Chairman LOR

[jubb]

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Do you need a letter of recommendation from the Chairman to apply in General Surgery?

Despite all my attempts to work with our chairman of surgery(even trying to come on when I have vacation time) I have been unable to work with him. Our program director says that if you haven't worked with him or received honors in surgery and medicine you'll get a saying that you are an average student.

I'm going to get the letter, but should I use it in my applying, or would I be better off with more junior people that I've actually worked with?

Thanks,

Justin

 

[Winged Scapula]

Some places might specifically request a letter from the department Chair, but many, if not most, do not.

I would tend to favor a good or great letter from someone who actually knows you than a mediocre one from the Chair.

 

[BullsOnParade]

Some places might specifically request a letter from the department Chair, but many, if not most, do not.

I would tend to favor a good or great letter from someone who actually knows you than a mediocre one from the Chair.

How much time should you spend before asking the Chair for a LOR?

Where I'm at, the Chair is a busy guy and spends most of the time doing administration. You're lucky if you get to spend a day or two over the span of a month with him. Is this the typical routine?

 

[Winged Scapula]

How much time should you spend before asking the Chair for a LOR?

Where I'm at, the Chair is a busy guy and spends most of the time doing administration. You're lucky if you get to spend a day or two over the span of a month with him. Is this the typical routine?

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule...you can spend all month with someone and not get a good feel for them or a few days and really seem to know them.

But you are right...in most places the department chair has a lot of administrative duties and isn't in the OR very often. As a matter of fact, I snicker when you get some high society type who wants only the Chair to operate on them because conventional wisdom has it that the Chairs are a bit rusty in their skills (if they ever had them). 😉

At any rate, only you and your Chair can decide whether or not the time spent with them is enough. Your Chair may simply write their LOR with input from residents (this is fairly common for most faculty) and other faculty so it doesn't really matter how much time you spend. OTOH, you can always schedule an appointment with him to talk about your interests, your application, get some advice about programs to apply to etc.

 

[redbeans]

On a related note... is it better to ask for a chairman LOR directly after working with him for a month (albeit a little early in the game so my CV is kind of sketch) vs. waiting a few months to have more things to discuss with him (but what if he forgets me?)

 

[purplefish]

On a related note... is it better to ask for a chairman LOR directly after working with him for a month (albeit a little early in the game so my CV is kind of sketch) vs. waiting a few months to have more things to discuss with him (but what if he forgets me?)

YES ask your chairman now. Its so much better to have a letter that needs revision, than it is to go back after weeks and months only to find that he is even more busy and has other letters to write.

 

[Blade28]

Definitely ask right after the rotation's done (or even towards the end). You want his/her impressions of you to be fresh in his/her mind.

 

[kirurg]

I'm an MS4 who couldn't schedule a rotation with the chairman at my home program. Since I heard that many programs want a chairman's letter, I asked for one anyway... but it turned out that none of the programs that I applied to actually required one (all East Coast programs). From what I hear he wrote a glowing letter (same for the other students from my class)-- He is a really nice guy, but all chairs want their students to match well. I am part of our school's student interest group and he knows me through that (although we only really interact with him 1-2x/year).

 

[Blade28]

It's not that programs necessarily will require one - it's just that often your chairman is a big name in surgery, and a strong letter from him/her will be respected by program directors at the various institutions.

 

[goooooober]

Some places might specifically request a letter from the department Chair, but many, if not most, do not.

I would tend to favor a good or great letter from someone who actually knows you than a mediocre one from the Chair.

I absolutely agree. I applied without a single letter from my own school except dean's letter. A great letter will never get you into a residency, but it will eliminate one of the many possible ways they will try to rule you out as a candidate. Make sure they are absolutely nothing but great great great letters that worship you. I remember after one of my SubIs at a very well known name, I asked the PD for a LOR. He agreed and wrote a very positive letter. However, one sentence read something like this "during Mr. Xs month here at our program, everyone only said positive things about him except one nurse who thought he was arrogant." Can you believe that sh**. Fortunately, my school allowed access to all the letters before they were sent out. I contacted the PD and told him that my school had advised me against sending his letter to ERAS and I asked him if he knew why that would be. He actually admitted to writing that sentence in my letter. I told him I did not care what one nurse thought about me, but rather what he thought about me after working with me. He tried convincing me that this would be a positive thing as almost everyone's letters portray them as being perfect and PDs are tired of reading such letters. My counter arguement was, this would make me stand out in a negative way compared to everyone else and that he would either have to change his letter, or I was not going to use it. He finally changed that sentence to say that "the response of faculty and staff to Mr. X was overwhelmingly positive." My point is that, even though the guy was a big name, in a big position, from a big program, that one sentence would have caused me to have to scramble for a spot, and maybe end up in puerto rico (AY CHINGON!)

 

[Winged Scapula]

goooober...

you've described something incredibly ballsy (contacting a letter writer and suggesting they change something which was less than glowing) that few would do.

However, as your experience shows, it is wise in many cases and can often have the desired outcome (as long as you remain polite and professional). If there is any hint of a negative letter, contacting the writer may be a way to get it changed.