CCOM vs. PCOM

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by PeterLemonjello, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. PeterLemonjello

    PeterLemonjello Junior Member

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    Hello all you people that should be doing something constructive - myself included. I have resisted the temptation to post, but I must now give in to the evil internet muses. I have been accepted into both PCOM and CCOM and am having a hell of a time deciding between the two. Both are ~100yrs old and have great reps etc., etc. I have read people from both schools post here and say each is great - and I'm sure that's true. However, I need to know if there is a definitive "champion" of the two. I don't have enough $$$$ to keep putting this decision off (as in continued dual deposits). So, I am putting my life in the hands of the SDN crowd. Any current/former students of each or anyone who has had this choice (we lucky dogs, those with a choice) please let me know what's up. Thank you and good night. <img border="0" alt="[Pissy]" title="" src="graemlins/pissy.gif" />
     
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  3. grkbuckeye

    grkbuckeye Senior Member

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    hey man, i was also in your shoes. i was fortuate enough to get into both PCOM and CCOM. In the end I chose CCOM (my wife and i both, we both got in). It really was the hardest decision to make. We chose Chicago because we have family in the Chicago area and the city is our home away from home. While both are excelent schools, I will say that Chicago is a MUCH nicer city. Also, I know from family members who are doctors in chicago that CCOM has great roation sites. Besides thier own teaching hospital (Olympia Fields), students rotate through UIC and Cook County for their third years. During your fourth year their I hear your pretty free to rotate all over the city if you want. I know of students who even go to University of Chicago. I've heard that in Philly, even though you rotate through MCPH with their students, you are kept separate and aren't really treated as equals (this is what i've heard from other students there). Basically they are both great schools. Chicago DEFINETLY is a better city, and better rotations. Hope some of this helps!
     
  4. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

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    Go to Chicago. 260 in a class is crazy to me.
     
  5. maphilips

    maphilips Member

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    Chicago, especially DG, is the far cleaner, safer, prettier, and better place to rotate. I don't see any pluses for PCOM that surpass CCOM. PCOM is a good school, but CCOM is the place to be.
     
  6. One-Zero

    One-Zero Member

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    I, like PeterLemonjello, am from South Florida and facing the same dilemma between PCOM and CCOM. To me they are dead equal right now and I need to make a decision very soon. I have shadowed highly respected physicians down here from both schools. Did anyone else out there have the same decision to make and what made you choose what you did? Does the class size really matter? Is there a major difference in weather between the two cities? I know the curriculums are quite different- any feedback on that? I was under the impression that the clinical rotations in Philly were better...??? Thanks

    Go Buckeyes!
     
  7. grkbuckeye

    grkbuckeye Senior Member

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    Hulk, Chicago is 100x better as far as a city goes. You can't even compare the two! As for Phillys rotations, i think the reason you rotate all around is because they no longer have a teaching hospital of their own. Don't get me wrong, it still has a great rep. I think the things that give Chicago a slight edge are 1.) better rotations. 2) MUCH BETTER CITY!

    oh yea....Two Buckeyes will also be attending chicago!! thats got to count for something, right?? haha!
     
  8. Dancer

    Dancer Member

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    Just FYI--Chicago is WAY colder than Philly. Philly average winter temps are I would say about 35F. Anyone want to share Chicago average temp?
     
  9. PeterLemonjello

    PeterLemonjello Junior Member

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    Thanks to all who responded. I must agree that I got a safer feeling from the DG area. Although, I
    didn't get to see downtown Chi-town, so I can't speak on the safety of the city. PCOM-ers are being awfully quiet out there....HELLO????? I would love to hear from someone who likes/dislikes PCOM for whatever reason(s).

    Dancer, do you go to PCOM, or are you just filling us in on the weather?

    I may be from sunny, warm, bikini-clad girls all year-round florida <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> , but I won't let weather be the deciding factor in my medical education. I can always move back on a couple of years. Besides, absence makes the heart grow fonder or some B.S. What I really need to know is this: Is Chicago-style pizza better, or are Philly cheesesteaks the better way to get fat?

    Also, CCOM provided me with a web address that gave the links to all(?) their affiliated hospitals and had descriptions of the clinicals. Anyone know about such things for PCOM? Okay, I've blabbered enough, c-ya.
     
  10. grkbuckeye

    grkbuckeye Senior Member

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    Whats the website for the CCOM clinicals????
     
  11. doatc

    doatc Senior Member

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    Here is a good resource for clinical info at CCOM

    <a href="http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/ccomclined/" target="_blank">http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/ccomclined/</a>

    Bill
    M4 CCOM
     
  12. One-Zero

    One-Zero Member

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    Anybody from PCOM or going to PCOM have anything to add?
     
