Caribbean Schools.

[sakrisondurant]

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Does anyone have some insight on how it looks on your resume if you have attended a school in the Caribbean? I have been looking at St. George University as a back-up, and to be honest, it doesn’t look half bad! Seems like a very reputable school. Any thoughts? Does it hurt you in the job market to attend this type of school?

 

[armybound]

There are a lot of threads on this topic. Try searching the forums.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Looks worse than a US MD or DO program. That said, it's a good last resort option as you can still become a practicing physician in the US out of the Caribbean (it's just harder).

 

[paper love]

I'm coming out of lurkdom to answer this. I am a non-trad pre-med student. My husband went to Saba medical school in the caribbean. Although he is now board certified in Internal Medicine, the road has been tough compared to those graduating from US schools. He did clinical rotations all over the US, moving every 2 months or so, and had a tough time getting into residency. Go in the US if you can. However, he snorkeled between classes. 😀

 

[apumic]

Does anyone have some insight on how it looks on your resume if you have attended a school in the Caribbean? I have been looking at St. George University as a back-up, and to be honest, it doesn't look half bad! Seems like a very reputable school. Any thoughts? Does it hurt you in the job market to attend this type of school?

Here's a graphical representation of medical providers in healthcare:

Most Reputable/Trusted

MD

DO





PA/NP



















Carib Grad

Least Reputable

 

[bold text]

HAHAHA!!😆

 

[apumic]

OP... as for SGU...do you really expect their website to come right out and tell you "we're not a reputable med school"?!

Just keep this ad in mind:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsdlSpA2GU[/YOUTUBE]

Best line (and definitely applies to SGU): "If we were a good university, we wouldn't have a commercial."

 

[Electronegative]

If you visit the school's website they have so many successs stories, but keep in mind about half of the students don't pass the boards and left with debt and worthles degree, check out the caribbean thread.

EN

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Best line (and definitely applies to SGU): "If we were a good university, we wouldn't have a commercial."

Reminds me of the days CWRU had TV commercials on MTV.




I think SGU looks great and I currently have a friend done there -- starting his second year, so he is kinda my guinea pig. The two years of clinical rotations in NYC sound exciting. I wouldn't recommend the England/Carib route because you can't practice in Cali or New Jersey last I heard... and you shouldn't limit your options just for a year in England (so apply before January).

I disagree that carib grads are looked way less down upon than MD/DOs. Yes, it won't be the best school and the easiest time, but if you stay focused, do well on your exams, get good recommendations, you can go pretty far. The school matters less than the person -- as many doctors get patients based on recommendations and well, if you are a good physician, you will do well.

Just make sure if you apply there, to be prepared to work your butt off to do as good as you can because being a carib grad might make residency harder... but, you can still do it. [[also be warned that you will be living in a third world country. last I read about SGU was they didn't have wireless internet everywhere... or even internet everywhere... and I like me some internet. There isn't also a whole lot to do besides study.]]

I might be done there with you come next August

 

[Avoidthetiger]

If you visit the school's website they have so many successs stories, but keep in mind about half of the students don't pass the boards and left with debt and worthles degree, check out the caribbean thread.

EN

They claim to have a 93% pass rate on the USMLE

edit: looked online and it was 84.4% over a 15 year period -- but they say it's risen lately

 

[christina30]

They claim to have a 93% pass rate on the USMLE

Maybe, but what percent of the original class of MS1s actually GETS that far? A very small one.

 

[Electronegative]

They claim to have a 93% pass rate on the USMLE

Yes they do, but I remember reading an article (not sure sdn or somewhere else), that the Department of Education had no means of knowing the real pass rates and was giving out loans to students blindly.

EN

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Maybe, but what percent of the original class of MS1s actually GETS that far? A very small one.

They also claim 85% of SGUSOM students graduate from SGU; 6-7% transfer into and graduate from US schools.

Don't know if this is true... but well, I feel like someone should call them out on it if it isn't.

for the other poster, don't understand the blind loan comment. ?
Everyone at SGU is eligible for US loans (if a US citizen).

 

[Electronegative]

Found it.

