cGPA 4.0, MCAT 518, help with school list please

[endocrinenerd]

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[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats and EC's.
U Washington
U Colorado
Vermont
Tufts
Quinnipiac
Rochester
Hofstra
New York Medical College
Einstein
Seton Hall
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Miami
Wake Forest
Cincinnati
Oakland Beaumont
Medical College Wisconsin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
NOVA MD
California University (new school)

 

[Dr. Snow]

A 4.0 and 518 MCAT have the potential to get you in anywhere. I don't know why more top schools weren't listed by Faha. If you can add some shadowing hours and boost your ECs in the next couple of months you could potentially apply anywhere you want. I would apply to somewhere around 10 stop 20 schools, 10 "mid-tier" schools, and 5 "safety" schools if I had your stats.

 

[LavarBall]

A 4.0 and 518 MCAT have the potential to get you in anywhere. I don't know why more top schools weren't listed by Faha. If you can add some shadowing hours and boost your ECs in the next couple of months you could potentially apply anywhere you want. I would apply to somewhere around 10 stop 20 schools, 10 "mid-tier" schools, and 5 "safety" schools if I had your stats.

EC's don't really cut it for elite schools. I'm thinking if he gets a huge amount of clinical volunteering he may be competitive for those schools.

 

[Dr. Snow]

EC's don't really cut it for elite schools. I'm thinking if he gets a huge amount of clinical volunteering he may be competitive for those schools.

Yea I agree. If the ECs that are listed are truly all the OP has, then top schools will be difficult. But if OP is leaving out ECs or can put together an application with 10-15 meaningful activities, they should have a decent shot at upper schools. A good personal statement and interview would also be needed with weak ECs.

If OP doesn't care about getting into top programs, then they should apply to mid/lower tier schools this cycle. But if OP took a gap year and boost their ECs, they could potentially get in just about anywhere.

 

[LavarBall]

If you have zero shadowing, you definitely need some, but not much. 30 hours should suffice. Many schools don't view scribing as equivalent to what you would get out of a shadowing experience. Also make sure it's in primary care.

Also, I think you definitely need some clinical volunteering. Ideally more than 100 hours. You need to show that interacting with patients is something you genuinely enjoy doing even when you are not paid to do so. Why would you have to delay your app to get clinical volunteering? You are still 3 months away from when submitting a primary is considered late and even after that I would volunteer throughout the application cycle and write about your volunteering on secondaries and submit updates to schools.

 

[878956]

I would add 6-7 top 20's to the list Faha presented you with.

 

[precisiongraphic]

I would add 6-7 top 20's to the list Faha presented you with.

I agree with this. Perhaps you should look at the WARS applicant rating system developed by @WedgeDawg to add some higher tiers and some ultra-reaches. Plus use the MSAR and school websites to see where you meet the mission. I rarely disagree with Faha but I think with many of those low-yield schools that get lots of applicants might screen you out with a 4.0 ... but I could be wrong. I don't know if WICHE would help as most of those schools don't have med schools but I think Arizona and Oregon might be worth an app. UNM and UNLV take very few OOS but UNReno might.

Edited to add: just saw that UNLV is taking some OOS so check it out.

 

[precisiongraphic]

Oh, and while I think that scribing is much better than shadowing, I don't think that you should submit an app with Zero shadow hours. I think you're fine for volunteering.

Ask the docs that you scribe for to help you get set up with one or two of their friends to shadow and get 30-40 hours in before June. Surely you can fit some in even if you have to turn down overtime. Don't delay your application a year but you could wait to submit until July. If you scribe in an ER, get a FM or IM doc. If you are in clinic, get an ER shadow experience. If you're already cleared to work in a specific hospital or clinic, getting to shadow there should be easy as you've already cleared the HIPAA and immunization hurdles.

 

[candbgirl]

Do you have any nonclinical hours? You know activities that show your altruistic side-service to the unserved and underserved. You need that and without it take SLU and Creighton off your list. They are Jesuit schools and love service. In fact most med schools like to see service to others less fortunate than yourself.

 

[LavarBall]

Why do schools view scribing as less valuable than shadowing? It is more valuable for me personally. They are basically the same in regards to viewing health care, but with scribing I become a lot more involved in the medical decision making process, one of the reasons I have focused so heavily on it.

I suppose I would not need to delay my app all that much, but more than I would like. To get over 100 hours clinical volunteer time, while maintaining a full time job, would take probably close to 1 month, which I won't be able to do until June as I work overtime this month and in May. I will definitely have more opportunities this summer and fall, but I would prefer to have as much of my application and ECs ready by the time I submit. I would prefer to submit earlier rather than later.

Is having a lack of clinical volunteer time a serious detriment to my application?

I didn’t say scribing is less valuable. You just don’t necessarily get the same experience that you would get out of shadowing in the eyes of many adcoms. In my opinion scribing is far more valuable since you are actively participating but shadowing is still essential to your application.

