cGPA vs sGPA vs MCAT

[orangeman25]

I did a quick search on this topic but haven't been able to find an answer.

How would you say these 3 rank in comparison to each other in the eyes of a medical school admissions committee? I know that all 3 are very important, but does anyone know if one is slightly more important, one is least important, etc.

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[alpinism]

For MD: MCAT>GPA, while for DO: GPA>MCAT

As an example, many people get into solid MD schools every year w/ a low GPA (3.3) but a high MCAT (35).

On the other hand, you'll have a very tough time getting accepted anywhere w/ a high GPA (4.0) but a low MCAT (28).

Keep in mind though that the people who get in with lower GPAs often come from more prestigious schools or schools known for grade deflation.

 

[Catalystik]

cGPA vs sGPA vs MCAT
How would you say these 3 rank in comparison to each other in the eyes of a medical school admissions committee? I know that all 3 are very important, but does anyone know if one is slightly more important, one is least important, etc.

Every school has their own formula for comparing applicants. Some give variable weights to the grades from different years. Some average multiple MCAT scores and others take the highest or the most recent. Some have adcomms whose personal opinion will sway them regardless of school policy. No one answer will be true for every admissions committee.

 

[Dr.Forssmann]

Do medical schools look at your sGPA more heavily than your cGPA?

 

[Goro]

It seems to be school specific.

I base my advice on MSAR and look at the numbers for acceptees at each school. In many schools sGPA lags behind cGPA by 0.1, and has a lower floor than the latter.

At my school, the Dean likes high MCAT scores.

I did a quick search on this topic but haven't been able to find an answer.

How would you say these 3 rank in comparison to each other in the eyes of a medical school admissions committee? I know that all 3 are very important, but does anyone know if one is slightly more important, one is least important, etc.

 

[phunky]

It seems like the general consensus is MCAT > GPA. MCAT is the great equalizer. GPA is subject to any number of biases.

 

[jeghaber]

While this sticky from the WAMC only addresses GPA vs MCAT I think it's still worth a quick look:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/

 

[rudziutki]

I think MCAT... GPA is too subjective depending on college, major, professors, EC's outside of school, etc.

 

[kyamh]

MCAT, schools want good ratings and one of those is how well their students do on the standardized exams. MCATs tend to correlate with board performance.

 

[Dr.Forssmann]

I think MCAT... GPA is too subjective depending on college, major, professors, EC's outside of school, etc.

Mcat is just a snapshot of your abilities though and should be considered as such. somedays i scored a 35 somedays i got a 27...

 

[Redpancreas]

I did a quick search on this topic but haven't been able to find an answer.

How would you say these 3 rank in comparison to each other in the eyes of a medical school admissions committee? I know that all 3 are very important, but does anyone know if one is slightly more important, one is least important, etc.

Okay, as you know, there's no answer so to speak because the data is analyzed subjectively by number of different schools. With that being said, I think there are certain rules of thumb one can go by.


1. The sGPA is generally more important than the cGPA.

This is because schools want to see how well you've mastered your pre-requisites.


2. There are two general conditions in which the MCAT score is most critical in my opinion:

a.) One comes from less rigorous programs (this may seem like a curse word on SDN but I know for a fact (heard from the mouths of those on admission committees) that many schools keep records on students they have had with a certain GPA and the ones they've admitted, and how they've done... through this data, they estimate which programs are easier and harder than others...they even keep tabs on classes, I mean, wouldn't you?)

b.) One's GPA is below a 3.8. If the GPA is one the average-decent end, then the MCAT will obviously be a very critical factor as I, according to the statistics published on white caucasians* there was a ~20% jump in percentage admitted if one increased their MCAT 27-29 to 30-32 only in both the 3.4-3.79 categories (obviously, the lower you are in that range, the higher compensatory effect the MCAT has)


3. The sGPA is more important than the MCAT if it is below a 3.5 range. As you can see by the data, but more importantly (in my opinion) what a 3.5 signifies (an A-B average), if one is scoring less than that GPA, that will be a critical negative factor that may outweigh a great MCAT score.