Foreign medical students interviewed by the GAO stated that finding information on expected debt level and pass rates at different schools was difficult to obtain, even when schools were asked explicitly about the information. “[The school’s] marketing statement says that the school’s pass rate is 98 percent on Step 1. Even U.S. schools don’t hit this mark. But [the school] only counts those students who actually sit for the exam and don’t drop out,” one focus group participant reported (school not identified in report).

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/06/gao-recommends-greater-oversight-of-foreign-medical-schools/

EN

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Found it.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/06/gao-recommends-greater-oversight-of-foreign-medical-schools/

EN

Thanks EN. It sounds good the the US is finally doing this -- they should have been a long time ago. I still do think SGU is a good alternative and will probably meet the requirements.. and if they don't than the US shouldn't fund students attending... which will make SGU have to get its act straight to continue to receive student's money.

 

[pennstate4life]

Here's a graphical representation of medical providers in healthcare:

Most Reputable/Trusted

MD

DO





PA/NP



















Carib Grad

Least Reputable

Are you hinting that MD is better than DO??!?!? How dare you.

 

[Funky]

Are you hinting that MD is better than DO??!?!? How dare you.

PA's are at the same level as NP??

 

[Funky]

Ok but honestly, you can work on your tan on a beautiful beach while you're studying! How cool is that???

And plus SDN is sponsored by SGU so it has to be good right?

 

[apumic]

PA's are at the same level as NP??

It really depends on who you talk to, so I put them at the same level. They're both midlevels. NPs have more autonomy in a number of states and are trained for a longer period of time. OTOH, PAs are trained medically from the beginning and with all the "Accelerated NP" programs cropping up, a 3-yr PA program is probably better than a 2-year "accelerated NP." Additionally, most docs I've worked with prefer to work with PAs over NPs because NPs often never let go of their nursing mentality.... As I stated before, it really depends who you ask.

Are you hinting that MD is better than DO??!?!? How dare you.

lol...

 

[MexicanDr]

PA's are at the same level as NP??

Also, PAs have the ability to do a medical residency in either EM, Surgery, Trauma and other areas which are not offered for NPs.

These PA grads intern with MD/DO residents so i guess its an advantage.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I really doubt you'll be hugely discriminated once you complete residency. This idea that an NP/PA is higher than a Caribbean MD is simply ludicrous. If you graduated from the Caribbean and have a residency, it means you did your USMLE and are at the same or higher level than US MD or DO graduates based on scores. However, you'll be treated as less anyway in terms of getting residency.

 

[apumic]

I really doubt you'll be hugely discriminated once you complete residency. This idea that an NP/PA is higher than a Caribbean MD is simply ludicrous. If you graduated from the Caribbean and have a residency, it means you did your USMLE and are at the same or higher level than US MD or DO graduates based on scores. However, you'll be treated as less anyway in terms of getting residency.

Honestly, you're right. IF you make it all the way AND snag a US residency, you will be treated as a licensed MD in the US. However, MOST Carib grads DON'T get residencies in the U.S. and, therefore, will never be treated as US licensed MDs. If you never get licensed here than you are essentially below an NP/PA!

Anecdotally, my dad's top candidate for his group's clinic happens to be a graduate of a Mexican medical school. Does the fact that the guy is an FMG matter to these docs? Heck no -- the well-mannered guy from a Mexican med school will get the interview over the ill-tempered guy who went to a prestigious US med school and had his residency at Mayo any day of the week (the latter candidate is also a real one who had some major temper issues in his past; I have changed the institution of the residency for privacy reasons but the tier is similar).

 

[LRAccord624]

There is a poster on here who attends Ross, JonathanMD. He has been writing a blog ever since he was accepted to Ross: 4medschool.blogspot.com. He also has an old blog about his road to a Caribbean medical school: 2medschool.blogspot.com.

His blog is very honest and interesting; anyone considering going to the Caribbean for medical school should check it out. Especially look at "preparing for dominica"- think about having to ship all your food down there😱- he says that's what most students do, because you never know what kind of food will be available on the island.

