Case's DMD/MD program...

DATBooster | The Ultimate DAT Resource
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
This is truly interesting! Maybe this program will deter and filter those dental students who are really interested in the MD instead of OMFS so OMFS applicants are true OMFS lovers.

Or for true OMFS lovers, this can be a way to cut one year short of residency:

Traditional Route: 4 years of dental + 6 years of OMFS residency (DMD/MD) = 10 years

New CWRU Route: 5 years of Dual Degree (DMD/MD) + 4 years of OMFS residency = 9 years

This program is interesting, you are required to take the MCAT, but the program is controlled by the Dental School Admissions. I'm sure an interview is required by both the dental and medical schools.

I like it, I believe this program may be on something here.

Who ever enrolls into this program will have their plates full.
 
This may become a reason for the Insurance Company to own us like they are doing w/ the medical field. Making dentistry seem more "medicine"-like.
 
So, will they have practicing dental office? Or will they have a specialty practice? I'm not sure why a general dentist would need both the DDS and a MD or why a MD would need a DDS.

Are they going to be the new superDoc with one stop shopping for all your health needs? Have a crown prep and a pap smear all in one visit?

It just seems really unecessary. I can see dentstry becoming a specialty of medicine. 4 yrs of med school then specialize in dentistry.
 
germ said:
So, will they have practicing dental office? Or will they have a specialty practice? I'm not sure why a general dentist would need both the DDS and a MD or why a MD would need a DDS.

Are they going to be the new superDoc with one stop shopping for all your health needs? Have a crown prep and a pap smear all in one visit?

It just seems really unecessary. I can see dentstry becoming a specialty of medicine. 4 yrs of med school then specialize in dentistry.
Click to expand...
In really rural settings I can see an advantage to have a "doctor" that is both knowledgible in medicine and dentistry. Then again, it's not a bad idea to have dentists to know more than just "the mouth" when it comes to treating patients.
 
Louisville tried this 7-8 years ago and gave it up.
 
I honestly see this as the future. it does seem kinda silly to have separate fields (dentistry and medicine) when we all have the same education for the most part. i like to tell my pre-med friends about this, just so they have the realization "gee, maybe a dental student isn't a 'med school reject'" i hate that attitude (seinfeld blew it for us, or maybe saved me from a job of hell and instead the most gratifying job ever). at the same time i see this program as simply a title thing, i dont see how you could offer both services and people would take you seriously. i mean, cmon, majority of people think theres a difference between a DO and a MD, let alone a DDS/MD. but honestly, i could see myself enrolling in this just b/c it would be such an all encompassing career choice. i love dentistry and i am thrilled everyday i shadow. but at the same time, i truly enjoy helping people, and i see being a MD and DDS as being the best way to treat people across the board. imagine being the one stop practioner. not that i am seeing dollar signs, but this would increase business exponentially. with this profession, you could live virtually in any town/city in the world. im liking this idea...
 
Seems like a cool idea, but I don't see it as very practical unless you are looking at a career in academia or research. In order to actually do anything with the MD you would have to do at least a 3 year residency.

In practice I think you would have to choose one field or the other. If you tried to do both you would just be too inefficient to really help your patients. You would need different equipment, a huge office, a GIGANTIC cross-trained staff. It would be a mess.
 
Yah-E said:
Traditional Route: 4 years of dental + 6 years of OMFS residency (DMD/MD) = 10 years

New CWRU Route: 5 years of Dual Degree (DMD/MD) + 4 years of OMFS residency = 9 years
Click to expand...

CorneliusFudge said:
In order to actually do anything with the MD you would have to do at least a 3 year residency.
Click to expand...

Well. lets see here:

Traditional MD+OMFS route:

4 years dent + 6 years (which includes MD plus 1-year ACGME gen surg and OMFS training)

So the 1 year of gen surg is what gives you your MD licence. Is this correct?

If someone did this program 5 year DMD/MD and then a 4-year OMFS program, would you still be able to use your gen surg or other rotations during the 4 year program to obtain a state MD license? 😕

Or would you have to do 5 year DMD/MD -> 4-year OMFS + 1-2yr ACGME gen surg? In which case its not shorter.
 
sarah_bellum said:
Anyone applying to this? Thoughts?

http://dental.case.edu/dmdmd/
Click to expand...
So, they'll be taking NDBE part I and II, as well as STEPS I, II, and III. Not to mention regional dental and medical licencing boards? And for what? The website itself says that this program is to train medically-focused dentists. Why not just create a DMD program that is more medically based in the first two years like they do at Harvard and Columbia and UConn?