For example, I would rather have a 3.6 and 34 and than a 3.4 and 36 even those both LizzyMs are the same.

4. This is implied by 2b, but if your GPA exceeds 3.8, then it will carry a lesser value by 0.01 pt increase relative to an increase if the GPA is lower (ex. 3.5).


5. This is definitely controversial but since I'm going all out here, I think it's better to have a superior MCAT than a superior GPA and similarly it is better to have an above average MCAT than an above average GPA.

For example, I would rather have a 3.5 and 34 than a 4.0 and 29.


So overall,

If you insist on the format you've put in the question, I would say it goes:

sGPA>MCAT>>cGPA




*I use the caucasian date as a reference point because I feel that it is the "middle ground". I didn't bother looking into the others but it is likely they follow the same trend.

 

[BurberryDoc]

MCAT, schools want good ratings and one of those is how well their students do on the standardized exams. MCATs tend to correlate with board performance.

As I understand it, retrospective correlation studies indicate this is true more so for the biology section of the MCAT than for any other.

 

[kyamh]

As I understand it, retrospective correlation studies indicate this is true more so for the biology section of the MCAT than for any other.

Alright, sounds plausible....but people who get 35+ on the MCAT are no slouches in Biology and there aren't that many applicant out there with a 28 and 12+ in Biology

 

[BurberryDoc]

Alright, sounds plausible....but people who get 35+ on the MCAT are no slouches in Biology and there aren't that many applicant out there with a 28 and 12+ in Biology

This may be more anecdotal, but i know someone who got a 39....with a 9 on biology. I know someone with a 35 that only had a 10 in biology. That MCAT....one tricky beast.

 

[487806]

I did a quick search on this topic but haven't been able to find an answer.

How would you say these 3 rank in comparison to each other in the eyes of a medical school admissions committee? I know that all 3 are very important, but does anyone know if one is slightly more important, one is least important, etc.

MCAT wins hands down. Grades are too subjective for numerous reasons (I mentioned this in another thread). High GPA + low MCAT means the GPA is a fluke (or easy college, grade inflation etc.). Low GPA + high MCAT means a difficult college, grade deflation, laziness/adjusting problems etc. Clearly, MCAT wins.

Example: Someone with a 3.4/40+ MCAT will likely get into a top 20 med school.
Someone with a 4.0/27 MCAT will be denied by any MD school.

 

[pink/\floyd]

MCAT wins hands down. Grades are too subjective for numerous reasons (I mentioned this in another thread). High GPA + low MCAT means the GPA is a fluke (or easy college, grade inflation etc.). Low GPA + high MCAT means a difficult college, grade deflation, laziness/adjusting problems etc. Clearly, MCAT wins.

Example: Someone with a 3.4/40+ MCAT will likely get into a top 20 med school.
Someone with a 4.0/27 MCAT will be denied by any MD school.

You should see the 27-29 mcat thread.

 

[487806]

You should see the 27-29 mcat thread.

Yeah those are the exceptions.

 

[solitarius]

Life would be much easier if we all agree they are all important.

But... reality is that people value the tougher feat more. It is tougher to get a 40+ MCAT than a 4.0 at your typical college. It is tougher to get a 4.0 at [notoriously grade-deflated super-prestigious school] than a typical school. It is tougher to get a 4.0 sGPA than a 4.0 cGPA.

 

[sourdoughllama]

MCAT wins hands down. Grades are too subjective for numerous reasons (I mentioned this in another thread). High GPA + low MCAT means the GPA is a fluke (or easy college, grade inflation etc.). Low GPA + high MCAT means a difficult college, grade deflation, laziness/adjusting problems etc. Clearly, MCAT wins.

Disagree on the high GPA, low MCAT. A bad test day perhaps?? Not everyone retakes after a bad test day because not everyone is as gung ho about med school as SDN

 

[487806]

Disagree on the high GPA, low MCAT. A bad test day perhaps?? Not everyone retakes after a bad test day because not everyone is as gung ho about med school as SDN

Sure it could be a bad test day, computers have a problem (this one really REALLY sucks), sick, unprepared w/e. But do adcoms care about why an applicant got a low score? Not really. If the applicant retakes and gets a higher score the second time around, then maybe. Low-tier state schools may give these applicants a slack though, but mid-tier/top-tier schools really don't care.