And yes no clinical volunteering might be the biggest detriment one can have in their application.

 

[LavarBall]

Another thing that is really important: I am an URM as I am considered Hispanic (raised by single Hispanic mother). With this, my WARS goes to 87, which is S tier. I understand that this system is more for guidance than absolute rule of thumb. How much should I delay my application to obtain clinical volunteer time, if I am able to between May and June?

This changes everything. You are definitely competitive for the elite schools. Get some solid clinical volunteering hours and I think you’re competitive for top 10s possibly. I would ask @Faha to regenerate their list with this in mind

 

[freedoctor17]

I don't think you need clinical volunteering if you've scribed for over 800 hours. It's not like you have no volunteering you have plenty of non clinical volunteering. I personally will only have 150 hours of clinical volunteering by application time (with another 75 projected for the next year) and about 60 hours of shadowing. That's all I have clinical. I do have about 500 hours with a non clinical underserved population and another 700+ with a religious organization (after school program) though and personally I believe that shows enough without me needing to cram in specifically clinical hours. I'm on my second clinical volunteer position now and I have to say I feel like they have to actively look for something for me to do half the time. The good thing is that I'm definitely much more comfortable speaking with patients now and that there have been several great experiences where I really enjoyed my time. Just a lot of the time it feels like I'm sitting around with nothing to do. I'd say if you've interacted with patients as a scribe that is good enough. If all you did was watch and record (I've never scribed so not sure exactly what you do) then you may want a little direct interaction. Overall though your probably fine especially as a URM raised by a single mother.

 

[precisiongraphic]

This changes everything. You are definitely competitive for the elite schools. Get some solid clinical volunteering hours and I think you’re competitive for top 10s possibly. I would ask @Faha to regenerate their list with this in mind

I agree but only if you speak Spanish. It's been endlessly debated on SDN but just Hispanic isn't URM. Mexican is, PR is - others...maybe. But speaking Spanish is key. Do you speak Spanish?

 

[Faha]

Since you are URM you can also add some top 20 schools to your list if they appeal to you.

 

[LavarBall]

I don't think you need clinical volunteering if you've scribed for over 800 hours.

I don’t agree with this advice, especially since you haven’t yet been through an application cycle yourself. While I think large amounts of clinical volunteering (I’m talking 1000+ hours) can make up for a lack of non clinical volunteering, I do not believe the reverse is true. He currently has zero, which I don’t think looks good. Maybe @Goro can tell us what he thinks

 

[Goro]

I don’t agree with this advice, especially since you haven’t yet been through an application cycle yourself. While I think large amounts of clinical volunteering (I’m talking 1000+ hours) can make up for a lack of non clinical volunteering, I do not believe the reverse is true. He currently has zero, which I don’t think looks good. Maybe @Goro can tell us what he thinks

I agree with freedoctor. The key thing about us wanting you to have clinical experience is that it doesn't' have to be volunteering. Paid experience is just as good. Having any employment history is good as well, so to get clinical experience and get paid for it is, well, a win-won for a candidate.

In addition, of the > 100 or so SDNers who have shared with me what their "hook' was for getting into med school, scribing was their clinical EC for a number of them.

 

[Goro]

Hey all,
I was hoping I could get help on a school list for MD application.
I am currently in a gap year hoping to apply this cycle; I have not applied before. I am a Wyoming resident.
Cumulative GPA 4.0, MCAT 518

I personally think my EC's are mediocre:

Research:
- 500 hours in parasitology, pending coauthor publication
- >1000 hours bio-material generation

Volunteer:
- 300 hours non clinical volunteer time

Clinical:
- ~800 hours as a medical scribe in the emergency department (and growing).

I have no other shadowing experience or clinical volunteer experience. My personal statement is in decent shape. I have strong letters of rec from science professors and research mentors.

I was hoping I could get some help with a school list. I plan on applying to most WICHE schools, because Wyoming is a participant. I was also thinking of WWAMI as a back up option. I am a leaning more towards research oriented schools, but I am a little clueless as to my chances at the higher tier school given my lackluster ECs. I have decided against MD-PhD programs. I may have some time coming up to add in more ECs (hopefully more volunteer time), although its a tad late for this cycle. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated!

I think that you can aim a bit higher than where the wise Faha suggests.

I suggest:
U WA
U UT
U CO
Yale
WashU
Vanderbilt
NYU
U Chicago
U Penn
Northwestern
JHU
Harvard
Stanford
Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
Duke
U VA
U MI
UCSF
BU
Case
USC/Keck
Mayo
U Cincy
Pitt
USF Morsani
Ohio State
Hofstra
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Rochester
Dartmouth
Miami
Western MI
Jefferson
U VM

 

[LavarBall]

Fair enough. I had both so I guess it’s hard to pinpoint which was responsible for success. I was just rarely asked about scribing and much more frequently asked about my clinical volunteering which led to my incorrect assumption

 

[freedoctor17]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
And thank you @Goro for the list.

