Chances for a PhD to go MD?

[PoopHeadDegree]

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Hi all. I'm working on a PhD right now in TX and planning to finish next spring. Going to apply this cycle, and wanted your thoughts on my chances of getting in, and suggestions on where else to apply. I'm trying to send in my primary by mid-Aug.

- UG cGPA- 3.2, sGPA- 3.0
- Grad school GPA- 3.7
- Taking the MCAT this Friday, practices so far = 27, 28. Hoping for a 30-31.
- PhD in Microbiology/Immunology, 3.5 years in my current lab. 1 1st-author paper resubmitted (and looking hopeful), 1 2nd-author paper, 1 2nd-author review, 2 other contributing author papers.
- 2 international conferences, oral presentations at each
- 2 years UG research, 1 1st-author, but retracted.
- 60 hours shadowing and volunteering at med-school run outpatient clinic for those w/o insurance
-~10 hours shadowing inpatient gastroenterologist, with much more time lined up for next month

So I realize my undergrad GPA is abysmal, but I'm hoping my PhD experiences can help that. In my PS I wanted to emphasize how my research training would help me as a doctor in regards to translational medicine. I've had some experience in that area, ie using humanized SCID mice to work on human disease and processes that can't be replicated in normal mice, working closely with Bristol Myers to test their chemicals in our IBD mouse model, working on improving oral vaccine adjuvants.

After talking with some MD/PhDs here, and during a few Kaplan webinars, it seemed like in my situation, I needed the shadowing exp to show I know what I'm getting into, and I'm hoping I have that, in addition to the LOR from the GI doc I'm shadowing.

Anyway, so far I've decided to apply to:
- Univ of Washington (parents want me home)
- Oregon H&S (A little space from home is still nice)
- TX- UTMB, Baylor, UTSW, UTSA, Houston, Tech, A&M
- UAB
- Tufts

I've read on here before that some schools look upon research more heavily than others, notably TX and FL schools. Does anyone know which in particular, and any others I should be aware of?

 

[Temperature101]

Hi all. I'm working on a PhD right now in TX and planning to finish next spring. Going to apply this cycle, and wanted your thoughts on my chances of getting in, and suggestions on where else to apply. I'm trying to send in my primary by mid-Aug.

- UG cGPA- 3.2, sGPA- 3.0
- Grad school GPA- 3.7
- Taking the MCAT this Friday, practices so far = 27, 28. Hoping for a 30-31.
- PhD in Microbiology/Immunology, 3.5 years in my current lab. 1 1st-author paper resubmitted (and looking hopeful), 1 2nd-author paper, 1 2nd-author review, 2 other contributing author papers.
- 2 international conferences, oral presentations at each
- 2 years UG research, 1 1st-author, but retracted.
- 60 hours shadowing and volunteering at med-school run outpatient clinic for those w/o insurance
-~10 hours shadowing inpatient gastroenterologist, with much more time lined up for next month

So I realize my undergrad GPA is abysmal, but I'm hoping my PhD experiences can help that. In my PS I wanted to emphasize how my research training would help me as a doctor in regards to translational medicine. I've had some experience in that area, ie using humanized SCID mice to work on human disease and processes that can't be replicated in normal mice, working closely with Bristol Myers to test their chemicals in our IBD mouse model, working on improving oral vaccine adjuvants.

After talking with some MD/PhDs here, and during a few Kaplan webinars, it seemed like in my situation, I needed the shadowing exp to show I know what I'm getting into, and I'm hoping I have that, in addition to the LOR from the GI doc I'm shadowing.

Anyway, so far I've decided to apply to:
- Univ of Washington (parents want me home)
- Oregon H&S (A little space from home is still nice)
- TX- UTMB, Baylor, UTSW, UTSA, Houston, Tech, A&M
- UAB
- Tufts

I've read on here before that some schools look upon research more heavily than others, notably TX and FL schools. Does anyone know which in particular, and any others I should be aware of?

Your best shot is DO...You will need a killer mcat (35+) to have a shot at MD.