 

[mspeedwagon]

👍. I absolutely love his blog. It is a great resource. He does admit that if one can go to a US MD or DO school, it is an easier route.

Few points about things mentioned above. SGU claims their pass rate to be 84%. Make note that this is not FIRST time pass rate. Next note that the attrition is high so not all those starting get to sit for the exam. Further, you have to pass the shelf exams to even be able to sit for the USMLE. They have more barriers in place to ensure only students likely to pass take the exam.

When all is said and done you will always carry the stigma of being a Caribbean MD. Look at all the top hospitals in the US: Harvard, Stanford, JHU etc. There are a lot of US MDs, a few DOs and NEVER any Caribbean grads.

Also, NPs and PAs are pretty much equal in most states in the US. Similar salaries and similar job responsibilities, so it is a far comparison. In some states, like MA, it's better to be an NP since you can work autonomously. In others, PAs are better. On aggregate they are the same.

The Caribbean is a great last resort option. Treat it as such.

There is a poster on here who attends Ross, JonathanMD. He has been writing a blog ever since he was accepted to Ross: 4medschool.blogspot.com. He also has an old blog about his road to a Caribbean medical school: 2medschool.blogspot.com.

His blog is very honest and interesting; anyone considering going to the Caribbean for medical school should check it out. Especially look at "preparing for dominica"- think about having to ship all your food down there😱- he says that's what most students do, because you never know what kind of food will be available on the island.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

When all is said and done you will always carry the stigma of being a Caribbean MD. Look at all the top hospitals in the US: Harvard, Stanford, JHU etc. There are a lot of US MDs, a few DOs and NEVER any Caribbean grads.

Maybe it's best not to make absolutist claims. 😉

5th year radiology resident from St George.
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/radiology/residency/bios/sshanganath.aspx

 

[docdoc121]

Go to the Caribbean. Everyone is doing it.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Alright, I stand corrected. I'm going to bet there are more DOs than Caribbean MDs. I worked there (well technically an employee of DFCI, but did a lot of work with Childrens and Bringham).

Maybe it's best not to make absolutist claims. 😉

5th year radiology resident from St George.
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/radiology/residency/bios/sshanganath.aspx

 

[ILikeDrugs]

It would be good to note that the 5th year rads resident at Brighams Hospital from St George did her undergrad at Yale. I'm sure that helped her.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I noticed something else weird... she graduate in 3 yrs from Yale. 96 to 99. I think that may have excluded her from being a viable candidate from a few US med schools.

It would be good to note that the 5th year rads resident at Brighams Hospital from St George did her undergrad at Yale. I'm sure that helped her.

 

[jm192]

SGU and Ross University both have a rather long list of residency placement within the United States.

I agree with everyone else that says go US MD and US DO before going to the Carribean. But, if you're not placing there for whatever reason, and you want to be a doctor, by all means go to the Carribean.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I agree with you. Just remember that half of those starting out at Ross don't make it. Read this blog first: http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

SGU and Ross University both have a rather long list of residency placement within the United States.

I agree with everyone else that says go US MD and US DO before going to the Carribean. But, if you're not placing there for whatever reason, and you want to be a doctor, by all means go to the Carribean.

 

[pennstate4life]

Maybe it's best not to make absolutist claims. 😉

5th year radiology resident from St George.
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/radiology/residency/bios/sshanganath.aspx

LOL never would've though she likes to watch cooking shows. By "watch" she meant eat. And by "shows" she meant double quarter pounders.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

However, MOST Carib grads DON'T get residencies in the U.S. and, therefore, will never be treated as US licensed MDs. If you never get licensed here than you are essentially below an NP/PA!

If they don't get licensed, they are not anywhere near that list as they would not be able to do anything that a licensed doctor/mid-level is able to do.

But in terms of one who is licensed, in the realm of your average clinic private practice, "MD" still seem to be the golden initials compared to DO, PA or NP.

 

[rama kandra]

don't do it.

 

[SitraAchra]

But in terms of one who is licensed, in the realm of your average clinic private practice, "MD" still seem to be the golden initials compared to DO, PA or NP.

In your average clinical practice, any of those initials can treat your average medical problem.