  13. PeterLemonjello

    PeterLemonjello Junior Member

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    sorry. i should have had that in there. the web address i have is the same as listed above except (and i don't think this matters) it has "/index.htm" added at the end.
     
  14. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    I know nothing of PCOM or philly.

    I can tell you Downers Grove is so safe you could plaster dollar bills on you and have no problems. Its so safe its boring.

    The CCOM campus itself is in/near a forest preserve on one side, and a million dollar home suburb on the other. Very nice physical surrounds.

    And if you want danger you can always drive a few miles to chicago.
     
  15. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Member

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    Hello colleagues, I received an acceptance letter from ccom and other D.O. schools and I am very excited about my new profession. I interviewed with pcom last week. I really liked ccom and pcom and if accepted to pcom I will be facing a serious decision. Which school? I live in Maryland. I would appreciate it if ccom and pcom students can describe their experience.
     
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  17. Smile

    Smile Senior Member

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    Hello,

    I too was faced with the same choice last year between CCOM and PCOM. I ultimately chose PCOM (primarily because of location--proximity to my home) and am so glad I did. We just finished our first term and my first 3 months there have been just awesome. The workload is definitely crazy but that is to be expected anywhere. From the students to the faculty to the administration, the prevailing atmosphere is one of professionalism and helping one another. If you have any specific questions don't hesitate to ask. I couldn't see myself happier anywhere else.
     
  18. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Member

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    Smile,
    What other factors did you weigh in? Is the closure of City Avenue hospital a big deal?
    What about clinical exposure? Where do you eventualy rotate? I appreciate your help. Thanks

     
  19. glands75

    glands75 Member

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    What about the fact that nearly 50 students in your class have already taken the first year med courses in PCOM master's program and the class is RANKED? Did you know about this before you went? Do you feel that you are behind the rest of the pack every day?

    thanks,
    Glands
     
  20. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Member

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    Glands, what do you mean? The school favors some students over others? Where do you go to school? I still don't know if Pcom is better than ccom for me.

     
  21. EZEK

    EZEK Member

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    The closure of City Avenue hospital has had little effect on clinical rotations. There are some twenty three or twenty four hospitals connected with the clinical rotations. Just because some of the students in the first year have seen the material before so what? I had some of the courses at another school before I started medical school. I'm sure some students at CCOM have had some of the courses before as well. PCOM's a good school with good faculty.
     
  22. Smile

    Smile Senior Member

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    To Hippo,

    The closure of City Avenue Hospital took place before I interviewed and it was a major concern of mine when I interviewed. The school was honest and basically said the only effect it would have would be a minor inconvenience, as the students would instead have to go to downtown Philadelphia for that particular rotation when they normally would have been placed at City Ave Hospital. Speaking to upperclassmen, they have told me the exact thing. I do not forsee it being a big deal, since downtown is less than 10 min away from the PCOM campus. Also, you have to remember Philadelphia is a major medical city in the country, especially with having 5 medical schools all within 20 miles of one another. The rotations at PCOM are second to none and provide you with a breadth of exposure, all within a major city environment.

    To Glands,

    Yes, there are many students who took first-year Anatomy and Histology in the Master's Program. That doesn't necessarily mean they have any particular advantage over anyone else. For example, I was a PT before starting medical school and my knowledge of anatomy was ahead of those masters students from PCOM. Similarly, many other students took courses in undergrad which prepared them well for our first-year courses. As such, the masters students did indeed have early exposure to the first-year courses, but in my opinion they didn't necessarily have a significant advantage. They may have an edge over two or three courses but that is it. Every new student brings something which will make him/her stand out in that particular area, but I believe in the long run it all evens out.

    As for the ranking system, there will always be pros and cons. I for one like the system as it allows residency programs to see precisely where you fare against the rest of the class. If you are a good student then you will be towards the top of the list and that will always help in the residency application process.

    These are all good and legitimate questions. Feel free to ask any more. Of course my answers will be biased but there is a major reason to it, as I chose PCOM over several other schools I was accepted at. I am very happy at PCOM and not one day do I regret coming here.

     
  23. wiglif

    wiglif Junior Member

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    First, as a second year, I am still happy I chose PCOM. There is nothing like being in Philadelphia for medicine. Geez. There is so much available at your disposal.

    Unless you are planning to go into OMT specifically, I would say CHOOSE PCOM!!! The reason I say not for OMT is that there isn't a heck of a lot of weight placed in the department. I wish there was more!