If I had this DMD-MD degree, and were a practicing dentist, there's no way I'd include anything seriously medical in my practice. I mean, having an MD degree doesn't mean you know anything about medicine; you learn how to actually practice medicine in a medical residency program.

This program sounds flashy and innovative, but I really think it's quite stupid. Thinking about it another way, this student in the DMD/MD program (who is primarily going to be doing dentistry) is going to be taking an MD position away from Case's regular MD program. I think I would rather have an extra full-time doctor added to America's medical workforce, than have some psuedo-medicodental professional.

👎 👎
 
Do you foresee students graduating from this program "jumping ship" from dentistry and will pursue medical specialties?

But the reality is, lets be objective here, this program will not be a "side door" to get a MD degree because I am assuming that this program will be very competitive to get in. CWRU is a top Medical School hovering around #14 or 15 in the US according to US NEWS rankings so the MCAT requirement will be high to say the least.

So if it's not a "side door", if one wanted to be a MD, then (s)he will might as well just apply and go to a medical school and only do 4 years and skip all that dental learning. Applicants of this program really has to have a bit of interest in Dentistry, if not true passion for dentistry to put up with all that dental preclinical lab courses!

Let us brainstorm, why would a dentist want a medical degree (except for OMFSs)? Makes no sense! You're surely not going to practice under a medical license if you have a dental license to work with, right? What advantage(s) would a dentist have to have a MD? My theory is 90% of the student graduating from this program will go for a 4-year OMFS residency. Discuss benefit(s), if any for a general dentist to have a MD degree (not talking about oral surgeons here, that's different)...
 
When was information on this program released?

The website says that "Case anticipates the launch of this Dentist-Physician dual degree initiative in July 2007." If this is true then how can they require that "The MCAT should be completed no later than August 1st of the year in which you are applying." (in other words applicants must have taken the MCAT on or before April 22, 2006 as the next MCAT date is August 19). Anyone follow?

If this is really the case, then they have effectively ruled out everyone who was planning on originally attending dental school and is interested in this program, as they have made the MCAT mandatory and the DAT optional. So in reality this program is intended for students who were originally interested in medical school.

Anyone know how many students will be in this program and if students can apply to both the traditional DMD and the DMD-MD program?
 
Yah-E said:
My theory is 90% of the student graduating from this program will go for a 4-year OMFS residency.
Click to expand...
If I were an interviewer for DMD/DDS admissions, I suspect the most annoying thing would be having some college kid telling me that they're 100% sure they want to go into oral surgery, or ortho, or whatever. How on earth do these people know anything about oral surgery, or even dentistry for that matter, when they're first applying? So, making this some sort of awesome pre-omfs program is irresponsible and silly in my opinion. Not that you're saying that, Yah-E.
 
I think that this is a fantastic option for anyone interested in plastic surgeory, on our phonebook there is a plastic surgeon who has a DMD/MD, great idea, IMO.
 
Clipse said:
When was information on this program released?

The website says that "Case anticipates the launch of this Dentist-Physician dual degree initiative in July 2007." If this is true then how can they require that "The MCAT should be completed no later than August 1st of the year in which you are applying." (in other words applicants must have taken the MCAT on or before April 22, 2006 as the next MCAT date is August 19). Anyone follow?
Click to expand...

This August is the last time the MCAT will be administered on paper. It's all CBTs after that, with something like 19 test dates spread throughout the year. If the program is launched in July 2007, applicants have several chances to take it before the August deadline.
 
dentintraining said:
I think that this is a fantastic option for anyone interested in plastic surgeory, on our phonebook there is a plastic surgeon who has a DMD/MD, great idea, IMO.
Click to expand...
If you want to be a plastic surgeon right from the get-go, better off to go to medical school right off the bat. The DMD/MD is not a "fantastic" option for students that wants to be in a plastic surgeon. Medical school is 4 years while this DMD/MD program is a 5 year committment.

The plastic surgeon in your phonebook with the DMD/MD is probably an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeon (OMFS) first then became a Plastic Surgeon.
 
Yah-E said:
Discuss benefit(s), if any for a general dentist to have a MD degree (not talking about oral surgeons here, that's different)...
Click to expand...

Maybe Oral Medicine/Pathology: Again, not required. But some may find this a valuable option.

Lester W. Burket, D.D.S., M.D.
 
Yah-E said:
If you want to be a plastic surgeon right from the get-go, better off to go to medical school right off the bat. The DMD/MD is not a "fantastic" option for students that wants to be in a plastic surgeon. Medical school is 4 years while this DMD/MD program is a 5 year committment.