 

[pennstate4life]

In your average clinical practice, any of those initials can treat your average medical problem.

You know if you go Caribbean you won't be able to practice in Arizona.

 

[SitraAchra]

You know if you go Caribbean you won't be able to practice in Arizona.

I still get offers from Caribbean med schools, not sure how they got my info. I'm a PGY-1 so I'm not terribly worried about where I'll practice. If I wasn't bored on call it'd probably be sad I'm trolling the pre-med forum. Nah, still sad.

 

[Jay Leno]

I still get offers from Caribbean med schools, not sure how they got my info. I'm a PGY-1 so I'm not terribly worried about where I'll practice. If I wasn't bored on call it'd probably be sad I'm trolling the pre-med forum. Nah, still sad.

Don't worry, this place is like a high school parking lot - you never know who's going to be hanging around here years after they've graduated and have nothing else to do.

 

[pennstate4life]

Don't worry, this place is like a high school parking lot - you never know who's going to be hanging around here years after they've graduated and have nothing else to do.

OMFG Jay Leno!!! Why did you steal Conan's show 🙁

 

[whatbout2morrow]

In your average clinical practice, any of those initials can treat your average medical problem.

Yes, but your average patient would still prefer to see the MD over the others.

 

[SitraAchra]

I'm of the mindset that the majority of primary care problems could be easily addressed by a well-trained PA or NP who know their scope and can identify when something is more prescient and requiring an MD/DO.

I don't think you need a fully trained MD to manage your diabetes, hypertension, and high cholesterol. Or to rule on bacterial vs. viral upper respiratory infections.

Oh well, I'm not doing primary care anyways so what do I know.

I just think that unless you're in a private setting, most of the medicare/medicaid patients have no idea what the qualifications of the person treating them are, nor do they care as long as their problems are addressed and taken care of. The phrase "average patient" was used so I'm sticking with the underserved population.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

You know if you go Caribbean you won't be able to practice in Arizona.

source please?

SGU claims you can practice in all states once you are fully licensed -- unless you go the UK/Carib route (NJ and CA haven't approved that program yet).

 

[mspeedwagon]

Google health or medhelp can manage most of the conditions below. If you didn't need a prescription, the majority of people with the conditions below could treat themselves.

I'm of the mindset that the majority of primary care problems could be easily addressed by a well-trained PA or NP who know their scope and can identify when something is more prescient and requiring an MD/DO.

I don't think you need a fully trained MD to manage your diabetes, hypertension, and high cholesterol. Or to rule on bacterial vs. viral upper respiratory infections.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm assuming the above poster was not serious. The Big 4 schools are approved in all 50 states... now whether or not you want to call AZ a state depends.

source please?

SGU claims you can practice in all states once you are fully licensed -- unless you go the UK/Carib route (NJ and CA haven't approved that program yet).

 

[Ilvcurst]

I was intrigued by SGU, applied and was accepted. But after applying last cycle and doing a LOT of research on the school, I was dreading every day that I would have to go there.

It is NOT a good choice. I think I agree with others that if you can, do a post-bac, SMP, up your MCAT and go US.

Now I probably would have gone if I didn't get in this cycle. But this is because I really want to move on. If you have the energy, time, and eagerness then improve your marks before you go Caribbean.

I think only 47% of FMG matched last year? You have an impossible shot at anything competitive, you are mostly looking at FP or IM. The programs you match into are not going to be good at all. Most programs don't even take FMGs.

So think carefully before you go...do more research.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I'm assuming the above poster was not serious. The Big 4 schools are approved in all 50 states... now whether or not you want to call AZ a state depends.

I get it now... just was tired yesterday, haha.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'm assuming the above poster was not serious. The Big 4 schools are approved in all 50 states... now whether or not you want to call AZ a state depends.

Having lived four years before medical school in AZ I would personally like to submit that we forget they exist and add them the George Bush Axis of Evil.

 

[blaithnaid]

Having lived four years before medical school in AZ I would personally like to submit that we forget they exist and add them the George Bush Axis of Evil.

2nded.

No one tell Winged.