    Good luck!

    ------------------
    -mz
     
  24. SAK

    SAK Junior Member

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    Okay,
    Here is a little CCOM input. I just finished the first term of my second year, and I must say that I am very happy with the medical education. I'm not from the area, so I really do enjoy having access to a large city; although, I rarely am able to take advantage.

    Like PCOM, the curriculum is very demanding. I feel that I am receiving a good education in OMM, despite the difficulty in balancing OMM skills with basic science studies.

    One aspect that really attracted me to CCOM was the amount of high-quality medicine, and high-power medical research within the city of Chicago. Chicago offers many great opportunities for rotations and research experience. Being interested in EM, these resources played large roles in my decision to attend CCOM. Hope this helps.
     
  25. rhillstr

    rhillstr Senior Member

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    I have just finished first term of my first year at CCOM and I have to say that I am very pleased with the quality of education here. We too benefit from being in a major medical city boasting 6 schools and too many large hospitals to count. The quality of rotations here are legendary and the willingness of Chicago area doctors to work with you is unbelievable. They love to train students. Both cities and schools sound comparable and I'd say you can't go wrong with either one.
     
  26. spunkydoc

    spunkydoc Senior Member

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    maybe a bit of advice from an older member of the board--

    i am actually a philly native but ended up at ccom and am in many ways glad it happened that way--despite all of my ccom bashing..

    ccom and pcom are similar in that they are each well established first generation DO schools that are located in major metros.

    when it came down to me making the decision, the following clinched it for me--and by the way, i started the master's and dropped out b/c it was really just a money grubbing scheme.

    1. pcom's class size is upwards of 200, something like 250 when i was applying--too big if you ask me..ccom is 150, which is still kinda big at times but allows for more personal attention..i came from a large college so i did not think this would matter much, but it does..medicine is partially about making connections.

    2. pcom clinical rotations cannot rival those of chicago..in chicago, DOS are well integrated and easily accepted into rush, loyola, UofC, UIC, etc..there are plenty of urban rotation sites to choose from..pcom has some urban sites, but after the allegheny take over, these have become few and far between..you are more likely to be farmed out to erie, pittsburgh, lancaster, bethlehem, etc..the hospitals are great experiences, but not as diverse as you will find in chicago..this was the biggest selling point for me to go to chicago--the clinical opportunity is unmatched as long as you are agressive enough to stay out of olympia fields.

    3. the academics at chicago are consistently higher across the board..although i felt like at ccom they killed us with exams and that the environment was not as nurturing, we were prepared for the mishmosh they called the COMLEX and bred to work harder than most.

    4. there is little emphasis on OMT at CCOM despite what they would like you to believe..CCOM is more allopathic than any of the DO schools with which i have come in contact in that it has nationally and federally funded research that is published in places other than osteopathic journals..furthermore, if you are into the OMT, CCOM is the leader in OM research and has published landmark articles in that area.

    5. the worst thing about CCOM is that the administration is totally unresponsive to students and financially the university is having problems with all sorts of things..HOWEVER it is key to keep in mind that PCOM is experiencing similar difficulties or it would not be selling off city line..as i recall, the administration at PCOM listened to the student and did its own thing anyway--unless things have changed majorly.

    best to ask students higher than first yr at both schools..they are a bit green and infatuated with the idea of being in med school and have not yet expereienced too many of the ills of either school.

    if i had to do it all again i would do ccom again despite the fact that i will not donate a penny as an alumni.

    even better, if you have the chance to go md, consider it carefully

    good luck
     
  27. Smile

    Smile Senior Member

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    Very valid points. But I am not going to start a debate on which school is better or whose dad is stronger or things of the like. Just a couple of points of clarification on the above post. First, you are NOT "likely to be farmed" way outside of metro Philadelphia for rotations unless you specifically arrange them on your own. PCOM has very strong connections with city and surrounding hospitals to accomodate its students for rotations. Second, PCOM sold off (and hence, hasn't owned) City Avenue Hospital several years ago so this most recent closing had no connection with the school whatsoever, rather the usual money problems associated with running hospitals nowadays. And, as I mentioned previously, the only effect this has had on the students is the "inconvenience" of driving 10 minutes to center city Philadelphia for that particular rotation.

    Again, I am not trying to start some war here, just trying to clarify some inaccurate statements about PCOM. I may only be a first-year and am surely "green" in many respects, but I would like to think I am well-educated and knowledgable about the school I am attending. I researched CCOM and PCOM rather extensively and had location not been an issue, my decision between the two would have been much tougher.
     