Again, this is strictly MD discussion. I really don't know how DO schools operate.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Sure it could be a bad test day, computers have a problem (this one really REALLY sucks), sick, unprepared w/e. But do adcoms care about why an applicant got a low score? Not really. If the applicant retakes and gets a higher score the second time around, then maybe. Low-tier state schools may give these applicants a slack though, but mid-tier/top-tier schools really don't care.

Again, this is strictly MD discussion. I really don't know how DO schools operate.

Oh I agree with you that it doesn't matter why or how they got the low MCAT. I'm just saying the reasons could be much less simple than just a fluke. That's discrediting all their hard work for getting a high GPA. I doubt any two schools are actually super significant in terms of difficulty (excluding like MIT and stuff)

 

[orangeman25]

Mcat is just a snapshot of your abilities though and should be considered as such. somedays i scored a 35 somedays i got a 27...

That's pretty interesting. 8 point discrepancy is alarming. If this discrepancy is from AAMC tests after you have done all content review, you have a fair point. But score differentials like this using other test companies I think can happen.

 

[Schenker]

I suspect that here at SDN we overvalue and admire 39+ MCAT scores more than we do 3.9+ GPAs and that that leads to a lot of speculation.

As an example, many people get into solid MD schools every year w/ a low GPA (3.3) but a high MCAT (35).

On the other hand, you'll have a very tough time getting accepted anywhere w/ a high GPA (4.0) but a low MCAT (28).

Data show the opposite, that it's easier to get in somewhere with a 4.0/28 (65.1% acceptance rate) than with a 3.3/35 (49.7%).

It's difficult to answer a question like "rank cGPA vs. sGPA vs MCAT" since all three correlate for most applicants. Sure, there are applicants whose numbers don't match, but it's my opinion that whether an adcom is willing to forgive a low cGPA (or one of the other two) is entirely variable on med school, adcom, and each applicant's particulars. Ultimately, any answer to the "rank cGPA vs. sGPA vs MCAT" question would hold little prescriptive value (If MCAT were more important, how would you, and would anyone, willingly sacrifice 0.7 GPA points to score 7 points higher on the MCAT?), so why bother asking it?

I mean no offense to OP or anyone interested in debating the topic (debating the seemingly obscure application process can be fun). I used to obsess over finding an answer to this question, but I think it's more useful to ask:

What can a low-MCAT/high-GPA applicant do to improve one's application?
What can a high-MCAT/low-GPA applicant do to improve one's application?​

I don't distinguish between s/cGPA since I think any preference would be dependent on med school. Scrolling through the MSAR, most school's median cGPAs are about 0.1 GPA points higher, reflecting the tendency for most applicants' cGPAs to be that much higher than their sGPAs, whereas a few schools have a median sGPA that's at least as high as their median cGPA; interpret that how you will. At med schools with near 4.0 medians, I suspect that cGPA would merely appear to be weighted more than sGPA since it's harder to get a 4.0 cGPA than a 4.0 sGPA, since the latter is numerically included in the former.

It is tougher to get a 4.0 sGPA than a 4.0 cGPA.

 

[487806]

I suspect that here at SDN we overvalue and admire 39+ MCAT scores more than we do 3.9+ GPAs and that that leads to a lot of speculation.



Data show the opposite, that it's easier to get in somewhere with a 4.0/28 (65.1% acceptance rate) than with a 3.3/35 (49.7%).

The data most likely include the DO schools, which value GPA way more than MCAT. MD schools value MCAT more than GPA.

 

[pink/\floyd]

The data most likely include the DO schools, which value GPA way more than MCAT. MD schools value MCAT more than GPA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that data by AAMC is only for US allopathic schools.

 

[gyngyn]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that data by AAMC is only for US allopathic schools.

You are correct.

 

[alpinism]

I suspect that here at SDN we overvalue and admire 39+ MCAT scores more than we do 3.9+ GPAs and that that leads to a lot of speculation.



