yrs and then back in the US for the rest of their time. It has alot to do with family situaton and such as well as competitiveness.

As far as my concerns for med school well it has alot to do with my personal expectations. I fully believe that EU students can do as well or better than US/Carib. students on the USMLE, it really is a factor of getting out if what you put into something. I also fully believe that the education in the UK/Ireland is superior to carib schools as their motive isnt profits (which is the #1 motive of Carib. schools). Secondly, i also think that after you have been running a med school for 300+ years, you probably have yer S*it togeather.

As far as USMLE's, it truly is simple prep. If you put in the work youll do well.

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[Arb]

Oh I thought when you said that Carrib. grads have an advantage gaining residency due to connections and clinical training in the US itself meant that you thought they gain residency positions easier.

When you say you believe you will obtain a better education in Ireland, do you mean that the 16 months in the Carribean studying the basic sciences is not up to par compared to Irish schools? You're not including the clinical years where Carribean students spend the rest of their time in US teaching hospitals correct? Oh another thing, for Carribean students, they don't need to do well on Step 1 to 'score' well. If you write it in December, there is less competition and you may score in the 90s instead of the 80s if you wrote in July. If you know the grouping of months for scoring can you inform me please!

For true FMGs (requiring a visa), the timeline is very important. You will getting your permanent residency status soon so I guess it doesn't matter for you but do you know what month a student in Ireland graduates? For the H1 visa, Canadian students (and others) need a buffer zone.

Any answers are appreciated thanks!

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Hey Arb

Let me see if i can help answer some of these.

Oh I thought when you said that Carrib. grads have an advantage gaining residency due to connections and clinical training in the US itself meant that you thought they gain residency positions easier.

I guess that is opinion more than anything else. You can see how someone who has spent all their clinical time in the US may well make contacts which will help them with residencies. I know of many who were offered positions outside the match based on clinical time spent at that facility. It also happens to USA MD/DO students as well but not as often with other FMG's simply because they do not develop those connections.

When you say you believe you will obtain a better education in Ireland, do you mean that the 16 months in the Carribean studying the basic sciences is not up to par compared to Irish schools?

Well again, I believe this is alot of opinion. Personally, I believe that a school which is focused on profit (all carib schools) will always have less of a focus on quality. It isnt rocket science, simply buisness. A school like Trinity or UCD in Ireland will have a focus on education and quality as they have signifigant reputations to maintain. Secondly, these schools are near free for Irish residents and therefore have no reason not to be excellent (no worries bad grades will deter students).

I also think that quality of education is directly related to quality of instructor. The majority of quality instructors are not choosing to live and work in the Carib. Who would?

You're not including the clinical years where Carribean students spend the rest of their time in US teaching hospitals correct?

I would agree here. I do not think that carib. med students clincial years are any different than any US student or UK/Ireland student in quality.

Oh another thing, for Carribean students, they don't need to do well on Step 1 to 'score' well. If you write it in December, there is less competition and you may score in the 90s instead of the 80s if you wrote in July. If you know the grouping of months for scoring can you inform me please!

I do not know the answer to this one. My understanding is the better you do on Step 1 the better the chances of good residencies. Of course, all your USMLE steps are important though. Better to ask someone in the process to know for sure.

For true FMGs (requiring a visa), the timeline is very important. You will getting your permanent residency status soon so I guess it doesn't matter for you but do you know what month a student in Ireland graduates? For the H1 visa, Canadian students (and others) need a buffer zone.

I agree. Green Cards/Permanent residency is a serious issue in the USA. I would be done my permanent residency potentially the end of this june (RIGHT before i could be moving to Dublin if accepted). This timeing couldnt be better. Very good point on the visa issue. You shoudl check into this with the local INS office, they were extremely helpful for me over the last couple of years in keeping me on track and time. I also retained an immigration lawyer for my green card process, this makes it MUCH easier and faster. The total process for green card is about 2 years from start to recieving the card.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Arb]

Hi Mike. Thanks for answering

I have to admit, the visa issue is the one thing I'm most worried about. I recently entered the Green Card Lottery so here's hoping it works out haha. I am concerned about the conditions for obtaining a green card. I believe you must spend the majority of the year in the United States but you/we will be in school overseas. Will you lose your green card because of this?

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Well here is how the process works.

1) Application for green card starts with change in status. I was working here under a TN visa and went to HB visa (since im an RN). This took about 6 months and alot of paperwork including finiancials from my place of work and everything i own basically, about myself.

2) During the time awaiting the HB visa (which for me is like a "in process for green card" card). You cannot leave the country or you forfit the application. Once you get the HB visa you also get a travel letter that says you are allowed to exit and enter the US. You will be pulled into the little white terrorist room EVERYTIME you travel outside the country and back in from that point on (believe me, my wife and i know).

3) Then the government will randomly ask for things that make absolutely no sense. I was already fingerprinted, they wanted it again. They wanted my long form birth cert. from Canada (I had no idea what that was until i had to find it). Then when thats done your lawyer will send that in. This entire time you MUST be residing in the USA.

4) Next you will be asked to go for a physical exam, this is a joke, but it must be done. You will also have to present all your immunizations so have em ready or get em again. This is added to your file with the government. You must still be in the country living at this time. (this is the step i just completed a month ago)

5) Next you may, or may not be called in by the INS for an interview. This is the last step. Once the interview is finished you are then approved for permanent residency and the card comes in the mail.

Once you have approval and attain a green card, it is permanent. You can come and go from the country as you please and Dublin would be no exception. However, up until that point, moving fromt he country will forfit your application.

Thats the process. Add to that alot of frustration and about 6000$ american and your a permanent resident. Yaaa.

 

[Arb]

I am not in America now so I will bypass all this change of status headache. Ahhh I didn't know I would have to be residing in the US before receiving the green card. Damn. How do med students in Europe handle this?

Damn it seems it's pretty much impossible to complete the issuance of visa procedure (Green Card Lottery) if one is not living in the States. Technically, one can get interviews in September 2006 but for those hoping to study overseas, it can be problematic.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Arb

good questions. I am not sure how all that works when applying from the other end. It is easier, i believe, when you are already in the states with a job. You would have to talk to the INS about that one!