  28. Akron Ohio

    Akron Ohio Member

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    I interviewed at CCOM and overall I was very impressed. It's a great school and in all of the schools I have been accepted to so far it would rank #2. The curriculum is strong and the atmosphere is very relaxing. My number one is KCOM, and that is where I sent my deposit. This school was by far the best school of them all. I decided to decline my interview at PCOM because many people I meet who attend there say that it is really in an unsafe area, being in the city and all. I have heard that it is a good school also but many students have had problems with crime.
     
  29. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Member

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    To "Akron,Ohio", thanks for the reply. By any chance are you Mark Duber? If so I interviewed with you at CCOM. If you are, what's up man! I am Samir.

     
  30. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Member

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    By the everyone, I just got accepted to PCOM today. I don't know where I am going to go. Does anyone have any good factors to think about that I forgot? Thanks.
     
  31. Akron Ohio

    Akron Ohio Member

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    Samir, Yes it is me. Where are you going to go. Are you going to take the interview at KCOM?? Did you like PCOM??? Tell me whats going on... How is your stereo coming along [​IMG] Missy says hi...

    Mark
     
  32. ebola95

    ebola95 Senior Member

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    ok, to whomever said that there is no emphasis on OMT at CCOM.....how the hell would you know? There is a lot of OMM here...not to mention that Dr. Kappler (maybe you have haerd of him, he is one of the LEADING experts in manipulative medicine!) teaches here (not to mention does a lot of one-on-one time with the interested students).....

    i chose CCOM because of the location and the dedication to OMM

    so there it is...for anyone who is interested in learning more about the best school out there and really wants to know all about it from teh inside out...jsut drop me a line.

    John
     
  33. seth2000

    seth2000 Junior Member

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    Hi guys,
    I was wondering if any students at the osteopathic medical colleges could give me their opinions about: the schools with strong four year curriculums in one city (ccom, pcom, etc.) vs. the schools with split programs (kcom, uhs, etc.). I am interested in the quality of the education at schools that employ these different educational programs. I would appreciate the opinions of students who actually attend these schools---no bashing of other schools please. I would like for an educated and informed debate. Also--I want to attend a school where the students are close knit and become good friends; It seems to me that osteopathic students become more close knit than allopathic students---feel free to tell me if that is wrong. I want to know how the split osteopathic programs differ from the one-city osteopathic students regarding the closeness of the students. I know this posting is long---thanks for your patience and try to keep this forum focussed on these issues; split vs. one-city osteopathic programs---and closeness of the students in these two types. Thanks.
    -seth
     
  34. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator

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    WELCOME TO SDN!!!

    Can you clarify what you mean about "split programs"? I never heard this terminology about a school's program before....

    Thanx in advance....
     
  35. seth2000

    seth2000 Junior Member

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    Sorry about the confusion...
    what i mean by split programs is the distance learning programs that kcom and uhs have for their clinical rotations. If you go to these schools, you will end up spending your third and fourth years in some other city or possibly some other state. Thanks.
     
  36. rellik

    rellik Member

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    I will be atending UHS in the fall, thus I don't currently attend and don't have a complete understanding of how this work for the 3rd and 4th year. However, I have learned about some of the questions you posed prior to accepting the seat.

    Because UHS draws a great deal of its students from States other than MO, it is my understanding that it offers clinical sites in many States that may be in the student's home State or at least closer to home. Clinical sites are also in the Kansas City area as well for those that choose to stay in KC or just don't wish to move. It is also my understanding that the way they determine where you do your clinicals is through a sort of "match system". Students put together a list of top 3 areas where they would like to spend their 3rd and 4th year. After which, the school tries to match students to their needs. For example, I was told that their rarely has been a time when a student wanted to stay in KC and didn't get to. This is good news to me as I have a wife and child as well as plan to purchase a home and would like to keep home as stable as possible throughout the four years. I understand that they take all these factors into account as they put together the "match". On the other hand, students who want to go to other States such as CA or OH (where UHS has a large number of Alums, thus more sites for rotations)is is easier to move there.

    This is all stuff i tried to "sus" out before I accepted the offer, but I am still just going by what I was told. If anyone knows better, pleeeeeeaaasseee let me know!!!!!!

    just my $.02
     
  37. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    As a UHS student, the 3rd and 4th year rotations are actually quite a hassle. Your "core" rotation site as a third year is a single city which may include 2-3 hospitals...I am currently in St. Louis.
    Unfortunately, it is my belief that the school accepts too many students compared to the quality third year sites it has available.
    And, unlike MD programs, it is extremely difficult to assure quality of education from site to site. (ie as Mizzou there are only a couple of sites total, vs 20-30 at UHS...making it hard to assure a quality experience).
    If you need me to elaborate, you can email me.
    I unfortunately, need to go.
     