I will be getting more volunteer time later this summer, fall and winter, but nothing significant before I hope to apply. As I explained earlier, I am hesitant to pick up clinical volunteer time in fear of experiencing something similar to @freedoctor17, where my patient exposure would be limited and potentially shallow. I have plenty I could do non-clinical or non-volunteer instead, rather than struggling to find something to do in a "clinical-volunteer" experience. I have heard and read others have similar experiences to @freedoctor17. (Not saying all clinical volunteer experiences are like this, just opportunities to which I have access have this reputation).

If I am able to drop some of my scribe shifts these next couple months, I will be able to get ~30-40 hours of shadow time before I apply. If this will help my application, then I will definitely try.



I am considered Hispanic by the state of Wyoming. I am not fluent in Spanish. I communicate at an intermediate level. This is the reason that I did not place this information in my OP, as I am uncertain how this is evaluated by adcoms.

In regards to my volunteer time: it is primarily serving people living with degenerative diseases; I have strived more for service type volunteer experience.

I mean I definitely still gained some insight during my volunteering but out of the 100+ hours so far I can probably only honestly say that like 40 to 50 felt like I was doing something useful. I didn't mean to discourage you from doing it, but just saying your current experience is probably already good enough if not better.

I had a friend who did hospice and said it was well worth it, although emotionally exhausting, but unfortunately in my area it required having a car and driving 30 to 40 minutes off campus.

 

[Jamisan]

One of the things I've read multiple times from admissions committees is not to do things just because you think it's what they want to see. Do what interests you and what you're going to be excited about having on your app. That being said, I think the fact that more than 90% of matriculating med students have shadowing experience is saying something. So I would definitely recommend shadowing but you can shadow in an area that you are interested in not necessarily just primary care (unless that's what interests you). But I wouldn't suggest shadowing in the ED since that's where you've been working. Honestly you probably aren't going to learn all that much from your shadowing experience compared to being a scribe. I'm a phlebotomist and what I learned shadowing a trauma surgeon is negligible compared to what I have learned as a phlebotomist. But I had a ton of fun doing it and will be able to talk about it enthusiastically if asked at an interview or something and that's reason enough to do it.

I really don't think clinical volunteering is going to benefit you any more than continuing the volunteering you have because what schools seem to be looking for is that you understand what its like to work in the medical field and still want to do it. Again this goes back to not doing things just to have more stuff to list or just because you think it's what they want to see.

 

[precisiongraphic]

I tried out that WARS, and you are correct, shadow experience does greatly increase my competitiveness (if I were to get the standard 40 hours, I jump from 69 to 80).

Another thing that is really important: I am an URM as I am considered Hispanic (raised by single Hispanic mother). With this, my WARS goes to 87, which is S tier. I understand that this system is more for guidance than absolute rule of thumb. How much should I delay my application to obtain clinical volunteer time, if I am able to between May and June?

I wouldn't delay past June or mid-July just to shadow. But work your connections and try to get a non-ER shadow. Are there specialists that consult in your ER? Write down some names and contact them.

I think your clinical experience is great, volunteering acceptable (any rush to add some now would have negligible effect), ECs and research all ready for an application this year. With a Hispanic and single mom and intermediate Spanish fluency, I think that adds an additional positive angle.

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
And thank you @Goro for the list.

I will be getting more volunteer time later this summer, fall and winter, but nothing significant before I hope to apply. As I explained earlier, I am hesitant to pick up clinical volunteer time in fear of experiencing something similar to @freedoctor17, where my patient exposure would be limited and potentially shallow. I have plenty I could do non-clinical or non-volunteer instead, rather than struggling to find something to do in a "clinical-volunteer" experience. I have heard and read others have similar experiences to @freedoctor17. (Not saying all clinical volunteer experiences are like this, just opportunities to which I have access have this reputation).

If I am able to drop some of my scribe shifts these next couple months, I will be able to get ~30-40 hours of shadow time before I apply. If this will help my application, then I will definitely try.



I am considered Hispanic by the state of Wyoming. I am not fluent in Spanish. I communicate at an intermediate level. This is the reason that I did not place this information in my OP, as I am uncertain how this is evaluated by adcoms.

In regards to my volunteer time: it is primarily serving people living with degenerative diseases; I have strived more for service type volunteer experience.

One of my friends (med student at Mayo Clinic in MN) was also a scribe and still got in here with no clinical volunteering. Like yourself she did a ton of research and also had non-clinical volunteering. I know this is just one example, but I don't think you need clinical volunteering given your clinical experience as a scribe and the fact that you do still have volunteering hours.

Goro's list for you is solid - I'd go with that.