Data show the opposite, that it's easier to get in somewhere with a 4.0/28 (65.1% acceptance rate) than with a 3.3/35 (49.7%).

It's difficult to answer a question like "rank cGPA vs. sGPA vs MCAT" since all three correlate for most applicants. Sure, there are applicants whose numbers don't match, but it's my opinion that whether an adcom is willing to forgive a low cGPA (or one of the other two) is entirely variable on med school, adcom, and each applicant's particulars. Ultimately, any answer to the "rank cGPA vs. sGPA vs MCAT" question would hold little prescriptive value (If MCAT were more important, how would you, and would anyone, willingly sacrifice 0.7 GPA points to score 7 points higher on the MCAT?), so why bother asking it?

I mean no offense to OP or anyone interested in debating the topic (debating the seemingly obscure application process can be fun). I used to obsess over finding an answer to this question, but I think it's more useful to ask:

What can a low-MCAT/high-GPA applicant do to improve one's application?
What can a high-MCAT/low-GPA applicant do to improve one's application?​

I don't distinguish between s/cGPA since I think any preference would be dependent on med school. Scrolling through the MSAR, most school's median cGPAs are about 0.1 GPA points higher, reflecting the tendency for most applicants' cGPAs to be that much higher than their sGPAs, whereas a few schools have a median sGPA that's at least as high as their median cGPA; interpret that how you will. At med schools with near 4.0 medians, I suspect that cGPA would merely appear to be weighted more than sGPA since it's harder to get a 4.0 cGPA than a 4.0 sGPA, since the latter is numerically included in the former.

Regarding the AAMC chart:

1. A select few low-ranking state schools with low MCAT averages are skewing the AAMC data. Places like WV, AR, MS, KS, NM, and a few others. Most applicants aren't residents of these states and don't have the luxury of applying to these programs. At private schools and schools w/ MCAT averages above 30 (i.e. the vast majority of med schools) the percentages referenced would be flipped.

2. This also applies to historically black medical schools (Meharry/Howard/Morehouse) with low MCAT averages.

3. A significant percentage of applicants accepted with a sub 30 MCAT are either URM or disadvantaged.

4. If you look at the data, there were less than 1/4 as many applicants applying with a 3.3/35 than a 4.0/28. A smaller pool of applicants means a smaller number applicants with above average ECs to make up for poor stats.

Ultimately, if you're an average ORM applicant with a 4.0/28 not living in one of the above states, you're chances are much less than 65%.

 

[Schenker]

1. A select few low-ranking state schools with low MCAT averages are skewing the AAMC data. Places like WV, AR, MS, KS, NM, and a few others. Most applicants aren't residents of these states and don't have the luxury of applying to these programs. At private schools and schools w/ MCAT averages above 30 (i.e. the vast majority of med schools) the percentages referenced would be flipped.

Can you back this up with data? I'm not aware of any GPA vs. MCAT charts broken down by state or by school.

2. This also applies to historically black medical schools (Meharry/Howard/Morehouse) with low MCAT averages.

3. A significant percentage of applicants accepted with a sub 30 MCAT are either URM or disadvantaged.

Even among only Asian applicants, the acceptance rate for 4.0/28 (60.9%) is higher than for 3.3/35 (42.6%), so acceptance rates for URMs and HBCs can't be skewing the data.

Ultimately, if you're an average ORM applicant with a 4.0/28 not living in one of the above states, you're chances are much less than 65%.

I wouldn't say 60.9% is much less than 65%; granted, these charts aren't broken down by state.

4. If you look at the data, there were less than 1/4 as many applicants applying with a 3.3/35 than a 4.0/28. A smaller pool of applicants means a smaller number applicants with above average ECs to make up for poor stats.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying the fact that the 3.3/35 pool is smaller than the 4.0/28 pool implies that the 3.3/35 pool is more self-selective? I think the 3.3/35 pool is smaller because 3.3/35 applicants are less common than 4.0/28 applicants, but, if what you're saying is true, it would actually still support that 4.0/28 is more conducive to an acceptance than 3.3/35.


Again, I'm not saying that high-GPA/low-MCAT applicants are categorically more likely to gain acceptance than low-GPA/high-MCAT applicants.