 

[Ironmandoc]

Your bet shot is DO...You will a killer mcat (35+) to have a shot at MD.

Agreed. Your gpa will keep you out of most MD programs without a high MCAT of 33+. How are your ECs? Stay away from Wash schools unless you're a resident they are OOS unfriendly. You need to have applies a few weeks ago and focus on DO schools.

 

[notbobtrustme]

The trick is getting your app in front of human eyes.

You definitely need a higher MCAT. Scientists should destroy the MCAT (eg 35+). Without a high MCAT, I don't think you have a realistic shot at most MD schools.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi all. I'm working on a PhD right now in TX and planning to finish next spring. Going to apply this cycle, and wanted your thoughts on my chances of getting in, and suggestions on where else to apply. I'm trying to send in my primary by mid-Aug.

- UG cGPA- 3.2, sGPA- 3.0
- Grad school GPA- 3.7
- Taking the MCAT this Friday, practices so far = 27, 28. Hoping for a 30-31.
- PhD in Microbiology/Immunology, 3.5 years in my current lab. 1 1st-author paper resubmitted (and looking hopeful), 1 2nd-author paper, 1 2nd-author review, 2 other contributing author papers.
- 2 international conferences, oral presentations at each
- 2 years UG research, 1 1st-author, but retracted.
- 60 hours shadowing and volunteering at med-school run outpatient clinic for those w/o insurance
-~10 hours shadowing inpatient gastroenterologist, with much more time lined up for next month

So I realize my undergrad GPA is abysmal, but I'm hoping my PhD experiences can help that. In my PS I wanted to emphasize how my research training would help me as a doctor in regards to translational medicine. I've had some experience in that area, ie using humanized SCID mice to work on human disease and processes that can't be replicated in normal mice, working closely with Bristol Myers to test their chemicals in our IBD mouse model, working on improving oral vaccine adjuvants.

After talking with some MD/PhDs here, and during a few Kaplan webinars, it seemed like in my situation, I needed the shadowing exp to show I know what I'm getting into, and I'm hoping I have that, in addition to the LOR from the GI doc I'm shadowing.

Anyway, so far I've decided to apply to:
- Univ of Washington (parents want me home)
- Oregon H&S (A little space from home is still nice)
- TX- UTMB, Baylor, UTSW, UTSA, Houston, Tech, A&M
- UAB
- Tufts

I've read on here before that some schools look upon research more heavily than others, notably TX and FL schools. Does anyone know which in particular, and any others I should be aware of?

I agree with the cautionary notes already expressed. Consider reframing your planned timeline to applying next year:

1) Extra time studying for the MCAT will make the higher score you need more likely.

2) Your clinical experience is woefully short of the average 150 hours over 1.5 years that applicants list. And typical listed shadowing is ~50 hours, including a primary care doc (UW requires 40 hours). Adcomms like to see evidence that you've carefully thought through and tested medicine as a career with various experiences.

3) As a generalization, Texas schools particularly and UW schools also, seem to like to see nonmedical community service to the poor.

4) Applying later in the cycle doesn't generally bode well for those with sub par applications. Early birds get far better consideration.

5) Are your grad advisor/PI on board with your plans? Many programs require a letter from your current program, partly to ensure that you are sure to finish the degree on time and mostly as a LOR.

6) Hopefully you have some teaching and leadership experiences during the PhD years, as these strengthen your application. If not, one or both could be incorporated into your community service. You don't want to come across as a one-trick pony who lived in a lab without human contact for the last many years.

 

[eHombre]

At least you have TX in-state working for you, though without the volunteering it may be of limited value. I am myself a PhD-to-MD applicant from last cycle who is starting this fall, and I agree with most of the above advice.

- As a PhD applicant, your MCAT *cannot* be merely average, particularly with your uGPA. With your science background, you should really be able to rock it (34+), as long as you give yourself enough time to study. Compared to grad school, it's not a particularly difficult test, but you must respect it. You don't want to leave the impression that you're switching because of lack of success in graduate school.

- Clinical volunteering and shadowing experience is where most applicants like us fall short (grad school is an all-encompassing lifestyle, I know), and I definitely shot myself in the foot with some schools by not having enough of it.