  38. seth2000

    seth2000 Junior Member

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    Any osteopathic students, please comment on your experiences at your osteopathic med school. Comment on the closeness of the students ---quality of education--quality of clinical rotations--etc. Thanks in advance.
    -seth
     
  39. seth2000

    seth2000 Junior Member

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    hey, just wanted to get this to the top of the list so people would notice it again. I would really value current osteopathic students' opinions.
    -Satya
     
  40. sperl2

    sperl2 Junior Member

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    I just finished my first year at PCOM, I can't speak for the other schools but I have really enjoyed my first year. I have made great friends and everyone is friendly and always willing to help. As for 3rd and 4th year we have rotation in Phily, but you can also get them elsewhere if you would like. The area is nice and the SIXERS practice and train here need I say more. Good luck with your decision.
     
  41. algernon

    algernon Member

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    Seth...

    Since I have yet to actually begin school, I cannot consider myself an expert. But here goes. Osteopathic students at all D.O. schools can choose to do their clinical rotations at ANY site which is AOA approved. In other words, even if I am in Chicago, I can do a clerkship in Texas if the site is approved. BTW, CCOM is not actually IN Chicago. It is in Downers Grove, a suburb about 15 miles outside of the city. But I think I know what you mean. I also applied and was accepted to Nova Southeastern in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Even though this school is close to Miami, most of the clinical sites were in North Buttcrack, FL (a significant distance away).

    Now, I'm not sure how most allopathic schools work, but I DO know that the "split program" thing was actually a selling point when I visited various osteopathic schools. When I went to interview, they would often say things like "Well at OUR osteopathic school, you get to do your rotations at lots of different locations, whereas at allopathic schools, your rotations will essentially be moving to a different floor of the same huge hospital". I honestly don't know how true this is or if it even really matters, but thats what they say.

    Thats my 2 cents, for what its worth.
     
  42. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    Algernon,

    Let me help you out with this. As a third year, you can only do rotations at hospitals that your school has an affiliation with. Example, Kirksville has a core site in st. louis with Des Peres and Forest Park Hospitals. Therefore, they have designated students there all year. That is an affiliate site.
    Not ALL AOA sites may be affiliated with Kirksville, UHS, CCOM etc for their third year...only certain sites.
    The fourth year is often "up in the air" and students perform externships at various hospitals, regardless of affiliation. But that externship must be "ok'd" by both the hospital and the institution.
    Allopathic schools are generally are more centralized in their education, keeping most of their students close at home...whether that be at the university hospital, VA, affiliated clinics, or city/community hospital. Most are near by...and at the very least, not out of the state.

    Hope it helps
     
  43. seth2000

    seth2000 Junior Member

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    just getting this back on top again--i hope people will take the time to share their experiences some more. And for all those that already replied--thank you very much.
    -Seth
     
  44. mompremed

    mompremed Senior Member

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    Hi all,

    Something that I think would help premeds in their quests in deciding which schools to apply to (expensive!) and ultimately go to (even more expensive!) is the AMSA Med School Survey. DO students are especially sadly lacking in the # of students responding. I'm sure the premeds in these forums would greatly appreciate it if all you med students out there would take 5 minutes of your time and hop over to fill out the survey. It has the potential to give a realistic feel to what each med school is like - unlike the MSAR which is just what the schools want you to know and can be found on any med school web site! And it might cut down a little on the "which school is a best fit for me" types of questions. ;)

    So hop over to:

    Medical School Survey

    Thanks!

    Mompremed
     
  45. tigerlily

    tigerlily Member

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    any positive or negative information relating to these 2 schools would be greatly appreciated!!! i loved both schools, but for different reasons, so i am looking for help to decide between them within the next few weeks. i almost wish i had been rejected from one.

    i am originally from philly, pa,,,and love it here, but am afraid i'll never leave if i don't go now. my boyfriend (future husband) will be staying or moving with me,,,but is pressuring me to make the decision. we may end up flying out to chicago for a weekend, but it'll cost about $800+ which is A LOT for us to spend unless we really think we want to move out there. neither of us have ever been there (except me for a few days while interviewing,,,and i really enjoyed it)!!!

    please help.

    thanks,
    ~CONFUSED~ :confused: :p
     
  46. jennij

    jennij Member

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  47. Dagny

    Dagny PGY-1

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    Ask me any questions you have about CCOM, and I'll try to answer between finals! Congratulations!
     
  48. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned
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