 

[alpinism]

Can you back this up with data? I'm not aware of any GPA vs. MCAT charts broken down by state or by school.

Look at the MSAR. Most schools have an average MCAT around 32 now. A 28 is near the 10th percentile at most places except HBCs and low tier state schools.

A 4.0/28 will get you screened out at many schools unless URM or disadvantaged. A 3.3/35 will pass almost every screen except for top 5 schools.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying the fact that the 3.3/35 pool is smaller than the 4.0/28 pool implies that the 3.3/35 pool is more self-selective? I think the 3.3/35 pool is smaller because 3.3/35 applicants are less common than 4.0/28 applicants, but, if what you're saying is true, it would actually still support that 4.0/28 is more conducive to an acceptance than 3.3/35.

Basically its a form of self selection. Many potential applicants with below average GPAs and great ECs don't take the MCAT or apply because of advice from advisors. On the flip side, tons of people with great GPAs and great ECs will either apply before getting their MCAT score back or continue to apply even after getting a low score due to the time and money already invested.

If more people with low GPA/high MCAT and great ECs applied it would increase the overall percentage accepted.

 

[lazyindy]

Look at the MSAR. Most schools have an average MCAT around 32 now. A 28 is near the 10th percentile at most places except HBCs and low tier state schools.

A 4.0/28 will get you screened out at many schools unless URM or disadvantaged. A 3.3/35 will pass almost every screen except for top 5 schools.



Basically its a form of self selection. Many potential applicants with below average GPAs and great ECs don't take the MCAT or apply because of advice from advisors. On the flip side, tons of people with great GPAs and great ECs will either apply before getting their MCAT score back or continue to apply even after getting a low score due to the time and money already invested.

If more people with low GPA/high MCAT and great ECs applied it would increase the overall percentage accepted.

This gives me hope and great motivation to give it my all on the mcat. Just wanted to know how did you conclude a 3.3/35 won't pass the screen for top 5 schools? How does one know how each school screens?

 

[Schenker]

Look at the MSAR. Most schools have an average MCAT around 32 now. A 28 is near the 10th percentile at most places except HBCs and low tier state schools.

Looking at the MSAR, many of the schools with lower MCAT 10th percentiles also have correspondingly lower GPA 10th percentiles. But even so, numbers like these are inconclusive on the low-GPA/high-MCAT vs. high-GPA/low-MCAT debate since the MSAR doesn't present MCAT and GPA statistics in conjunction.

Basically its a form of self selection. Many potential applicants with below average GPAs and great ECs don't take the MCAT or apply because of advice from advisors. On the flip side, tons of people with great GPAs and great ECs will either apply before getting their MCAT score back or continue to apply even after getting a low score due to the time and money already invested.

If I'm interpreting correctly, you're speculating that 4.0/28 applicants have better ECs than 3.3/35 applicants and that this disparity in ECs is responsible for the higher acceptance rate of 4.0/28 applicants? I don't think there's any data out there on ECs vs GPA, and it's just as easy to make reasonable assumptions to support the claim that 3.3/35 applicants have better ECs.

If more people with low GPA/high MCAT and great ECs applied it would increase the overall percentage accepted.

And you're also speculating that a significant number of low-GPA/high-MCAT applicants didn't apply, even though they had better ECs (Their ECs would have to be better if their inclusion in the AAMC charts would increase the corresponding GPA/MCAT acceptance rate.) than their low-GPA/high-MCAT peers who did apply? It doesn't make sense that out of all low-GPA/high-MCAT potential applicants only the ones with lesser ECs decided to apply.


I don't mean to come off as argumentative. There are a lot of opinions out there from pre-meds, medical students, physicians, and pre-med advisers that conflict, so I'm suspicious of claims without supporting data. On the other hand, it's almost impossible not to speculate on the otherwise obscure application process in order to stay sane!

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Sure it could be a bad test day, computers have a problem (this one really REALLY sucks), sick, unprepared w/e. But do adcoms care about why an applicant got a low score? Not really. If the applicant retakes and gets a higher score the second time around, then maybe. Low-tier state schools may give these applicants a slack though, but mid-tier/top-tier schools really don't care.