- I made up for the previous point, in part, by having an incredibly supportive advisor and outstanding reference letters, including two from physicians with whom I had collaborated/shadowed and who knew me well.

- Nevertheless, given your application, I would stay away from schools that focus on their service mission, and go for schools that focus more on their research mission, while staying within your stats range.

- Lastly, since in your case the MCAT makes a huge difference on whether your application is viable or not, your application timing is a bit late. With a sub-30 score, you'd definitely be better off re-applying. However, you won't hear back about the score until late August, at which point it'd be late to submit your AMCAS app with mediocre stats.

- Your best bet, if you're committed to applying this cycle, is to submit your primary ASAP (like, really, ASAP, it takes 4-6 weeks to verify around this time of year) with only one school on the school list. Wait for your app to be verified by AMCAS and for your MCAT score to come in. If you're happy with the score, you can add the rest of the schools and be insta-complete in late August / early September, which is late but not terribly late. If you decide to retake and pass on this cycle, you'll save money on application fees and you'd be applying as a reapplicant to only one school.

Good luck on Friday!

 

[alamo4]

Good luck!

I agree with some of the above posts. You need to excel in at least one area, and MCAT is your best shot given the time frame.

I had crappy grades, but a few high impact pubs coming out of my PhD, and a very good MCAT. If anyone asked about grades, they basically said, oh you must have been in the lab all the time, and I just nodded.

It has to be a coherent story of learning and progression, like you did poorly in undergrad and then discovered your love of science and want to apply that translationally now and you are rocking. They want a story of someone overcoming adversities and excelling at whatever it is they are doing, so hopefully you can cast the story of your life in that way. It's okay to change your goals, but you don't want it to look like you're just doing a series of things half-heatedly. Big successeses and failures are better, as long as the failures are learning experiences.

I found research heavy schools interviewed me, while service oriented schools even in my home state did not. Also, bigger schools did not interview me, so I don't know if they filtered for grades or what.

Again, good luck!

 

[alamo4]

But stay positive and optimistic. If you apply this cycle or next, you have a good chance of getting into an MD or DO program if you apply broadly. Also, you will probably be at an advantage when applying to residency if you want to go to a strongly academic program.

It's all about being positive and energetic so minor setbacks don't hold you back. I think that's one of the main lessons.

 

[PoopHeadDegree]

Thanks for your input everyone. First, I forgot to mention that I am a WA resident, hence looking to go back to UW.
I hadn't thought about the point that, coming from a strong science background, it would be expected that I knockout the science parts of the MCAT. Frankly I struggled with physics and ochem (hence the sGPA), and trying to hammer it into my brain on short notice.
My PI and committee are definitely on-board, they've assured me that I don't need a whole lot more work to finish by spring, and definitely by summer.

Can you guys mention what research-heavy schools you were looking into? I'll look into individual schools after my MCAT this week, but it'll be nice to have a list to start from.

One more thing, the chair of my dept mentioned that Tulane was starting an MD program particularly for people with PhDs looking to focus on translation, has anyone heard of it? I haven't been able to find anything on the Tulane SOM site.

 

[Chrome19]

Scientists should destroy the MCAT although not necessarily. The MCAT is an insidious test, especially the verbal. I know a PhD who approached the test casually and scored a 28. Then he took 4 weeks off for focused prep and scored a 36 (10V, 12PS, 14 BS).

I applied in my last year of grad school with a 33 (9V, 12's in the sciences). For me the verbal was the limiting factor as I expected, although I was expecting higher scores on the sciences (13-15), especially the BS, but 12's are still ok. I studied for under 3 weeks as well while being in lab full time, except for the last 5 days before my test. I applied extremely late (October) as an international student and still got some great interviews including an ivy. I'm at a service-oriented school now. I also applied without documented clinical experience. I'm still very interested in research.

I agree OP should aim for a 32+.although scoring 28 need not be a barrier. There's a story of a PhD here who applied successfully with a 29 and is at an ivy league now. It's in one of the PhD to MD threads.