The plastic surgeon in your phonebook with the DMD/MD is probably an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeon (OMFS) first then became a Plastic Surgeon.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you've said, but some people who would otherwise ONLY want to apply to medical school and KNOW they want to either be an ENT or Plastic surgeon may want to apply to this because it might possibly make them more competative than someone who only had a medical degree when time comes to apply to surgery programs. (especially if it only took 1 more year to complete). Everyone knows that dentists make better surgeons because they get to develop their hand skills to perfection.
 
NufinButTheToof said:
I agree with what you've said, but some people who would otherwise ONLY want to apply to medical school and KNOW they want to either be an ENT or Plastic surgeon may want to apply to this because it might possibly make them more competative than someone who only had a medical degree when time comes to apply to surgery programs. (especially if it only took 1 more year to complete). Everyone knows that dentists make better surgeons because they get to develop their hand skills to perfection.
Click to expand...
Nope, plastics only care about USMLE Step 1! A dental degree won't help a bit.
 
Yah-E said:
Nope, plastics only care about USMLE Step 1! A dental degree won't help a bit.
Click to expand...

I disagree with you on this. in my school we've had 3 general surgeon residents enter the advanced DDS program and matched into plastics right after. we have a great multidisciplinary cleft-craniofacial center perhaps that explains the connection. i think it would be a leg up if the applicant knows for sure they want OMFS or plastics. this assumes they score 90 percentile plus and rank high in class. but what happens when this applicant changes their mind to orthodontics??!!!
DDS degrees teach enough "medicine" to practice oral surg, oral path, etc. so from a knowledge gaining standpoint i don't see the point of the extra year for a MD.
I know of one DDS and MD (was an MD first, then did dental b/c of all the pts he saw with dental infections) who works in extremely med and dentally underserved rural pennsylvania. He kind of merged a med family practice and general dental practice together. so theoretically it would be a nice "one-stop" option, especially in underserved areas, but this one'stop deal could be done just by bringing an MD and DMD together and joining offices. for one person to do both would be quite difficult. and as someone else said, most of the learning in med school occurs during residency, so the DDS/MD would have to do 3 yrs family med. philosophically though it's a feel good dual degree to have.
 
I don't understand why a M.D. is needed? I mean, WHY?? We each have our own separate fields.. We're teeth and jaw-related... they're rest of the human body.
 
NonTradMed said:
This August is the last time the MCAT will be administered on paper. It's all CBTs after that, with something like 19 test dates spread throughout the year. If the program is launched in July 2007, applicants have several chances to take it before the August deadline.
Click to expand...

I don't follow... 😕

The deadline to take the MCAT is August 2006 - so if you take the CBT in January of 2007 you would have already missed the deadline for the class entering in Fall of 2007.

Are you entering med school at CWRU? If so, what's the perception of the dual degree program over there?
 
toofache32 said:
This thread is hilarious for some reason.
Click to expand...


Yea I noticed. I think its because people are actually trying to understand it as opposed to thowing out oneliners.
 
Clipse said:
I don't follow... 😕

The deadline to take the MCAT is August 2006 - so if you take the CBT in January of 2007 you would have already missed the deadline for the class entering in Fall of 2007.

Are you entering med school at CWRU? If so, what's the perception of the dual degree program over there?
Click to expand...

Sorry, not entering CWRU. Just another premed entering med school. The thread title caught my eye.

I just assumed the July 2007 is the start of the application process for the first class (I could be wrong), not the entering class, in which case taking the MCAT January (or Feb, March etc) 2007 would be ample time to prep for the 2007 application process.
 
i think this program would be awesome to graduate from. If I had the stats, I would probably seriously look into it.

To me, it shaves off a huge part of the bureaucracy you will have to deal with whatever healthcare field you're in. The more you have a license to know about, the less they can tell you what to do with your knowledge. By they I mean insurance companies, etc.
 
Is this program for those who are mainly interested in primary care? I doubt it's a good idea otherwise. Since you have to take both dental and medschool courses, you might have less time to study for step1, so if you want to go into a competitive med specialty, it's easy to get screwed. but even if you do, you'll have lost 1 year, since you won't be needing any dental skills if you become a dermatologist. Also if you want to do omfs or orthodontics, it's easy to get screwed, because you may not do well on step1 or your grades may not be good if your classmates all compete with you.

On the other hand, you may wait 5 years before deciding whether to be a dentist or a doctor?
 
bump. what is the manual dexterity test that is required for this program? i assume it is conducted during the interview?
 
this is a waste of time. i am at case dental along with my husband, and if you have to spend half your time trying to be a good physician, and half trying to be a dentist, you are going to be poorly qualified for both instead of very qualified for one.
 