Again, this is strictly MD discussion. I really don't know how DO schools operate.

I think DO schools are more MCAT 'obsessed' than MD... If you go thru the DO forum or school specific threads, it will be hard to find an applicant with 3.1-3.2 c/sGPA and 28 MCAT (DO average 3.5 GPA and 27 MCAT) who does not have 2+ acceptances. On the other hand, you will find multiple applicants in the MD forum with 3.4 c/sGPA and 33 (MD average 3.66 GPA and 31.5 MCAT) who did not get any love from MD... The average stats in my post might not be 100% accurate, but they are close nonetheless.

 

[orangeman25]

Doesn't anyone believe that a 4.0 GPA is more impressive than a 35 MCAT though? I know there are external factors that come into play for the GPA but a 4.0 regardless is I feel more impressive. Also, you could technically study for like 2 years for the MCAT - making a 35 very possible

 

[alpinism]

Looking at the MSAR, many of the schools with lower MCAT 10th percentiles also have correspondingly lower GPA 10th percentiles. But even so, numbers like these are inconclusive on the low-GPA/high-MCAT vs. high-GPA/low-MCAT debate since the MSAR doesn't present MCAT and GPA statistics in conjunction.

If I'm interpreting correctly, you're speculating that 4.0/28 applicants have better ECs than 3.3/35 applicants and that this disparity in ECs is responsible for the higher acceptance rate of 4.0/28 applicants? I don't think there's any data out there on ECs vs GPA, and it's just as easy to make reasonable assumptions to support the claim that 3.3/35 applicants have better ECs.

And you're also speculating that a significant number of low-GPA/high-MCAT applicants didn't apply, even though they had better ECs (Their ECs would have to be better if their inclusion in the AAMC charts would increase the corresponding GPA/MCAT acceptance rate.) than their low-GPA/high-MCAT peers who did apply? It doesn't make sense that out of all low-GPA/high-MCAT potential applicants only the ones with lesser ECs decided to apply.


I don't mean to come off as argumentative. There are a lot of opinions out there from pre-meds, medical students, physicians, and pre-med advisers that conflict, so I'm suspicious of claims without supporting data. On the other hand, it's almost impossible not to speculate on the otherwise obscure application process in order to stay sane!

Heh its cool, SDN would be boring without a few arguments here and there.

Its true that the GPA 10th percentiles are also lower but they are also far above a 3.o which is what nearly every US MD school uses to screen. With a 4.0/28, a significant number of MD schools (25% or even 33% as a rough estimate) are off the table because of interview screening (they'll still take your application and money). With a 3.3/35, almost all MD schools are on the table.

Looking at overall acceptance percentages comparing GPA/MCAT combos at face value doesn't tell you anything much because it doesn't take into account screening thresholds (which focus on MCAT rather than GPA as explained above), GPA averages from schools (adcoms use algorithms to standardize GPAs), Community college GPAs (expected to be higher), or school prestige (a 3.3 from MIT/Princeton/Berkeley is not the same as a 3.3 from a SUNY).

If you want real data take a look at the differences between applicants and matriculants by state:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/#.Urrw1KWTNFI

For 2012:

In NY the average applicant had a 29/3.52, while the average matriculant had a 32.2/3.66. The GPA went up by 1.4 (0.14 x 10) while the MCAT went up by 3.2 (over 2x as much)

state / applicants / matriculants / increase in MCAT vs. increase in GPA

California: 29.9/3.5 vs. 32.5/3.65 (2.6 vs. 1.5)
Florida: 27.1/3.52 vs. 30.3/3.68 (3.2 vs. 1.6)
Texas: 27.2/3.51 vs. 31.0/3.7 (3.8 vs. 1.9)
Penn: 28.8/3.56 vs. 31.7/3.68 (2.9 vs. 1.2)
Virginia 28/3.5 vs. 31.6/3.65 (3.6 vs. 1.5)
Maine: 28.5/3.56 vs. 32.7/3.69 (4.2 vs. 1.3) - No state school except for Tufts Maine track

It makes sense that the MCAT carries more weight than GPA because GPAs are non standardized and highly variable while the MCAT is a standardized assessment tool designed to compare applicants.

The ECs and GPA/MCAT thing is more a personal observation not based on data or percentages.

 

[alpinism]

Doesn't anyone believe that a 4.0 GPA is more impressive than a 35 MCAT though? I know there are external factors that come into play for the GPA but a 4.0 regardless is I feel more impressive. Also, you could technically study for like 2 years for the MCAT - making a 35 very possible

That's the point. A 4.0 GPA, while impressive, means vastly different things at different schools.

At Harvard or Brown (where 2/3 of all grades are As) is a 4.0 really anything special?

Contrary to popular belief, you can't just study your way to a 35 (96th percentile / 4% of test takers).

 

[487806]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that data by AAMC is only for US allopathic schools.

You are correct.

Ok thanks. Always had that little doubt but glad I could ignore it from now on. @alpinism is pretty much way more articulate than me in this matter so my hats off to him

I think DO schools are more MCAT 'obsessed' than MD... If you go thru the DO forum or school specific threads, it will be hard to find an applicant with 3.1-3.2 c/sGPA and 28 MCAT (DO average 3.5 GPA and 27 MCAT) who does not have 2+ acceptances. On the other hand, you will find multiple applicants in the MD forum with 3.4 c/sGPA and 33 (MD average 3.66 GPA and 31.5 MCAT) who did not get any love from MD... The average stats in my post might not be 100% accurate, but they are close nonetheless.

Interesting. This just adds onto the argument that MCAT is supreme hands down. There's no point in arguing with stats, because GPA is just so very subjective. GPA works in say, top 100 USNWR schools, but we have so many colleges with rampant grade inflation, +/- system, this "college education is a right" mentality etc. that it greatly reduces the value of GPA and a bachelor's degree overall. It's a shame to our hard work, so the MCAT serves as the standardized representation for the most part.

 

[BurberryDoc]

The data most likely include the DO schools, which value GPA way more than MCAT. MD schools value MCAT more than GPA.

Sorry dude, the data shown is from the AAMC. Doesn't include information from DO schools, because DO applications are not processed through AMCAS, and thus not tracked by the AAMC.

The arguments in this thread use very circular logic.

I'm going to go ahead and throw my hat into the ring, and say that the MCAT & GPA don't matter more than the other - it's really the entire package of your application, as painfully and excruciatingly annoying that is to hear. You cannot predict your odds based on #'s, because (a) statistics mean nothing for an individual, and (b) I was accepted in october to two MD schools (both OOS) with a 3.3 GPA and a 30 MCAT. Further, I made it farther through the admissions process at a top 25 school than people who had 4.0 and 38+ MCAT. Do I regard myself an anecdotal outlier? Absolutely not - I'm as cookie cutter as they come. (Disclaimer: I am non-URM)

Oh, yeah - it's christmas. Go enjoy the holiday with your families. If you don't observe the holiday, go enjoy some chinese food and a movie.

Mery Christmas. Here is a picture of a duck.

 

[487806]

Sorry dude, the data shown is from the AAMC. Doesn't include information from DO schools, because DO applications are not processed through AMCAS, and thus not tracked by the AAMC.

Yeah I realized. An embarrassing doubt but glad to get that clarified. And yes, having a solid, well rounded app matters, so a high GPA/high MCAT is ideal. However, there's always some variants between high GPA/low MCAT and low GPA/high MCAT, in which case the latter wins hands down for reasons I stated before.

 

[aspiring20]

Sorry dude, the data shown is from the AAMC. Doesn't include information from DO schools, because DO applications are not processed through AMCAS, and thus not tracked by the AAMC.

The arguments in this thread use very circular logic.