A lot of people in the profession forget how nice and plush it is to be a DMD. Consider this. Your governing body is very active and supportive (the ADA), and fights to the teeth to keep things under your profession's control. The other governing body (AMA) isn't as strong as the ADA, thus they've suffered immensely because the federal government has taken control of a lot of issues for the medical field.

Why would any dentist in their right mind want to do dentistry AND medicine? They're essentially the same field, but with vastly different ways of working. Politically, this would be suicide for the dental profession. Interestingly enough, if medicine weren't so bastardized by government this would do what many people wanted dentistry to be a long time ago... that's to be "a true" part of medicine.

What I mean by that is, the public's view of medicine and dentistry are two separate entities (heck, even we do the same thing). Truth to that matter is dentistry is an integral part of medicine, and should be treated as such. However, the political aspects of it really make merging with medicine very unappealing. Again, WHY would one want to lose their autonomy and luxury of freedom by making things more complicated with an MD degree? With OMS, I can understand this. OMS guys/gals need the hospital environment. They need thos facilities and the support from the hospital to do what they do. That's why the MD/DMD degree was developed for them. It makes their life MUCH easier. To the general dentist and other specialists (perio, prosth, endo, ortho, and most pedo) you don't need the hospital. There are peds who do a lot of OR cases, but you don't need an MD for hospital privileges.

Whether it succeeds or fails, who knows. What I do know is I want dentistry to be kept away from medicine in that regard. The more you try to work your way into the MD/DO realm, the more you're asking for trouble. If you really want the MD, go to med school. If you like some things of dentistry but need the MD, that essentially means you're moving down the path of an OMFS or an Oral Pathologist.

What Yah-E says about this program is spot on for that reason. Any other, and it's a big waste of time.


mlle said:
i think this program would be awesome to graduate from. If I had the stats, I would probably seriously look into it.

To me, it shaves off a huge part of the bureaucracy you will have to deal with whatever healthcare field you're in. The more you have a license to know about, the less they can tell you what to do with your knowledge. By they I mean insurance companies, etc.
Click to expand...


You're totally wrong about that one. Ever wonder why insurance pays crap/nothing for what many MD, PhD guys do for their patients? Docs don't set the standards of insurance. Insurance and government does.
 
I have an interest in omfs. but also in other medical specialties including anesthesia, ortho,etc. I am also interested in learning about general dentistry and might even moonlight in it while in some medical residency! But i doubt i would want a career as a general dentist, which is why i doubt i would apply to dds programs. though perhaps if i did a 5 year dds/md program, i might decide in the end that i actually prefer dentistry over doing some residency. dds/md seems to augment the md experience.
 
putting the average dental student in a medical school class.... may just cause the average dental student to fail out! I have to criticize this medical/dental shindig.

plus, dental students would just complain that they're learning junk not relevant to their career, and some'll see it as an opportunity or reason to not focus as hard.

.... why would a dental student need to learn the exact location and exact muscle the anterior tibial nerve penetrates?
 
jkh1886 said:
putting the average dental student in a medical school class.... may just cause the average dental student to fail out! I have to criticize this medical/dental shindig.

plus, dental students would just complain that they're learning junk not relevant to their career, and some'll see it as an opportunity or reason to not focus as hard.

.... why would a dental student need to learn the exact location and exact muscle the anterior tibial nerve penetrates?
Click to expand...

shut up.. Your posts suck. 👎 As does your sig.
 
jkh1886 said:
putting the average dental student in a medical school class.... may just cause the average dental student to fail out! I have to criticize this medical/dental shindig.

plus, dental students would just complain that they're learning junk not relevant to their career, and some'll see it as an opportunity or reason to not focus as hard.

.... why would a dental student need to learn the exact location and exact muscle the anterior tibial nerve penetrates?
Click to expand...

this program requires mcat, while dat is optional. so i doubt it would have lower standards for admissions than the regular md program at case. as for dental students in med classes, columbia has it(and some other schools too) and they tend to do just fine. most of what you learn in medschool and in residency is also irrelevant to your career once you go into private practice and specialize in something. but it's a great experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Virtual Shadowing for BS/DMD programs
Replies
3
Views
681
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
E
Usask DMD program- how to prepare for MMI interview
Replies
1
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
K
Getting into BS/DDS (BS/DMD). Seeking advice
Replies
5
Views
2K
doc toothache
doc toothache
T
  • Question Question
UAB Blaze to DMD Program
Replies
1
Views
2K
jungleboi
J
A
Roseman MBS Program - APPLICANT BEWARE
Replies
1
Views
1K
Big Time Hoosier
Big Time Hoosier
Top