I'm going to go ahead and throw my hat into the ring, and say that the MCAT & GPA don't matter more than the other - it's really the entire package of your application, as painfully and excruciatingly annoying that is to hear. You cannot predict your odds based on #'s, because (a) statistics mean nothing for an individual, and (b) I was accepted in october to two MD schools (both OOS) with a 3.3 GPA and a 30 MCAT. Further, I made it farther through the admissions process at a top 25 school than people who had 4.0 and 38+ MCAT. Do I regard myself an anecdotal outlier? Absolutely not - I'm as cookie cutter as they come. (Disclaimer: I am non-URM)

Oh, yeah - it's christmas. Go enjoy the holiday with your families. If you don't observe the holiday, go enjoy some chinese food and a movie.

Mery Christmas. Here is a picture of a duck.

congrats on your acceptances! you say that you are a cookie cutter applicant? do you have any unique qualities such as ECs, etc? if you had such success with a 3.3 and a 30, maybe i can be a bit more ambitious with a 3.6/3.3 and 35.

i would greatly appreciate some more insight to your application.

 

[BurberryDoc]

If people want to ask specific questions, feel free to PM me

 

[aspiring20]

If people want to ask specific questions, feel free to PM me

i'll PM you a little bit later, thanks!

 

[aspiring20]

Agent B, you seem to know a lot about the whole process...

 

[lobo.solo]

After you pass the cut off, which is different at each school, stats is just part of your application. So everything matters. I had to retake the mcat. This hurt me at some schools and it didn't seem to be a problem with others. Again, this shows the subjectivity in the process. Both, GPA and MCAT, matters to schools; one is about being able to show that you can work hard in order to maintain a "competitive" GPA. The MCAT is about critical thinking, and good skills on a standardized test. IMO, these showcase a different aspect of the applicant. There is a threshold that you must pass (academically speaking) in which you prove that you can successfully complete medical school and this will get you an acceptance. After this threshold is not about you being inept to become a doctor, is about schools wanting to be as selective as possible (stats wise) to remain prestigious, high ranked, etc.

See attached, it says about How do admissions officers use MCAT® scores and other application data in the holistic review of applicants’ qualifications?

 

[487806]

Agent B, you seem to know a lot about the whole process...

Not really. I'm terrible in assessing state MD schools and DO schools. I just look at stories of strong applicants and recycle them.

 

[caxoo]

So are yall saying that, for example, my GPA of 3.4 (going to pull to 3.5) and MCAT of 36 is actually not that bad/I have a decent chance? Because looking at MSAR and realizing you're below every single median GPA and sometimes below the lower 10% of some schools you're looking at is slightly discouraging to say the least

Also, what if my sGPA is even lower, around 3.3 right now? Aiming to pull it up beyond a 3.4 as well

 

[487806]

So are yall saying that, for example, my GPA of 3.4 (going to pull to 3.5) and MCAT of 36 is actually not that bad/I have a decent chance? Because looking at MSAR and realizing you're below every single median GPA and sometimes below the lower 10% of some schools you're looking at is slightly discouraging to say the least

Also, what if my sGPA is even lower, around 3.3 right now? Aiming to pull it up beyond a 3.4 as well

Yes you'd have a chance.

 

[aspiring20]

So are yall saying that, for example, my GPA of 3.4 (going to pull to 3.5) and MCAT of 36 is actually not that bad/I have a decent chance? Because looking at MSAR and realizing you're below every single median GPA and sometimes below the lower 10% of some schools you're looking at is slightly discouraging to say the least

Also, what if my sGPA is even lower, around 3.3 right now? Aiming to pull it up beyond a 3.4 as well

i already took my MCAT, but do you mind telling me how long it took you to study?

i followed an unorthodox method and managed a 35.

 

[caxoo]

i already took my MCAT, but do you mind telling me how long it took you to study?

i followed an unorthodox method and managed a 35.

The entire summer, around 3 months, for average of perhaps 3-5 hours a day

To be honest for the effort and time I put in I think 36 was on the low end of what I could've got...I wasn't disappointed at all since it was around what I was aiming for, I just made some really silly choices. Didn't do any Verbal like the month before the test, and a few parts of the sciences I didn't look at because "oh you easily know that don't waste your time" and I ended up taking 5 minutes staring at a question because I completely blanked on what a constitutional isomer was (hint: it's clearly not different atomic rotation, which you would THINK one would immediately realize belongs under stereoisomerism but apparently I ****ing didn't)